Another Hunter ruined..

Re: Another Hunter ruined..

Postby wv383 on Tue 12 Dec 2017, 4:44 pm

Spotty_Jag wrote:From my knowledge of the CAA regulations, I believed it was the case that if you wanted to gain an exception to not display the G- registration it must be a historically accurate colour scheme, correct for the aircraft type in question..? :dunno:


This Hunter is going to France for static display so I don't think that will apply.
wv383

Re: Another Hunter ruined..

Postby st24 on Tue 12 Dec 2017, 8:44 pm

wv383 wrote:
Spotty_Jag wrote:From my knowledge of the CAA regulations, I believed it was the case that if you wanted to gain an exception to not display the G- registration it must be a historically accurate colour scheme, correct for the aircraft type in question..? :dunno:


This Hunter is going to France for static display so I don't think that will apply.


Perhaps the best place for it... They don't know any better over there :wave:
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Re: Another Hunter ruined..

Postby Marathon Milkshake on Wed 13 Dec 2017, 10:36 am

st24 wrote:
Perhaps the best place for it... They don't know any better over there :wave:


One day in the not too distant future someone will start a thread with the title "Where have all our Hunters gone?" Our aviation heritage is slowly but surely being moved overseas or its sat on some airfield waiting to be scrapped.
Marathon Milkshake

Re: Another Hunter ruined..

Postby effects on Wed 13 Dec 2017, 11:58 am

Did 8Sqn RAFO have hunters? Possibly causing this mistake.
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Re: Another Hunter ruined..

Postby Alanko on Wed 13 Dec 2017, 12:57 pm

With such a histrionic thread title I thought perhaps that another Hunter had crashed somewhere. This Hunter, in a slightly iffy scheme, is still better than a Hunter in a skip. It might not be a perfect scheme but, ignoring the colours, it is a freshly repainted Hunter that will withstand the weather for a while longer. I'm sure there are some cosmetically rough Hunters out there waiting a "proper" repaint if you fancy a challenge?

This complete lack of seeing the forest for the trees seems to be pervasive in UK historic aviation circles. That fastidious, anally retentive and rivet-counting need for the paintwork to be 100% authentic is ridiculous. All the while a Shackleton rots where it stands at Long Marston, several large collections (Strathallan, Southend, Wales Aircraft Museum) have vanished since the early '80s and historic fast jet flying, which was dying in the UK before Shoreham, has all but gone (a few JPs and Gnats are not the same as a few Canberras, Hunters, Meteors). VTTS show that even the 'professionals' have only a limited business brain, and lack of creativity, between them.

But you have to get the colours right!
Alanko

Re: Another Hunter ruined..

Postby st24 on Wed 13 Dec 2017, 8:55 pm

effects wrote:Did 8Sqn RAFO have hunters? Possibly causing this mistake.

Not as far as I can find out, in fact I can't find a RAFO 8Sqn, either way it's wearing the characteristic roundel bars of RAF 8 Sqn.

Alanko wrote:With such a histrionic thread title I thought perhaps that another Hunter had crashed somewhere. This Hunter, in a slightly iffy scheme, is still better than a Hunter in a skip. It might not be a perfect scheme but, ignoring the colours, it is a freshly repainted Hunter that will withstand the weather for a while longer. I'm sure there are some cosmetically rough Hunters out there waiting a "proper" repaint if you fancy a challenge?

This complete lack of seeing the forest for the trees seems to be pervasive in UK historic aviation circles. That fastidious, anally retentive and rivet-counting need for the paintwork to be 100% authentic is ridiculous. All the while a Shackleton rots where it stands at Long Marston, several large collections (Strathallan, Southend, Wales Aircraft Museum) have vanished since the early '80s and historic fast jet flying, which was dying in the UK before Shoreham, has all but gone (a few JPs and Gnats are not the same as a few Canberras, Hunters, Meteors). VTTS show that even the 'professionals' have only a limited business brain, and lack of creativity, between them.

But you have to get the colours right!

