Where has XH558 thread gone?

Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby JetMan on Tue 05 Dec 2017, 10:39 pm

Brevet Cable wrote:
cg_341 wrote:Image

Go on....gis a clue.....

I’m guessing the OP was referring to the items name (echo) and the fact that the same topics keep being discussed over and over in the same way...
JetMan

Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby MicrolightDriver on Tue 05 Dec 2017, 10:39 pm

Xm657 wrote:It's an exaggeration but there is nothing untrue about what he is saying here MicrolightDriver....


Well no, it was untrue - it was painting a picture of a totally inappropriate operating model, and implying that it's how 'modern charities' operate. Untrue.

What's being contended here is really just a value judgement, based on partial information. We don't know what the current costs are - who works there, exactly what they do, or exactly what they're paid - neither do we know what the current income is, so by definition we don't know if it's all being spent on 'wages'.

If VTTS were just 'presiding over a rotting hulk' for the long term then the case for paid staff would be very weak. It would be expensive to make everyone redundant of course, but the case would be there. But presiding over a 'rotting hulk' now or indefinitely is obviously not their intention.

The fact that certain people have written them off ( for the umpteenth time ) does not make it so. Frankly, as long as VTTS continues to draw breath, there will be those who yell and moan about something, so they might as well get on with it, and try to build for a future back in a hangar as a long term base. I certainly hope that the plans and actions underway at present will be to the eventual benefit of XH558.

As I've said before, despite all the fault finding, there doesn't seem to be anybody out there stepping forward with a better plan...
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MicrolightDriver

Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby JetMan on Tue 05 Dec 2017, 10:45 pm

Another fundraising method has been added for the XL388 team. They’ve created an eBay page and currently have their first items listed on there. Some special lots on there at the moment and more to come shortly. Www.ebay.co.uk/usr/Vulcan-XL388
JetMan

Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby Brevet Cable on Wed 06 Dec 2017, 3:32 am

MicrolightDriver wrote:As I've said before, despite all the fault finding, there doesn't seem to be anybody out there stepping forward with a better plan...

Webstore Manager, Admin Manager, Remote Stock Sales Manager, Admin Manager at Doncaster, Facilities Manager.
Combine some of these, thereby reducing it to : Sales Manager, Admin Manager ( responsible or both sites ), Facilities Manager .... so there's the cost of 2 salaries saved ( probably at least £60k PA )
Heck, you could probably bin the Facilities Manager and add that onto the Admin Manager's remit ( it's not as if there's a lot of 'facilities' to manage )....so that's reduced 5 posts down to 2, a potential saving of at least £90k PA.

Do they really need 2 Admin Assistants ?
Do they really need 2 Sales Assistants ?
Why not utilise volunteers more to fulfil some of those tasks ?


Now, who do I send the bill for my consultancy fee to ? :lol:
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby aviodromefriend on Wed 06 Dec 2017, 5:19 pm

Brevet Cable wrote:Now, who do I send the bill for my consultancy fee to ? :lol:
From http://www.vulcantothesky.org/faq-contact.html
General and all postal enquires to our Administrational offices.
Vulcan to the Sky Trust (Reg. Charity 1101948)
Unit 12,
Dunns Close,
Caldwell Road,
Nuneaton.
CV11 4NF.
From within the U.K. Tel: 02476 322 259
International callers: +44 2476 322 259
:grin:
A weather forecast is a forecast and just that

Mike Moses, Launch Integration Manager Space Shuttle Program
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby Xm657 on Wed 06 Dec 2017, 6:33 pm

MicrolightDriver wrote:
Xm657 wrote:It's an exaggeration but there is nothing untrue about what he is saying here MicrolightDriver....


Well no, it was untrue - it was painting a picture of a totally inappropriate operating model, and implying that it's how 'modern charities' operate. Untrue.

What's being contended here is really just a value judgement, based on partial information. We don't know what the current costs are - who works there, exactly what they do, or exactly what they're paid - neither do we know what the current income is, so by definition we don't know if it's all being spent on 'wages'.

