Old Sarum Airshow- 12th & 13th September

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techniquest
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Re: Old Sarum Airshow- 12th & 13th September

Post by techniquest »

May be worth air shows putting up a donations link on their sites, as I'm sure I'm not the only one who would feel making a donation to the costs was perfectly reasonable.


As for the dig at the freeloaders, curious as to what he said, because if I had heard it (I was on that hill) I could have answered him by saying that with a better organized show that problem could also have been mitigated. I live in a village a few miles N of Old Sarum and regularly buy tickets and travel hundreds of miles to see shows across the country but I didn't choose to buy a ticket and go into my local show. The reason, poor organization. Leading up to the show there was a dearth of info on what was coming, the timing of the day which seemed unlikely (0830 entry, flying to start at 1130, neither of which proved to be true), the use of advanced tickets only (for a new show without clear indication of content?), the likelihood of little to see on the ground and a reliance on the museum which isn't designed to accommodate large numbers of visitors all at once.

If someone had made a better job of the product and the selling of that product I would have purchased it.


Two excellent points. For me to buy tickets in advance, a show has to demonstrate that it's going to be well worth risking potential wet weather for, and the price asked. I have little confidence when the official website shows no immediate evidence of opening times, flying times, static line-up, etc. Besides, it seems the show had more people attending than they could cater for; could they really have squeezed yet more people in?
Personally, in considering whether to buy tickets, my initial feeling was that the cost was rather steep. I compare it to another local show - Yeovilton; £20 for an advance ticket or £25 on the day.

disgruntled
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Re: Old Sarum Airshow- 12th & 13th September

Post by disgruntled »

The commentators comments were in the context of thanking everyone who had made the show possible include the spectators who supported by paying and thereby ensuring there was actually a show for those freeloaders to watch. Sorry I can't recall the exact words but that was the gist and the context.

In regard to the exit I have to say I sat in my car originally fearing a delay of several hours whereas in reality given the number of people there I thought things went relatively smoothly and was well managed. As I implied earlier, you can have as many skilled stewards or plans as you like however you cannot account for the selfish self entitled attitude of a few that always exacerbate the problem. Anything is only ever as strong as its weakest link and I stand by my comment that in the majority of cases the weakest link is "us".

That's not to say this was a good show and I'm trying to absolve the organisers of blame. Luckily the one saving grace was that it's primary purpose ie the flying display was very enjoyable with excellent flying from an interesting a varied mix of acts. The Fournier display in particular was excellent and despite this sites loathing of them I thought Team Raven showed they have potential.
Other than that I fully concur with all the comments above regarding signage ticket checking and catering.

LittleRedTrain
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Re: Old Sarum Airshow- 12th & 13th September

Post by LittleRedTrain »

disgruntled wrote:The commentators comments were in the context of thanking everyone who had made the show possible include the spectators who supported by paying and thereby ensuring there was actually a show for those freeloaders to watch. Sorry I can't recall the exact words but that was the gist and the context.


I believe it was something like:
"We want to thank everyone who came along and bought a ticket to support the show. On your way out, make sure you wave to the freeloaders on the hill, using as many fingers as you feel appropriate".

beefer
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Re: Old Sarum Airshow- 12th & 13th September

Post by beefer »

I dont normaly reply in these discussions,but as one of the so called freeloaders on the hill,I felt I had to reply.

I'm so glad that the commentator knows the reason why every single person was on that hill.My own reason was two fold,firstly as it was advanced ticket only and couldn't get leave guaranteed until the begining of the September,I could not afford to take the risk of buying a ticket for myself and my 10 year old,and being out of pocket if I could not get leave.Secondly,having attended an air show at Old Sarum in 2008,and also having been to the Museum,knew that there was very little to keep children occupied for lond periods(especially as the flying started much later than advertised),while the hill fort had plenty of space to run around and not get in anyones way.
Finally people may have bought tickets,but seeing the traffic chaos getting into the site,might have looked at the hill fort and thought it might offer different angles.Also people could have bought tickets for both days and do hill fort one day and Airfield the other.

In my view it was very unproffesional of the commentator to assume that we all could not be bothered to buy tickets and have a free show.

