Threshold.aero events

Threshold.aero events

Postby Threshold.aero on Thu 20 Sep 2018, 8:31 pm

We thought these might be of interest...

Kemble Revival Festival Nightshoot
29th September 2018
Featuring: two Canberra PR.9s, Boeing 747, Boeing 727, VFW-614, Merlin HM.2*, Wasp HAS.1
Tickets £30.00

Duxford Night Photocall
13th October 2018
Featuring: Catalina, Beech 18 and Harvard 4 Wacky Wabbit. Other aircraft still to be confirmed.
Ticket holders qualify for discounted entry, just £9.50, to IWM Duxford during the day.
Tickets £35.00

Navy Wings Night Photocall III
25th October 2018
Featuring: Phantom FG.1, Sea Harrier FA.2, Sea Fury FB.11 and T.20 and HeliOps Sea King. Other aircraft still to be confirmed.
Tickets £30.00

Spanhoe Day/Night Photocall II
10th November 2018
Featuring: Desford Trainer, Bucker Bestmann, Harvard 4 Dazzling Debs, Helio Courier and more. Other aircraft still to be confirmed.
Day ticket £20.00, whole event £30.00

*The Merlin HM.2 will not ground run.
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Threshold.aero

Re: Threshold.aero events

Postby Tommy on Fri 21 Sep 2018, 8:49 pm

Hovering at around £30 per ticket, pretty much the price of a decent airshow. The Duxford price in particular is eye-watering for what is, at the moment, just two very commonly-seen aircraft, plus an additional £9.50 for museum access.

The appeal of Threshold events to me was more that they were affordable and provided a lot of bang for one's buck. The Gazelle anniversary last year was, what, £15 per ticket, and that had a vast amount of aircraft, including military aircraft running on the day, and if I recall correctly, entrance to MAF?

Threshold can (and arguably should) charge what the market can withstand for their events, but it's a bit of a shame to see their events become increasingly expensive.
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Tommy
UKAR Staff

Re: Threshold.aero events

Postby Tom105 on Fri 21 Sep 2018, 9:37 pm

Tommy wrote:Threshold can (and arguably should) charge what the market can withstand for their events, but it's a bit of a shame to see their events become increasingly expensive.

But then again the HMS Sultan tour was free and very well organised and was brilliant few hours.
Thomas
Tom105

Re: Threshold.aero events

Postby Tommy on Fri 21 Sep 2018, 9:46 pm

Not questioning the organisation of the events - from my own experience and what others have said about other events, its of a consistently high calibre.
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Tommy
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Re: Threshold.aero events

Postby N48284 on Sat 22 Sep 2018, 6:09 pm

It always makes me laugh when people call us expensive, given the other organisations out there!

The award for most ill-informed post goes to.......
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N48284

Re: Threshold.aero events

Postby cg_341 on Sat 22 Sep 2018, 6:44 pm

I think what Andy is trying to say (noting that I'm not part of the Threshold.aero team any more) is that there's a lot of things that happen behind the scenes that can set prices higher than the guys would like, but when the chose is between those prices and no event, they have to go with it.

I know from my time on the team that we'd often have to pay airfields, operators, etc. certain sums for fuel, insurance, time, etc. that meant ticket prices had to be set at a price based on how many people we thought would attend. Obviously there's then the issue of higher ticket price means fewer people, which in turn meant a higher ticket price again!

I think we can all agree that the guys are doing their damnedest to keep costs as low as possible and if they've set the prices as they have, there's probably a good reason for it - and I know it won't be for their own profits!
cg_341

Re: Threshold.aero events

Postby Tommy on Sat 22 Sep 2018, 6:54 pm

N48284 wrote:It always makes me laugh when people call us expensive, given the other organisations out there!

The award for most ill-informed post goes to.......


Apologies for offering an opinion that wasn't unconditionally positive, I guess? I've also said that the organisation of events seems to be of a high calibre. Am I ill-informed about that, too?

I also said Threshold can and should charge what the market will allow, which those prices clearly reflect. Not a criticism. Just that, personally, it's a shame that's the market "rate" for (currently, and I know its likely more will be added) two-aircraft nightshoots these days is beyond what I could justify.

