Where has XH558 thread gone?

Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby Tolatrafi on Sun 25 Feb 2018, 8:51 pm

JetMan wrote:
IgnatiusJReilly wrote:Beyond one planning permission application granted, its very difficult to point to anything meaningful that they've actually achieved for the millions donated.

So training a volunteer ground crew to be able to conduct ground runs, carrying out multiple ground runs, operating a popular retail outlet at a busy shopping centre, numerous events around the country at both air shows and other events organised by the trust and others, and more that I could name. But other than all of that, what have they done?


The question was - ‘what have they actually ACHIEVED for the millions donated?’

Not - ‘what have they actually DONE to keep a decent wage coming in for a handful of Trust members?’

If you read back through the newsletters they have promised the ‘People’ so much, taxi runs, hangar, public access, Etna etc etc

And what have the ‘People’ got in return? 558 stuck outside for months with no access and a dead Canberra. It’s well over 2 years now since the debacle of the final flight and it would interesting to see exactly how much money has been donated by the public to the Trust and exactly where it has all gone.

So, back to that question- can anyone point out anything meaningful that they’ve actually ACHIEVED for the millions donated?
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby IgnatiusJReilly on Sun 25 Feb 2018, 9:35 pm

JetMan wrote:So
    training a volunteer ground crew to be able to conduct ground runs, carrying out multiple ground runs,
    operating a popular retail outlet at a busy shopping centre,
    numerous events around the country at both air shows and other events organised by the trust and others, and more that I could name.
But other than all of that, what have they done?


Point one - this should have been done while the aircraft was still live, in preparation for post flight. That they did eventually train some volunteers only happened because they had to lay off all the full time engineers. The volunteers were only required in order to cut the cost of the engine runs to make them more profitable - more profit needed per run needed because the numbers able to partake are so strictly limited.
Behind the gloss of a few static engine runs is the fact that there has no affordable general public access and certainly nothing for the kids that they're supposed to be inspiring to attend. And what have they done with the funds raised?

Point two - a temporary pop up shop... to help raise more cash to pay the wage bill. Tell me that the funds raised by the pop-up shop has purchased airside passes for school kids to visit XH558 and I'd be more impressed.

Point three - a pretty thin program of fund raising events, to help raise more cash - see point 2
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby jalfrezi on Mon 26 Feb 2018, 10:47 am

As Brevet has rightly pointed out; if you have complaints about the way the Trust has spent funds then you should take the time to complain here - https://www.gov.uk/complain-about-charity Alternatively, you could write to the Trust or to the Heritage Lottery Fund explaining your concerns and see if they can answer them.

Whilst voicing your concerns and opinions on UKAR is perfectly fine, it's not going to change anything, as even on the off chance the Trustees do look at this thread, I very much doubt they would reply here.
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby Gregg on Mon 26 Feb 2018, 1:48 pm

Might be worth noting that the vast majority of the 'numerous events around the country' weren't trust stands, but club ones.
Gregg

Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby Full Flaps on Mon 26 Feb 2018, 3:18 pm

Gregg wrote:Might be worth noting that the vast majority of the 'numerous events around the country' weren't trust stands, but club ones.

I think Jetman was referring to the organised events over the last two years, not in Club/airshow/flying days.

Anyone for Hucknall Flight Test Museum in May?
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby Xm657 on Mon 26 Feb 2018, 7:14 pm

JetMan wrote:
IgnatiusJReilly wrote:Beyond one planning permission application granted, its very difficult to point to anything meaningful that they've actually achieved for the millions donated.

So training a volunteer ground crew to be able to conduct ground runs, carrying out multiple ground runs, operating a popular retail outlet at a busy shopping centre, numerous events around the country at both air shows and other events organised by the trust and others, and more that I could name. But other than all of that, what have they done?


Ignatius asked what has been achieved for the "millions donated", yet all of these items you list have been either donated for free by volunteers, have cost very little, or were cost neutral as they were fund raising events. It certainly will be interesting to see the next set of annual accounts, as an awful lot of money seems to have completely wasted. You list activities which the Trust has done to raise even more money, yet we wonder, on what was the money spent?

When you compare the VttTS with the groups at Wellesbourne and Southend (or even Elvington and Bruntingthorpe), it's even more perplexing - they have achieved so much with virtually no money at all. The Trust's talents and achievements are to extract huge sums of money from the public; if only they knew how to translate this into caring for a retired Vulcan.
Xm657

Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby Ian G on Mon 26 Feb 2018, 7:32 pm

Xm657 wrote:When you compare the VttTS with the groups at Wellesbourne and Southend (or even Elvington and Bruntingthorpe), it's even more perplexing - they have achieved so much with virtually no money at all. The Trust's talents and achievements are to extract huge sums of money from the public; if only they knew how to translate this into caring for a retired Vulcan.


