Where has XH558 thread gone?

Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby vulcan558 on Thu 24 May 2018, 6:02 am

Xm657 wrote:Let hope there is news soon. Think it about it practically, there really needs to be news soon. I can't see how the VTTST could continue in its present form if the hangar build doesn't go ahead, so probably true to say make or break this year. GDPR teaser or not though, seems unlikely they would say that if there was nothing in the pipeline so maybe a developer is lined up. They are like a cat with 99 lives perhaps!

Yes the sooner the better, they will be back to square one then like in hangar3.
Again with the added monthly costs of rent and would suggest more cost then in hangar3.
With only monthly engines runs that i guess just covers the fuel and insurance bill,
It will be intresting how long they can survive. They could not survive in hangar3 with the benifits that came with hangar3, it will be a bigger challenge on there own with all the secondary costs per year of renting another hangar.

It took only a couple of years to be outside once she stopped flying. Will guess it will be the same again in this hangar but with a drastic end to the vtts reign. 558 will survive at doncaster for years but the last 3 years have been a big mess regarding joe public getting decent access to her and it will continue like that.
This weekend will see joe public getting decent access at Bruntingthorpes, with live aircraft fast taxi runs that have been doing so for almost the last 30years, 2 large airshows have been held there in that time also.
So you cannot rubbish anything about Brunti.
The proper home for 558 as a ground runner.
vulcan558

Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby pbeardmore on Thu 24 May 2018, 9:27 am

With many feeling that the airframe market value is scrap, it will be interesting to see how they value the airframe in the next set of accounts and whether they have taken outside advice re its market value. They are in a tough position as perhaps , if they do know the true value, to report this means that the charity has effectively lost £739,000 in one year in terms of writing off assets. Hard to admit this when their efforts are actually to keep the airframe in decent condition and it will imply it was over valued before.

Having said that, if they take the same view re the depreciation on last year, they will value the airframe at around £720,000 which IMHO is bonkers.

They are in a tricky position. But a postion of their own making.
“The best computer is a man, and it’s the only one that can be mass-produced by unskilled labour.”
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby XR219 on Thu 24 May 2018, 12:17 pm

Xm657 wrote: Oh and he gave up all revenue from the main hangar for 10 years to have 558 restored - and gave 558 and all the spares to the VTTST.


Unfortunately this is factually incorrect. VTTST have been very clear that everyone who saw XH558 fly after 1993 owes David Walton a huge debt of gratitude. It would simply not have happened without his vision and at various times the project would have collapsed were it not for the goodwill of C Walton Ltd. His interest and support for the project are beyond question, as those who were present at the recent 25th anniversary event at Bruntingthorpe would have seen. However, it was not given for free and as you (quite correctly) allude to in your comments, there was no reason it should have been.

As required by the terms of the HLF agreement, XH558 + spares were bought for the nation, with that process being completed on March 3rd 2005. The hangar was leased by the Trust for the purposes of the restoration. The appropriate references, should you wish to confirm this information, would be the VTTST Annual reports of 2005 and 2006, which are publicly available.
@steveliddle558
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XR219

Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby F-5F on Thu 24 May 2018, 12:51 pm

As XH558 and spares were bought for the nation please can you tell me when I will be able to visit the "peoples aircraft"? Oh wait a minute - I can't because it is unavailable for viewing - unless of course I stump up £100 to hear the engines run.
F-5F

Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby XR219 on Thu 24 May 2018, 1:33 pm

No, I can’t. But as stated in the GPDR emails that have gone out to supporters...

Soon we expect to share major news about Vulcan XH558, her new home and how she’ll be inspiring future engineers, technicians and aviators.
@steveliddle558
Vulcan to the Sky Trust Trustee (although expressing my own views)
XR219

Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby Dan213 on Thu 24 May 2018, 1:34 pm

XR219 wrote:No, I can’t. But as stated in the GPDR emails that have gone out to supporters...

Soon we expect to share major news about Vulcan XH558, her new home and how she’ll be inspiring future engineers, technicians and aviators.


You'd make a great politician!
Dan213

Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby Xm657 on Thu 24 May 2018, 5:33 pm

XR219 wrote:
Xm657 wrote: Oh and he gave up all revenue from the main hangar for 10 years to have 558 restored - and gave 558 and all the spares to the VTTST.


The hangar was leased by the Trust for the purposes of the restoration. The appropriate references, should you wish to confirm this information, would be the VTTST Annual reports of 2005 and 2006, which are publicly available.


And in later accounts where large sums if not all of these charges were written off by C Walton Ltd? I seem to recall that the Waltons only started charging after a falling out with the Trust. But anyway what does it matter now. If people want to dislike Bruntingthorpe it's their loss (and 558's).
Xm657

Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby bernarde on Thu 24 May 2018, 5:46 pm

XR219 wrote:No, I can’t. But as stated in the GPDR emails that have gone out to supporters...

