Straight Wing Classic Jets cleared for Aeros

Re: Straight Wing Classic Jets cleared for Aeros

Postby GertrudetheMerciless on Sat 17 Feb 2018, 2:18 am

vulcan558 wrote:Canberra time.


Which one?
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Re: Straight Wing Classic Jets cleared for Aeros

Postby CJS on Sat 17 Feb 2018, 8:30 am

Well obviously not the swept wing one :-P
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Re: Straight Wing Classic Jets cleared for Aeros

Postby GertrudetheMerciless on Sat 17 Feb 2018, 9:16 am

CJS wrote:Well obviously not the swept wing one :-P


:biggrin:
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Re: Straight Wing Classic Jets cleared for Aeros

Postby Cole on Fri 23 Feb 2018, 7:00 pm

GertrudetheMerciless wrote:
vulcan558 wrote:Canberra time.


Which one?


I would think XH134 Has a higher chance than the "other" one
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Re: Straight Wing Classic Jets cleared for Aeros

Postby Brevet Cable on Fri 23 Feb 2018, 8:17 pm

CJS wrote:Well obviously not the swept wing one :-P

And that's the question.....because of the wing shape, it's not really straight but it's not 'swept'.
Same could be said for delta-winged aircraft, not straight & not swept.
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Re: Straight Wing Classic Jets cleared for Aeros

Postby Jumbo on Fri 23 Feb 2018, 8:57 pm

The canberra isn't swept wing, it has constant chord inner wings with tapered outboard sections. It isn't swept as the thickest part of the wing is the same distance from the root across the entire wingspan.
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Re: Straight Wing Classic Jets cleared for Aeros

Postby Brevet Cable on Fri 23 Feb 2018, 9:17 pm

Hence why I posted
it's not really straight but it's not 'swept'


Or are you referring to CJS' joke ?
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Re: Straight Wing Classic Jets cleared for Aeros

Postby Jumbo on Tue 27 Feb 2018, 1:07 pm

Brevet Cable wrote:Hence why I posted
it's not really straight but it's not 'swept'


Or are you referring to CJS' joke ?

I'm referring to how you say it is not straight, which it is. The 172 has a similar taper in the outer wing sections and it is definitely straight wing
Last edited by Jumbo on Tue 27 Feb 2018, 4:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Straight Wing Classic Jets cleared for Aeros

Postby Brevet Cable on Tue 27 Feb 2018, 1:14 pm

You seem to be confusing yourself.
First you post :
The canberra isn't swept wing

Now you post :
I'm referring to how you say it is not swept, which it is


And again, if you bother to re-read my post I clearly stated :
it's not really straight but it's not 'swept'

So you're arguing against something I never even posted. :dizzy:
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Re: Straight Wing Classic Jets cleared for Aeros

Postby st24 on Tue 27 Feb 2018, 1:48 pm

Good grief this is getting very complicated for no reason. The Canberra inner wings are classic standard chord straight sections, the outer are tapered leading and trailing edge with moderate aspect ratio. Not swept. The Cessna 172 has a similar wing but the taper is more pronounced on the trailing edge. Not swept.
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Re: Straight Wing Classic Jets cleared for Aeros

Postby vulcan558 on Tue 27 Feb 2018, 2:04 pm

CJS wrote:Well obviously not the swept wing one :-P

Never seen a swept wing one, do you have any pics of a swept wing.
Your vampire does on the other hand have a swept wing.
vulcan558

Re: Straight Wing Classic Jets cleared for Aeros

Postby st24 on Tue 27 Feb 2018, 4:19 pm

vulcan558 wrote:Your vampire does on the other hand have a swept wing.

No it doesn't - it has the same wing as the Canberra and C. 172, tapered leading and trailing edge straight wings. A swept wing has angled leading and trailing edges, a Venom just about qualifies but it's very shallow.
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Re: Straight Wing Classic Jets cleared for Aeros

Postby Seahornet on Tue 27 Feb 2018, 8:46 pm

If we need to be specific about this, the terms 'Straight Wing' and 'Swept Wing' in this context are generic titles for Category G1 and G2 respectively. These are more exactly specified in 'CAA Review into AAIB Recommendation 2017-003' as:

G1 - Straight wing single engine jet aeroplanes specified by type
G2 - Swept wing single engine jet aeroplanes specified by type

The 'specified by type' part is significant; it derives from the fact that the CAA has categorised all relevant types into G1 or G2, based on their handling characteristics, rather than just the wing shape. Further info here:

https://publicapps.caa.co.uk/docs/33/CAP1628ReviewAAIB2017003.pdf
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Re: Straight Wing Classic Jets cleared for Aeros

Postby XR219 on Tue 27 Feb 2018, 11:41 pm

The Canberra is multi engined and hence in category H, so this SN does not apply.

