RAF E-7 Wedgetails?

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Re: RAF E-7 Wedgetails?

Sun 24 Jun 2018, 3:21 pm

GertrudetheMerciless wrote:The worry of course is that having broken ground on a 737 facility at Lossiemouth, they’ll put a smaller AEW fleet at Lossie too. Nothing like moving a fleet away from an area that it’s core manpower is in!


The RAF high ups wouldn’t allow it. I well remember “yes, prime minister” when it was sugg stead moving the army barracks up north to unemployment blackspots to create jobs. “The generals would never allow it. It’s too far from Harrods”

Re: RAF E-7 Wedgetails?

Sun 24 Jun 2018, 7:30 pm

Red Dragon wrote:
GertrudetheMerciless wrote:The worry of course is that having broken ground on a 737 facility at Lossiemouth, they’ll put a smaller AEW fleet at Lossie too. Nothing like moving a fleet away from an area that it’s core manpower is in!


The RAF high ups wouldn’t allow it. I well remember “yes, prime minister” when it was sugg stead moving the army barracks up north to unemployment blackspots to create jobs. “The generals would never allow it. It’s too far from Harrods”


Yeah, well, now the Army's in the late RAF Leuchars, right? Just remember who does the fighting and who does the talking these days. Senior officers wanting a K and a big pension know which side their bread is buttered.

Re: RAF E-7 Wedgetails?

Sun 24 Jun 2018, 10:01 pm

Red Dragon wrote:
GertrudetheMerciless wrote:The worry of course is that having broken ground on a 737 facility at Lossiemouth, they’ll put a smaller AEW fleet at Lossie too. Nothing like moving a fleet away from an area that it’s core manpower is in!


The RAF high ups wouldn’t allow it. I well remember “yes, prime minister” when it was sugg stead moving the army barracks up north to unemployment blackspots to create jobs. “The generals would never allow it. It’s too far from Harrods”


They said that about Poseidon, seeing as much of the maritime expertise had upped stocks to Lincolnshire!

Re: RAF E-7 Wedgetails?

Wed 29 Aug 2018, 3:40 pm

Bit of a thread resurrection....

https://ukaviation.news/mod-close-to-signing-2-6bn-deal-for-e7-wedgetail-aews/

Re: RAF E-7 Wedgetails?

Wed 29 Aug 2018, 4:54 pm

What kind of feh, feh, feh, freak weirdo news site is that?

Re: RAF E-7 Wedgetails?

Wed 29 Aug 2018, 5:06 pm

That post probably means something to someone.........

Is the Torygraph more to your liking?
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2018/08/27/row-brewing-boeing-wedgetail-jets/

Re: RAF E-7 Wedgetails?

Wed 03 Oct 2018, 12:52 pm

Bit of a thread resurrection, but....

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/wedgetail-is-on-the-radar-defence-secretary-announces-ahead-of-nato-conference
Speaking ahead of this week’s NATO conference, Defence Secretary Gavin Williamson has announced that the Ministry of Defence is in discussion with Boeing and the Royal Australian Air Force about the potential for the E-7 Wedgetail radar aircraft to replace the current Sentry fleet.
(snip)
Further discussions are set to take place before any investment decision is made, as the MOD follows a stringent approvals process to ensure the aircraft meets the military requirement and represents value-for-money. If selected, UK industry could be involved significantly with the programme, from modification work to through life support.

Speaking ahead of the meeting of Defence Ministers in NATO, Defence Secretary Gavin Williamson said:

"The Wedgetail is the stand-out performer in our pursuit of a new battlespace surveillance aircraft, and has already proved itself in Iraq and Syria. Running air operations from the sky, it could be an excellent asset for the RAF and give us a real edge in this increasingly complex world.
Our future with Australia will already see us operate the same maritime patrol aircraft, world-class Type 26 warships and supersonic F-35 jets. Wedgetail may join that formidable armoury and help us work together to take on the global threats that we both face."

Following market analysis and discussions with other potential providers, the MOD has concluded that the potential procurement of the E-7 represents the best value for money option for the UK against need, whilst representing a significant opportunity for increased defence cooperation and collaboration with our key ally Australia.

The MOD will work closely with Boeing to ensure Britain’s leading defence industry could also benefit from any deal.