Soon we expect to share major news about Vulcan XH558, her new home and how she’ll be inspiring future engineers, technicians and aviators.


Major news as in asking the public for more money? :wall: :claypole:
bernarde

Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby XR219 on Thu 24 May 2018, 6:30 pm

Xm657 wrote:
And in later accounts where large sums if not all of these charges were written off by C Walton Ltd? I seem to recall that the Waltons only started charging after a falling out with the Trust. But anyway what does it matter now. If people want to dislike Bruntingthorpe it's their loss (and 558's).


I agree, it was a long time ago. But then, you brought it up and it was appropriate to challenge. All of the accounts are publicly available, you are welcome to satisfy yourself about subsequent events. I did attempt to PM about this but was unable to.

The contentious issue for those who were there at the time (I didn't get involved until later) was that they worked very hard to generate sufficient income to pay the bills for the Bruntingthorpe hangar. Hence, the suggestion that it was all given for free somewhat diminishes both their efforts and the contributions of those who donated.

I'm content to leave the matter there if you are.
@steveliddle558
Vulcan to the Sky Trust Trustee (although expressing my own views)
XR219

Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby vulcan558 on Thu 24 May 2018, 7:00 pm

XR219 wrote:
Xm657 wrote:
And in later accounts where large sums if not all of these charges were written off by C Walton Ltd? I seem to recall that the Waltons only started charging after a falling out with the Trust. But anyway what does it matter now. If people want to dislike Bruntingthorpe it's their loss (and 558's).


I agree, it was a long time ago. But then, you brought it up and it was appropriate to challenge. All of the accounts are publicly available, you are welcome to satisfy yourself about subsequent events. I did attempt to PM about this but was unable to.

The contentious issue for those who were there at the time (I didn't get involved until later) was that they worked very hard to generate sufficient income to pay the bills for the Bruntingthorpe hangar. Hence, the suggestion that it was all given for free somewhat diminishes both their efforts and the contributions of those who donated.

I'm content to leave the matter there if you are.

Hangar fees again, yep they have a great track record of not keeping 558 in hangar space,
Brunti writ off large sums of what the vtts call peppercorn rent,
hangar 3 Doncaster they could not meet the market rent same in hangar1 i guess.
They got lucky with the RAF giving her shelter and hangar space in her flying life,
This new hangar if built will be another chapter to see.

Got the money to keep the wages coming in though with no problem renting out units and office space.
558 is just a commercial cash cow.
vulcan558

Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby Marathon Milkshake on Thu 24 May 2018, 10:40 pm

XR219 wrote:No, I can’t. But as stated in the GPDR emails that have gone out to supporters...

Soon we expect to share major news about Vulcan XH558, her new home and how she’ll be inspiring future engineers, technicians and aviators.


Standard party line, heard it many many times over......
Those that matter, don't mind. Those that mind, don't matter
Marathon Milkshake

Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby Brevet Cable on Thu 24 May 2018, 11:49 pm

:roll:
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Not an enthusiast or a spotter
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby IgnatiusJReilly on Fri 25 May 2018, 8:54 am

bernarde wrote:
XR219 wrote:Soon we expect to share major news about Vulcan XH558, her new home and how she’ll be inspiring future engineers, technicians and aviators.


Major news as in asking the public for more money? :wall: :claypole:


How did you guess?
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby Ewart on Fri 25 May 2018, 2:05 pm

XR219 wrote:
IgnatiusJReilly wrote:It's interesting that whenever there's talk of responsible oversight & action from the trustees, Steve Liddle disappears from view..
A more cynical man might ponder whether talk of silica bags and rolling is just a reliable, tried & trusted distraction mechanism to avoid answering what the trustees are actually going to do to fix this situation.



Steve Liddle is here, but has his hands full of other stuff as we speak. Rest assured, oversight is being provided.

I was actually composing a reply to address your previous post, which I thought contained some reasonable questions…


I like to think myself a neutral on the topic of XH558. Not really fussed either way about the project and have never donated to it or bought from the shop. At 30 I'm old enough to remember being scared as a kid by the Vulcan at airshows.

And this thread I see as the Avgeek soap opera, the wife gets Corridale, I get this thread.

But come on Steve, you can't leave a cliff hangar [sic] like that for the awaiting public, it's a reply worthy of the baddy returning in Corridale...
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Ewart

Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby Dan O'Hagan on Fri 25 May 2018, 2:08 pm

I suspect the only people she'll be inspiring in a couple of years will be the next generation of bailiffs, scrap metal merchants and bulldozer operators.