LittleRedTrain
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Re: Old Sarum Airshow- 12th & 13th September

Post by LittleRedTrain »

I was able to purchase my ticket online at 5:30pm on Friday (as soon as VTTS confirmed that the Vulcan was, at least at that point, serviceable) so I don't think people could complain that tickets weren't available at the point where they had to make a go/don't go decision.
I think they may even have been available on the Saturday morning (not that staff were checking them thoroughly anyway).

Agreed, however, that the limited facilities on-site and lack of information about flying may well have provided a disincentive for people to come into the show itself.

The issue of those who pay for shows vs freeloaders has been done to death on this site previously though. Hopefully if they run the show again, the organisers will learn from this and try their best to make sure that people feel they are going to get value for money by paying to come in.

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seacat192
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Re: Old Sarum Airshow- 12th & 13th September

Post by seacat192 »

Interesting and valid views so far.

Like (probably) most of those at OS on saturday, I bought my ticket to have what was most likely going to be my last chance to see the Vulcan flying. In the end it didn't happen, but that didn't dampen my enjoyment of the day.

A few more PA speakers at the western end would have been appreciated, the info of the Vulcan cancellation coming from others around me telling other people. Likewise, some toilets at that end of the airfield, and possibly a couple in the car park, would be great.

In the circumstances, I thought the car park stewards/marshals dealt with the exit well. I waited at the car for about an hour before leaving the field. But for the next time, I think I'll follow the actions of one visitor, who kept his hand on the car horn for ages, and then gets out and starts having an arguement with the head marshal/steward. The result - he was brought to the head of the queue and sent on his merry way! :wall: :wall: :facepalm: :facepalm:


In short, I think the day/weekend has some potential and the Organisers will learn lessons for future events.

Would I go again - YES!


Roger
Last edited by seacat192 on Sun 13 Sep 2015, 6:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Tomahawk
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Re: Old Sarum Airshow- 12th & 13th September

Post by Tomahawk »

LittleRedTrain wrote:
disgruntled wrote:The commentators comments were in the context of thanking everyone who had made the show possible include the spectators who supported by paying and thereby ensuring there was actually a show for those freeloaders to watch. Sorry I can't recall the exact words but that was the gist and the context.


I believe it was something like:
"We want to thank everyone who came along and bought a ticket to support the show. On your way out, make sure you wave to the freeloaders on the hill, using as many fingers as you feel appropriate".


If that was what he said then I can now add unprofessional and arrogant attitude of the commentator to the poor organisation and lacklustre 'selling' of the show. If that was how he felt then he no doubt would have applauded as one poor chap was taken to hospital off the hill yesterday after suffering breathing difficulties before the flying started, 'freeloader eh? got what he deserved'.

jl151080
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Re: Old Sarum Airshow- 12th & 13th September

Post by jl151080 »

Old Sarum was practically deserted today. It was like being at my own private airshow. About as different to yesterday as you could imagine, when I was surrounded by people. Talk about the Vulcan effect!

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Disaster Area
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Re: Old Sarum Airshow- 12th & 13th September

Post by Disaster Area »

For those members that were there today (Sunday) can I please ask what you thought about the wasp display?

Stuie173
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Re: Old Sarum Airshow- 12th & 13th September

Post by Stuie173 »

Ferocious Frankie...WHAT A DISPLAY! I was on the road to the South looking to get right amongst the action and Frankie delivered in spades. The two Spits opening were really good as well. Lovely mix of formation flying and solo. Lets not mention the Vulcan...good to see she flew today.

Image

jl151080
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Re: Old Sarum Airshow- 12th & 13th September

Post by jl151080 »

Disaster Area wrote:For those members that were there today (Sunday) can I please ask what you thought about the wasp display?


I must be honest and admit helicopters are not really 'my thing', but it was an enjoyable display. Good to see it land, too.

jl151080
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Re: Old Sarum Airshow- 12th & 13th September

Post by jl151080 »

Stuie173 wrote:Ferocious Frankie...WHAT A DISPLAY! I was on the road to the South looking to get right amongst the action and Frankie delivered in spades. The two Spits opening were really good as well. Lovely mix of formation flying and solo. Lets not mention the Vulcan...good to see she flew today.