Re: RAF E-7 Wedgetails?

Wed 03 Oct 2018, 2:54 pm

In short, it makes sense and there’s no need to struggle along with Sentry for a decade, or worse, take a Nimrodesque capability holiday whilst the slowcoaches (Airbus, Saab) catch up and actually build a working product.

Re: RAF E-7 Wedgetails?

Wed 03 Oct 2018, 3:10 pm

Saab have a working product and have had since 1994. In fact, they've had quite a few!

Saab 340 AEW&C first delivered in 1994
Embraer 145 Erieye first delivered in 2001
Saab 2000 Erieye first delivered in 2010

GlobalEye is their latest product, using Erieye ER. Some people say it's a better product than the MESA system that the Wedgetail uses. Other say differently..!

Would a combined force of Sentinel and GlobalEye be better for the UK? I suppose it's horses for courses, either one would give us cost savings based on type commonality.

Re: RAF E-7 Wedgetails?

Wed 03 Oct 2018, 3:20 pm

Saab have a working, operational product integrated into an intercontinental, 21st century, AAR (or very long range) capable aircraft?

If GlobalEye was so good they’d have put there money where their mouth is and had it in production. But they didn’t (although admittedly they are well ahead of Airbus).

Re: RAF E-7 Wedgetails?

Wed 03 Oct 2018, 3:32 pm

GlobalEye is in the test and integration phase at moment - so they are putting their money where their mouth is. They're building something new, creating a viable and probably much lower cost alternative, on a trusted intercontinental (something the 737 is definitely not) platform.

Out of the box the 737-700 has a range of 3439nm. The Global 6000 has a range of 6150nm.

There are 1161 737-700s since the first one was delivered at the end of 1997. Call it 1998 for ease. I calculate that at ~58 a year. There are 300 Global 6000s since the first one was slivered in January 2011. That's ~43 a year. Considering the Global 6000 is just an avionics and cabin upgrade on a BD700, those numbers become 614 since 2007; ~56 a year. Fairly even in that respect, both well utilised platforms in their respective fields.

I'm not saying the MOD should go with GlobalEye, only that it's wrong to say that Wedgetail is the only platform out there suited to the UK's needs.

Re: RAF E-7 Wedgetails?

Wed 03 Oct 2018, 4:14 pm

But it is the only proven, AAR capable platform they could order tomorrow for delivery before 2025. The RAF have been bitten by a GlobalExpress based conversion before too.

An off the shelf, airliner sized aircraft (minor consideration that the crew’s comfort and space needs thinking about) is what is desperately needed ASAP.

Re: RAF E-7 Wedgetails?

Fri 05 Oct 2018, 8:45 am

Let's face it though, once the MOD get their hands on it, it will be far from off the shelf.

Re: RAF E-7 Wedgetails?

Fri 05 Oct 2018, 10:22 am

SAAB did say they could offer Globaleye on a bigger platform (even upto A330 size) I believe

Re: RAF E-7 Wedgetails?

Fri 05 Oct 2018, 12:37 pm

Comparing the Erieye ER and the Wedgetail system is quite difficult as the exact information is highly classified.

From what is available, side-on performance seems similar however the Wedgetail has the edge in 360 degree coverage where it has dedicated radar antenna to provide forward and aft coverage.

Re: RAF E-7 Wedgetails?

Fri 05 Oct 2018, 1:48 pm

Binbrook 01 wrote:SAAB did say they could offer Globaleye on a bigger platform (even upto A330 size) I believe


But under what timescale? :smile:

Re: RAF E-7 Wedgetails?

Fri 05 Oct 2018, 4:59 pm

No idea, as I can't remember where I saw it.

Although I suspect the answer is most likely....Not very quickly ....

Re: RAF E-7 Wedgetails?

Fri 05 Oct 2018, 7:18 pm

Binbrook 01 wrote:No idea, as I can't remember where I saw it.

Although I suspect the answer is most likely....Not very quickly ....


Maybe in time to compete to replace the NATO and USAF E-3s!

Re: RAF E-7 Wedgetails?

Sun 07 Oct 2018, 3:12 pm

Yes but sadly we know what happened last time the US wanted a system based on an A330 airframe.....
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