Twitter sycophancy

Re: Twitter sycophancy

Postby Dan O'Hagan on Tue 27 Jun 2017, 12:31 pm

AnglianRed wrote:
LN Strike Eagle - for you not to have had a thank you for a photo you'd been asked for was rude - no question. I wouldn't begin to argue that. However it sounds as though this was a one-off, and generally speaking people have been grateful? Or was this perhaps the only occasion you've been asked - in which case I can see why it could have potentially tarnished your opinion of an entire group.



From what I understand, LNSE did an awful lot more than just provide a photograph. He provided a service, for free, that could have commanded a fee well into four (even five) figures. A word of thanks costs nothing.

And he's not the only one to have given professional services to the RAF for free and felt utterly used and exploited afterwards. But these are stories for another day.
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Re: Twitter sycophancy

Postby Harvo266 on Tue 27 Jun 2017, 12:58 pm

AnglianRed wrote: The various display teams can mostly be found on the ground at various airshows so you could actually approach them in real life, and get a face to face response?

Because a few of the keyboard warriors on this thread wouldn't have the nerve to say anything to their face - just have courage behind a computer screen..
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Re: Twitter sycophancy

Postby Alanko on Tue 27 Jun 2017, 1:06 pm

Harvo266 wrote:
AnglianRed wrote: The various display teams can mostly be found on the ground at various airshows so you could actually approach them in real life, and get a face to face response?

Because a few of the keyboard warriors on this thread wouldn't have the nerve to say anything to their face - just have courage behind a computer screen..


I don't know. If the warriors in this thread are anything like the big scary skinhead biker guy in the stepladders thread then the display teams better start quaking.

Actually if I could be a fly on the wall... Red Arrows tent at your local air display. Long queue of children in their wee red flying suits with their inflatable Hawks etc, and one burly bloke with a massive camera and a shopping bag full of Airfix kits looking to give Red 7 or whoever grief over the Reds' social media policy. Priceless. :lol:
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Re: Twitter sycophancy

Postby Spiny Norman on Tue 27 Jun 2017, 3:25 pm

Alanko wrote:
Actually if I could be a fly on the wall... Red Arrows tent at your local air display. Long queue of children in their wee red flying suits with their inflatable Hawks etc, and one burly bloke with a massive camera and a shopping bag full of Airfix kits looking to give Red 7 or whoever grief over the Reds' social media policy. Priceless. :lol:



'But why didn't you retweet - or even favourite - that one I took of you at Dawlish in 2007? Remember, the one with the spluff? Why?'
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Re: Twitter sycophancy

Postby Georgeconna on Tue 27 Jun 2017, 4:59 pm

Crikey, there should be an Angry thread on this forum :lol:
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Re: Twitter sycophancy

Postby Ian G on Tue 27 Jun 2017, 8:37 pm

smokey wrote:Can't say I really understand it just seems like snobbery from the UKAR elite. If you post images on here it's not much different to any other form of social media. There is certainly an element on here who like to blow smoke up each other in regard to each others images and then ignore other good images because there not in the in crowd.

Each to their own I say. :smile:


I read the quote below on the forum a few years back. It rang true to me so much that I copied it in to a text file, just for future reference, just because I was fed up with having to explain to people what was wrong with photography, at the time.

Frankly though, everyone who owns a camera these days thinks they're David Bailey. In general, the standard of photography here isn't what it was when UKAR was at its peak. Still some amazing talent on here, but harder to come across those threads now. Absolutely fine for people to join in if they're new to the forum/photography, but it helps in those circumstances if people are looking for advice. Sadly, it seems most just want to be told how amazing their images are, and in those cases it's just more polite to say nothing than put your neck on the line and offer any constructive criticism.

You often see whacking great copyright notices on even the most mediocre images, and every Tom, Dick and Harry can and will set up an "XYZ Photography" facebook/twitter page.


On lots of social media platforms, you can be shot down in flames if you dare criticise anybody's work but I think this statement holds very true, even a few years after it was first posted. There certainly aren't as many posts after an airshow on here any more but the quality of images has improved. Whether that's because people don't use the forum and post on facebook or twitter instead, I don't know. What I do know is that people bung these frankly crap images on facebook and never a bad word or 'constructive criticism' comment is made, for fear of being called a troll, keyboard warrior or being banned by 'admin'!