Image


Great photo. Ferocious Frankie was awesome as usual, both today and yesterday.

shutterbug
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Re: Old Sarum Airshow- 12th & 13th September

Post by shutterbug »

Hi, newly registered so apologies in advance if treading on toes.

Catering stuck out, because it went so horribly wrong. There was an announcement along the lines of 'We were let down by some of the caterers', which explains a lot. Even so, it surprised me a bit that nobody managed to mobilise any emergency backup solution for essentials (trestle tables, some crates of bottled water, trip down cash and carry, bunch of volunteers and a cash box? c'mon!) In the end we went exploring after two hours in a queue and found a completely unrelated burger van near a biker shop outside the show. I'm told that the airshow organisers invited them to move into the show but they told them no, as they felt they were there for the bikers and didn't have that quantity of stock anyway. Goes to show that the organisers were aware and trying, and it can't have been fun having been messed around by your caterers, but maybe a more proactive/brutal approach to problem-solving could have helped take the edge off those queues.

Loos were fine. Virtually never seemed to be a queue, although the fact that nobody was able to buy anything to drink may have helped with that :grin:

We didn't have a problem leaving but we didn't rush out; instead we waited to watch the last few departures, took a contemplative trip to the loo, that kind of thing. By the time we got to the car they were directing the queues very efficiently and we got out way faster than we'd feared. We did have a little fun finding it until we realised that the OSA signs were a cryptic allusion to the airshow :smile:

To be honest I thought the commentators' irreverence very funny and one of the better things about the day, especially the morning, during which time there frankly wasn't much else goingfor entertainment, but then I assumed they had comedy aforethought and took their remarks with a pinch of salt. Airshow itself was even better than I hoped as I hadn't had great expectations given the lack of information. Lauren's display in particular was a highlight for me. I would go again - it's very local - but the organisers should tackle the problems, especially those relating to lack of information and lack of contingency planning for unexpected situations. Obviously very sad about the Vulcan; I plan to chase XH558 all the way to Southport next weekend...

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lynothehammer
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Re: Old Sarum Airshow- 12th & 13th September

Post by lynothehammer »

Disaster Area wrote:For those members that were there today (Sunday) can I please ask what you thought about the wasp display?


Fantastic, wasn't aware until this morning that the WASP was displaying until this morning but some nice photographic opportunities to be had with it.

Sounds awful but once the Vulcan goes hopefully it will unearth some of the smaller acts that are much more enjoyable and probably a fraction of the price... :D

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lynothehammer
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Re: Old Sarum Airshow- 12th & 13th September

Post by lynothehammer »

My views on the show today, obviously this show was put together at rather short notice and there wasn't a lot of advertising for it online, I'm not a local so i'm not sure if there were posters up around the town. A Facebook/Twitter account would have gone a long way i think for the not so local aviation fans.

The show ground was rather poor with a handful of stalls (but they were aviation related so thats a good thing), to be honest it could have done with a couple of children orientated activities as my 3 1/2 year old was getting fed up by about 12 (we got in at 10). Food stalls, there were plenty of them today and toilets too which was nice to see and they weren't a long walk away either.

The museum access was good, I went to the Support Our Paras event last year and you had to pay extra to go into the museum so i didn't bother. A truly fantastic little museum with a treasure trove of goodies (unfortunately with my little ones attention span soon went which meant a very quick look around).

The tannoys was brilliant, not too loud and offensive with very good commentators (Personally I like the freeloaders jibe from the day before), but then again its the same commentator as Dunsfold and i always find him informative with a great sense of humour. Kept us up to date with the flying programme as soon as he got information through too.

The flying display was absolutely fantastic, a nice varied blend of acts which probably would have benefitted from a fast jet but to be honest it didn't bother me too much. The WASP was a great display, really enjoyed the RAF Tutor which really does suit a small airfield like Sarum along with the Great War Display Team (even if i did nearly soil my pants with the pyros). The Swordfish & Auto Gyro were also fantastic little displays rounded off with a stonking performance from Paul Bonhomme in Frankie. Perhaps it was lacking a BIG headline act for today and thats why it was so quiet.

A couple of smaller minor gripes, where was Sally B today ? advertised for both days but not to be seen, also the display aircraft along the flight line was a bit irritating for take off shots but it's certainly not anything that would stop me going back to another airshow there.

