APRES

APRES

Postby Defendermad on Thu 14 Dec 2017, 10:50 pm

I have been following the APRES page on Facebook for a while, it seems somewhat confrontational, particularly from an admin Caz McCall, who seems to be the leader of the organization/charity in application. Tonight I see she has vanished, no longer an admin, and dissapeared off Facebook. There was a rumour doing the rounds that the charity application was unsuccessful, I can't substantiate that though, only a rumour, has anyone any idea what's going on?
Defendermad

Re: APRES

Postby Brevet Cable on Thu 14 Dec 2017, 11:41 pm

These ?
http://www.apres.org.uk/

All they seem to be in my opinion is yet another group with vague aims ( similar to UKHAT, except that at least UKHAT say they aim to actually purchase their own airframe ) revolving around supporting other peoples' aviation projects.

I'd have been surprised if they did successfully achieve charity status.
Brevet.. Meh !!
Not an enthusiast or a spotter
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Re: APRES

Postby HeyfordDave111 on Fri 15 Dec 2017, 8:07 am

Hmmmmmmmm, slightly confusing in a UKHAT type of way......

The ‘Projects’ tab doesn’t work but shows a picture of a Dakota. Is this theirs, or are they involved in it?

The ‘our work’ tab has a VC10 pictured on it. Are they involved in it?

The gallery has a blackbird picture and a 747/space shuttle combo in it. Have they been involved with those? If so impressive. :wall:

Home page has 2 x American AV8’s on flight. Wow, are they involved in maintenance or flying status etc of US aircraft? :dizzy:

All very ‘impressive’, all very UKHAT, seemingly.
Got to love Russianhardware
HeyfordDave111

Re: APRES

Postby speedbird2639 on Fri 15 Dec 2017, 9:07 am

https://www.facebook.com/groups/6464075 ... 4/members/

Seems to have been just a temporary thing - probably just a Fb glitch. Caz McCall listed as a admin and her personal profile page seems to be reinstated. Most likely just an IT hiccup @ Fb due to their huge size I think occasionally one or two things 'drop down a crack' somewhere.
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Re: APRES

Postby cg_341 on Fri 15 Dec 2017, 9:28 am

Or she had been reported and temporarily banned...
cg_341

Re: APRES

Postby Amp on Fri 15 Dec 2017, 10:43 am

Basically they are saying:- Don't give your cash to the groups who have been working and entertaining us for years as they struggle against the odds to preserve aircraft, just send your cash to us instead.
- Yeah right!
Amp

Re: APRES

Postby HeyfordDave111 on Fri 15 Dec 2017, 11:41 am

Not sure they have had much to do with the Gypsy Moth as the header picture on their Facebook page either.

It being a BAESystems owned and maintained aircraft, but i’m willing to be proved wrong :snack:
Got to love Russianhardware
HeyfordDave111

Re: APRES

Postby Defendermad on Fri 15 Dec 2017, 3:43 pm

I see she has now reappeared, but strange, but technology does hiccup from time to time admittedly. I'm pretty new to Facebook (in my advancing years in remotest Scotland, slightly detached from modern life). It seems they want to be a charity to fund charities, I'm non to sure on the legality of that, however I'm no expert! UKHAT is rather interesting too, albeit they do seem to be a bit clearer with their goals. APRES seem to want an eyewatering annual subscription, much more than other groups and organizations, which made me think twice about joining, as does the continued apparent tension within their PR activities. I can't see the point in paying them to pass money to other groups, a middleman so to speak, people will donate where they see fit, and respond to specific appeals on their merit, as I do. Why the need for a middleman? It concerns me that if something untoward is going on, and I'm not saying there is, it could be damaging for Historic aviation donators, possibly having an adverse effect on other projects.
Defendermad

Re: APRES

Postby Vampire 1973 on Fri 15 Dec 2017, 4:51 pm

Out of the 2 my money is on UKHAT actually succeeding, they have made mistakes and are still learning but are starting to get some where
Vampire 1973

Re: APRES

Postby tache3 on Fri 15 Dec 2017, 6:33 pm

Defendermad wrote:I have been following the APRES page on Facebook for a while, it seems somewhat confrontational


Confrontational in what way? Can you give us an example?
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Re: APRES

Postby robterry99 on Fri 15 Dec 2017, 7:07 pm

tache3 wrote:
Defendermad wrote:I have been following the APRES page on Facebook for a while, it seems somewhat confrontational


Confrontational in what way? Can you give us an example?


