Where has XH558 thread gone?

Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby st24 on Mon 18 Dec 2017, 1:14 pm

Well at least the old truck and fork lift have got some shelter!.... :facepalm:
You caaan't trust the system... Maaan!
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby DonaldGrump on Mon 18 Dec 2017, 4:47 pm

Jakspeed wrote:
speedbird2639 wrote:Is it just a trick of the foreshortening by the use of a long lens or do they appear to have some sort of scissor lift/ platform under the tail boom presumably in an attempt to prevent the aircraft tipping up on its tail in the event of heavy snowfall or strong winds?.


No long lens trickery here, these were taken through the fence on my iPhone 6!!! :wave:

Image

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Edited to add -
Image




What incredibly sad images, it is a tragedy that things have come to where they are. Pro or against VTS there can be no argument or excuses for this.
DonaldGrump

Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby capercaillie on Mon 18 Dec 2017, 5:24 pm

DonaldGrump wrote:What incredibly sad images, it is a tragedy that things have come to where they are. Pro or against VTS there can be no argument or excuses for this.


I know, Finningley used to be such an easy base to take photos, with lovely low wooden picket fences you could stand beside. Now ugly tall mesh, when will it end :sad:
"The surrogate voice of st24"
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby vulcan558 on Mon 18 Dec 2017, 5:49 pm

st24 wrote:Well at least the old truck and fork lift have got some shelter!.... :facepalm:

Think that old truck will be up for sale soon.
vulcan558

Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby IgnatiusJReilly on Mon 18 Dec 2017, 6:48 pm

Xm657 wrote:The sad thing is that it is the very people who still give them money, who no doubt think they are helping to preserve her, are probably signing her death warrant.


If we return to what Dr Bob said about the majority of their supporters not using social media, it's really no surprise that those people are still donating money in good faith with little or no idea as to what the situation actually is for XH558.
If all they know about the state of this project is what they read in the newsletters, then....

DoH - as to what the trust has said previously about having an investor lined up to pay for the hangar build...
It's a massive issue of trust and credibility for me that you'll never get a straight, unambiguous answer to a direct question from the VTTS. There's always a get-out or vagueness to every response. Never a clear cut answer.
Basically, they bet the farm on Doncaster, banking on a string of half promises without any firm commitments, believing that VTTS could overcome any obstacle placed in front of them.

Did anyone ever tot up how much money the trust has burned through since the end of flight?
Eccentric, idealistic, and creative, sometimes to the point of delusion..
IgnatiusJReilly

Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby borismorris on Mon 18 Dec 2017, 6:49 pm

vulcan558 wrote:
st24 wrote:Well at least the old truck and fork lift have got some shelter!.... :facepalm:

Think that old truck will be up for sale soon.

Think they should send it to Brunti.. :wink:
borismorris

Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby Marka1967 on Mon 18 Dec 2017, 7:21 pm

I think the sooner the trust folds and its assets given over to a purely volunteer run group the better. If people are still handing over money to them they need their heads looking at in my view. 558 is crying out to have a small dedicated group take her on with the airports support and I'm sure it would be successful you only have to look at the VRT and 655 MaPS.
Marka1967

Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby Xm657 on Mon 18 Dec 2017, 7:25 pm

IgnatiusJReilly wrote:Did anyone ever tot up how much money the trust has burned through since the end of flight?


From last years accounts it was revealed they had a turnoover of around £2 million and spent over £750,000 on wages. Their turnover since landing has all been money donated by Vulcan supporters either by visits to 558, special events or flogging the spare parts David Walton gave them for 558's upkeep. So I would estimate they have burnt through somewhere between £2 and £3 million since landing in 2015. Which is exactly how much they need to build a hangar!

If she had gone to Brunty or Elvington they wouldnt have been able to hold as many events/weddings etc but they wouldnt have had to pay anything for renting Hangar 3. So assuming planning permission would have been allowed at Bruntingthorpe (and we know David Walton wanted her back), the chances are she would be in a hangar of her own by now, with her future secure for decades. She would also have taxied for her adorning fans at least half a dozen times by now, keeping the memories of her power and presence alive and her fans keen for more.

Instead we have £millions wasted on paying people to do nothing or think of more ways to raise more money to waste on paying themselves. No money for a hangar, and even if one was built, no sustainable way of paying the rent for it. What an absolute mess, which could have been prevented if the arrogant fools in the VttST had only listened to the wishes of the public and had some common sense.
Last edited by Xm657 on Mon 18 Dec 2017, 7:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Xm657

Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby HeyfordDave111 on Mon 18 Dec 2017, 7:32 pm

Xm657 wrote:
IgnatiusJReilly wrote:Did anyone ever tot up how much money the trust has burned through since the end of flight?


From last years accounts it was revealed they had a turnoover of around £2 million and spent over £750,000 on wages. Their turnover since landing has all been money donated by Vulcan supporters either by visits to 558, special events or flogging the spare parts David Walton gave them for 558's upkeep. So I would estimate they have burnt through somewhere between £2 and £3 million since landing in 2015. Which is exactly how much they need to build a hangar!