I can appreciate the joy and pleasure of a pilot or equivalent "celebrity" retweeting or replying to a tweet, that's fine. It's more them blowing smoke up the individual's wotsit to create the 'holier than though' impression. It's not snobbery or elitism in the slightest and I do so wish people would stop using that as an excuse. Simple solution, scroll on!
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Re: Twitter sycophancy

Postby Alanko on Tue 27 Jun 2017, 8:55 pm

Not sure what to make of the statement "Frankly though, everyone who owns a camera these days thinks they're David Bailey. In general, the standard of photography here isn't what it was when UKAR was at its peak", but I consider it something of a false dichotomy.

In my opinion Bailey is an artist whose medium happens to be photography. He has an uncanny ability to tease character out of a sitter, and reproduce this in greyscale. His sense of light and composition is immense; he can add great weight to a casual moment, and make light-hearted characters appear stately and imposing. The majority of photos on UKAR are great, but many of them aren't art as such. Many follow the airliners.net model of precisely and minutely documenting an aircraft. That is it. Screeds of photos taken at Duxford, RIAT or whatever, but the photos are shorn of any and all context, and instead present a stark image of an aircraft against a flat blue sky. A great visual document, but when does it become art?
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Re: Twitter sycophancy

Postby Dan O'Hagan on Tue 27 Jun 2017, 9:39 pm

Alanko wrote:Not sure what to make of the statement "Frankly though, everyone who owns a camera these days thinks they're David Bailey. In general, the standard of photography here isn't what it was when UKAR was at its peak", but I consider it something of a false dichotomy.

In my opinion Bailey is an artist whose medium happens to be photography. He has an uncanny ability to tease character out of a sitter, and reproduce this in greyscale. His sense of light and composition is immense; he can add great weight to a casual moment, and make light-hearted characters appear stately and imposing. The majority of photos on UKAR are great, but many of them aren't art as such. Many follow the airliners.net model of precisely and minutely documenting an aircraft. That is it. Screeds of photos taken at Duxford, RIAT or whatever, but the photos are shorn of any and all context, and instead present a stark image of an aircraft against a flat blue sky. A great visual document, but when does it become art?


And what, pray, does this have to do with the thread topic?

Another from the TKK140 school of completely missing the point.
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Re: Twitter sycophancy

Postby CJS on Tue 27 Jun 2017, 9:43 pm

Art will and should always be subjective, but I'll offer this little story if I may...

A few months ago I started showing my class a different piece of art each morning and the end of each week they voted on their favourite. One morning I showed a photo of the BBMF's Mk.II Spitfire (as it happens my favourite aircraft!).

This lead to a very interesting debate as to whether or not it was art. Bear in mind these are 7 and 8 year olds...they argued to and fro for nearly half an hour about it. Examples...

"it's art if it's flying but not if it's just sitting there"

"if it's firing its guns it's not art but if it's not it is"

"it's a photo so it can't be art. If it was a painting it would be"

"a plane can't be art"

Needless to say, the last comment ended in a week of well deserved detentions.

Not sure what it adds to this debate, other than further proof that P7350 is indeed the most beautiful object on the planet, but it was certainly very interesting.

Edit cos I was typing when you posted - Dan, threads evolve, that's how these things work. It's not as off thread as some end up! :-)
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Re: Twitter sycophancy

Postby Gonzo230 on Wed 28 Jun 2017, 5:55 am

I'm struggling to work out what the problem or injustice is here.

Do you think that these photographers are preventing you from doing what you want to do?

Do you think that they are taking recognition away from you?
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Re: Twitter sycophancy

Postby Airwolfhound on Wed 28 Jun 2017, 11:30 am

Georgeconna wrote:Crikey, there should be an Angry thread on this forum :lol:


Here you go :-

viewtopic.php?f=24&t=58669
https://www.flickr.com/photos/24874528@N04/

Agile, mobile and hostile ;-)
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Re: Twitter sycophancy

Postby Alanko on Wed 28 Jun 2017, 6:16 pm

Dan O'Hagan wrote:And what, pray, does this have to do with the thread topic?