I'll start. Exhibit A: https://www.facebook.com/groups/646407555438874/permalink/1480387625374192/

You don't have to go far through that thread before you find Caz asking "So what have you two achieved ? For Aviation Heritage?" and telling people to "stop wasting your energy and blasting me on here and join us into developing something that would help everybody!!!"

She's got all the tact and charm of Kim Jong-un with toothache.

(also, for added amusement, that same thread contains my favourite quote from Ms McCall - when asked about the involvement of Dr Robert Pleming with APRES she says "Robert has succeeded in everything he has set out to do! Give the guy some respect!"). :clown:
robterry99

Re: APRES

Postby tache3 on Fri 15 Dec 2017, 8:10 pm

robterry99 wrote:I'll start. Exhibit A: https://www.facebook.com/groups/646407555438874/permalink/1480387625374192/

You don't have to go far through that thread before you find Caz asking "So what have you two achieved ? For Aviation Heritage?" and telling people to "stop wasting your energy and blasting me on here and join us into developing something that would help everybody!!!"


You have to be a member of that group to view the thread, unfortunately, but that's OK your quotes give us a flavour of whats occurring.

To be fair, she sounds like she's obviously passionate enough about what she wants to achieve to encourage others. There is, however, a fine line between encouragement and beratement.
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Re: APRES

Postby cg_341 on Fri 15 Dec 2017, 8:17 pm

The crux of that argument in Exhibit A is that Richard Flagg wanted to understand who was involved with APRES. A few people were listed, and then it got on to whether Robert Pleming was somehow involved. I shall quote it here...

Richard Flagg: You said to me that Robert Phleming (of XH558 fame) is involved as well, what is his position please?

Nonwithstanding the use of "Phleming", I think it's the same person, therefore this is the conversation in which he was "told" that Pleming was involved with APRES:

Image

Of course, it then degenerated and "Caz" decided that speaking to someone who designed 'her' nose (not sure if it was that of Concorde or Vulcan by this point!) was thorough research.

After that, it all went tits up and I really can't follow it any more!
cg_341

Re: APRES

Postby Ewart on Fri 15 Dec 2017, 8:40 pm

It seems from Caz' reply there is only her and Brian of BAPC involved. The other names she's chucked in as linked to BAPC.

Seems a bit spin doctorish to me.
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Ewart

Re: APRES

Postby robterry99 on Fri 15 Dec 2017, 8:52 pm

Ewart wrote:It seems from Caz' reply there is only her and Brian of BAPC involved. The other names she's chucked in as linked to BAPC.

Seems a bit spin doctorish to me.

Perhaps Donald Trump didn't answer her tweet when she asked him to get involved a few months back. :wall:

Image
robterry99

Re: APRES

Postby robterry99 on Fri 15 Dec 2017, 9:50 pm

cg_341 wrote:"Caz" decided that speaking to someone who designed 'her' nose (not sure if it was that of Concorde or Vulcan by this point!) was thorough research


I suspect "her" in that context would be Concorde, as Caz has a bit of a soft spot for the pointy nose airliner. When APRES was formed 3-and-a-half years ago it was called Supersonic Airways and its primary focus was to champion the return-to-flight (RTF) of Concorde:

Image

In February 2015 the name changed to APRES, the remit widened and the ideas got progressively more bizarre. Which is saying something when the starting point was a Concorde RTF! :lol:
robterry99

Re: APRES

Postby Wissam24 on Fri 15 Dec 2017, 11:09 pm

Avoid like the plague
Twitter: @samwise24 | Flickr: samwise24 | Shamelessly copying LN Strike Eagle's avatar ideas since 2016
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Re: APRES

Postby st24 on Sat 16 Dec 2017, 1:53 pm

HeyfordDave111 wrote:
Home page has 2 x American AV8’s on flight. Wow, are they involved in maintenance or flying status etc of US aircraft? :dizzy:

All very ‘impressive’, all very UKHAT, seemingly.

