Potw is this dead?

Potw is this dead?

Postby aknott68 on Tue 31 Oct 2017, 3:25 pm

Seen the same image of a Seafire on this link for a while now, clue is in the name in my view in that shouldn't this resource be updated weekly....
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Re: Potw is this dead?

Postby boff180 on Tue 31 Oct 2017, 3:31 pm

We're just a bit tardy with them that's all there are 3 weeks worth currently in production :smile:, we're all busy in our own lives at the moment.
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Re: Potw is this dead?

Postby aknott68 on Tue 31 Oct 2017, 4:50 pm

Perhaps rename it to picture of the month so as to give the leeway to catch up with other day today tasks...
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Re: Potw is this dead?

Postby LN Strike Eagle on Wed 01 Nov 2017, 4:44 pm

There's four weeks worth prepared, but it's becoming more and more of a chore - it seems there's no longer much enthusiasm for the feature, so I might just call time on it at the end of 2017.

The other problem we're having with it is that photo posts have dropped off so notably that more often than I'd like, we're struggling to find seven images to select. It's always been a feature the focussed on quality and I won't compromise on that, but when we started it, some weeks we'd have had enough good stuff posted to fill the page twice over. No longer.
"You really are an oafish philistine at times!"
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Re: Potw is this dead?

Postby Ian G on Wed 01 Nov 2017, 5:51 pm

I'd like to add that I've been very happy to have been selected a few times for POTW so I would miss it if it went. I post image to share with other members and not solely for potw but it's a nice added bonus when messages have come out of the blue from UKAR staff and I've felt quite proud to have an image selected that's good enough for potw. More than happy for you to use 6 of mine to fill it up if you're struggling :tongue:
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Re: Potw is this dead?

Postby aknott68 on Thu 09 Nov 2017, 5:31 am

Ln strike eagle thanks for the response.

My observation has been that in general there seem to have been an overall reduction in interesting topics being posted to this forum not just photo posts, and that instead there seems to be alot of lengthy public 'arguments' between members.

I don't know if you have done any analysis as to why the content may have dropped off but I hope that this trend reverses because I have found this forum very interesting in the past with many people who are able to constructively put forward different points of view and some great photos and it would be a shame if this forum just withered and died.
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Re: Potw is this dead?

Postby Tommy on Thu 09 Nov 2017, 6:47 am

Points duly noted, but I suppose the other thing to remember is that it’s the “off season”. Other than a nightshoot here and practice displays there, this is traditionally the quietest part of the year for the airshow community, and accordingly, as there’s not much happening, there’s not as much to discuss.

But, you know, forums are what you make them. There’s nothing stopping you from starting your own discussion on something you’d like to talk about. The floor is all yours! :up:
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Re: Potw is this dead?

Postby Berf on Thu 09 Nov 2017, 8:23 am

While I would agree the floor is yours it should also be the role of 'an editor' or in this case perhaps UKAR staff to kick off debate and topics. Some do some don't. People are generally apathetic but are more likely to join in once something has started maybe more questions for polls to engage (for example which of these aircraft ... would you most like to see taken out of the museum at Cosford next year.)

As for POTW, removing it is not likely to encourage more pictures on the site or more engagement - the reverse in fact. If anyone finds it a chore they are not the right person for the job. Why not approach one of the groups that organise photoshoots to offer a place on a shoot as a prize in return for some advertising. Winners of the POTW go into the monthly prize competition or along those lines or some form of points system for entrants that culminates in a prize.
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Re: Potw is this dead?

Postby Brevet Cable on Thu 09 Nov 2017, 8:56 am

How much has the number of photos being posted been affected by Photobucket's antics, though?

Berf wrote:Why not approach one of the groups that organise photoshoots to offer a place on a shoot as a prize in return for some advertising. Winners of the POTW go into the monthly prize competition or along those lines or some form of points system for entrants that culminates in a prize.

Or even something as simple as the winner getting a framed picture of their photo?
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Re: Potw is this dead?

Postby Tommy on Thu 09 Nov 2017, 9:58 am

Berf wrote:While I would agree the floor is yours it should also be the role of 'an editor' or in this case perhaps UKAR staff to kick off debate and topics. Some do some don't. People are generally apathetic but are more likely to join in once something has started maybe more questions for polls to engage (for example which of these aircraft ... would you most like to see taken out of the museum at Cosford next year.)