Other organisations are expensive, yeah. But whataboutery doesn't mean that by default Threshold aren't. Since its inception I've been nothing but supportive of Threshold.aero here and elsewhere. The one slightly critical post I make gets jumped upon.

Thanks for telling me to F-off on Twitter, though. Awfully kind of you. You probably forgot that we follow each other. Really made me pleased when I read that earlier today.

I suppose the next reply is something about "why don't you do your own events?!" or something. Usually is.

:dunno:
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Tommy
UKAR Staff

Re: Threshold.aero events

Postby Tommy on Sat 22 Sep 2018, 6:59 pm

cg_341 wrote:I think what Andy is trying to say (noting that I'm not part of the Threshold.aero team any more) is that there's a lot of things that happen behind the scenes that can set prices higher than the guys would like, but when the chose is between those prices and no event, they have to go with it.

I know from my time on the team that we'd often have to pay airfields, operators, etc. certain sums for fuel, insurance, time, etc. that meant ticket prices had to be set at a price based on how many people we thought would attend. Obviously there's then the issue of higher ticket price means fewer people, which in turn meant a higher ticket price again!

I think we can all agree that the guys are doing their damnedest to keep costs as low as possible and if they've set the prices as they have, there's probably a good reason for it - and I know it won't be for their own profits!


Completely fair enough. I've not said that Threshold are money-grabbing or anything sinister. It's probably far from it. It's just a shame, to me, regardless of the reasons for those prices, that prices for such events are so high as to make them personally unjustifiable.

I've got zero qualms about the events themselves, and I hope everyone who attends enjoys themselves and the organisation has plenty of sell-out events.

But as a potential customer, just saying that those prices are quite high.
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Tommy
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Re: Threshold.aero events

Postby N48284 on Sat 22 Sep 2018, 7:36 pm

Tommy,

Firstly I hadn't forgotten we follow each other on Twitter, and to be fair you probably felt the same as I did when I read your post It was nothing personal, Research I feel is an important part of life if you are going to comment on things. WE (The owners of Threshold) had decided earlier this year that we wouldn't post on here anymore as the comments that are made are not worth it. After being out voted because the others felt that the people who post on UKAR would like to be told about our events. I stated that I would guarantee that a staff member would be the first to comment about price, you didn't disappoint there (Perhaps I should share my winnings with you). When I am putting together an event the end cost to the photographer is the most important thing, each event and location throw up their own associated costs and Duxford is one of those along with any MOD Base. Finding a happy medium where we can still donate a good amount and not rip off the photographer is our main aim. The events above are all as you say hovering around the £30 mark however the event in July at Henlow was priced at £15 and there will be plenty more like that. I did see you said our events are of a consistently high calibre and thank you for that but my gripe is with the increasingly expensive comment., by being the lowest in the market means by default we are not expensive surely. Tommy if you knew how much unpaid time and effort went into organising one of our events especially the flyins, alongside a day job which we all have you'd understand why I was angry and replied as I have. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.
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N48284

Re: Threshold.aero events

Postby The Baron on Sat 22 Sep 2018, 10:18 pm

Still no need for that sort of language though, is there? On here, Twitter or anywhere else. Especially in response to what appears to be a perfectly reasonable comment.
Personally I attended the Gazelle meet and thought it fabulous value for money but I haven't wanted to fork out for the Yeovilton night shoots even though it's just down the road from me. Does that make me ill informed too?
Loafer for Mr. Da Vinci.
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The Baron

Re: Threshold.aero events

Postby farnboroughrob on Sun 23 Sep 2018, 10:13 am

I have enjoyed the Middle Wallop events but the photo events are just not my sort of things. I hope threshold just remember there are also lots of us spotters who appreciate the non photo shoot events. The MW events were both reasonably priced, just a shame the Auster event had poor weather. Would have attended the Gosport event but sold out quickly.
farnboroughrob

Re: Threshold.aero events

Postby AlexC on Sun 23 Sep 2018, 2:39 pm

Have to admit that I don't really understand the appeal of these night photo-calls, but that's probably just me.
Pte. Aubrey Gerald Harmer, R. Suss. R. (att. to the Sherwood Foresters) KIA 26/9/1917 Polygon Wood, aged 19, NKG. RIP
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AlexC

