Save the Skymaster

Re: Save the Skymaster

Postby Dan O'Hagan on Sun 16 Apr 2017, 10:46 am

If UKHAT succeeds in buying, restoring and flying anything, I will be amazed. I've not seen one scintilla of evidence which suggests credibility.
Dan O'Hagan

Re: Save the Skymaster

Postby Thumper on Sun 16 Apr 2017, 12:10 pm

All these rtf projects remind me of 1 thing, those magazines you buy such as "build the Titanic". At first you are really excited by it and it seems plausible and affordable at 99p for the first issue. Then the second issue is £1.99 and in 3 months time the issues are £9.99 each. You invest hundreds of pounds into this project and at the 6 month (halfway marker) the company vanishes into thin air. You lose all your 'invested' money and have a load of junk to show for it.

If I am putting my hard earned into a return to flight project I want a professional organisation, people who listen and engage with their supporters and donaters and I want a team of people on hand for whatever they are needed for, technicians, ground grew, pilots etc I want all that in place for when they're needed. I want a solid and confident projection over what is needed, what will happen, when, where, how much and what happens next. I want to know how my money is being spent, breakdowns and percentages of where it's going. Honesty, that's the biggest one. I currently donate to 1 company/project and that is Fly Navy/Sea Vixen. I know that 'civil' trusts will certainly have a harder time than those such as Fly Navy but that doesn't mean they have to be any less professional or organised about it!

When I read statements such as "commercial in confidence" it just reminds me of airshow participation threads with comments such as, "I know what's coming, but I can't tell you", which usually turns out to be a load of balls anyway!
User avatar
Thumper
UKAR Supporter

Re: Save the Skymaster

Postby UKHAT_OFFICIAL on Sun 16 Apr 2017, 12:25 pm

[/quote]

Nigel, what I think is ludicrous is that you run a campaign asking for £80,000 in donations but genuine questions are answered with the reply 'commercial in confidence'.... I also think it's ludicrous that you still refer to yourself as a trust when you know full well that you aren't a trust (unless you can now confirm that you have been granted trust status?)...

Are you able to give us the names and backgrounds of the people behind this project? People aren't going to donate until they know this sort of information![/quote]

I certainly wouldn't expect anyone to donate to a cause that wasn't both clear in it's aims and transparent with regard to its set up. The information you are requesting will be made public knowledge once we have finalised elements of our infrastructure. Until we have made a formal announcement I would be sorely misguided if I were to expect any donations, that would be ludicrous. A lot of work is continuing behind the scenes and I will make an announcement in due course.

Nigel Powton
UKHAT
UK Heritage Aviation Trust
For enquiries, please email enquiries@ukhat.org
UKHAT_OFFICIAL

Re: Save the Skymaster

Postby Russ on Sun 16 Apr 2017, 1:57 pm

Maybe it's just me and/or now looking in from the other side these days, but these endless fundraising appeals are relentless and quite boring too. It feels like the hobby is being swamped with all sorts of restoration bids. Sure, some are extremely worthy, like Just Jane and the Shack at Coventry and nobody is forcing anyone to donate.

Each to their own of course, but is it just me?
User avatar
Russ

Re: Save the Skymaster

Postby john001 on Sun 16 Apr 2017, 2:53 pm

Well I would love an overall body/trust that attracted sponsorship/fundraising efforts and expertise that could be shared around agreed projects. Some airworthy, some not, some longer term some shorter but with a close look at the importance each project to to Uk aviation heritage. It will never happen. There's also no reason why people should not pursue there own 'pet' projects. Better someone attempt it than let it rot without trying some of them may come off - good luck to them all, no one is forcing anyone to donate.
john001

Re: Save the Skymaster

Postby Dan O'Hagan on Sun 16 Apr 2017, 6:28 pm

Asking for money to buy something just makes an outfit look rank amateur. What happens to the money if the target isn't raised? Who actually owns the aeroplane? Where does the money being raised actually go?

And, in UKHAT's case, where's the due diligence? Until recently we've had two Vampires on the circuit, the VPG's WZ507 and the (Air Atlantique?) camoflaged example. Neither was ever especially busy with bookings. Where's the proof that there's a market for it? Classic jets are, in the eyes of the media, toxic since Shoreham. Do people care enough about a Vampire, when VTTS had to mothball a far more impressive beast WK163 because the donations were barely a trickle.

Until UKHAT own an aeroplane, and are a bona-fide charity or trust, they will be viewed as Mickey Mouse at best, shysters and chancers at worst.
Dan O'Hagan

Re: Save the Skymaster

Postby CJS on Sun 16 Apr 2017, 6:58 pm

Interesting points raised by many on here - some of which get answers and some of which are clearly dodged around. One thing I'd be very interested to know - what, as Dan asks, exactly would happen to my money if I donated but no aircraft was purchased and the whole thing goes belly up? Is it the same for any donation to anything charitable?