IF this was a trial for a yearly airshow then they'll have learnt a lot from it, there are things that need to be done to make it better but they also got a lot right too.

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captchaos
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Re: Old Sarum Airshow- 12th & 13th September

Post by captchaos »

If you thought the pyros were loud, try flying over them! :)
Last edited by captchaos on Mon 14 Sep 2015, 6:19 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Disaster Area
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Re: Old Sarum Airshow- 12th & 13th September

Post by Disaster Area »

Expect there to be a bigger and better Old Sarum air show in 2016!

Thanks for the comments about the Wasp display, very late addition to the flying program but credit to the organisers for putting the extra effort in to try and secure extra displays on the Sunday at such last minute.

jl151080
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Re: Old Sarum Airshow- 12th & 13th September

Post by jl151080 »

Absolutely. I attended both days and thoroughly enjoyed the show.

melvyn hiscock
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Re: Old Sarum Airshow- 12th & 13th September

Post by melvyn hiscock »

Tomahawk wrote:
If that was what he said then I can now add unprofessional and arrogant attitude of the commentator to the poor organisation and lacklustre 'selling' of the show. If that was how he felt then he no doubt would have applauded as one poor chap was taken to hospital off the hill yesterday after suffering breathing difficulties before the flying started, 'freeloader eh? got what he deserved'.


I cannot let these comments go without comment.

I am not part of the organising group of the airshow and my comments are made from what information I have had over the weekend.

You say that your reason for watching the show from Old Sarum castle was that you had tried to get information from the website and it had not been there. This was a problem and it was discussed in a frank discussion after the event.

However, you had the option of choosing not to attend if you were not satisfied with the information you were receiving. You chose not to attend the show. That is all acceptable.

Now, whichever way you choose to try and excuse yourself, as a secondary action you chose to watch the show from the grounds of the castle. For ree. You had the choice to stay away and you chose to watch for free.

Now even if I chose to accept your reasons, which quite frankly are pretty thin, you are only talking about yourself. There were many hundreds of people that were also on the castle. There is no way they all had the same reason as you. They were there because they had no intention of paying to get in.

Not only that, but they chose to visit a place where they were not covered by the safety provisions that were put into place for this event. In the aftermath of Shoreham, this is something that is of great concern to airshow organisers, the CAA and aircraft operators. Yes, it is your choice, but it is someone else's responsibility, something they actually take very seriously.

Many of you went to see the Vulcan and it was a shame it did not appear. But there is one very important piece of information that you should know.

Now, here is something you may not know but we were very, very, aware of. The organisers of the show had been told by the Vulcan operators that if any significant numbers of people were seen under the approach, the Vulcan WOULD NOT DISPLAY.

Your very presence, in such numbers, as freeloaders and nothing else, was a significant threat to the appearance of the Vulcan. They may have chosen to display, had they not had the fuel leak, but so soon after Shoreham that was actually very unlikely. Your presence was a threat to the one thing you had turned up, in such numbers, to freeload and see.

You accuse me of arrogance. That is your opinon and, to be perfectly honest, I could not care less. However, your assumption that you have every right to compromise your own safety and the viability of the airshow, because you simply did not like what you heard from the organisers, is way more arrogant and foolhardy than anything I may have said in passing as a joke.

That is bad enough but you go much further.

You mention the gentleman that was taken ill.

I sincerely hope that when he was taken ill, his position away from medical services that were available at the airfield, did not cause problems in his treatment or his future recovery. Had he been taken ill on the airfield we would have had services available and we would have been more than happy to hold the show to allow an air ambulance to come and get him. We also had better road connections to get him away from the site, by road if necessary, to where treatment could take place.

But you don't leave it at that. You have criticised me and that is fine, however you have also personally insulted me and that is not acceptable in any way.

You have suggested that I would be glad that a gentlemen was taken ill, because it serves him right. If you think this, you clearly do not know me but that doesn't matter as this says much much more about you than it does me. I use my real name on here as I have nothing to hide. You, like so many people, hide behind a user name and you seem to think you can say what you like with no comeback.

