Eastbourne

Re: Eastbourne

Postby Zoom on Mon 15 Aug 2016, 10:17 am

iGol66 wrote:
Zoom wrote:Hello; my first post on here!

I've never found the vantage point on Beachy Head that good (apart from 2005 when the DHL 757 came very close overhead!) and usually end up rolling down the hill by bicycle to the sea front. Decided to keep my Brownie points for Jersey this year and after watching the Sea Vixen's curtailed flypast on the live feed I think it was a good choice. Hoping to catch her at Dunsfold as well although presumably that's a just a sedate flypast too?


The Vixen performs a very energetic 8 minute display, its display at Eastbourne was only a couple of sedate flypasts due to an issue with its flaps. She returned back to base safely but only as a precaution. It'll do a full display at Dunsfold.


thanks; I saw her at Bournemouth last year (same day as Shoreham :sad: ) and remember reading that loops over land were now prohibited, I don't think I've seen a historic jet over land display since so not sure what the restrictions are
Zoom

Re: Eastbourne

Postby SimonR on Mon 15 Aug 2016, 5:52 pm

paullangford wrote:If you feel like you had a wasted trip to Beachy Head, like I did.........let the Tourist Information Centre know.
Beachy Head is listed on their website as a place to view...............which it isn't anymore, and why things have changed is beyond me.

Here's their email address;

tic@eastbourne.gov.uk


Thanks Paul - I just wrote the following email to the Tourist Information Centre and very quickly got a reply saying that it had been passed on to the relevant person. It might make no difference at all but I thought it couldn't hurt. I'll let you know what I hear from the event organisers.

Hello Eastbourne Tourist Information Centre,

I am writing to you in the hope that you can forward this message onto the relevant people who might be able to make a difference.

We loved Airbourne this year on the days that we chose to watch from the seafront, just as we have the last five and felt it well worth the £20 we put in the collector's bucket on Sunday, and the 120 mile drive from Cambridge, not to mention the cost of a holiday cottage for a week - it's a great event.

The jewel in Airbourne's crown (for us and a lot of international visitors and locals) has always been the unique photograph opportunities that an afternoon on Beachy Head provides. Nowhere else measured up in terms of the closeness of aircraft and the fact that you would be looking down on them with the sea / lighthouse providing a superb backdrop. It was clear that in the past, pilots have enjoyed displaying their aircraft off to the assembled masses on Beachy Head just as much as we have enjoyed watching / photographing them.

Sadly this year, our afternoon on Beachy Head was a huge disappointment. Aircraft were passing high and wide all afternoon and I can only assume that they had been told to stay away from the area. I'm assuming that this is as a result of the Shoreham disaster and the new CAA regulations - it seems that Airbourne's baby has been thrown out with its bathwater.

The reason for this email is to suggest that the organisers find a better way to apply the CAA regulations, just as other airshows have, particularly Old Warden. It's very difficult to see what danger any secondary crowd (such as that on Beachy Head) would be in with aircraft flying close to the cliffs, over the sea.

Please do pass this message on to the organisers in the hope that they can find a solution to keep the CAA happy but also keep a legendary viewing point in modern airshow attendance alive and well.

Many thanks for your time - and please do also pass my thanks onto Airbourne's organisers, hopefully with a slight tweak of guidelines 2017 will be back to business as normal.

Yours faithfully,

Simon
SimonR

Re: Eastbourne

Postby paullangford on Mon 15 Aug 2016, 7:56 pm

SimonR wrote:
paullangford wrote:If you feel like you had a wasted trip to Beachy Head, like I did.........let the Tourist Information Centre know.
Beachy Head is listed on their website as a place to view...............which it isn't anymore, and why things have changed is beyond me.

Here's their email address;

tic@eastbourne.gov.uk


Thanks Paul - I just wrote the following email to the Tourist Information Centre and very quickly got a reply saying that it had been passed on to the relevant person. It might make no difference at all but I thought it couldn't hurt. I'll let you know what I hear from the event organisers.

Hello Eastbourne Tourist Information Centre,

I am writing to you in the hope that you can forward this message onto the relevant people who might be able to make a difference.