Re: Threshold.aero events

Postby Tommy on Thu 27 Sep 2018, 10:13 pm

N48284 wrote:Tommy,

Firstly I hadn't forgotten we follow each other on Twitter, and to be fair you probably felt the same as I did when I read your post It was nothing personal, Research I feel is an important part of life if you are going to comment on things. WE (The owners of Threshold) had decided earlier this year that we wouldn't post on here anymore as the comments that are made are not worth it. After being out voted because the others felt that the people who post on UKAR would like to be told about our events. I stated that I would guarantee that a staff member would be the first to comment about price, you didn't disappoint there (Perhaps I should share my winnings with you). When I am putting together an event the end cost to the photographer is the most important thing, each event and location throw up their own associated costs and Duxford is one of those along with any MOD Base. Finding a happy medium where we can still donate a good amount and not rip off the photographer is our main aim. The events above are all as you say hovering around the £30 mark however the event in July at Henlow was priced at £15 and there will be plenty more like that. I did see you said our events are of a consistently high calibre and thank you for that but my gripe is with the increasingly expensive comment., by being the lowest in the market means by default we are not expensive surely. Tommy if you knew how much unpaid time and effort went into organising one of our events especially the flyins, alongside a day job which we all have you'd understand why I was angry and replied as I have. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.



Well, it was personal, though. I'm here in a personal capacity, discussing an entity, your entity no less, but still something separate. If you were to say that UKAR as a whole could do the proverbial, I would disagree, but sure, I wouldn't take it personally. But you were talking about me as a person. So it's difficult to not take "F-off" as personal, really.

Why did you guarantee that a staff member would comment about price? On what basis? What have the current staff team ever done to put you in that mindset?

Did you, therefore, lose money when I said the following in January last year:

Tommy wrote:This looks like a decent event, and a good start for Threshold.aero. Not a bad price, either - I can actually accommodate travel costs with that ticket price..

I might have to go for this one. :up:


or when I said:

Tommy wrote:...A decent event by Threshold.Aero; well managed, reasonably priced, and a lot on offer. I think we can see good things from them in years to come if they keep up this kind of work.


So what kind of comments do you refer to on UKAR that make this place unviable for Threshold?

Or is it simply that UKAR is UKAR, and it has a bitter and sour and moaning reputation, inspired (encouraged?) by people in positions of power, whom are now long-gone from the staff team? I get that. I've found this place to be particularly unpleasant at times.

N48284 wrote:my gripe is with the increasingly expensive comment., by being the lowest in the market means by default we are not expensive surely. Tommy if you knew how much unpaid time and effort went into organising one of our events especially the flyins, alongside a day job which we all have you'd understand why I was angry and replied as I have. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.


Well, your gripe on Twitter was about the "eye-watering" comment. Which, I still think it is, by the way. That can very much change as/when more aircraft are announced (that's the gift of opinions - they can change), but yeah, £35.00 for two aircraft, one being very familiar is in my mind eye-watering. If an airshow promised the same with less than three weeks to go I would have felt exactly the same about it.

I'm happy to take the word "increasingly" away and just put "expensive". The NavyWings shoot is the same price as it was last year and I didn't check that, so fair enough. I shouldn't have said "increasingly expensive".

N48284 wrote:by being the lowest in the market means by default we are not expensive surely


Depends what you compare it with, but I wouldn't say by default, no. £30 is £30. To some people earning good money, that's nothing. To others, it's an enormous sum. Just because everyone else out there is more expensive than your outfit does not mean that by default you yourselves are not expensive.

N48284 wrote:if you knew how much unpaid time and effort went into organising one of our events especially the flyins, alongside a day job which we all have you'd understand why I was angry and replied as I have. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.


I don't know. I've no way of knowing. As a staff member here, I do know how hard it is to volunteer a considerable amount of time to something. Not only that, but the staff team is paying for UKAR out of their own pockets. This place isn't free. We pay for this as much as we can to ensure that a neutral and unbiased discussion forum can still be a source of interest to enthusiasts. So it's hard when we see people slag this place off because of some legacy built by toxic opinions and an even more toxic attitude that the current team weren't a part of. But regardless, we don't go around telling those people to to do one.