I wonder if you would have the nerve to come up to me and make those accusations to my face. Somehow I doubt that, it is much easier to be a big man, hiding behind a username, jeapordising the one thing you seen to think you have a right to see for nothing with no thought for anyone else and slopping out personal insults to people that you do not know.

And you call me arrogant.

Tomahawk
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Re: Old Sarum Airshow- 12th & 13th September

Post by Tomahawk »

melvyn hiscock wrote:
Tomahawk wrote:
If that was what he said then I can now add unprofessional and arrogant attitude of the commentator to the poor organisation and lacklustre 'selling' of the show. If that was how he felt then he no doubt would have applauded as one poor chap was taken to hospital off the hill yesterday after suffering breathing difficulties before the flying started, 'freeloader eh? got what he deserved'.


I cannot let these comments go without comment.

I am not part of the organising group of the airshow and my comments are made from what information I have had over the weekend.

You say that your reason for watching the show from Old Sarum castle was that you had tried to get information from the website and it had not been there. This was a problem and it was discussed in a frank discussion after the event.

However, you had the option of choosing not to attend if you were not satisfied with the information you were receiving. You chose not to attend the show. That is all acceptable.

Now, whichever way you choose to try and excuse yourself, as a secondary action you chose to watch the show from the grounds of the castle. For ree. You had the choice to stay away and you chose to watch for free.

Now even if I chose to accept your reasons, which quite frankly are pretty thin, you are only talking about yourself. There were many hundreds of people that were also on the castle. There is no way they all had the same reason as you. They were there because they had no intention of paying to get in.

Not only that, but they chose to visit a place where they were not covered by the safety provisions that were put into place for this event. In the aftermath of Shoreham, this is something that is of great concern to airshow organisers, the CAA and aircraft operators. Yes, it is your choice, but it is someone else's responsibility, something they actually take very seriously.

Many of you went to see the Vulcan and it was a shame it did not appear. But there is one very important piece of information that you should know.

Now, here is something you may not know but we were very, very, aware of. The organisers of the show had been told by the Vulcan operators that if any significant numbers of people were seen under the approach, the Vulcan WOULD NOT DISPLAY.

Your very presence, in such numbers, as freeloaders and nothing else, was a significant threat to the appearance of the Vulcan. They may have chosen to display, had they not had the fuel leak, but so soon after Shoreham that was actually very unlikely. Your presence was a threat to the one thing you had turned up, in such numbers, to freeload and see.

You accuse me of arrogance. That is your opinon and, to be perfectly honest, I could not care less. However, your assumption that you have every right to compromise your own safety and the viability of the airshow, because you simply did not like what you heard from the organisers, is way more arrogant and foolhardy than anything I may have said in passing as a joke.

That is bad enough but you go much further.

You mention the gentleman that was taken ill.

I sincerely hope that when he was taken ill, his position away from medical services that were available at the airfield, did not cause problems in his treatment or his future recovery. Had he been taken ill on the airfield we would have had services available and we would have been more than happy to hold the show to allow an air ambulance to come and get him. We also had better road connections to get him away from the site, by road if necessary, to where treatment could take place.

But you don't leave it at that. You have criticised me and that is fine, however you have also personally insulted me and that is not acceptable in any way.

You have suggested that I would be glad that a gentlemen was taken ill, because it serves him right. If you think this, you clearly do not know me but that doesn't matter as this says much much more about you than it does me. I use my real name on here as I have nothing to hide. You, like so many people, hide behind a user name and you seem to think you can say what you like with no comeback.

I wonder if you would have the nerve to come up to me and make those accusations to my face. Somehow I doubt that, it is much easier to be a big man, hiding behind a username, jeapordising the one thing you seen to think you have a right to see for nothing with no thought for anyone else and slopping out personal insults to people that you do not know.

And you call me arrogant.


Getting involved in a public slanging match on an internet forum, that ticks the unprofessional box.

Yes you are arrogant and that rambling discourse of yours above confirms it. Old Sarum Castle was OPEN to the public. If that risk to the Vulcan was as you put it why didn't the airshow and English Heritage get together and close the site, why were English Heritage actively parking cars in the lower field (under any curving approach to 06). The site was open, the Vulcan was coming, it was guaranteed there would be hundreds of people on that hill unless active measures were taken to prevent it and yet the gates were unlocked.

