Where has XH558 thread gone?

Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby vulcan558 on Mon 04 Dec 2017, 6:52 am

JetMan wrote:Some fantastic new additions for XL388, I'm sure they'll look great when they're finally installed next year.


The team there are running a £1000 New Year Challenge. They want to have raised £1000 by 23:59 on 31/12/17 to put them in good stead for the rest of the restoration. The money will allow them to buy paints, consumables, rare parts etc. and progress the work they're doing. If you can support them, please visit http://www.justgiving.com/crowdfunding/Vulcan-XL388

Did you buy those from the Stratford stores grand sale at the weekend.
vulcan558

Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby Dan O'Hagan on Mon 04 Dec 2017, 8:30 am

What a Godforsaken mess all this is now. Since October 2015 what has been achieved? Pie in the sky plans for hangars, money wasted on a Canberra nobody asked for, wanted or could afford, and now three airframes left out to the elements at an airfield that clearly would rather they weren't there.

And still those responsible for error upon error remain, unaccountable and unchallenged. And that's how it'll stay until the slow-witted Facebookers stop donating and the bulldozers roll in.

Bravo to the 655 and 426 teams - with limited resources they get on with things and do just fine.
Dan O'Hagan

Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby MicrolightDriver on Mon 04 Dec 2017, 9:03 am

bernarde wrote:The swift was pushed out the hangar exactly a year after it went in.. VTTS cannot afford to pay 2Excel for the space or 2excel cutting all ties with VTTS - you decide... either way its a complete shambles.


Well the hangarage was offered 'with kind permission' of 2Excel so I doubt it's anything to do with money.

2Excel are also fully engaged with delivering one of the prizes for the current VTTS Winter Raffle, so I doubt it's any kind of 'cutting ties' move either.

Plus of course, Taff Stone has already offered a perfectly plausible explanation....

So I've 'decided', thanks.
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby HeyfordDave111 on Mon 04 Dec 2017, 9:18 am

MicrolightDriver wrote:
bernarde wrote:The swift was pushed out the hangar exactly a year after it went in.. VTTS cannot afford to pay 2Excel for the space or 2excel cutting all ties with VTTS - you decide... either way its a complete shambles.


"Well the hangarage was offered 'with kind permission' of 2Excel so I doubt it's anything to do with money"

sorry but i cannot see your logic....... if it's nothing to do with money, why then isn't the Swift, Canberra or the Golden goose now inside, dry and slightly warmer? :dizzy:
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby Xm657 on Mon 04 Dec 2017, 10:45 am

HeyfordDave,

the point MicrolightDriver is making, which I also pointed out a few posts ago, was that 2 Excel were housing the Swift for free while they had space. This was never going to be a permanent arrangement, and clearly the free space they had for this fairly small airframe is no longer available. So there is no financial change for the VttTS, the move of the Swift does not represent any change in fortunes. All three aircraft are now parked for free, courtesy of the Airport's generosity, next to the sewage works as far as I can see.

The problem I have with the finances, is where is all the money going now? They are still raising big sums off the back of 558's fame. Lets pray this money is being set aside for the future, as expenditure on the airframes surely must be negligible at the moment. If it transpires, the money is being fritted away, it will be disastrous.
Xm657

Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby HeyfordDave111 on Mon 04 Dec 2017, 11:00 am

Hi Mate,

Thanks for clarifying it for me.

I re-read my post and thought i’d Gotten slightly squifffy in my question, and apologies to MLD.
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HeyfordDave111

Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby Brevet Cable on Mon 04 Dec 2017, 1:03 pm

Xm657 wrote:Lets pray this money is being set aside for the future, as expenditure on the airframes surely must be negligible at the moment. If it transpires, the money is being fritted away, it will be disastrous.

You omitted the one thing that the money is almost certainly being used for.....paying the wages of all the hangers-on & the managers with no underlings to manage. Surely that's not fritting away, as managers are far more important than useless lumps of metal. :whistle:
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby aviodromefriend on Mon 04 Dec 2017, 7:55 pm

aviodromefriend wrote:Also I put an order for that Swift book to their webshop, that is now "processing" since last monday. You can criticise them for whatever you want, but most of the time I used their webshop, as soon as an order went into processing, it was despatched within 24 hours.
To be fair to them: today I received an email that the order was despatched today. Maybe they were just too busy with that open stores event?
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby vulcan558 on Mon 04 Dec 2017, 8:00 pm

aviodromefriend wrote:
aviodromefriend wrote:Also I put an order for that Swift book to their webshop, that is now "processing" since last monday. You can criticise them for whatever you want, but most of the time I used their webshop, as soon as an order went into processing, it was despatched within 24 hours.
To be fair to them: today I received an email that the order was despatched today. Maybe they were just too busy with that open stores event?