We loved Airbourne this year on the days that we chose to watch from the seafront, just as we have the last five and felt it well worth the £20 we put in the collector's bucket on Sunday, and the 120 mile drive from Cambridge, not to mention the cost of a holiday cottage for a week - it's a great event.

The jewel in Airbourne's crown (for us and a lot of international visitors and locals) has always been the unique photograph opportunities that an afternoon on Beachy Head provides. Nowhere else measured up in terms of the closeness of aircraft and the fact that you would be looking down on them with the sea / lighthouse providing a superb backdrop. It was clear that in the past, pilots have enjoyed displaying their aircraft off to the assembled masses on Beachy Head just as much as we have enjoyed watching / photographing them.

Sadly this year, our afternoon on Beachy Head was a huge disappointment. Aircraft were passing high and wide all afternoon and I can only assume that they had been told to stay away from the area. I'm assuming that this is as a result of the Shoreham disaster and the new CAA regulations - it seems that Airbourne's baby has been thrown out with its bathwater.

The reason for this email is to suggest that the organisers find a better way to apply the CAA regulations, just as other airshows have, particularly Old Warden. It's very difficult to see what danger any secondary crowd (such as that on Beachy Head) would be in with aircraft flying close to the cliffs, over the sea.

Please do pass this message on to the organisers in the hope that they can find a solution to keep the CAA happy but also keep a legendary viewing point in modern airshow attendance alive and well.

Many thanks for your time - and please do also pass my thanks onto Airbourne's organisers, hopefully with a slight tweak of guidelines 2017 will be back to business as normal.

Yours faithfully,

Simon


Hi Simon,

Yes I emailed them as well with a very similar content to yours.
I also thanked them for going ahead with the airshow this year, in what must be testing times.
I also recieved a very quick reply, which was good news;
"I am sorry that you could not see the aircraft from Beachy Head this year,
I have forwarded your email to the Event organiser, who will look in to your complaint"


Lets see what responses we get..................if you don't ask you don't get :icecream:
User avatar
paullangford

Re: Eastbourne

Postby MC hammer on Mon 15 Aug 2016, 10:30 pm

paullangford wrote:
SimonR wrote:
paullangford wrote:If you feel like you had a wasted trip to Beachy Head, like I did.........let the Tourist Information Centre know.
Beachy Head is listed on their website as a place to view...............which it isn't anymore, and why things have changed is beyond me.

Here's their email address;

tic@eastbourne.gov.uk


Thanks Paul - I just wrote the following email to the Tourist Information Centre and very quickly got a reply saying that it had been passed on to the relevant person. It might make no difference at all but I thought it couldn't hurt. I'll let you know what I hear from the event organisers.

Hello Eastbourne Tourist Information Centre,

I am writing to you in the hope that you can forward this message onto the relevant people who might be able to make a difference.

We loved Airbourne this year on the days that we chose to watch from the seafront, just as we have the last five and felt it well worth the £20 we put in the collector's bucket on Sunday, and the 120 mile drive from Cambridge, not to mention the cost of a holiday cottage for a week - it's a great event.

The jewel in Airbourne's crown (for us and a lot of international visitors and locals) has always been the unique photograph opportunities that an afternoon on Beachy Head provides. Nowhere else measured up in terms of the closeness of aircraft and the fact that you would be looking down on them with the sea / lighthouse providing a superb backdrop. It was clear that in the past, pilots have enjoyed displaying their aircraft off to the assembled masses on Beachy Head just as much as we have enjoyed watching / photographing them.

Sadly this year, our afternoon on Beachy Head was a huge disappointment. Aircraft were passing high and wide all afternoon and I can only assume that they had been told to stay away from the area. I'm assuming that this is as a result of the Shoreham disaster and the new CAA regulations - it seems that Airbourne's baby has been thrown out with its bathwater.

The reason for this email is to suggest that the organisers find a better way to apply the CAA regulations, just as other airshows have, particularly Old Warden. It's very difficult to see what danger any secondary crowd (such as that on Beachy Head) would be in with aircraft flying close to the cliffs, over the sea.

Please do pass this message on to the organisers in the hope that they can find a solution to keep the CAA happy but also keep a legendary viewing point in modern airshow attendance alive and well.

Many thanks for your time - and please do also pass my thanks onto Airbourne's organisers, hopefully with a slight tweak of guidelines 2017 will be back to business as normal.