Yes there were many people on that hill who chose not to attend/pay and were there to watch the display only but there were also families enjoying a day out at a well known local attraction, walking the dog, playing games etc. with an airshow in the background and yet every one of them is still, to you, a freeloader. This wasn't the fields at Duxford, where your argument might have held some value, it was Salisbury and it was a public park and tourist attraction. As I said, arrogant.

Oh and as for the name thing, my name is Paul Mather, I shall be at the Duxford BoB Show on the 19th. Feel free to PM me if you are also in attendance and we can discuss this further in person should you wish to do so.

Oldtower
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Re: Old Sarum Airshow- 12th & 13th September

Post by Oldtower »

Disaster Area wrote:Expect there to be a bigger and better Old Sarum air show in 2016!

Thanks for the comments about the Wasp display, very late addition to the flying program but credit to the organisers for putting the extra effort in to try and secure extra displays on the Sunday at such last minute.


Just to say that (& not intending to seek any credit) but it was I who secured the Wasp display for this show at late notice - the organiser was early Saturday evening wracking his brains to think of some display acts to help fill some voids for Sunday and just demonstrating in times of need / help, us organisers like to help one another if we can / where possible and also a big thanks to Terry Martin for agreeing at such short notice (as he had to depart and catch a flight later that afternoon to Jersey for his job). In my view on the whole, the show was a little cracker and with some refinements (bearing in mind it was this teams first event here so bound to have some teething issues) its an excellent venue for future shows so a very well done.

jl151080
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Re: Old Sarum Airshow- 12th & 13th September

Post by jl151080 »

I would also like to thank the organisers for a very enjoyable event, both days, and I will certainly attend future shows.

Highlights for me were the dual Spitfire display, a fantastic display by Ferocious Frankie on both days, and the opportunity to see Sally B at such close quarters on Saturday.

Peter Teichman bringing in the P40, and getting to see him take off yesterday, was worth the price of admission alone IMO.

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MikeyB
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Re: Old Sarum Airshow- 12th & 13th September

Post by MikeyB »

I for one had a splendid day at the Old Sarum Airshow! The size of show reminded me of the by-gone Kemble Open Days and Battle Of Britain Airshows that always used to be held in September.

The display line-up was decent with my personal highlights being the Biggin Hill Spitfire duo and Great War Display Team with unexpected pyros! :biggrin:

Of course the Vulcan was a huge disappointment on the day, but thank goodness she has been fixed up quickly! For me, the only improvement should be for the catering, but again, this wasn't the organiser's fault and so I'm sure that this won't be an issue next year.

A lovely venue and setting for an airshow and one that I certainly hope can grow in the future. My thanks go to the show organiser's for putting on a great event and here's hoping for more in 2016! :clap: :smile:
My YouTube channel of all sorts (well mostly aviation): http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCgcEz-y6zzkh6ueBQH6Qvzw

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stingrays4
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Re: Old Sarum Airshow- 12th & 13th September

Post by stingrays4 »

Hi me and my brother attended the show on Saturday and had a very enjoyable day. Shame about the Vulcan but thought the commentator explained it very well and apologised and obviously said how disappointing it was for everyone.
Comments :-
Toilets perfect no queue's
Car park - had fun finding our car when we got back to the car park!
Getting out was slow but well organised - well done to the stewards.
Shops could do with more - Vulcan to the sky defiantly missed out by not being their!
As already said more for the kids to do {I do not have any but could see many kids getting 'restless' as the morning dragged on}
A program - had to copy it of a list in a window - or ask someone. To be fare the commentator did explain well what was going to happen.
Generally very happy - the two spitfires were awesome as was Ferocious Frankie and the fly by with Sally B was simply great. The WW1 display was very entertaining,and the pyro's very noisy :shock:
Will I go again - simply YES :biggrin:

jl151080
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Re: Old Sarum Airshow- 12th & 13th September

Post by jl151080 »

It would be interested to know whether the lack of attendees on Sunday was purely down to 'The Vulcan effect', or due to other factors such as the weather forecast initially not being favourable, so people stayed away.

Given the lack of attendees yesterday, it did make me wonder whether there will be another show in the future. It wouldn't be economically viable for such a small audience. I certainly hope there will be future shows, though.