Yeah that's fair; I started one just a couple of days ago: viewtopic.php?f=27&t=79430

It's probably a misnomer to call all of us with red usernames "Editors" in the forum context - remember our role is twofold, yeah of course we manage the forum as best we can and try and keep order on here (a considerable amount of the work is behind the scenes), but we also run the website, so we're thinking about content that is worthwhile reading, producing reviews, POTW, organising competitions for you lot to have the chance of winning stuff, planning what needs to happen from whom in the next year, (trying!) to keep our social media accounts current, up to date, and worthy of people's attention etc. In that sense, our role is the same as other sites that provide written content (every bloke and his dog seems to have their own "review" website these days, some excellent, some utterly dreadful).

I hasten to add that it's a pleasure to do all of that stuff, but the forum is also about you guys. Of course those of us with red usernames should get mucked-in with discussions and posting photos, and giving our own thoughts and opinions, but to do that too much of that feels like its forced and unnatural.

And, as much as anything else, it's sometimes just nice to sit back and read what other people think. My own opinion is boring as hell to me, but I love reading those of others.
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Re: Potw is this dead?

Postby Dan O'Hagan on Thu 09 Nov 2017, 10:44 am

UKAR needs a huge reboot, that much is obvious.

These days Twitter, Facebook , Flickr and Instagram have stolen the thunder from forums, especially when it comes to spreading news, posting pictures and getting comments on photographs. UKAR's no different to many other forums in losing traffic to social media, but what UKAR has lost is an identity.

Back a few years and UKAR had a distinct style, voice and irreverance. It wasn't unafraid of being critical, "out there" or ballsy. Plenty didn't like it for that, but an awful lot did. UKAR Staff members were hand-picked for their abilities, either as writers, photographers or for their web skills. Mike Hall, Steve Buckby etc. Respected blokes on the airshow scence. They were also prolific posters who were well-known within the hobby on fencelines and at bases. There were faces behind the usernames. Now, there's none of that. Some Staff members barely post at all. If you want a red username, you need to show some evidence of working for it - and actually being a part of the community.

The quality of UKAR's written output is now way, way behind sites like the excellent Vintage Aviation Echo. Yes Elliott and Huw's writing style might not be to everyone's tastes (personally I find it a *little* florid on occasion), but they write like nobody else does in the hobby. A distinct and different voice. Something UKAR has lost. UKAR reviews now tend to fall into that dreadful trap of a primary school "my day out" essay and often do little more than list the participants with nods to the weather conditions, commentary and showground. This is boring. Desperately boring. Where is the critical thought, the insight, the quotes from organisers and participants? Where's the sign that the person writing it actually cares and has deliberately made time to write the article, instead of feeling duty-bound because their name is in red?

And UKAR is far, far too close to certain shows and organisers these days. It has become, at times, precisely what UKAR mocked GAR for. "Operation Access". Some of the posts in the RIAT forum might as well have been written by the DBH press team themselves. The same goes for Cosford. UKAR was best as an outsider, the voice of the paying punter - hence why it used to be the case that press passes were never asked for.

There is some talent on the current UKAR Staff team, no question, but there is also a lot of chaff that needs cutting away. Standards need to be raised, and it needs to be realised that the problems run much deeper than people not being arsed to write a few captions for POTW.

For what it's worth, scrap POTW in its current format. Move to a monthly selection of say, five images that the general membership gets to vote on. Less work for the Staff team and more interactivity with the punters. Not exactly rocket science?
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Re: Potw is this dead?

Postby boff180 on Thu 09 Nov 2017, 11:16 am

It was sad that we did lose so many of the original staffers, if I recall correctly, all because of a certain now ex-staffers attitude at the time...

Tell me, when and which shows has UKAR asked for press passes to in the UK? I would honestly like to know....
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Re: Potw is this dead?

Postby Tommy on Thu 09 Nov 2017, 11:18 am

Dan O'Hagan wrote:Back a few years and UKAR had a distinct style, voice and irreverance. It wasn't unafraid of being critical, "out there" or ballsy. Plenty didn't like it for that, but an awful lot did. UKAR Staff members were hand-picked for their abilities, either as writers, photographers or for their web skills. Mike Hall, Steve Buckby etc. Respected blokes on the airshow scence.