If she has gone to Brunty or Elvington they wouldnt have been able to hold as many events/weddings etc but they wouldnt have had to pay anything for renting Hangar 3. So assuming planning permission would have been allowed at Bruntingthorpe (and we know David Walton wanted her back), the chances are, she would be in a hangar of her own by now with her future secure for decades. She would also have taxied for her adorning fans at least half a dozen times by now, keeping the memories of her power and presence alive and her fans keen for more.

Instead we have £millions wasted on paying people to do nothing or think or more ways to make more money to waste on paying themselves. No money for a hangar, and even if one was built, no sustainable way of paying the rent for it. What an absolute mess, which could have been prevented if the arrogant fools in the VttST had only listened to the wishes of the public and had some common sense.


You left it late mate........ but probably the best post on the subject this year! :worship:
Got to love Russianhardware
HeyfordDave111

Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby flashman8 on Mon 18 Dec 2017, 9:10 pm

I personally think that if 558 had gone to Elvington, with all the money raised since her final flight, they could have built a hangar on the concrete pan big enough to house XH558, XL231 and XV250.. :yahoo:
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby Xm657 on Tue 19 Dec 2017, 10:40 am

flashman8 wrote:I personally think that if 558 had gone to Elvington, with all the money raised since her final flight, they could have built a hangar on the concrete pan big enough to house XH558, XL231 and XV250.. :yahoo:


I agree.

The really depressing thing is, that even if by some miracle it was possible to relocate her to Bruntingthorpe or Elvington there is little or no chance of raising enough money to build a hangar now. The best chance 558 had was to capitalise on her fame with the wider general public and raise enough money towards the end of her flying career and just after it, to build her a permanent home. Instead the VttSewageT squandered the money on wages and grand plans that came to nothing. The amount of fundraising she can attract will reduce at a steady rate post flight until she is just another Vulcan of the many dotted around the country with as much hope as they have of ever building their own hangar. VttScrapheapT got it so wrong, I just hope 558 can survive at Doncaster in some way in the years ahead.
Xm657

Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby Stagger2 on Tue 19 Dec 2017, 11:25 am

Just check-out the Blackpool Vulcan demise for a 'Christmas Carol' moment! Highly likely to be 'Spirit of Great Britain' in the future??
A Christmas Carol by Charles Dickens: Stave 4: The Last of the Spirits
`I am in the presence of the Ghost of Christmas Yet To Come.' said Scrooge(aka.Dr Robert Pleming). The Spirit answered not, but pointed onward with its hand. `You are about to show me shadows of the things that have not happened, but will happen in the time before us,' Scrooge (aka.Dr Robert Pleming). pursued. `Is that so, Spirit.'
You betcha numbnuts!! :mad:
Merry Christmas. :snack:
Stagger2

Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby speedbird2639 on Tue 19 Dec 2017, 11:31 am

I am fully expecting 'plan B' to feature a very large bucket


I suspect it might do - but said bucket will be attached to the arm of a very angry 360 excavator!
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby bernarde on Tue 19 Dec 2017, 2:21 pm

VTTS have a office which is manned monday to friday in the back of hangar 3.. however no idea what its purpose is, they also have a shower which is out of use, with a note on the door of "cannot afford water". Seems 2excel have a sense of humor also. :ninja:
bernarde

Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby Dan O'Hagan on Tue 19 Dec 2017, 3:08 pm

bernarde wrote:VTTS have a office which is manned monday to friday in the back of hangar 3.. however no idea what its purpose is, they also have a shower which is out of use, with a note on the door of "cannot afford water". Seems 2excel have a sense of humor also. :ninja:


There's little doubt that VTTS are indeed a shower.
Dan O'Hagan

Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby Seahornet on Tue 19 Dec 2017, 8:07 pm

Dan O'Hagan wrote:
bernarde wrote:VTTS have a office which is manned monday to friday in the back of hangar 3.. however no idea what its purpose is, they also have a shower which is out of use, with a note on the door of "cannot afford water". Seems 2excel have a sense of humor also. :ninja:


There's little doubt that VTTS are indeed a shower.


And when a shower fails to perform....

...all you're left with, are drips... :whistle:
And as the smart ship grew,
In stature, grace and hue,
In shadowy silent distance grew the iceberg too....
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby sooty655 on Wed 20 Dec 2017, 11:01 am

Jakspeed wrote:
speedbird2639 wrote:Is it just a trick of the foreshortening by the use of a long lens or do they appear to have some sort of scissor lift/ platform under the tail boom presumably in an attempt to prevent the aircraft tipping up on its tail in the event of heavy snowfall or strong winds?.


No long lens trickery here, these were taken through the fence on my iPhone 6!!! :wave:

Image


There appears to be a Raiser positioned each side of the tail. It's bad practice to leave a Raiser "raised" (it lets the weather get at the hydraulic jack), and we know VttST wouldn't needlessly resort to bad practice, so I guess the justification is that they have been pre-positioned for access, presumably to remove snow from the wings.
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby Marka1967 on Wed 20 Dec 2017, 4:07 pm

sooty655 wrote:
Jakspeed wrote:
speedbird2639 wrote:Is it just a trick of the foreshortening by the use of a long lens or do they appear to have some sort of scissor lift/ platform under the tail boom presumably in an attempt to prevent the aircraft tipping up on its tail in the event of heavy snowfall or strong winds?.