From an engineering perspective, it is convenient for subsonic aircraft to consider the sweep of the 25% chord line, hence the (more obvious) LE and TE sweeps are not necessarily all they seem...
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Re: Straight Wing Classic Jets cleared for Aeros

Postby AARDVARK on Wed 28 Feb 2018, 9:54 am

are there actually any historic jets left flying in the U.K. since the Shoreham fall out ??
Ok we have Vampire Team and Provost ,but Canberra, as far as I know is now grounded,not sure about the Meteor’s now??
Restriction will still affect the Gnat and obviously Hunter,anything from Sweden,foxy lady is no more (at least for a very long time)and XH558 is grounded for good now,the ex military airshow scene is at its lowest point I have known in the UK
AARDVARK

Re: Straight Wing Classic Jets cleared for Aeros

Postby LN Strike Eagle on Wed 28 Feb 2018, 10:47 am

At least one of the Meteors was sold to new owners in America.
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Re: Straight Wing Classic Jets cleared for Aeros

Postby st24 on Wed 28 Feb 2018, 11:01 am

AARDVARK wrote:are there actually any historic jets left flying in the U.K. since the Shoreham fall out ??
Ok we have Vampire Team and Provost ,but Canberra, as far as I know is now grounded,not sure about the Meteor’s now??
Restriction will still affect the Gnat and obviously Hunter,anything from Sweden,foxy lady is no more (at least for a very long time)and XH558 is grounded for good now,the ex military airshow scene is at its lowest point I have known in the UK

Either way the Canberra(s) didn't t fly aerobatics, neither did the Vulcan, well not legally...
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Re: Straight Wing Classic Jets cleared for Aeros

Postby Brevet Cable on Wed 28 Feb 2018, 11:54 am

AARDVARK wrote:are there actually any historic jets left flying in the U.K. since the Shoreham fall out ??

Given that a JP & L-29 departed St Athan for Coventry last Friday, yes.
And there are at least 2 more JPs currently at St Athan undergoing servicing/maintenance as far as I know.
You can probably throw in a few more JP/Strikemasters still with current PtoFs.
There's another L-29 ( G-DLFN ) with a recent PtoF ( the other 2 ex-Red Star Rebels aircraft were sold overseas, unless I'm mistaken )
Meteor G-BWMF ( WA591 ) is still on a current UK PtoF ( G-LOSM's ( WM167 ) expired recently....is that the one which went to America ? )
Vampire G-VTII ( WZ507 ) was granted a new PtoF a couple of days ago.
There's one Gnat ( G-MOUR ( 'XR992' ) still with a valid PtoF and another ( G-SLYR ) with a PtoF application in progress.
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Re: Straight Wing Classic Jets cleared for Aeros

Postby jalfrezi on Wed 28 Feb 2018, 12:01 pm

Brevet Cable wrote:
AARDVARK wrote:are there actually any historic jets left flying in the U.K. since the Shoreham fall out ??

Given that a JP & L-29 departed St Athan for Coventry last Friday, yes.
And there are at least 2 more JPs currently at St Athan undergoing servicing/maintenance as far as I know.
You can probably throw in a few more JP/Strikemasters still with current PtoFs.
There's another L-29 ( G-DLFN ) with a recent PtoF ( the other 2 ex-Red Star Rebels aircraft were sold overseas, unless I'm mistaken )
Meteor G-BWMF ( WA591 ) is still on a current UK PtoF ( G-LOSM's ( WM167 ) expired recently....is that the one which went to America ? )
Vampire G-VTII ( WZ507 ) was granted a new PtoF a couple of days ago.
There's one Gnat ( G-MOUR ( 'XR992' ) still with a valid PtoF and another ( G-SLYR ) with a PtoF application in progress.


I believe G-LOSM is still in the UK. This is also currently true of G-BWMF, though that's the one that is heading to the States in a few weeks.
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Re: Straight Wing Classic Jets cleared for Aeros

Postby vulcan558 on Wed 28 Feb 2018, 5:37 pm

AARDVARK wrote:are there actually any historic jets left flying in the U.K. since the Shoreham fall out ??
Ok we have Vampire Team and Provost ,but Canberra, as far as I know is now grounded,not sure about the Meteor’s now??
Restriction will still affect the Gnat and obviously Hunter,anything from Sweden,foxy lady is no more (at least for a very long time)and XH558 is grounded for good now,the ex military airshow scene is at its lowest point I have known in the UK

And the Mig, thats on the circuit.
vulcan558

Re: Straight Wing Classic Jets cleared for Aeros

Postby RS2 on Wed 28 Feb 2018, 5:58 pm

Tommy wrote:Good news, of course, but I'm not sure if I'm overly hyped about this.

Some of the best classic jet flying (what precious little there has been) has been post-Shoreham in my opinion. Nice, graceful manoeuvres, without the rivet-popping G-straining moves that can be left to the likes of modern machines with oodles more performance, IMO. Maybe I just need to have my memory jogged.


Would be interesting to hear some of the pilots views, but I agree with Tommy, have enjoyed some of the post Shoreham jet displays more than the full aerobatic displays.
RS2

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