I speak only my own opinion here, Dan, and I caveat this by saying that I think you speak a lot of sense on a lot of things, and I agree with a lot of what you say, but you always frame it with such venom, such vitriol, speaking objectively I consider your attitude towards others in the hobby did (and does) far more to damage UKAR's reputation than a perceived lower standard of writing here ever does or could do. You're better than that, and if you just considered others with more respect and integrity, far more would listen and engage with you. "Ballsy", "out-there" or "critical" doesn't necessitate being so for the sake of it.

UKAR has lost a lot of contributors because of the negativity this place portrays. That's all I ever hear on the fence, or at airshows. I miss TonyO's posts on here whom, if I remember correctly, left during your tenure.

You say there's talent on here, if that's what you think then that's great - encourage it, praise it, nurture it. It's possible that I have missed many of your posts, but I can't recall the last time I saw positive comments from you. If you like what you see is written, or photographed, call it out. If there are good points, then say so. Maybe others will think "X's style of writing is getting praise, from DanO no less, and mine is getting none. Maybe I should write more like that."

We're not all journalists like you, Dan, forensically analysing a show in a way that engages with punters is a bloody difficult game, which is why the good writers in this hobby are diamonds amongst a sea of coal. It's second nature to you. It's utterly foreign to everyone else. Try encouraging it.

And, if we're looking at popularity, and if I'm going to be bleak, sometimes I find myself deeply concerned that written and photographic standards don't seem matter anymore. Blurred and poorly composed shots of utter mundanity have a monstrous amount of success on social media, whilst great photographers (and magazine editors) like Rich Cooper barely get a foot in. More people are interested in yet more dark underside shots of an unmarked Typhoon in October than they are with Jamie Hunter's latest offering. Likewise a carefully-written and prepared piece can go completely under the radar, whilst a feature that verbatim copies Wikipedia can reach an audience of thousands.

And finally, turning to social media, yeah it's the way things are going, and I'm none to happy about it, but some consider that UKAR's social media is hardly a slouch when compared to other sites at the moment. Whilst I hate comparing UKAR to other sites (they have their own thing and we have ours), if we're looking at this in the way you are, then we have to.

Can't really speak for RIAT, but on the Cosford front, we've never to my knowledge requested or accepted a press-pass from the team for the airshow. Indeed, (and I don't really like saying this), but when I reviewed the show in 2015, I was offered a press-pass, and I expressly turned it down. I wanted to see if their promises of improved traffic came through or not, and I told them so when I rejected it.

So yeah, overall you're probably right as per, but everyone is much more inclined to give you time of day if you just be pleasant to people. And maybe remove the rose-tinted spectacles - the future ain't what it used to be and we're not in those days where social media didn't mean much.
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Re: Potw is this dead?

Postby Dan O'Hagan on Thu 09 Nov 2017, 11:41 am

boff180 wrote:It was sad that we did lose so many of the original staffers, if I recall correctly, all because of a certain now ex-staffers attitude at the time...

Tell me, when and which shows has UKAR asked for press passes to in the UK? I would honestly like to know....


Not a show, but you personally got airside access at the "Three Sisters" event at Waddington under UKAR's name did you not?

And where's the published article?
Dan O'Hagan

Re: Potw is this dead?

Postby boff180 on Thu 09 Nov 2017, 12:00 pm

So to clarify, you admit that the claim you have made about UKAR asking for press access to UK airshows is false?

Photo-calls are different entities as you know full well. On that occasion the day resulted in not enough content to produce an article other than a "this happened and that happen then that happened" which was deemed unsuitable. If those offering a special event (albeit they allowed the public in for safety reasons at three sisters) then don't provide the opportunity to produce a detailed angle/report, it's unfortunate. The images however were used for other UKAR content later in the year so didn't go to waste.
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Re: Potw is this dead?

Postby disgruntled on Thu 09 Nov 2017, 12:10 pm

Tommy makes some excellent points and not just because they mirror my personal thinking. Talk of professionalism and standards should be a two way thing. Where Dan berates contributors for being too cosy towards organisers and displays it could be argued that petty nit-picking and holier than though contributions made simply to push a personal agenda are equally as damaging to the forum. One particular review last year stands out where the author took the opportunity to "bash" a well known commentator for his mundane flying display in a vintage aircraft whilst only a few weeks earlier berating other display pilots for showing off and being reckless. There is nothing that devalues a review more than pushing a personal agenda or vendetta.
Criticism is often regarded as needing to always be negative, however as an experienced coach in the workplace and on the sports field I find that, as Tommy suggested, positive criticism carries far more weight and will achieve far better and longer lasting results.
disgruntled

Re: Potw is this dead?