And other pages have an S-3 and a B-1...?!! Grammar is appalling so I'm out.
What a load of garbage.
You caaan't trust the system... Maaan!
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st24

Re: APRES

Postby CJS on Sat 16 Dec 2017, 2:05 pm

A thoroughly diverting and entertaining 15 minutes flicking through their website but yes, utter drivel.
"Forewarned is forearmed"
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CJS

Re: APRES

Postby ZD241_VC10 on Sat 16 Dec 2017, 2:15 pm

HeyfordDave111 wrote:
The ‘our work’ tab has a VC10 pictured on it. Are they involved in it?



I'm not sure how they were involved in the RAF Museum and GJD's project to move the VC10. Seeing as the VC10 groups have approached Cosford to offer help, and it's been gratefully declined, I'd say they're being some dishonest or, more likely, lazy and using any old photos.
ZD241_VC10

Re: APRES

Postby Vampire 1973 on Sat 16 Dec 2017, 3:35 pm

ZD241_VC10 wrote:
HeyfordDave111 wrote:
The ‘our work’ tab has a VC10 pictured on it. Are they involved in it?



I'm not sure how they were involved in the RAF Museum and GJD's project to move the VC10. Seeing as the VC10 groups have approached Cosford to offer help, and it's been gratefully declined, I'd say they're being some dishonest or, more likely, lazy and using any old photos.


Are they actually involved with an aircraft/group formally?
Vampire 1973

Re: APRES

Postby Tommy on Sat 16 Dec 2017, 5:04 pm

I would love to be proven wrong about these, as I would love to be about UKHAT and numerous others.

However, recently it seems to me, in the days where anyone can create a webpage and a Facebook group and write out an ambiguous mission statement (invariably stating or implying that "they could do it with the Vulcan!") and ask for donations, that well-intoned but hopelessly thought-out, comically inadequate, poorly experienced, or even just downright fraudulent "organisations" (term used very loosely) are as much a danger to the historic aircraft preservation scene as any scrapman's axe.
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Re: APRES

Postby Amp on Sat 16 Dec 2017, 7:11 pm

I cannot see where it states how much you are charged to be a member of this society? There is an apres Facebook page set up by the same lady with over 1,200 members! 'Caz' has flown in a light aircraft and got a Lancaster print, anyone know any more historic aviation credentials....?
Amp

Re: APRES

Postby robterry99 on Sat 16 Dec 2017, 7:21 pm

Amp wrote:I cannot see where it states how much you are charged to be a member of this society?


The prices are on their website (http://www.apres.org.uk/join-us/memberships/) - Single Adult is £52/year, and Lifetime membership is £442. However, I can't find what you get in return for your hard earned cash.

I also noticed that on their "Join Us" page (http://www.apres.org.uk/join%20us/) APRES are claiming to be a charity, despite their recent application being rejected by the Charity Commission. Hmm.
robterry99

Re: APRES

Postby Tommy on Sat 16 Dec 2017, 7:29 pm

robterry99 wrote:However, I can't find what you get in return for your hard earned cash.


  • Membership Card, badge or pin
  • Newsletter (email)
  • Reduced entry to Museums as and when we can negotiate them (My edit: :facepalm: )
  • Discounts on spending over an agreed amount in Museum shops
  • Loyalty scheme for museum visits
  • Free Car parking where applicable
  • Organised events/ visits for members
  • We intend to develop a range of APRES merchandise which we hope will be attractive, excellent quality and competitively priced. We are also talking with a number of groups about putting the APRES logo onto their shirts (for example). Any money from sales of these items would be split between that project/museum and the APRES central fund. So if you wish to stipulate where your money goes, this may be an option for you.
  • The range of merchandise will be discounted for members.


So, in truth? Very little. For £52 p/a.

Wouldn't it just be better if the entirety of that sum was donated to one of the actual restoration projects going on at the moment?
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