This farce has gone on for long enough.
Dan O'Hagan

Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby MicrolightDriver on Fri 25 May 2018, 2:36 pm

So are people now thinking that a hangar will actually be built?
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby XR219 on Fri 25 May 2018, 4:25 pm

Ewart wrote:
But come on Steve, you can't leave a cliff hangar [sic] like that for the awaiting public, it's a reply worthy of the baddy returning in Corridale...


I've forgotten the question to be honest. What was I supposed to be answering?
@steveliddle558
Vulcan to the Sky Trust Trustee (although expressing my own views)
XR219

Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby vulcan558 on Fri 25 May 2018, 6:57 pm

MicrolightDriver wrote:So are people now thinking that a hangar will actually be built?

Does it matter, its not a achievement in anyway.
Its a discrace to be in this situation in the 1st place. Retirieing 558nin a place with no hangar space no runway to taxi on no public access with it being a comercial airport,

And you ask if anyone cares about another hangar, 558s been in 2 rented hangars on that site already.
Whats so special about a 3rd rented hangar being so clever.
vulcan558

Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby 106500 on Fri 25 May 2018, 7:14 pm

Dan O'Hagan wrote:I suspect the only people she'll be inspiring in a couple of years will be the next generation of bailiffs, scrap metal merchants and bulldozer operators.

This farce has gone on for long enough.


Conversely, when the hangar is built and when the aircraft fast taxis at reasonable cost, I wonder how the virulent sceptics on this forum will react? :roll:
106500

Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby vulcan558 on Fri 25 May 2018, 7:27 pm

106500 wrote:
Dan O'Hagan wrote:I suspect the only people she'll be inspiring in a couple of years will be the next generation of bailiffs, scrap metal merchants and bulldozer operators.

This farce has gone on for long enough.


Conversely, when the hangar is built and when the aircraft fast taxis at reasonable cost, I wonder how the virulent sceptics on this forum will react? :roll:

It will not be an achievement though willl it,
558 was retired to Doncastor so we was told to be doing this, it was the best place and plan.
It obviously was not, as we have seen over the last 3 years.

If the hangar is built then all they have done is jumped out of the frying pan into the fire.
10years on this new hangar is about enough time for the present trust to survive till death or retirment
On the 558 gravy train.
vulcan558

Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby MicrolightDriver on Fri 25 May 2018, 7:32 pm

Blimey, here we go again... :roll:

I only asked whether people think it's going to happen...
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby Brevet Cable on Fri 25 May 2018, 8:10 pm

XR219 wrote:I've forgotten the question to be honest. What was I supposed to be answering?

The question's simple.....
Given the entrenched attitudes of some of the more vociferous posters on here ( who don't see the irony when they ridicule others for being 'happy clappers', 'blinkered', etc. ) do you find yourself wondering why you're bothering?

You could post that VTST took the funds raised this year, bought tickets for the Euromillions/Spanish/whatever Lottery, won upwards of £100mil and are therefore buying a new hangar outright ( including the land it's on ) are restoring the Canberra and Swift to flight & are in the process of establishing a Harrier display flight......and the usual suspects on here would still find something to complain about ! :lol:
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby IP1960 on Fri 25 May 2018, 10:09 pm

Brevet Cable wrote: ......restoring the Canberra and Swift to flight & are in the process of establishing a Harrier display flight......and the usual suspects on here would still find something to complain about ! :lol:


Quite right too - should have been done in time for RAF100 :grin:
IP1960

Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby vulcan558 on Sat 26 May 2018, 6:38 am

What the vtts are trying to have at Doncaster already exists at Bruntingthorpes.
Hangar 42 as the perfect location, it does weddings and large functions. As got its own site and entrance before the main gate, so no need to bother day today business of the main site. Its own parking the whole package.

Had 558 gone back home this facility could have been tweaked at a small cost to have been the perfect location.
Vtts knew this but would not have been on the gravy train anymore, so have sacrificed 558 for there own gains.
That is the bottom line of it all in my view.

Google hangar 42 and see for yourselfs.
Then again there is no reason for a newbuild facility say next to the LPG,
The LPG got those QRA hangars built over a number of years of fund raising.
The diffrence with those guy's and the vtts on a funding scale would be say those QRA cost 200k and took 3 years to raise that money, if the vtts done this they would be in debt, 200k would not cover the wage bill for the 1st year.
This is the problem
vulcan558

Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby Brevet Cable on Sat 26 May 2018, 11:32 am

:tumbleweed: :tumbleweed: :tumbleweed: :tumbleweed: :tumbleweed: :tumbleweed:
Brevet.. Meh !!
Not an enthusiast or a spotter
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