RAFAT: In decline?

Discuss all things 'aviation' that do not fit into a more appropriate forum
Nige321
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Re: RAFAT: In decline?

Post by Nige321 »

All looks good to me...
The number of shares issued is irellevant, it's the proportions that matter.

What the company accounts won't tell you is what's going on in the office...

This thread is about RAFAT's decline, I threw the Aeralis link in slightly tongue in cheek as it's relevant that sooner or later the Hawks will need to be replaced.
Aerlais are doing a lot of design work, and have the ear of a couple of tier 1 players.

Will it end up in RAF service.
Probably not, but people like Elon Musk and Burt Rutan have shown that moulds can be broken...
Last edited by Nige321 on Tue 09 Oct 2018, 10:43 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Brevet Cable
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Re: RAFAT: In decline?

Post by Brevet Cable »

Won't get far with less than £35k, though
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Nige321
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Re: RAFAT: In decline?

Post by Nige321 »

Won't get far with less than £35k, though


If that's how you think it works then that's fine with me...

Nige321
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Re: RAFAT: In decline?

Post by Nige321 »

Why don't you chuck some pennies in?
I have!

https://aeralis.com/aeralis-launches-on-syndicate-room/

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pbeardmore
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Re: RAFAT: In decline?

Post by pbeardmore »

In the very long term, the aircraft that the Reds use (if they last that long as a team) is a good and perhaps sad indicator of the direction our own aircraft industry is heading. The Hawk was a 100% British project and a genuine success story. If you look where we are now to when the Hawk first flew in 1974, things have clearly changed. It was a no brainer that the Gnat would be replaced by an all British airframe but, where is the replacement for the Hawk?

I just cant see BA coming up with a viable project on their own. The recent TX decision surely shows that the Brits are behind the curve rather than ahead?

At best the Hawk replacement, it will be a joint project or a licence build from a foreign design. At worst, we buy (or lease?) foreign "off the peg". Leading on from this, one of the key roles for the Reds has always been to promote the Hawk and the wider UK aerospace industry. By defintion, this role has gone if they are not flying a British design.
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starbuck
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Re: RAFAT: In decline?

Post by starbuck »

I know there is a little thread drift here but is there not an elephant in the room in so far as why should a company like BAE look to make a large investment for a replacement for the Hawk when the need to train large numbers of fighter pilots for this country is going to continually diminish and eventually disappear altogether?

I know the F-35 is going to be with us for the next 50 odd years but are we genuinely looking at the last manned fast jet to enter the RAF / Navy? I can well see us sending our 20 new pilots per year or whatever the intake will be off to the states for their fast jet training and then transition onto the F-35 and come back across the Atlantic a couple of years later and join a squadron. Makes a lot of sense really.

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Brevet Cable
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Re: RAFAT: In decline?

Post by Brevet Cable »

Nige321 wrote:Why don't you chuck some pennies in?
I have!

To be honest, I tend to chuck my cash at projects I think will succeed & I don't think that will.
Others such as yourself will disagree.


pbeardmore wrote:if they last that long as a team

As I posted in another thread : HofC Committee For Public Accounts' report into 'Skill Shortages In The Armed Forces' : https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201719/cmselect/cmpubacc/1027/1027.pdf
Possibly just me, but I find it hard to justify keeping them as a permanent team after reading that.
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pbeardmore
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Re: RAFAT: In decline?

Post by pbeardmore »

starbuck wrote:I know there is a little thread drift here but is there not an elephant in the room in so far as why should a company like BAE look to make a large investment for a replacement for the Hawk when the need to train large numbers of fighter pilots for this country is going to continually diminish and eventually disappear altogether?

I know the F-35 is going to be with us for the next 50 odd years but are we genuinely looking at the last manned fast jet to enter the RAF / Navy? I can well see us sending our 20 new pilots per year or whatever the intake will be off to the states for their fast jet training and then transition onto the F-35 and come back across the Atlantic a couple of years later and join a squadron. Makes a lot of sense really.


Very good point, not thread drift as the Reds exist within our currect World and our place within it: it's changing rapidly.
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skidd40
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Re: RAFAT: In decline?

Post by skidd40 »

pbeardmore wrote:
starbuck wrote:I know there is a little thread drift here but is there not an elephant in the room in so far as why should a company like BAE look to make a large investment for a replacement for the Hawk when the need to train large numbers of fighter pilots for this country is going to continually diminish and eventually disappear altogether?

I know the F-35 is going to be with us for the next 50 odd years but are we genuinely looking at the last manned fast jet to enter the RAF / Navy? I can well see us sending our 20 new pilots per year or whatever the intake will be off to the states for their fast jet training and then transition onto the F-35 and come back across the Atlantic a couple of years later and join a squadron. Makes a lot of sense really.


Very good point, not thread drift as the Reds exist within our currect World and our place within it: it's changing rapidly.



Agreed but we will still need a bunch of bright eyed red suited children wandering around airshows staring up mouths agog to churn them , so what ever they fly still needed and as said before not in decline just a case of familiarity breeds contempt

stonojnr
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Re: RAFAT: In decline?

Post by stonojnr »

admittedly maybe not so much of an issue this past year, but Im just wondering if the issue is often down to the weather constraints they have to deal with in the UK so often, the difference between a full display and one impacted by cloud limits or rain is very stark.

I mean I hadnt realised I hadnt seen a full proper display for so long, Ive always liked watching the Reds display regardless of the display they put on but Id just become use to the cloud limited displays, or ones where they never quite got the air traffic to keep out the way long enough, Id assumed that was the norm, till I happened to be in Weymouth for the carnival display probably 2011ish, and the whole skies were their playground that day no constraints,and it was an amazing difference, just to do the full height loop and you then realise blimey Ive not seen since I was probably a kid, and you were just constantly having to look around in all directions to keep up with it, it was amazing frankly and made me appreciate how much they have to curtail what they can do sometimes.

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CJS
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Re: RAFAT: In decline?

Post by CJS »

stonojnr wrote:admittedly maybe not so much of an issue this past year, but I'm just wondering if the issue is often down to the weather constraints they have to deal with in the UK so often, the difference between a full display and one impacted by cloud limits or rain is very stark.

I mean I hadnt realised I hadnt seen a full proper display for so long, I've always liked watching the Reds display regardless of the display they put on but Id just become use to the cloud limited displays, or ones where they never quite got the air traffic to keep out the way long enough, Id assumed that was the norm, till I happened to be in Weymouth for the carnival display probably 2011ish, and the whole skies were their playground that day no constraints,and it was an amazing difference, just to do the full height loop and you then realise blimey I've not seen since I was probably a kid, and you were just constantly having to look around in all directions to keep up with it, it was amazing frankly and made me appreciate how much they have to curtail what they can do sometimes.


But then, as others have pointed out, how many other display teams even have 3 displays, let alone the ability to switch between them mid display? Weather or not, it stands them out from other teams (unless I am wrong, but I certainly don't recall ever seeing a team switch displays mid flight like the RAFAT do sometimes. Do other teams have flat and/or rolling displays even available to them?).
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