Genuine question, I'm not stirring.
"Forewarned is forearmed"
How do you know I didn't?
User avatar
CJS

Re: Save the Skymaster

Postby Vampire 1973 on Sun 16 Apr 2017, 7:09 pm

CJS wrote:Interesting points raised by many on here - some of which get answers and some of which are clearly dodged around. One thing I'd be very interested to know - what, as Dan asks, exactly would happen to my money if I donated but no aircraft was purchased and the whole thing goes belly up? Is it the same for any donation to anything charitable?

Genuine question, I'm not stirring.


Having worked with other organisations using the likes of crowd funding etc if target funds are not raised before the end of a campaign then they can/should be refunded to the donor. This is a automatic thing under the crowd funding rules.

Say they get organised and become a registered charity and are selling merchandise etc. Then like any other charity there is always a risk that things could go wrong? They should have an accountant to oversee their books, 4 signatures on the bank account.

I would say in their defence if your not happy with them don't donate. Why sit behind a key board and slag them off
Vampire 1973

Re: Save the Skymaster

Postby john001 on Sun 16 Apr 2017, 7:43 pm

Vampire 1973 wrote:Why sit behind a key board and slag them off

Well some people take positive action while the best some others can do is just that...
john001

Re: Save the Skymaster

Postby CJS on Sun 16 Apr 2017, 8:24 pm

I wasn't slagging anyone off, there are important unanswered questions around lots of these projects - I don't know what you expect us to do, not keep asking them or something?
"Forewarned is forearmed"
How do you know I didn't?
User avatar
CJS

Re: Save the Skymaster

Postby Rebecca_1984 on Sun 16 Apr 2017, 11:23 pm

Dan O'Hagan wrote:If UKHAT succeeds in buying, restoring and flying anything, I will be amazed. I've not seen one scintilla of evidence which suggests credibility.


Did you miss the big announcement this week, UKHAT now have an "official" twitter account, all well and good but if its as wishy washy as the Facebook account it might be best not to bother.
Rebecca_1984

Re: Save the Skymaster

Postby Pringles on Mon 15 May 2017, 8:58 pm

If life gives you melons then you're probably dyslexic
User avatar
Pringles

Re: Save the Skymaster

Postby tuska2 on Tue 16 May 2017, 5:41 am

Good Luck! and power to your pockets & elbows!
tuska2

Re: Save the Skymaster

Postby GertrudetheMerciless on Tue 16 May 2017, 10:29 am

You can take this two ways.

The good news it the Skymaster in now owned by a group that have ambitions to save it and avoid it going the same way as its sister did at North Weald.

On the flip side, there is the view that maybe the previous owner saw no value in it and now the airframe, its upkeep and, in the worst case, its disposal is now someone else's problem. The question I ask them is what do they intend to do with it? After all, another American 4 engined piston struggles to survive over here with bags more charisma, historic and sentimental value. Unless they can find a way for it to pay for itself I find it difficult to see.
GertrudetheMerciless

Re: Save the Skymaster

Postby Arthur Tee on Wed 17 May 2017, 6:22 am

How about a good 'cosmetic' restoration and 'weather-proof' - then display at the Cold War Musem Cosford? Other than a chunk of Berlin War - there is little else to illustrate the Airlift...

Arthur
Canon PowerShot SX40HS - It's not what you've got - it's what you do with it!
User avatar
Arthur Tee

Re: Save the Skymaster

Postby Georgeconna on Wed 17 May 2017, 8:47 am

Is this the same Skymaster that appear in Fairford all those years ago, If it is how come it did not travel back home and it languished in North Weald all this time?
Cheers

George

Zero shows for 2018 Giving in a Rest.
Georgeconna

Re: Save the Skymaster

Postby Pen Pusher on Wed 17 May 2017, 8:55 am

Arthur Tee wrote:then display at the Cold War Musem Cosford? Other than a chunk of Berlin War - there is little else to illustrate the Airlift...
Arthur


Apart from the Hastings, York, Dakota of course. :biggrin:

Brian
The Future Of Photography Is Mirrorless

DUXFORDfotoGALLERY
DfG on Facebook
User avatar
Pen Pusher

Re: Save the Skymaster

Postby spellow3010 on Wed 17 May 2017, 10:03 am

Georgeconna wrote:Is this the same Skymaster that appear in Fairford all those years ago, If it is how come it did not travel back home and it languished in North Weald all this time?


1998 RIAT? Didn't the C-54 come from South Africa for the Berlin Airlift demo? And wasn't it a female co-pilot, in kind of a father-daughter combo? It's been a long time now. RIAT 1998 I remembered for the Berlin Airlift attempt, the 'Typhoon and Reds flypast' and a Super Etendard! Oh, and the MATS Connie.
User avatar
spellow3010

Re: Save the Skymaster

Postby LN Strike Eagle on Wed 17 May 2017, 10:51 am

Georgeconna wrote:Is this the same Skymaster that appear in Fairford all those years ago, If it is how come it did not travel back home and it languished in North Weald all this time?