'nuff said
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby vulcan558 on Fri 02 Mar 2018, 11:03 am

Ian G wrote:
Xm657 wrote:When you compare the VttTS with the groups at Wellesbourne and Southend (or even Elvington and Bruntingthorpe), it's even more perplexing - they have achieved so much with virtually no money at all. The Trust's talents and achievements are to extract huge sums of money from the public; if only they knew how to translate this into caring for a retired Vulcan.


'nuff said

Perfect point. The trust have had the money to build an hangar. But the wage bill is there prority not the aircraft.
vulcan558

Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby flashman8 on Fri 02 Mar 2018, 11:51 am

vulcan558 wrote:
Ian G wrote:
Xm657 wrote:When you compare the VttTS with the groups at Wellesbourne and Southend (or even Elvington and Bruntingthorpe), it's even more perplexing - they have achieved so much with virtually no money at all. The Trust's talents and achievements are to extract huge sums of money from the public; if only they knew how to translate this into caring for a retired Vulcan.


'nuff said

Perfect point. The trust have had the money to build an hangar. But the wage bill is there prority not the aircraft.


Should be the other way round, no 558, no wage bill.. :biggrin:

Should have had a builder/developer in place and ready to go before 558 arrived .......... :mad:

As said, Wellesbourne, Southend and Elvington all have live big jets, and run them well on (compared to VTTS) a drop in the ocean..... :clap:
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby ExVulcanGC on Fri 02 Mar 2018, 1:25 pm

Unfortunately, or fortunately for those still getting a wage, the wonder and awe that produced the avid following of a large number of people post 558’s return to flight, despite the issues with the trusts financial management throughout the whole time of the project to date, has meant the income has never diminished by enough to concern the trust into changing its ways.

People are still paying in money, which of course they are entitled to do, money that way exceeds what the other volunteer organisation with live Vulcans get, despite these days not much hope of getting near 558 or for the foreseeable future, and on those occasion that people have got near her, rather overpriced for what you get for your money, and yet people are still prepared to pay whatever it takes and appear to care not what the money is used for.

Some may even still be paying by Direct Debit/Standing Order and have forgotten to cancel, some are probably living in hope of a change, plus there is still support from businesses and the Airport itself, one has to ask why, do they know something that others do not, or I they still living the dream of a flying Vulcan.
ExVulcanGC

Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby aviodromefriend on Fri 02 Mar 2018, 9:13 pm

ExVulcanGC wrote:or I they still living the dream of a flying Vulcan.
You should really hope that at least the people running the airport know enough about aviation to understand it will never happen again.
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby Dan O'Hagan on Fri 02 Mar 2018, 9:21 pm

Someone from UKAR needs to track Dr Bob down for another interview. Doesn't seem like any other aviation media outlet will. High time some more difficult questions were asked. It's been 13 months since the last podcast, and the hole the project is in now seems far, far deeper. Don't seem to have the time to do those sort of things myself any more!
Dan O'Hagan

Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby GertrudetheMerciless on Sun 04 Mar 2018, 10:42 am

Dan O'Hagan wrote:Someone from UKAR needs to track Dr Bob down for another interview. Doesn't seem like any other aviation media outlet will. High time some more difficult questions were asked. It's been 13 months since the last podcast, and the hole the project is in now seems far, far deeper. Don't seem to have the time to do those sort of things myself any more!


Or just divert our attention to something far more interesting and viable. I re-listened to your interview last week; such a shame that very little appears to have happened.

Meanwhile at several airports around the country, volunteers toil and fundraise (for tiny, minuscule, amounts compared to Plemig's hangar 7 vision) in all weathers to keep their own projects going and alive. It's like they want to suck all the money in their direction.
GertrudetheMerciless

Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby Brevet Cable on Sun 04 Mar 2018, 12:31 pm

No different to other charities, then.
Meh !!
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby GertrudetheMerciless on Sun 04 Mar 2018, 2:29 pm

Brevet Cable wrote:No different to other charities, then.


Not really, but unique to our own sphere of interest. Groups survive on incomes counted in thousands while one man has a (misplaced, IMHO) vision to hoover up millions (tens of) in public donations on a project which, post Shoreham, would be on very shaky ground. The fact he wants to create it along the lines of a facility funded by a private billionaire is probably a good starter on where it might go wrong.
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby HeyfordDave111 on Thu 08 Mar 2018, 5:22 pm

Coins! Blinking coins!

Really?

And how is the obverse depicting a swept wing Tonka through the cad when it’s just an outline of a Tonka and no land depicted?

Mmmmmmm £150 coins of the realm too..........ooooooo decisions decisions, :facepalm:
Just checked, I can fly ( remember what flying is VTTS? ) to Rome for 50 less than that return........for 2!