If VTTS were just 'presiding over a rotting hulk' for the long term then the case for paid staff would be very weak. It would be expensive to make everyone redundant of course, but the case would be there. But presiding over a 'rotting hulk' now or indefinitely is obviously not their intention.

The fact that certain people have written them off ( for the umpteenth time ) does not make it so. Frankly, as long as VTTS continues to draw breath, there will be those who yell and moan about something, so they might as well get on with it, and try to build for a future back in a hangar as a long term base. I certainly hope that the plans and actions underway at present will be to the eventual benefit of XH558.

As I've said before, despite all the fault finding, there doesn't seem to be anybody out there stepping forward with a better plan...


I agree with you up to a point, and I can honestly say you make extremely sensible comments on here.

My concerns with the current approach is that it could lead to a lot of money being spent to achieve very little, as has so far been the case. That may not matter in the long run as long as Vulcan fans keep coming back to financially contribute - they certainly did when she was flying. I'm just troubled that money might be being blown chasing unachieveable goals, when something more modest could have been achieved that may not find the money again in the future. (The obvious example of this would have been a modest "shelter" at Bruntingthorpe, which was never explored but could have left everyone happy, but is now impossible).

There doesn't seem to be any alternative than to let VttST get on with whatever they want to do. Although I do think that if they were not there, and 558 was made available to the good people of Doncaster to look after on a volunteer basis, a group like the VRT/655Maps would organically emerge. Right now, it would take some sort of coup d'etat to wrestle 558 away from the VttTS, which I really dont think anyone is going to do.

Indeed, let's hope the new Hangar is built and it can afford to stay open for years to come, but if isn't or it can't, I'm not sure where that leaves us. Every last drop of money from every avenee will have been raised, 558 will be covered in "names", all the spares will have been flogged on ebay, bills runs up, and to this mess a volunteer group will have to pick up the pieces, which will be a big ask. Really though, whether its the VttTS or anyone else, it boils down to trying to make the best of Doncaster. Let hope that location doesnt continue to haunt the future of XH558.
Xm657

Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby Brevet Cable on Wed 06 Dec 2017, 9:07 pm

One of the problems, though, is that by their actions ( or should that be inactions ) VTST are continuing to alienate the very supporters that they relied on for years when it comes to fundraising/donating and volunteering.

It wouldn't take much for someone within VTST to address the valid concerns of the supporters, yet they've consistently failed to do so.
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby MicrolightDriver on Wed 06 Dec 2017, 10:05 pm

I think it's fair to say that the communications don't always meet everyone's expectations or needs, either in terms of content or timing. Equally though, they've never shied away from giving comprehensive 'no holds barred' interviews when they've been requested.

And please don't take this personally Brevet, but I do suspect that many demands for more information are about the desire to pore over ( and furiously reject ) every word and statement, rather than any genuine wish to understand the circumstances and support the effort.
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby Xm657 on Wed 06 Dec 2017, 10:08 pm

I'm not sure if they are too concerned about the people who have been disallusioned Brevit. It only seems to be a minority of aviation enthusiasts (many found on this forum!). The disallusioned enthusiasts are not enough to raise the sort of money they need to get her indoors. However there still appears to be an army of people right behind them. See the 1000s who paid to put their name on the wing recently.

I just don't know how long this army of fans will be around for though. The aviation enthusiasts were the ones standing watching her at Bruntingthorpe in the 90s at a time when many of the current fans hadn't ever heard of a Vulcan or assumed she was scrapped in 93. Will their interest last years after the memories of her flying days fade?

But as long as the VttST keeps their core fan base interested they should be fine. It's helped by the fact that this fan base doesn't have any other aviation interest, probably doesn't know 426 or 655 exist and believes everything Mr Pleming tells them as the only way. They must have calculated early on that loosing the "Bruntingthorpe brigade" wasn't going to hurt them!
Xm657

Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby Brevet Cable on Thu 07 Dec 2017, 11:13 am

MicrolightDriver wrote:....they've never shied away from giving comprehensive 'no holds barred' interviews when they've been requested.

:lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: ...... oh, hang on, you're being serious, are you !
They've done a handfull or less of interviews, and even the ones they've done have left out - or talked around - most of the concerns the supporters have.

And please don't take this personally Brevet, but I do suspect that many demands for more information are about the desire to pore over ( and furiously reject ) every word and statement, rather than any genuine wish to understand the circumstances and support the effort.

Aside from the posters on here, go on the VTTS forum and look at who are making those demands -- they're some of the few remaining long-term supporters who've put a lot of time and money into supporting XH558 over the years, but who have become increasingly disenchanted with VTST's behaviour, lack of transparency and continued silence since XH558 ceased flying.
The reason that they are the few remaining is because a heck of a lot of the long-term supporters stopped doing so once XH558 stopped flying & ended up at Doncaster.

XM657.....
The VTTS Club members were a reliable source of donations, not forgetting that the VTTS Club routinely donated upwards of £30k PA ( and more during the various Appeals )
That's a guaranteed income they aren't getting any more.
We won't have a clue what VTST's current income is until the Accounts are published next year, but I wonder how much they're missing that £30k+ ?
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby MicrolightDriver on Thu 07 Dec 2017, 11:25 am

Brevet Cable wrote:
MicrolightDriver wrote:....they've never shied away from giving comprehensive 'no holds barred' interviews when they've been requested.

:lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: ...... oh, hang on, you're being serious, are you !
They've done a handfull or less of interviews, and even the ones they've done have left out - or talked around - most of the concerns the supporters have.


I thought DanO's podcasts were highly regarded? He and I agree on very little, but he did ask people here what they wanted to know, and then asked Dr Pleming accordingly.
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby Full Flaps on Thu 07 Dec 2017, 1:47 pm

XM657.....
The VTTS Club members were a reliable source of donations, not forgetting that the VTTS Club routinely donated upwards of £30k PA ( and more during the various Appeals )
That's a guaranteed income they aren't getting any more.
We won't have a clue what VTST's current income is until the Accounts are published next year, but I wonder how much they're missing that £30k+ ?



You are forgetting the Founding Guardians Brevit, the continuation scheme of supporters once the Club disbanded. Their numbers multiplied by the £21 average yearly subscription fee they pay ought to have replaced that revenue.
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby Brevet Cable on Thu 07 Dec 2017, 3:06 pm

Nope, didn't forget them.
The Club was a separate entity with it's own fundraising schemes & shop, none of which exist any more.
The Club used to be open to anyone who wanted to join......as far as I know ( and I'm happy to be proved wrong ) there appears to be no way for anyone to join the 'Founding Guardians' scheme & there's no other scheme that I can see for new people to join.
As people don't renew their FG membership for various reasons, it'll become increasingly irrelevant in the fundraising stakes.
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby vulcan558 on Thu 07 Dec 2017, 3:24 pm

Not sure the Guardian's scheme is going very well, when the vtts took over the old 558 club and renamed it as the Guardian's, many did not move over.
with very little info coming out to the Guardian's via news letters and information, Not surprised.
Many have not been impressed and will guess many have not or will not renew memberships.
vulcan558

Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby MicrolightDriver on Thu 07 Dec 2017, 3:32 pm

Brevet Cable wrote:Nope, didn't forget them.
The Club was a separate entity with it's own fundraising schemes & shop, none of which exist any more.
The Club used to be open to anyone who wanted to join......as far as I know ( and I'm happy to be proved wrong ) there appears to be no way for anyone to join the 'Founding Guardians' scheme & there's no other scheme that I can see for new people to join.
As people don't renew their FG membership for various reasons, it'll become increasingly irrelevant in the fundraising stakes.


Not sure the new Guardians scheme is being actively promoted at present, but I think there is a way of joining up if you are so minded:-

For all enquiries regarding the Founding Guardians please contact our office - details below.

Please do not try to contact the Vulcan to the Sky Club office as it is now closed.

The Vulcan Marketing Company
Office: 12 Dunns Close Nuneaton, Warwickshire. CV11 4NF. United Kingdom.