Postby zigzag on Thu 09 Nov 2017, 12:45 pm

Great post Tommy :win:


Tommy wrote:sometimes I find myself deeply concerned that written and photographic standards don't seem matter anymore. Blurred and poorly composed shots of utter mundanity have a monstrous amount of success


With photography being my main area of interest this has cropped up in discussions with others recently, there does seem to have been a marked drop in photographic standards recently
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Re: Potw is this dead?

Postby Dan O'Hagan on Thu 09 Nov 2017, 12:53 pm

boff180 wrote:So to clarify, you admit that the claim you have made about UKAR asking for press access to UK airshows is false?

Photo-calls are different entities as you know full well. On that occasion the day resulted in not enough content to produce an article other than a "this happened and that happen then that happened" which was deemed unsuitable. If those offering a special event (albeit they allowed the public in for safety reasons at three sisters) then don't provide the opportunity to produce a detailed angle/report, it's unfortunate. The images however were used for other UKAR content later in the year so didn't go to waste.


Blimey, Andy. "Not enough content"? You had a Vulcan and two Lancasters to play with, people to chat to, punters to vox-pop on the crowdline - when you have media access you make damn sure you MAKE enough content. Even an illustrated opinion piece would be something!

Genuinely, I'm not singling you out - you are one of the better and more gifted photographers and writers among the current amorphous mass that makes up Staff. Shake the place up, shape up those who can contribute and ship out those who can't - or won't.

A red username should be more than just a badge of honour, it should be a sign of someone who pulls their weight and contributes to the required level.
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Re: Potw is this dead?

Postby XR219 on Thu 09 Nov 2017, 1:12 pm

In Boff180's defence, it was only a non-standard, show pony Vulcan...
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Re: Potw is this dead?

Postby Pringles on Thu 09 Nov 2017, 7:08 pm

Dan O'Hagan wrote:
boff180 wrote:So to clarify, you admit that the claim you have made about UKAR asking for press access to UK airshows is false?

Photo-calls are different entities as you know full well. On that occasion the day resulted in not enough content to produce an article other than a "this happened and that happen then that happened" which was deemed unsuitable. If those offering a special event (albeit they allowed the public in for safety reasons at three sisters) then don't provide the opportunity to produce a detailed angle/report, it's unfortunate. The images however were used for other UKAR content later in the year so didn't go to waste.


Blimey, Andy. "Not enough content"? You had a Vulcan and two Lancasters to play with, people to chat to, punters to vox-pop on the crowdline - when you have media access you make damn sure you MAKE enough content. Even an illustrated opinion piece would be something!

Genuinely, I'm not singling you out - you are one of the better and more gifted photographers and writers among the current amorphous mass that makes up Staff. Shake the place up, shape up those who can contribute and ship out those who can't - or won't.

A red username should be more than just a badge of honour, it should be a sign of someone who pulls their weight and contributes to the required level.

Any sign of that report from the F35 visit to Lakenheath back in, what, April? May? I recall the UKAR twitter feed suggested someone had access onsite?
If life gives you melons then you're probably dyslexic
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Re: Potw is this dead?

Postby boff180 on Thu 09 Nov 2017, 11:34 pm

Pringles wrote:Any sign of that report from the F35 visit to Lakenheath back in, what, April? May? I recall the UKAR twitter feed suggested someone had access onsite?


No-one attending was allowed to interview anyone despite requests (which were made in advance), there were no briefings and of the 5 F-35's we saw... we were stopped from photographing 1 when we arrived at last chance and the remaining 4 were only captured during departure. We were then asked to leave the base once our images were vetted.

Disappointing considering the access to pilots and senior officers (both USAF and RAF) for interviews allowed during the 2016 F-22 deployment.

As for the three sisters event, if the individual making the comments had attended the media event and experienced what access had been provided that day then their comments would carry some validity but as they weren't.....

Andy
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Re: Potw is this dead?

Postby Pringles on Thu 09 Nov 2017, 11:45 pm

Thanks for clearing that up Andy, sounds like an odd set up?
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