No long lens trickery here, these were taken through the fence on my iPhone 6!!! :wave:

Image


There appears to be a Raiser positioned each side of the tail. It's bad practice to leave a Raiser "raised" (it lets the weather get at the hydraulic jack), and we know VttST wouldn't needlessly resort to bad practice, so I guess the justification is that they have been pre-positioned for access, presumably to remove snow from the wings.

You can see the jacks in place at the rear jacking points better than nothing I suppose.
Marka1967

Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby IgnatiusJReilly on Wed 20 Dec 2017, 4:28 pm

bernarde wrote:VTTS have a office which is manned monday to friday in the back of hangar 3.. however no idea what its purpose is, they also have a shower which is out of use, with a note on the door of "cannot afford water". Seems 2excel have a sense of humor also. :ninja:


Did the trust not 'inherit' three engineers when they took on the lease for Hangar 3...
I never really understood quite how or why they kept the engineers on when they gave up the lease, beyond that they were supposedly making a few quid out of contracting them on again.
I'm frankly surprised that the end client hasn't, by now, organised something a bit more efficient regarding those guys?
But there you go, every little bit helps pay the consultancy fees, I suppose.
Eccentric, idealistic, and creative, sometimes to the point of delusion..
IgnatiusJReilly

Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby Xm657 on Wed 20 Dec 2017, 6:31 pm

IgnatiusJReilly wrote:
bernarde wrote:VTTS have a office which is manned monday to friday in the back of hangar 3.. however no idea what its purpose is, they also have a shower which is out of use, with a note on the door of "cannot afford water". Seems 2excel have a sense of humor also. :ninja:


Did the trust not 'inherit' three engineers when they took on the lease for Hangar 3...
I never really understood quite how or why they kept the engineers on when they gave up the lease, beyond that they were supposedly making a few quid out of contracting them on again.
I'm frankly surprised that the end client hasn't, by now, organised something a bit more efficient regarding those guys?
But there you go, every little bit helps pay the consultancy fees, I suppose.


My understanding is that when they agreed to become the top level landlord of Hangar 3 they effectively TUPE'ed three staff from an existing business. As far as I can see these staff still work there and the business is still in existence. I would imagine these staff probably pay for themselves and may even make a slight profit for the Trust. And to be fair, when looking at the wage bill, these three are not consuming any of the charitable contributions so will skew the wage bill figures slightly. Presumably they do have a positive impact on the finance or they would have been let go with the Vulcan engineers who no longer had any work to do so couldn't be afforded any longer. It would be interesting to know more about this business and what these staff actually do.

I wonder if Mr Pleming has any regrets about taking on Hangar 3. At the time it fitted with the grand scheme of his ambitious classic jet restoration business, but the whole thing turned sour pretty quickly, as anyone with any any common sense would have expected!
Xm657

Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby bernarde on Thu 21 Dec 2017, 8:24 pm

Planning permission granted for the hangar at Doncaster. :facepalm:
bernarde

Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby Brevet Cable on Thu 21 Dec 2017, 8:49 pm

Why :facepalm: ...... or is that just your biased blinkered view shining through ?
It would be a :facepalm: if it hadn't been approved & it could still be a :facepalm: if they fail to raise the funds/get sponsors to have it built, but at least now there's a hope of getting the aircraft back under cover.
Brevet.. Meh !!
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby vulcan558 on Thu 21 Dec 2017, 10:24 pm

Thats the easy bit, done.
Now they have to get 2 or 3 million to build and furnish it, and also pay rent and wages.
What you have to look at is they have spent that amount already since last flight,
And they could not keep a rented roof over 558s head.

Give it 12 months.
vulcan558

Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby IgnatiusJReilly on Thu 21 Dec 2017, 11:20 pm

Clearly no surprise to anyone that they got permission.
& now for the inevitable.
After the names on a wing campaign, I've no doubt that donations will flood in at a surprising rate.

The facebook feed will make interesting reading, if nothing else.
Eccentric, idealistic, and creative, sometimes to the point of delusion..
IgnatiusJReilly

Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby Brevet Cable on Fri 22 Dec 2017, 6:07 am

A few pages back, the 'Founding Guardians' scheme was mentioned.
Having a look on the VTTS forum, I saw the following ( from May this year)...
There were somewhere around 2,200 Club Members who joined the 'FG' scheme when the VTTS Club was binned -- that's less than half the people who were Club Members at the time.
Some have left since then, others on the Forum are saying they'll not be renewing their membership.
If the membership's still £21, that's a total income of just over £46k ...... not a lot compared to what the Club Membership and the various fundraising schemes & Club shop used to bring in.
You could say that it probably pays less than 2 peoples' wages. :whistle: :lol:
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