Telephone 02476 322 259
Direct Line 02476 322 264
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby Brevet Cable on Thu 07 Dec 2017, 3:45 pm

:up:
Nothing at all about it on the VTTS website that I can find.
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby MicrolightDriver on Thu 07 Dec 2017, 3:53 pm

Brevet Cable wrote::up:
Nothing at all about it on the VTTS website that I can find.


I think the website needs a bit of a brush up. Not enough staff....

Anyway, you'll be familiar with the 'Forum' tab at the top right? :wink:

Try the tab which I think used to be the 'Club' tab ( now mistaken called 'Forum' as well ) in the 'top middle'.
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby Brevet Cable on Thu 07 Dec 2017, 4:14 pm

:up:

My link's set so it opens on the forum not the main page.
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby vulcan558 on Thu 07 Dec 2017, 4:48 pm

MicrolightDriver wrote:
Brevet Cable wrote::up:
Nothing at all about it on the VTTS website that I can find.


I think the website needs a bit of a brush up. Not enough staff....

Anyway, you'll be familiar with the 'Forum' tab at the top right? :wink:

Try the tab which I think used to be the 'Club' tab ( now mistaken called 'Forum' as well ) in the 'top middle'.

When was any information given out to the Guardians,
Was it way back in March. What do the Guardian's get for there hard earned.in the way of updates etc.
vulcan558

Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby MicrolightDriver on Thu 07 Dec 2017, 4:53 pm

Reading some of the comments on here, I'd say the (Founding) Guardians have been ahead of announcements ( probably only in a minor way ) on several occasions.

There's a monthly newsletter and a periodic glossy magazine at least - much like the old 'Club' I expect
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby Brevet Cable on Thu 07 Dec 2017, 5:02 pm

vulcan558 wrote:What do the Guardian's get for there hard earned.in the way of updates etc.

I've just asked that for you on the VTTS forum.
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby MicrolightDriver on Thu 07 Dec 2017, 5:59 pm

Brevet Cable wrote:
vulcan558 wrote:What do the Guardian's get for there hard earned.in the way of updates etc.

I've just asked that for you on the VTTS forum.


This was the original statement. Obviously you can count out the hangar stuff for the time being...

http://www.vulcantothesky.org/news/766/ ... -Club.html
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby vulcan558 on Thu 07 Dec 2017, 9:42 pm

MicrolightDriver wrote:
Brevet Cable wrote:
vulcan558 wrote:What do the Guardian's get for there hard earned.in the way of updates etc.

I've just asked that for you on the VTTS forum.


This was the original statement. Obviously you can count out the hangar stuff for the time being...

http://www.vulcantothesky.org/news/766/ ... -Club.html


So is that April 2016 the last newsletter for thd Guardians.?
vulcan558

Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby MicrolightDriver on Thu 07 Dec 2017, 9:48 pm

vulcan558 wrote:
MicrolightDriver wrote:
Brevet Cable wrote:
vulcan558 wrote:What do the Guardian's get for there hard earned.in the way of updates etc.

I've just asked that for you on the VTTS forum.


This was the original statement. Obviously you can count out the hangar stuff for the time being...

http://www.vulcantothesky.org/news/766/ ... -Club.html


So is that April 2016 the last newsletter for thd Guardians.?


No. As stated, that was just the original statement.

As also stated, Guardians get a monthly newsletter and periodically, a larger magazine.
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby Tommy on Thu 07 Dec 2017, 10:01 pm

I know that this is a discussion forum, and I don't want to sound insensitive, but honestly, there's a significant part of me that thinks it's time (or long overdue) for this discussion to be left quietly in the Forum boneyard.

I can't recall anything new of substance, just the same individuals and usernames and their pride going around in circles and circles. I seldom visit this thread these days because, in honesty, there's so much of the same crap to trudge through. The circularity of discussion in this thread has succeeded in making me utterly disinterested despite my best efforts in XH558.

I don't want to see this thread deleted - if something (of note!) happens to her at Donny, positive or negative, It'd be cool to see that discussed, but if the trudge and sludge of circular arguments continues, for the sake of the sanity of the silent majority, it might have to be.

Perhaps the "regulars" in this thread can just cool it?
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