Pegs sold

Re: Pegs sold

Postby Elliott Marsh on Fri 02 Mar 2018, 12:28 pm

Stagger2 wrote:'Hawker Demolitions Ltd'


Let's not forget the same company has been involved to some extent with the majority of the world's airworthy Hurricanes, and has restored nine of them. Once 'Hurricane 501' - a Battle of Britain spec Mk.I (http://vintageaviationecho.com/hurricane-v7497-nears-flight/) - rolls out in the near future, they will have restored three to airworthiness within 18 months. All three aircraft are stunningly realised examples by any standards.

I would also take issue with the loaded suggestion re: HRL's fast-tracking of the modifications. A very bold statement to make on a public forum.

Many who know me know my affection for Pegs, one of my absolute favourite warbirds. My hope is that the external modifications aren't too intrusive, and that certainly appears to be the intention from HRL's perspective.
Elliott Marsh

Re: Pegs sold

Postby Stagger2 on Fri 02 Mar 2018, 1:34 pm

jalfrezi wrote:I just found it a little odd that they bought BE505, they've then contracted themselves to convert it, and have already put it back up for sale? :dunno: It's almost like they're testing the waters for two seat conversions, and showcasing what they can do.

I just wish they'd gone for the ground up approach, rather than butchering a perfectly good airframe. :sad:


Quite right! They are running before they can walk. It's always easier to develop the technology & fit on an evolving build, given increased access & the facility to trial-fit before enclosing the modified area. The suggested 12 month programme to do this to BE505 is a joke. First-off, they've got to tear a perfectly good airframe apart sufficiently to even start the conversion.
Keep 505 intact for the period of a ground-up build as a bespoke 2-seater, source & supply an elongated canopy, roll-bar, dual-controls, details & components for the structural enhancement & complete the flight-testing & certification. Take the concept to market & if you get the response you 'expect', start on your next conversion using the knowledge gleaned from the initial ground-up build.
If your 'build-it & they will come' approach is correct, the concept is proven & all donor Hurricanes including BE505 can be in the cross hairs !
In the meanwhile, keep a watchful eye on the fortunes of 1954 Hispano HA-1112 M4L - G-AWHC. The worlds only surviving factory built dual control Buchon, which is NOT an 'Achtung Spitfeuer' :win:
Stagger2

Re: Pegs sold

Postby Amp on Fri 02 Mar 2018, 3:11 pm

This is getting silly. A two seater will be unique too. Perhaps all the keyboard warriors who object so much to the change to a two-seat configuration could have a whip round and present a few million quid to HRL before the mod is performed. What's that old expression?, "put up ...."
Amp

Re: Pegs sold

Postby Ryan. on Fri 02 Mar 2018, 3:40 pm

This aircraft is easily my favourite Hurricane. However I don't pay for it nor contribute in anyway to it's upkeep. Would I rather it fly as a two seater be able to pay for it's upkeep and not end up being passed around? Yes. The cost of owning a warbird is only ever going to go up and there has to be a way of flying them sustainably.

It does seem odd that it's already up for sale as project however no one knows what is going on behind the scenes, there must be an appetite for it and they must know there's a market for it.

Hawker Restorations Limited are the reason I've been able to see so many of my favourite warbird flying of late, every project they have ever completed has been immaculate. I have no doubt this will be the same.
Ryan.

Re: Pegs sold

Postby vulcan558 on Fri 02 Mar 2018, 6:54 pm

What a great experience it will be to be able to fly in a Hurricane along side your partner flying in a spitfire.
The 2 seat Spits seem to have a good market, so the Hurricane will fit in well i believe.
vulcan558

Re: Pegs sold

Postby Dan O'Hagan on Fri 02 Mar 2018, 7:03 pm

st24 wrote:Remember the good old days when your Doug Arnolds, your Ted Whites, your Steve Greys, your Tony Bianchis, your Ray Hannas etc obtained, refurbished and flew warbirds to honour history ; the men machines and moments that forged what the world became... I shouldn't because its only a lump of metal and fabric (it's not-it's the finest British fighter :wink:) but I find this £making story very sad.


This.

Such a shame that money talks louder than the will to preserve historic airframes in the configurations they were intended to be flown.

While not quite on the same page as our friend Stagger2, I'm a little uneasy too about these drastic modifications which require such thorough shifting of various components inside the airframe. One assumes the CAA are completely, no pun intended, on board with all this? Especially with a passenger losing his life in Maurice Hammond's Mustang accident barely 18 months ago.
Dan O'Hagan

Re: Pegs sold

Postby jalfrezi on Fri 02 Mar 2018, 7:07 pm

Amp wrote:This is getting silly. A two seater will be unique too. Perhaps all the keyboard warriors who object so much to the change to a two-seat configuration could have a whip round and present a few million quid to HRL before the mod is performed. What's that old expression?, "put up ...."


So, if people feel strongly about BE505 they're keyboard warriors? BE505 is a unique and much loved Hurricane, OK, it may not have a historic pedigree, but it's still a vintage airframe that's going to be hacked up. Sure it'll be unique as a two seater, but for how long?

HRL have done great work rebuilding Hurricanes almost from scratch in the past, but this certainly won't be their finest hour....
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jalfrezi
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Re: Pegs sold

Postby Tommy on Fri 02 Mar 2018, 7:34 pm

Amp wrote:This is getting silly. A two seater will be unique too. Perhaps all the keyboard warriors who object so much to the change to a two-seat configuration could have a whip round and present a few million quid to HRL before the mod is performed. What's that old expression?, "put up ...."