Yours faithfully,

Simon


Hi Simon,

Yes I emailed them as well with a very similar content to yours.
I also thanked them for going ahead with the airshow this year, in what must be testing times.
I also recieved a very quick reply, which was good news;
"I am sorry that you could not see the aircraft from Beachy Head this year,
I have forwarded your email to the Event organiser, who will look in to your complaint"


Lets see what responses we get..................if you don't ask you don't get :icecream:



When/if you get a reply, it will be interesting to see if anyone actually confirms whether there was in fact advice to pilots to avoid Beachy Head or whether we were just unlucky this year.
As I've said in a previous post, aircraft have frustrated the waiting cameras up there plenty of times in previous years and most of the acts which have saved the day in the past were missing anyway. Coupled with that is the fact that the odd thing did get quite close, which would be going against the requirement to steer clear, if indeed there was such a requirement. If there was such advice, then routing aircraft over the secondary crowd, rather than around and below them, defies any logic whatsoever.
I will reserve judgement until next year, although being one who likes modern military, it remains to be seen what commitment there will be to the dwindling airshow circuit from the UK armed forces.
MC hammer

Re: Eastbourne

Postby paullangford on Tue 16 Aug 2016, 2:06 pm

A Reply from Airbourne

Thank you for visiting the Eastbourne's free air show and the feedback you have given. We need to control the parking at Beachy Head as many areas of the grass are SSI areas (areas of Special Scientific Interest) and have regulations imposed by Natural England as to where vehicles can park. As such we have to levy a small charge to cover the staff / contractor costs needed to manage the number of vehicles that attend the free air show .

This fee also contributes to offset the staging costs of the free airshow which are now approaching a financial risk of £0.5M.This figure is netted off with any income we can achieve from car parking, programme sales, concessions, donations, trade stands, hospitality sales and sponsorship, then any subsequent outstanding net cost is paid for by the council tax payers of Eastbourne being a contribution to pump prime economic benefit and PR awareness for the resort which ultimately benefits the town and the surrounding region.

On our web site the information on Beachy Head viewing says it offers a different perspective to view and as you can see we did state that all displays would take place on the display line between the Western Lawns and the Pier.

http://www.eastbourneairshow.com/Visit.aspx

To enable the show to take place we have to install a buoyed display line for the aircraft to display to and this is no different to other years, except that we installed a second line at 450m from the water mark in addition to the normal 230m. This was because the heavier aircraft and jets are now no longer allowed to display on the 230m line. We could have just installed one 450m buoy line and had all displays fly to this but took the view that a 2nd line at the original 230m would enable those aircraft that under the new regulations could display at that distance could fly closer to the crowd line thus ensuring the majority of displaying aircraft could display as close to the crowd within the current regulations.

What has changed this year is that the new CAA regulations which now apply post the Shoreham tragedy compel the displays to avoid areas of "secondary crowd". Beachy Head is currently deemed as "secondary crowd" in the flying display risk assessment which has to be approved by the CAA before any flying takes place. Therefore over flys of such areas are now not allowed at any show in the UK within the new regulations to ensure public safety. If you wish to read the whole document it is here:

http://publicapps.caa.co.uk/modalapplic ... il&id=7318

The increased costs this year imposed through the new CAA regulations relating to new equipment and fees payable to the CAA pre and post the show added circa an additional £10,000 to the staging cost with no perceptible difference in look for the majority of visitors other than the "secondary crowd" views.

Post this year's air show season there will no doubt be much discussion within the " airshow industry" and at the British Air Display Assn conference in November as to the interpretation of the new regulations and if any can be relaxed from the current one size fits all approach, whilst still maintaining the safety of the viewing public who in their millions visit UK air shows.

Thank you for taking the time to feed back to us on your visit.



my reply

Thank you for your quick response.

I fully appreciate the pressures you must be under now, post Shoreham, and I also appreciate your supplying of the very detailed descriptions of the display restrictions you now have to operate under.

In the past, one of the major draws of viewing and photographing from Beachy Head, was the close and low level proximity of the transiting incoming and outgoing aircraft.
Occasionally you may also get on overflight from one of the aircraft, as part of the display, or as an outgoing transit.
For the most part, aircraft displays are distant and over by the pier, so viewing "the displays" are not best served from Beachy Head, it's all about the transits and occasional overflight.