It's one of a pair that were ferried to North Weald around 2004 for the filming of a movie about the Berlin Air Lift that never happened. The second airframe was scrapped in late 2015 - only the cockpit section and a few panels/parts remain, they're on display at the RAF Burtonwood Heritage Centre.
"You really are an oafish philistine at times!"
User avatar
LN Strike Eagle
UKAR Staff

Re: Save the Skymaster

Postby Arthur Tee on Wed 17 May 2017, 11:07 am

Pen Pusher wrote:
Arthur Tee wrote:then display at the Cold War Musem Cosford? Other than a chunk of Berlin War - there is little else to illustrate the Airlift...
Arthur


Apart from the Hastings, York, Dakota of course. :biggrin:

Brian


Thanks Brian! :oops: :oops: :oops:

Arthur
Canon PowerShot SX40HS - It's not what you've got - it's what you do with it!
User avatar
Arthur Tee

Re: Save the Skymaster

Postby Stagger2 on Wed 17 May 2017, 2:53 pm

Meh!... Everybody knows it was only American aircraft that re-supplied Berlin, haven't you seen pictures of the US 'Candy Bomber' in action?
Now you've spoilt it all, by perpetuating factual information Brian! :wink: :whistle: :lol:
Stagger2

Re: Save the Skymaster

Postby Andover on Wed 17 May 2017, 6:05 pm

spellow3010 wrote:
Georgeconna wrote:Is this the same Skymaster that appear in Fairford all those years ago, If it is how come it did not travel back home and it languished in North Weald all this time?


1998 RIAT? Didn't the C-54 come from South Africa for the Berlin Airlift demo? And wasn't it a female co-pilot, in kind of a father-daughter combo? It's been a long time now. RIAT 1998 I remembered for the Berlin Airlift attempt, the 'Typhoon and Reds flypast' and a Super Etendard! Oh, and the MATS Connie.


This one also appeared at RIAT 98 as part of the Berlin airlift UK tour: https://www.flickr.com/photos/collingwo ... /lightbox/
I'm Supporting The People's Mosquito http://www.peoplesmosquito.org.uk
User avatar
Andover

Re: Save the Skymaster

Postby ColeTheDemolisher on Wed 17 May 2017, 9:58 pm

GertrudetheMerciless wrote:You can take this two ways.

The good news it the Skymaster in now owned by a group that have ambitions to save it and avoid it going the same way as its sister did at North Weald.

On the flip side, there is the view that maybe the previous owner saw no value in it and now the airframe, its upkeep and, in the worst case, its disposal is now someone else's problem. The question I ask them is what do they intend to do with it? After all, another American 4 engined piston struggles to survive over here with bags more charisma, historic and sentimental value. Unless they can find a way for it to pay for itself I find it difficult to see.


Well its worth a shot, better to die trying than not try at all.
Canon 750D & Canon 75-300

The Jacket kid

Sorry Goose, but its time to Buzz the tower...

Dudley, West Midlands
User avatar
ColeTheDemolisher

Re: Save the Skymaster

Postby GertrudetheMerciless on Thu 18 May 2017, 10:19 pm

ColeTheDemolisher wrote:
GertrudetheMerciless wrote:You can take this two ways.

The good news it the Skymaster in now owned by a group that have ambitions to save it and avoid it going the same way as its sister did at North Weald.

On the flip side, there is the view that maybe the previous owner saw no value in it and now the airframe, its upkeep and, in the worst case, its disposal is now someone else's problem. The question I ask them is what do they intend to do with it? After all, another American 4 engined piston struggles to survive over here with bags more charisma, historic and sentimental value. Unless they can find a way for it to pay for itself I find it difficult to see.


Well its worth a shot, better to die trying than not try at all.


I quite agree. :smile:
GertrudetheMerciless

Re: Save the Skymaster

Postby capercaillie on Fri 19 May 2017, 10:15 am

Andover wrote:
spellow3010 wrote:
Georgeconna wrote:Is this the same Skymaster that appear in Fairford all those years ago, If it is how come it did not travel back home and it languished in North Weald all this time?


1998 RIAT? Didn't the C-54 come from South Africa for the Berlin Airlift demo? And wasn't it a female co-pilot, in kind of a father-daughter combo? It's been a long time now. RIAT 1998 I remembered for the Berlin Airlift attempt, the 'Typhoon and Reds flypast' and a Super Etendard! Oh, and the MATS Connie.


This one also appeared at RIAT 98 as part of the Berlin airlift UK tour: https://www.flickr.com/photos/collingwo ... /lightbox/


I don't think it was at RIAT 1998. The MATS Connie was there, along with South African Airways C-54 and Atlantic Airlines DC-6, I can only ever remember seeing that C-54 at Nellis, although it eventually arrived over here in 2004 for the 50th anniversary before they left them to rot.
"The surrogate voice of st24"
User avatar
capercaillie

PreviousNext

Return to Aviation Waffle

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Canuck84, Yahoo [Bot] and 22 guests