Another from the TKK140 school of completely missing the point.



Come on Dan, this thread topic was over before it started: A bunch of old men, with only a passing comprehension of social media, took to their forum safe space to have a bitch fit about it. Nothing of any value to see here. Somebody else, laughably, brought David Bailey into the equation and suggested that (gasp) even the standard of photography here has slid in recent times. I found it wryly amusing that an artist such as David Bailey was mentioned at all, when this forum is bereft of art.
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Re: Twitter sycophancy

Postby LN Strike Eagle on Wed 28 Jun 2017, 6:41 pm

Alanko wrote:
Dan O'Hagan wrote:And what, pray, does this have to do with the thread topic?

Another from the TKK140 school of completely missing the point.



Come on Dan, this thread topic was over before it started: A bunch of old men, with only a passing comprehension of social media, took to their forum safe space to have a bitch fit about it. Nothing of any value to see here. Somebody else, laughably, brought David Bailey into the equation and suggested that (gasp) even the standard of photography here has slid in recent times. I found it wryly amusing that an artist such as David Bailey was mentioned at all, when this forum is bereft of art.

The David Bailey reference seems to have completely sailed over your head. Read it again. It's not suggesting that anyone here produces art - it's a sarcastic remark about people that produce below par images and somehow think that they're god's gift because they got some replies on a forum, something accepted to A.net or a retweet from a pilot. Substitute the name David Bailey for John Dibbs or Katsu Tokunaga if it helps your grasp. :surrender:
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Re: Twitter sycophancy

Postby Ewart on Thu 29 Jun 2017, 9:01 am

Alanko wrote:Come on Dan, this thread topic was over before it started: A bunch of old men, with only a passing comprehension of social media, took to their forum safe space to have a bitch fit about it. Nothing of any value to see here. Somebody else, laughably, brought David Bailey into the equation and suggested that (gasp) even the standard of photography here has slid in recent times. I found it wryly amusing that an artist such as David Bailey was mentioned at all, when this forum is bereft of art.


Oh I don't know, I'm sub-30 with I'd suggest a long and deep comprehension of first forums then social media.

I preferred the internet without Social Media. Stopped every Tom, Dick and Harry having their 20 seconds of re-tweeted/posted fame with frankly poor/photoshopped shots. And what is with the watermarks on everything?
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Re: Twitter sycophancy

Postby BDL on Fri 30 Jun 2017, 6:50 am

if you are in doubt as to who David Bailey is, well here's a blast from the past.

https://youtu.be/axCVcyDF7Ms
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Re: Twitter sycophancy

Postby Alanko on Fri 30 Jun 2017, 2:02 pm

LN Strike Eagle wrote:The David Bailey reference seems to have completely sailed over your head. Read it again. It's not suggesting that anyone here produces art - it's a sarcastic remark about people that produce below par images and somehow think that they're god's gift.


Its a labored point, but I perfectly understood it. By juxtaposing it with the notion that 'even the photography on UKAR has gone down hill', it suggests that the photography on UKAR was considered some beacon of quality at some point. Again it drives home the 'them versus us' mentality that is being cultivated here. Social media is full of attention seeking peasants with no photography skills, whereas although the quality has slid on UKAR it is still somehow better. My point is merely that photography is way to subjective to merely grade it as either good or bad.

Ewart wrote:I preferred the internet without Social Media. Stopped every Tom, Dick and Harry having their 20 seconds of re-tweeted/posted fame with frankly poor/photoshopped shots. And what is with the watermarks on everything?.


Again, all of this can be avoided. This thread is akin to me going to a bar that serves beer I don't like and plays music I don't like, then returning to my local pub to complain endlessly about the first bar. At no point is anybody forcing you to go onto Twitter and hunt down these bad photographs.

