ATC finally going more digital...

[D90Man]

A story from the Auntie....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-43630858

[cg_341]

Amazing to think that Terminal have been using paper strips, take a listen to some of the busy frequencies - VATON, REDFA, LAM, etc. - and more often than not they're absolutely non-stop all day.

Not heard many good things about electronic strips from controllers though, especially as it's invariably slower to tap a screen and go in to a menu to select something than it is to scribble on the strip itself!

Now, where's the popcorn, tomorrow will be interesting...

[Brevet Cable]

Doesn't inspire confidence if they're already predicting delays for tomorrow.

[Gonzo230]

Doesn't inspire confidence if they're already predicting delays for tomorrow.

On the other hand, it might well be evidence of a safety culture that understands that managing change in a safety critical environment needs careful consideration.

I’d say that should inspire more confidence than just plugging in and ‘away you go’.



But we’re always recruiting, so why not apply and show us how it’s done?

[Brevet Cable]

You're confusing systems with users....after all, you're a user aren't you?

[Gonzo230]

You're confusing systems with users....after all, you're a user aren't you?

You’ll have to explain that a bit, sorry.

I’m pretty sure I’m not confusing anything.

Why is your confidence lacking?

[Brevet Cable]

It's not difficult.
Systems - the hardware ( computer ) & software itself.
Users - the people who operate that hardware & software.
Are you a hardware or software engineer ?
If not, you're a user.

Why is your confidence lacking?

That probably means something to someone....to me it's meaningless.

[Gonzo230]

Doesn't inspire confidence if they're already predicting delays for tomorrow.

Well, I’m missing something here then. What it is that you feel should be happening to inspire confidence?

[Brevet Cable]

Ah, got you now.

Presumably the new system has already undergone many hundreds of hours of comprehensive testing - including being run in parallel with the existing system? - to ensure it's reliability, and that all the users are fully conversant with it's operation.
Therefore why the need to restrict the number of flights?

[Gonzo230]

Ah, got you now.

Presumably the new system has already undergone many hundreds of hours of comprehensive testing - including being run in parallel with the existing system? - to ensure it's reliability, and that all the users are fully conversant with it's operation.
Therefore why the need to restrict the number of flights?

This is the first time most ATCOs will be using the system live rather than in a simulator. Simulated ATC is very different to real ATC.

I’d rather err on the side of caution. After all, while a new shiny FO may have got type rated in a Zero Flight Time simulator, and the first time flying an A320 will be with passengers, they will have an experienced Line Training Captain sat next to them. No such safety net for an ATCO at TC. Likewise, would you expect a new RAF Typhoon pilot’s first sortie in a real jet to be a combat op over Syria or Afghan?

It was the same when we transferred to electronic strips in the new tower at LHR. We promulgated a significant programme of reduced flow rates for a period of a few weeks. It got cancelled in a few days. Caution is good. Getting change right is hard.

[Brevet Cable]

Guess I'm more used to hardware.
Back in the day, if I installed a new componant ( be that engine, gearbox, whatever ) in a vehicle or on a piece of industrial machinery it was expected to work up to it's rated capability straight out of the box.
More recently, if we installed a new transformer or generator it was expected to work up to it's rated capability straight out of the box.

IT software training? Generally it's consisted of "There it is, get on with it"

[Beefy]

Is this related to the same story as the Eurocontrol Issue, which is actually being reported as a "System fault"?

I don't think a system "fault" is down to a training issue

Amazing how the two "System Faults" with Eurocontrol have been within the last twenty years, after switching to "digital systems". I don't ever recall paper-strips having "System faults" and causing "Half of all flights to be delayed", as being reported on the BBC:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-43633094

As the saying goes, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it"...

[cg_341]

No, this is in no way related to the issue at NMOC Brussels.

This is the change from paper strips (does what it says on the tin...) to electronic strips (they're on a computer with a touch screen) and the inherent changes to how ATCOs will need to work.

[Dan213]

As the saying goes, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it"...

If this were the case, then we’d still be using the horse and cart.
You have to move with the times, the small teething problems that these systems face are a very small price to pay for the increases in safety in a highly congested system

[SCARECROW 451]

Don't look in a RAF tower, paper strips and fax machines !

[Gonzo230]

:up:

Guess I'm more used to hardware.
Back in the day, if I installed a new componant ( be that engine, gearbox, whatever ) in a vehicle or on a piece of industrial machinery it was expected to work up to it's rated capability straight out of the box.
More recently, if we installed a new transformer or generator it was expected to work up to it's rated capability straight out of the box.

IT software training? Generally it's consisted of "There it is, get on with it"

Ah yes, but you’re talking about a piece of hardware in a larger hardware system, that would either be a direct copy of the previous piece, or at least provide similar outputs with similar inputs.

In this case we’re talking about a human going from pen and paper, which is effectively instinctual (we all learned to read and write in childhood), to using a system that is incredibly complex, requires specific inputs, in certain areas of the HMI, to achieve certain results.

It’s difficult to express exactly how big a change it is for an ATCO. The closest I can imagine is going from a glider to an A320, or from riding a horse to driving a car.

As I said, I moved from paper strips to electronic strips (in a Tower, so a different environment to TC) over ten years ago now, and my capacity, certainly on Ground, with electronic strips is still lower than it was with paper strips. That’s not a criticism of electronic strips, it just reflects the limitations of such a system that is displays information on a screen.