Vulcan or Rome? :snack:
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby IgnatiusJReilly on Thu 08 Mar 2018, 8:45 pm

HeyfordDave111 wrote:Coins! Blinking coins!

Really?


Tenuous link klaxon...
The first coin in the RAF100 series features the Tornado GR.4. An aircraft flown by XH558 pilot, Kev Rumens, during his RAF career.

If that sort of thing is your bag, then fair enough, I suppose, but Jeez... does anyone outside of the Daily Mail buying fraternity really buy this cr*p?
Eccentric, idealistic, and creative, sometimes to the point of delusion..
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby vulcan558 on Thu 15 Mar 2018, 8:53 am

MicrolightDriver wrote:
GertrudetheMerciless wrote:
MicrolightDriver wrote:
Xm657 wrote:
It's nice that David Walton can still be kind enough to lend them his hangar after everything that's happened.


Does make you wonder just how serious the much talked about 'rift' ever was.


Or whether the renting of the hangar for the event is just a business transaction?


Or actually whether the hangar has been rented for the event? or whether anyone said it's 'just a business transaction'?

Any news on this event takeing place. I've seen nothing official from the VTTS website.
vulcan558

Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby Brevet Cable on Thu 15 Mar 2018, 12:16 pm

There you go....all of about 10 seconds work & a couple of clicks from the dirty great 'Forthcoming Events' banner on the front page of the VTST website :
http://www.vulcantotheskystore.co.uk/bruntingthorpe-25th-anniversary-of-xh558s-last-raf-flight-4623-p.asp

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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby GertrudetheMerciless on Thu 15 Mar 2018, 11:23 pm

I take it people won't be allowed off the courtesy bus?
GertrudetheMerciless

Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby Xm657 on Fri 16 Mar 2018, 1:32 am

I still cant get over the irony of this event taking place where everyone wanted 558 to be apart from VttST. Its like they are taunting people with their arrogance! I hope someone asks some hard questions in the Q&A session.
Xm657

Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby Brevet Cable on Fri 16 Mar 2018, 1:35 am

Xm657 wrote:...where everyone wanted 558 to be apart from VttST

Except it wasn't 'everyone'.
Meh !!
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby vulcan558 on Fri 16 Mar 2018, 5:38 am

Brevet Cable wrote:
Xm657 wrote:...where everyone wanted 558 to be apart from VttST

Except it wasn't 'everyone'.

Correct it was only around 74% that wanted Bruntingthorpe.
vulcan558

Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby HeyfordDave111 on Fri 16 Mar 2018, 7:41 am

Well, 3 out of every 4 persons asked wanted Brunty huh?

Glad that VTTS knew better, and irrespective of the overriding wishes of the majority, decided to run roughshod over opinion and wants of their funders.

Still, it’s done now, we have to live with that decision.

Glad that as it’s into her 3rd year since she was grounded, she’s safe in a museum where everyone can see her, warm and cosy and maintained by full time professionals, in a hangar with lots of aircraft around to keep her company, and see her do periodic but regular thunder runs up and down the runway.........oh, hold on! :facepalm:

With her underside covered with lovely plaques (for plaques, read cheesy vinyls), she’s a nothing exhibit now, just a cash cow for her paymasters rather that as ‘the people’s aircraft’ on display everyday for us, the paying punter, to go and see.

And now they intend to ‘visit the hangar’ that kept her safe and warm for all those years to “celebrate” the anniversary since her retirement, at the location that was deemed unsuitable and inadequate for 558.
Remember, by their own inadequate location currently has the victor in that very hangar being safe and warm!
Irony eh?

Wonder how many mugs , sorry customers will have paid to go on a bus to see the collection and to celebrate the anniversary?

Indeed, is it the anniversary, or just the anniversary year? I seen to remember she did her last display at Cranfield, and then hung around while tender documents were sent out, received, then the final ferry flight to
Brunty. And that’s a date that certainly wasn’t a cold March day, was it?

What a mess.
Got to love Russianhardware
HeyfordDave111

Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby Dan O'Hagan on Fri 16 Mar 2018, 9:16 am

If I didn't know better, I'd swear Bob-A-Job was trolling the supporters with this event. Or maybe he's paying tribute to Jim Bowen: "Look what you could have won".

A hangar, open and easy bus access on a private airfield to volunteer-operated, funded and maintained live airframes and a central England location. No, Doncaster was ALWAYS the better option, wasn't it?

One hopes there will indeed be difficult questions asked by those in attendance, but I assume it'll be the same dwinding band of gammon-faced, Union Jack-avatared Brexit-voting dimwits who are stupid enough to pay £25 to celebrate the spurious anniversary of an aircraft that's not even there.

Name one decision made by Pleming since 2015 which has left XH558 better off than any of the live airframes at Bruntingthorpe?
Dan O'Hagan

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