For a brief period of time I joined a Facebook page called 'Scotland by the roadside' or similar. Some people interpreted the brief far too literally, and there would be iPhone photographs of random wilderness, admittedly from the roadside, with poor lighting and zero sense of composition. If these photos were uploaded by women then there would be a screed of thirsty guys giving them totally unwarranted complements and praise. Then there would be the watermarking "professional photographers" who would use cheap overcooked HDR effects, oversaturate everything or post horrible greyscale images with the contrast ramped up. Sunsets in the far Hebrides turned into horrifying post-apocalyptic solar flare events, and the rocky wilderness of the North-west Highlands turned into terrifying irradiated moonscapes. Cheap ignorant stabs at adding drama and weight to otherwise mundane photographs of nothing we haven't already seen before a thousand times....

...and so I left the group! :ninja:
Alanko

Re: Twitter sycophancy

Postby psquiddy on Fri 30 Jun 2017, 5:29 pm

BDL wrote:if you are in doubt as to who David Bailey is, well here's a blast from the past.

https://youtu.be/axCVcyDF7Ms


David Bailey - Who is he?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3l1jUXC6858
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Re: Twitter sycophancy

Postby toom317 on Sat 01 Jul 2017, 10:03 am

Alanko wrote:... use cheap overcooked HDR effects ... Sunsets in the far Hebrides turned into horrifying post-apocalyptic solar flare events, and the rocky wilderness of the North-west Highlands turned into terrifying irradiated moonscapes. Cheap ignorant stabs at adding drama and weight to otherwise mundane photographs of nothing we haven't already seen before a thousand times....


Brilliant Alan, brilliant. :lol: Back in the says of analogue photography, I remember the craze for star filters and graduated filters. It was done to death, then largely disappeared. This HDR is the digital equivalent, and thankfully it seems to be dying out, even though there are still a few hangers on. It's a great tool for enhancing photos, but it's effect is grossly over exaggerated on many photos.
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Re: Twitter sycophancy

Postby borismorris on Sat 01 Jul 2017, 1:40 pm

It always makes me laugh when you see a crappy photo with comments like "fab pic hun" or "stunning photo"

Then you look at the image and theres some obese woman in the back of shot, or a lampost with a circus poster attached..or a dog doing its business... the advent of a camera in every phone means that everyone now thinks theyre David Bailey..
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Re: Twitter sycophancy

Postby Alanko on Mon 03 Jul 2017, 9:22 am

borismorris wrote:the advent of a camera in every phone means that everyone now thinks theyre David Bailey..


I am David Bailey and there's an echo in here! :tongue:
Alanko

Re: Twitter sycophancy

Postby Dan O'Hagan on Mon 03 Jul 2017, 9:24 am

Those of a sensitive nature or who are allergic to this sycophancy might do well to avoid their Twitter feeds today... :hide:
Dan O'Hagan

Re: Twitter sycophancy

Postby Alanko on Mon 03 Jul 2017, 9:42 am

Dan O'Hagan wrote:Those of a sensitive nature or who are allergic to this sycophancy might do well to avoid their Twitter feeds today... :hide:


Can you point me in the direction of the worst offenders? I feel like I'm missing out on some fun! :grin:
Alanko

Re: Twitter sycophancy

Postby Ewart on Mon 03 Jul 2017, 10:06 am

Dan O'Hagan wrote:Those of a sensitive nature or who are allergic to this sycophancy might do well to avoid their Twitter feeds today... :hide:


Splufftastic cloud forming jelly type of a day on there.

I think social media has created aviation groupies. Ones that may know everything about 558 and the colour of the underwear that the Typhoon pilot is wearing today, but can't tell the difference between a Mig-28 and a F-5 :joystick:
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Re: Twitter sycophancy

Postby Alanko on Mon 03 Jul 2017, 10:22 am

Ewart wrote:I think social media has created aviation groupies. Ones that may know everything about 558 and the colour of the underwear that the Typhoon pilot is wearing today, but can't tell the difference between a Mig-28 and a F-5 :joystick:


When Prestwick had a statics day in 2015 as part of the Ayr Airshow (Ayrshow?) VTTS had a stall set up. There were Vulcan groupies there, but they were simply middle aged men who wanted every Vulcan pilot present to sign their books.
Alanko

Re: Twitter sycophancy

Postby Jumbo on Mon 03 Jul 2017, 10:46 am

Ewart wrote: can't tell the difference between a Mig-28 and a F-5 :joystick:


i bet they even think the mig 28 can't do a negative G pushover :grin:
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