Yes the open stores sale at the weekend would have kept them busy, stock takes are also normal around thisvtime of year also.
vulcan558

Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby vulcan558 on Mon 04 Dec 2017, 8:06 pm

JetMan wrote:Some fantastic new additions for XL388, I'm sure they'll look great when they're finally installed next year.


The team there are running a £1000 New Year Challenge. They want to have raised £1000 by 23:59 on 31/12/17 to put them in good stead for the rest of the restoration. The money will allow them to buy paints, consumables, rare parts etc. and progress the work they're doing. If you can support them, please visit http://www.justgiving.com/crowdfunding/Vulcan-XL388

Great work by that small band of Volunteers, its a shame that the Vtts are getting all the credit.
No doubt adding the achievement to thier CV,
Truth is they do not help, just again grabbing money from selling parts,
I bet they do not even help by buying the Milk for the Volunteers tea or coffees, but will be adding costa coffee to there exspense bill.
vulcan558

Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby MicrolightDriver on Mon 04 Dec 2017, 8:07 pm

Brevet Cable wrote:
Xm657 wrote:Lets pray this money is being set aside for the future, as expenditure on the airframes surely must be negligible at the moment. If it transpires, the money is being fritted away, it will be disastrous.

You omitted the one thing that the money is almost certainly being used for.....paying the wages of all the hangers-on & the managers with no underlings to manage. Surely that's not fritting away, as managers are far more important than useless lumps of metal. :whistle:


With most of the staff gone, others working part time or 'on loan' to another company in H3, I'm not sure what the 'wage bill' looks like nowadays. Certainly they'll ultimately be getting paid what's due to them from the Trust's income, but I don't think it's fair to imply that's taking everything. Unless you actually know otherwise?

I think we also need to remember that ( like it or not ) the Trust is seeking to meet certain much debated commitments, and also planning towards a wider future than the convenient 'preserving a rotting hulk' narrative that some people are so fond of. Maybe one day it'll turn out once again that they've achieved a lot more than people predicted.
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby Brevet Cable on Mon 04 Dec 2017, 9:24 pm

Unless there have been other more recent changes, last heard of the 22 staff they got rid of 14, which left 8.
They then apparently had one come back off maternity leave, so that would mean 9.
There's a possibility that one was missed off the total originally listed as employed, so there could actually be 10 left.
The last accounts put the wage bill at about £750k.....as only one person was listed as being paid more than £60k, it wouldn't surprise me if the current wage bill would still come to a minimum of £300k.
The amount of money they've got coming in now is apparently conciderably less than it used to be.

So yes, I do feel that most of the income is going towards wages & associated costs ( pension payments, etc. ) unless it can be shown otherwise.

Funnily enough, the question has again been asked on the VTTS forum....not by me, I hasten to add.
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby IgnatiusJReilly on Mon 04 Dec 2017, 10:30 pm

Just bear in mind that I don't think that the expenditure listed in the 'salary' column of the accounts tells the whole story.
The use of consultants and their associated fees should also be considered.
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby Xm657 on Tue 05 Dec 2017, 10:11 am

MicrolightDriver wrote:I think we also need to remember that ( like it or not ) the Trust is seeking to meet certain much debated commitments, and also planning towards a wider future than the convenient 'preserving a rotting hulk' narrative that some people are so fond of. Maybe one day it'll turn out once again that they've achieved a lot more than people predicted.


I'm not sure that to do this they need to be spending large sums on wages. Well unless there is nobody competent who would be willing to volunteer their time to help. Its ironic that the amount of money expended on these "professional" services to secure a long term future, must be starting to outweigh the actual build cost of permanent hangar. The turnover figure up until the end of 2016 was into the millions - i.e. millions of pounds have been donates/spent by 558's fans but expended on wages/rent/cost of fund raising, so basically dead money. If 558's fame had been managed more tightly post flight she could have had her own hangar by now, or at least be in one with a small mortgage. As it stands, all the money is gone, and they are starting from scratch, with the need to earn enough for rent and costs for ever more. I can only see this ending badly, unless the Trust becomes more realistic and reduces wages towards zero where ever possible.
Xm657

Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby Brevet Cable on Tue 05 Dec 2017, 10:33 am

Unless things have changed, the list ( not including the Engineering Manager ) of full-time staff should still be :
Webstore Manager, Admin Manager, Remote Stock Sales Manager, Admin Manager at Doncaster, Facilities Manager
Webstore assistant, Admin assistant, Remote Stock Sales Assistant, Admin Assistant at Doncaster

5 Managers & 4 Assistants !! :dizzy:
Can anyone really say that's justified ?
To me it smacks of 'jobs for the boys'....or are they saying that none of those jobs can't be amalgamated ( especially the 'Manager' roles )