Histrionic - I like that, first use on UKAR?? :dunno: Perhaps a little OTT but why on earth would you link "ruined" with "crashed"?? If a Hunter had crashed I would probably of not even posted- the less air time the better on that score.
I get completely where you're coming from I really do though I fail to see the connection between me having a moan about people spending thousands of pounds to get a dud job and the closure of several aviation museums.. :confused: Was the vintage jet scene dying pre-Shoreham - 2 Canberras, 2 Meteors, 3/4?Hunters, F-86, Vampires, Venoms, Sea Vixen, Vulcan along with aforementioned Gnats, JPs and Strikemasters would suggest to me no.
Why shouldn't stuff be painted 100% accurate? As I've said many times before if you can afford to do it why nearly get it right, even down to daft things like using completely the wrong font for serial numbers. Okay XL612 has been painted in nice shiny colours to preserve it, but what exactly is it preserving? - An accurate replica of one of Hawkers finest? A true memorial to a cold war warrior that saw active service in the mid-East and during it's test career contributed to pilot and aircraft safety and development? Or a meaningless half a job that might as well be painted gloss pink with star and bars all over it...
But at least it will stand the weather for a few years.. :facepalm:
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Re: Another Hunter ruined..

Postby Jumbo on Wed 13 Dec 2017, 10:17 pm

st24 wrote: Was the vintage jet scene dying pre-Shoreham - 2 Canberras, 2 Meteors, 3/4?Hunters, F-86, Vampires, Venoms, Sea Vixen, Vulcan along with aforementioned Gnats, JPs and Strikemasters would suggest to me no.

hmmm.... well there were no Canberras flying in the 2015 season before shoreham, the F-86 had gone to the USA, the vulcan was already due to stop flying and according to the owner of the Classic air force they were planning to close at the end of the 2015 season even before shoreham so yes the jet scene was dying, and had been since around 2010 (there was a good article on why the jet scene died in Aeroplane magazine a few months ago).

Also its a bit of a jump to go from a genuine RAF camouflage pattern to gloss pink with stars and bars...
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Re: Another Hunter ruined..

Postby cg_341 on Wed 13 Dec 2017, 10:34 pm

What genuine RAF camoflage patter, where?
cg_341

Re: Another Hunter ruined..

Postby Wrexham Mackem on Wed 13 Dec 2017, 10:40 pm

st24 wrote:Why shouldn't stuff be painted 100% accurate? ..


This. If the job's worth doing, its worth doing well. In this case, they've gone to a huge amount of effort and expense and produced something which is in pretty bad taste. For the same amount of effort and expense we could have all been admiring a lovely job. What a waste.
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Re: Another Hunter ruined..

Postby GertrudetheMerciless on Wed 13 Dec 2017, 10:51 pm

Brevet Cable wrote:They could always have left it rotting away in Swansea, I suppose....


I think some would genuinely prefer the correct markings yet rotting scenario. :roll:
GertrudetheMerciless

Re: Another Hunter ruined..

Postby Wrexham Mackem on Wed 13 Dec 2017, 10:56 pm

GertrudetheMerciless wrote:
Brevet Cable wrote:They could always have left it rotting away in Swansea, I suppose....


I think some would genuinely prefer the correct markings yet rotting scenario. :roll:


I disagree - you've missed the point. Those aren't the alternatives up for debate. The point is that a great deal of time and money has been spent on this airframe, yet a rather silly end result has been produced when an authentic one was perfectly feasible, with similar resources.
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Re: Another Hunter ruined..

Postby st24 on Wed 13 Dec 2017, 11:04 pm

Jumbo wrote:
st24 wrote: Was the vintage jet scene dying pre-Shoreham - 2 Canberras, 2 Meteors, 3/4?Hunters, F-86, Vampires, Venoms, Sea Vixen, Vulcan along with aforementioned Gnats, JPs and Strikemasters would suggest to me no.

hmmm.... well there were no Canberras flying in the 2015 season before shoreham, the F-86 had gone to the USA, the vulcan was already due to stop flying and according to the owner of the Classic air force they were planning to close at the end of the 2015 season even before shoreham so yes the jet scene was dying, and had been since around 2010 (there was a good article on why the jet scene died in Aeroplane magazine a few months ago).