I have never accused you guys of profiteering, cynicism, rip-offs, or taking enthusiasts for mugs. I've consistently sang Threshold's praises from my own volition (and UKAR's, where social media plugging was concerned) and I think you guys are probably some of the best in the business. It was with that in mind, and that I am a potential customer, that I would have hoped that my comments were taken for genuine feedback, rather than an attempt to slag you off. I've said more positive than negative about Threshold.aero, and it's disappointing you haven't seen that.

So, yeah, I shouldn't have said "increasingly expsneive". That was wrong. I should have just said "expensive". But for what it is, yeah, I consider £35 plus £9.50 for museum entry (plus travel, accommodation et al) eye-wateringly expensive.

I'm sure that, to others, it's absolutely fine, and you guys will have a good turn out for that event. I hope you do. And I hope decent money gets put to decent causes.

But I can't lie and say I'm not a little soured by being told to F-off for expressing a pretty tame opinion. If you want people's money, there will be someone who questions the price. I think it was a pretty significant overreaction. Especially given that I'm not the first person to express concerns over pricing, and I'm not sure I've seen the same defensiveness to the same opinions.
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Tommy
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Re: Threshold.aero events

Postby AMB on Thu 27 Sep 2018, 11:11 pm

AlexC wrote:Have to admit that I don't really understand the appeal of these night photo-calls, but that's probably just me.

No not just you Alex. The Northolt nightshoot events started off being really good with the combination of some rare and interesting aircraft and helicopters, some of which ran their engines up under bright military stancion lighting. But I can't see the appeal of paying to shoot a half dozen common static aircraft that most of us have in daylight anyway, under some portable lightning. Alas, yet again Health & Safety has to ruin these events and now nothing is allowed to even run its engines up!
Adrian
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AMB

Re: Threshold.aero events

Postby rockfordstone on Tue 02 Oct 2018, 2:21 pm

ignoring the price, are these events well run?

i've considered the Duxford one given i already have a membership
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rockfordstone

Re: Threshold.aero events

Postby Tommy on Tue 02 Oct 2018, 4:26 pm

rockfordstone wrote:ignoring the price, are these events well run?


From the limited experience I have, yes, very. I've yet to see a bad word about their organisation from that point of view. Some of my other friends both on and off the staff team have been equally positive about their events.
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Tommy
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Re: Threshold.aero events

Postby cg_341 on Tue 02 Oct 2018, 6:48 pm

I think they're very well run... :whistle:
cg_341

Re: Threshold.aero events

Postby Hammy on Tue 02 Oct 2018, 7:21 pm

Hurricane G-HRLI/V7497 now confirmed for the Duxford event, along with the previously announced Harvard, Beech 18 and Catalina.

The Hurricane will run subject to pilot availability.
Author, visionary, dreamweaver... Plus actor.

Threshold.aero
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Hammy

Re: Threshold.aero events

Postby Frogfoot on Wed 03 Oct 2018, 10:01 pm

Are there likely to be engine runs at the Navy Wings Photocall?
Frogfoot

Re: Threshold.aero events

Postby rockfordstone on Thu 04 Oct 2018, 11:44 am

i decided to book on to the Duxford one. hope the weather remains good for it
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rockfordstone

Re: Threshold.aero events

Postby Hammy on Thu 04 Oct 2018, 9:38 pm

Westland Wasp HAS.1B G-BYCX/92 and Percival Provost G-MOOS/XF690 are recent confirmations for the Navy Wings Night Photocall on 25th October.

Frogfoot wrote:Are there likely to be engine runs at the Navy Wings Photocall?


We're doing everything we can to make it possible for aircraft to run engines, and are still awaiting a decision from RNAS Yeovilton.
Author, visionary, dreamweaver... Plus actor.

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Re: Threshold.aero events

Postby rockfordstone on Fri 12 Oct 2018, 10:24 am

just a heads up for anyone who has not had the email, the Duxford event this weekend has been cancelled due to concerns about the weather
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