I've always found this to be a bit of a daft argument. In effect you're saying that if you cant afford something, you shouldn't have an opinion on it. Of course no-one here can personally afford a Hurricane, and even if the "whip round" argument was even credible, which it's not, we've seen that well-intoned amateurs can sometimes do more harm than good to the scene. So putting up and shutting up doesn't really work. It doesn't stop anyone from discussing and sharing their thoughts on a matter.

Also, you've got to be careful with the whole "keyboard warrior" thing, unless you don't mind being called it yourself, as you by definition of being on a keyboard and writing about your objection to something on the internet are also one.
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Re: Pegs sold

Postby MicrolightDriver on Fri 02 Mar 2018, 8:50 pm

Although some people will quite genuinely hate anything that's done to the aircraft, I don't see any reason to assume HRL will do anything other than a superb job.

By going down this more commercial route, the aircraft has a buyer, it stays in the UK, and we have another unique aeroplane at our airshows.

I wonder how many of the critics would put aside their objections if in the future they were offered a free ride in it? :smile:
A proud 'Vulcanist'!
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MicrolightDriver

Re: Pegs sold

Postby Dan O'Hagan on Fri 02 Mar 2018, 9:00 pm

MicrolightDriver wrote:Although some people will quite genuinely hate anything that's done to the aircraft, I don't see any reason to assume HRL will do anything other than a superb job.

By going down this more commercial route, the aircraft has a buyer, it stays in the UK, and we have another unique aeroplane at our airshows.

I wonder how many of the critics would put aside their objections if in the future they were offered a free ride in it? :smile:


Troll level: Expert.
Dan O'Hagan

Re: Pegs sold

Postby MicrolightDriver on Fri 02 Mar 2018, 10:22 pm

Dan O'Hagan wrote:
MicrolightDriver wrote:Although some people will quite genuinely hate anything that's done to the aircraft, I don't see any reason to assume HRL will do anything other than a superb job.

By going down this more commercial route, the aircraft has a buyer, it stays in the UK, and we have another unique aeroplane at our airshows.

I wonder how many of the critics would put aside their objections if in the future they were offered a free ride in it? :smile:


Troll level: Expert.


Why? Because I disagree with you? Sorry about that, happens a lot.

You carry on screaming about 'wrecking' and 'butchery' and a 'bastardised mongrel' before you've got any idea what it'll look like and before they've so much as started... and I'm the one at fault.. :roll:
A proud 'Vulcanist'!
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MicrolightDriver

Re: Pegs sold

Postby Gonzo230 on Sat 03 Mar 2018, 8:18 am

st24 wrote:Remember the good old days when your Doug Arnolds, your Ted Whites, your Steve Greys, your Tony Bianchis, your Ray Hannas etc obtained, refurbished and flew warbirds to honour history ; the men machines and moments that forged what the world became... I shouldn't because its only a lump of metal and fabric (it's not-it's the finest British fighter :wink:) but I find this £making story very sad.


These heroes of aircraft preservation were/are all of a generation that grew up when these aircraft were still around operationally, and the then very recent history was still fresh in the collective consciousness.

Sadly, given how much further in the past those times are now, there is no longer that direct resonance felt by the majority of people. So we end up with a far smaller pool of candidates who have both the means and desire to pour millions into owning, operating and flying such aircraft themselves; and because of that greater detachment, it's also less likely that a benefactor would come along and own and operate such aircraft without themselves being a pilot.

Two-seaters, as much as some on here see them as;
"a bloody shame"
"a crime"
"Crap news"
"a bastardised mongrel is borderline criminal"
"A real shame"
"hideous"
"an airframe......rendered pointless."
"butchery"
"faffed-about-with Sedan chair for rich passengers."
"wanton vandalism"
"Ruining a unique and much-loved warbird"
"wrecking one of the finest restorations"
"Hawker Demolitions Ltd"
"poor decision"
"running before they can walk"
.......might well be the sustainable future in the historic warbird scene.

Like it or not operating a warbird is an expensive business.

And you never know, actually having a flight in the back seat of a Spitfire or Hurricane might well be the spark that lights the passion of the next major warbird operator?
Gonzo230

Re: Pegs sold

Postby Stagger2 on Sat 03 Mar 2018, 10:37 am

For the purposes of clarity my stance is, by all means build a 2-seat/twin-stick Hurricane. Don't convert a pristine flyable aircraft!
The 'perceived' benefit of 12-18 months earlier to revenue earning just doesn't justify the method approach IMO. (Pls see post 11 places above this?)
Stagger2

Re: Pegs sold

Postby Wrexham Mackem on Sat 03 Mar 2018, 10:45 am

Gonzo230 wrote:Two-seaters, as much as some on here see them as.....


No, its not two-seaters per se, its the molesting of one of the nicest Hurricanes I've ever seen, and one of the nicest warbirds on the circuit, that sticks in the craw here.

I accept the owners have given very much to the scene, and that everything in modern life seems to boil down to money, but I wish somebody else had bought Pegs. And no doubt that will cross my mind every time I see the two seater, should it come to fruition. Warbirds come and go for various reasons, but this one was a beauty..
its time to kick the tyres and light the fires

https://www.flickr.com/photos/151934326@N08/albums
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Wrexham Mackem
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