Also its a bit of a jump to go from a genuine RAF camouflage pattern to gloss pink with stars and bars...


Well yes but I didn't stipulate how long "pre-Shoreham" - that could be any time from 1978/9 (when G-HUNT appeared on the scene - from memory the first true "vintage jet") to midday-ish on 22 August 2015.

As for the pattern, yep the pattern isn't far off but...

GertrudetheMerciless wrote:
Brevet Cable wrote:They could always have left it rotting away in Swansea, I suppose....


I think some would genuinely prefer the correct markings yet rotting scenario. :roll:


Some would actually prefer just to see a decent job for a decent fee paid.. :roll:
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Re: Another Hunter ruined..

Postby qwerty on Thu 14 Dec 2017, 8:38 am

The basic schemes used by the military are designed for a reason but even in service there are many departures for display and celebrations. Why should a not that rare example be singled out for debate? If on the other hand if it is a scrapping of a rare airframe then that is a concern.
qwerty

Re: Another Hunter ruined..

Postby jalfrezi on Thu 14 Dec 2017, 9:14 am

I personally think this whole thing is a storm in a teacup, yes it's a shame that the owner chose a make believe scheme, but we see it with other types sometimes, and with Buchon's all the time! I also hear the argument that a lot of time and money has been spent on this - but it's not our money, our time, or our aircraft, so surely it's up to the owner how they choose to paint THEIR aircraft?

We don't know how long it will be in this scheme, or when it will be repainted; but at least it's preserved, which is in my opinion far more important.
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Re: Another Hunter ruined..

Postby jaguar54 on Thu 14 Dec 2017, 9:17 am

I would rather see an odd coloured camo Hunter flying than a correct camo Hunter Static.
jaguar54

Re: Another Hunter ruined..

Postby Brevet Cable on Thu 14 Dec 2017, 9:27 am

st24 wrote:Some would actually prefer just to see a decent job for a decent fee paid.. :roll:

Unless it's changed over the last few years, you do know who reportedly owns XL612 ?

And by all accounts XL612 did serve with 8 Sqn :
http://radfanhunters.co.uk/NoddyH.htm
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Re: Another Hunter ruined..

Postby Berf on Thu 14 Dec 2017, 9:58 am

I just hate the yellow and black stripy thing from Switzerland, appalling, should be broken up immediately.
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Re: Another Hunter ruined..

Postby Craig on Thu 14 Dec 2017, 10:43 am

8 sqn RAF operated Hunters in the Far East, pretty sure that'll be where the inspiration for the scheme came from. Does nothing for me but then it's not my Hunter so I doubt the owner would care (and quite right too). There's plenty preserved in genuine schemes this really isn't an issue as far as I'm concerned.
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Re: Another Hunter ruined..

Postby Stagger2 on Thu 14 Dec 2017, 11:27 am

Brevet Cable wrote:
st24 wrote:Some would actually prefer just to see a decent job for a decent fee paid.. :roll:

Unless it's changed over the last few years, you do know who reportedly owns XL612 ?

And by all accounts XL612 did serve with 8 Sqn :
http://radfanhunters.co.uk/NoddyH.htm

Who owns XL612 then? I don't know, or why it's particularly significant to this debate?
On the subject of Radfan, it's ironic that the Shackleton aircraft that #8 Sqn would latterly operate, were there 'bombing' the troublesome locals into submission alongside the Hunter Air to Ground offensive!
The Yellow/ Blue/Red bars of the 8 Sqn crest being representative of the Sand/Sky/ Blood associated with operations within the sandy places.
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Re: Another Hunter ruined..

Postby Brevet Cable on Thu 14 Dec 2017, 11:39 am

Stagger2 wrote: Who owns XL612 then? I don't know, or why it's particularly significant to this debate?