Edited to add....
Just worked it out for a post on the VTTS forum.....
IF the current wage bill is half what it used to be - because there's half the employees - then the monthly outgoings on wages alone ( excluding pensions, consultants' fees, etc ) look likely to be in the region of £25-30k
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby IgnatiusJReilly on Tue 05 Dec 2017, 4:56 pm

Dunno what all the fuss is about... they need all those staff to run the merchandising machine necessary to raise all the cash needed to pay the wages.
:wall:


It would be very interesting to work out exactly how much of each £ donated is actually spent, genuinely & truthfully, on maintaining XH558 excluding all the b/s back office staff, pensions, benefits and consultants.
I would hazard a guess that at very best it's going to be single digit pence..
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby Brevet Cable on Tue 05 Dec 2017, 5:02 pm

I would hazard a guess that at very best it's going to be single digit pence..

If only because ha'pennies are no longer legal tender.... :lol:
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby MicrolightDriver on Tue 05 Dec 2017, 6:41 pm

Surely if someone had real grounds to conclude there was impropriety in the way the Trust is operating, the matter should be / would have been reported to the correct authority?
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby Brevet Cable on Tue 05 Dec 2017, 7:47 pm

Don't think anyone's claiming impropriety........although whether or not retaining a full-time staff of 6 Managers & 4 Assistants, with the wage bill likely to be somewhere North of £25k a month for them, could be considered justifiable or ethical is another matter.
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby cg_341 on Tue 05 Dec 2017, 7:54 pm

Image
cg_341

Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby vulcan558 on Tue 05 Dec 2017, 8:53 pm

Brevet Cable wrote:Don't think anyone's claiming impropriety........although whether or not retaining a full-time staff of 6 Managers & 4 Assistants, with the wage bill likely to be somewhere North of £25k a month for them, could be considered justifiable or ethical is another matter.

Just the norm way of modern charities today,
I could set up a charity for Donkeys, get thousands of people to pay direct debit £3 a month,
I then buy a big mansion with a few hectares of land, you then use a small bit of land then rescue a few Donkeys.
Get some volunteers to do the dirty work like cleaning them out etc, scrounge or beg for food and bedding and blankets.
Pay myself a fat cat wage and live happy in my mansion doing very little.

Thats modern charities for you.
vulcan558

Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby Brevet Cable on Tue 05 Dec 2017, 8:55 pm

cg_341 wrote:Image

Go on....gis a clue.....
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby MicrolightDriver on Tue 05 Dec 2017, 9:05 pm

vulcan558 wrote:I could set up a charity for Donkeys, get thousands of people to pay direct debit £3 a month,
I then buy a big mansion with a few hectares of land, you then use a small bit of land then rescue a few Donkeys.
Get some volunteers to do the dirty work like cleaning them out etc, scrounge or beg for food and bedding and blankets.
Pay myself a fat cat wage and live happy in my mansion doing very little.

Thats modern charities for you.


No you couldn't...and no it's not.
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby Xm657 on Tue 05 Dec 2017, 9:34 pm

It's an exaggeration but there is nothing untrue about what he is saying here MicrolightDriver. I do not believe VttST is wasting money through greed but I do believe money is being wasted. There clearly are paid employees but for what the Trust now is, even with HLF commitments, I dont see why any are needed.

However nothing of what is said here is going to make a blind bit of difference. The VttST are going to continue encouraging 558's fans to part with their cash for as long as it lasts. Just how many people will continue to want to buy Vulcan 607 books, old Smiths dials and novelty turbine blades is anyone's guess. I can't believe it's a growth market though - the revenue 558 can hope to make will decline gradually but the costs of maintaining her will not - they will probably rise.

The opportunity to have her safe at Bruntingthorpe has been lost. Millions of pounds were raised and wasted between 2015 and the end of 2016. Still more money has been raised in 2017 but nowhere near enough to actually give 558 a permanent home. The position now is critical, VttST are right to raise as much money as they can, but every penny should be spent or kept for 558's benefit. It's a charity and a trust for goodness sake not a retail business.

We can only hope that 558's fans can be patient and see out the current madness. Hopefully those still donating won't be disallusioned when they realise their money was fritted away and will continue to help 558 into the future. It remains my belief that 558 will eventually be better off without the VttST. Hopefully a group like the VRT or 655Maps emerges in Doncaster with the sole aim of preserving 558 rather than the aim of raising money through 558 to do various cold war related activities as seems to be the VttST agenda.
Xm657

Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby IgnatiusJReilly on Tue 05 Dec 2017, 10:20 pm

Xm657 wrote:We can only hope that 558's fans can be patient and see out the current madness. Hopefully those still donating won't be disallusioned when they realise their money was fritted away and will continue to help 558 into the future.


Reading the comments on the Facebook page, it's probably no exaggeration to say that one really cold snap this winter could decimate VTTS's fundraising ambitions...
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