Don't know if it's been confirmed anywhere, but the owners are reportedy John & Nadine Sparks.
In case you're wondering who they are, they're the directors/owners of HAS ( although XL612 is kept as a separate entity to HAS )
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Re: Another Hunter ruined..

Postby st24 on Thu 14 Dec 2017, 2:51 pm

Berf wrote:I just hate the yellow and black stripy thing from Switzerland, appalling, should be broken up immediately.

If that's the attitude you think I'm trying to insight then you haven't understood me at all, but you're not alone! Not broken up, but it needs repainting...

Craig wrote:8 sqn RAF operated Hunters in the Far East, pretty sure that'll be where the inspiration for the scheme came from. Does nothing for me but then it's not my Hunter so I doubt the owner would care (and quite right too). There's plenty preserved in genuine schemes this really isn't an issue as far as I'm concerned.

Indeed, this actual machine served there as per the photo I posted. Inspiration yes, accuracy absolutely not. I don't know where people get the notion that there are seemingly "plenty" of preserved Hunters in accurate schemes- there's not.

Stagger2 wrote:
Brevet Cable wrote:
st24 wrote:Some would actually prefer just to see a decent job for a decent fee paid.. :roll:

Unless it's changed over the last few years, you do know who reportedly owns XL612 ?

And by all accounts XL612 did serve with 8 Sqn :
http://radfanhunters.co.uk/NoddyH.htm

Who owns XL612 then? I don't know, or why it's particularly significant to this debate?
On the subject of Radfan, it's ironic that the Shackleton aircraft that #8 Sqn would latterly operate, were there 'bombing' the troublesome locals into submission alongside the Hunter Air to Ground offensive!
The Yellow/ Blue/Red bars of the 8 Sqn crest being representative of the Sand/Sky/ Blood associated with operations within the sandy places.

Absolutely - why should it matter who owns it, they obviously have a lot of spare cash and good luck to them, just if it was my money I'd have wanted a better end product. Just saying...
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st24

Re: Another Hunter ruined..

Postby Brevet Cable on Thu 14 Dec 2017, 3:10 pm

Because your post I replied to said
Some would actually prefer just to see a decent job for a decent fee paid.

The aircraft is owned by the people who own HAS....HAS are the ones who did the work & repaint on XL612.....unless it's a 'paperwork payment', chances are it didn't cost them anything.

Who knows, maybe they had a batch of that paint lying around & wanted to use it up ( I think they've done aircraft in those colours before ) :biggrin:
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Re: Another Hunter ruined..

Postby GertrudetheMerciless on Thu 14 Dec 2017, 7:50 pm

Wrexham Mackem wrote:
GertrudetheMerciless wrote:
Brevet Cable wrote:They could always have left it rotting away in Swansea, I suppose....


I think some would genuinely prefer the correct markings yet rotting scenario. :roll:


I disagree - you've missed the point. Those aren't the alternatives up for debate. The point is that a great deal of time and money has been spent on this airframe, yet a rather silly end result has been produced when an authentic one was perfectly feasible, with similar resources.


I don't think I've missed the point at all. I genuinely think people would rather it rot. Yes the owner's spent a lot of money on a paint job. Maybe the owner wanted a low maintenance hybrid RAFO/8 Sqn colour scheme? After all, they are very much linked even if a hybrid scheme is not accurate, and shiney.
GertrudetheMerciless

Re: Another Hunter ruined..

Postby toom317 on Thu 14 Dec 2017, 8:03 pm

st24 wrote:
effects wrote:Did 8Sqn RAFO have hunters? Possibly causing this mistake.

Not as far as I can find out, in fact I can't find a RAFO 8Sqn, either way it's wearing the characteristic roundel bars of RAF 8 Sqn.


8 Sqn RAFO flew Jags, 6 Sqn flew Hunters. 6 are currently on Hawks, and I can't find any info on 8 beyond the Jag, or what the Typhoon Sqn is numbered as.
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Re: Another Hunter ruined..

Postby cg_341 on Thu 14 Dec 2017, 8:07 pm

8sqn operate Typhoons from RAFO Adam.
cg_341

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