This weekend there seemed to be in evidence a major shift of aircraft avoiding the area completely.

I understand the importance of the new rules governing display distances and separations from crowds during a display, but for the most part the aircraft around Beachy Head are transiting, not displaying, and are lower than the crowds on the cliffs, and over the sea.

It didn't make any sense to me what was happening last weekend, although here's a couple of exceptions;

1) The BBMF transited in around the Lighthouse at the usual distance and height, everything else was above the clouds or miles away during their transits.
2)The Red Arrows singletons came up and over the cliffs a couple of times as per previous years, so no change there except their new routines, even though we are now classed as a "secondary crowd"

For me, it was a wasted trip, although I'm happy for my £5:00 parking fee to be used where you see fit.
I still can't honestly see why nearly all of the aircraft were avoiding the area, as it is a transit point over the sea, even with the post Shoreham restrictions.
I fully understand the overflight issues with secondary crowds in that area, but just transiting past lower than the crowd over the sea ?...............I'm sorry I don't.

Beachy Head was always a unique viewpoint, and it's greatest attraction for me and many others could be over, which is sad.

I do however, really appreciate all the effort you and your staff must produce to put on this show, and I hope you continue to do so.

As a gesture of goodwill, I have donated on your website.



Airbourne's reply;

Thanks for you further feedback and you kind donation.

I can understand that the attraction of Beachy Head as an iconic photography location has diminished to practically non- existent.

I will share these thread with our display directing team so they are aware and can feed back to post season wash ups in the hope that shows may be able to be assessed on local conditions rather than national regulations in the future.


I'd like to thank Airbourne for getting back to me really quickly and honestly, they're obviously shackled with these new restrictions, but hopefully common sense will prevail next year and after the Shoreham inquest is finished, and we'll get Beachy Head back.

Paul L
User avatar
paullangford

Re: Eastbourne

Postby Jakub.Zurek on Tue 16 Aug 2016, 3:43 pm

paullangford wrote:A Reply from Airbourne

"Therefore over flys of such areas are now not allowed at any show in the UK within the new regulations to ensure public safety."


Yet some things entered right overhead Beachy Head and surrounding areas, surely that is more dangerous than entering over the sea at a normal safe distance away from Beachy Head :dunno:
Similarly you could see from Beachy Head how the displays were practically over the boats too.

paullangford wrote:I'd like to thank Airbourne for getting back to me really quickly and honestly, they're obviously shackled with these new restrictions, but hopefully common sense will prevail next year and after the Shoreham inquest is finished, and we'll get Beachy Head back.


Yep, very nice and professional of them to offer a detailed reply to you and let's hope Beachy Head returns to being an excellent and unique viewing spot.
User avatar
Jakub.Zurek
UKAR Staff

Re: Eastbourne

Postby King Cobra on Tue 16 Aug 2016, 6:55 pm

Jakub.Zurek wrote:
paullangford wrote:A Reply from Airbourne

"Therefore over flys of such areas are now not allowed at any show in the UK within the new regulations to ensure public safety."


Yet some things entered right overhead Beachy Head and surrounding areas, surely that is more dangerous than entering over the sea at a normal safe distance away from Beachy Head :dunno:
Similarly you could see from Beachy Head how the displays were practically over the boats too.

paullangford wrote:I'd like to thank Airbourne for getting back to me really quickly and honestly, they're obviously shackled with these new restrictions, but hopefully common sense will prevail next year and after the Shoreham inquest is finished, and we'll get Beachy Head back.


Yep, very nice and professional of them to offer a detailed reply to you and let's hope Beachy Head returns to being an excellent and unique viewing spot.


Quite so. I was at Beachy Head on Sunday and the Spitfire 9 came right over us on his run in, other acts entered between the Head and the town so not sure how they were avoiding secondary crowds but they were quite high.
King Cobra

Re: Eastbourne

Postby MC hammer on Tue 16 Aug 2016, 7:25 pm

Well I can't fault Airbourne for a swift and detailed reply, rather than the bland replies one would normally expect in such situations, where the reply raises more questions than it answers. It seems a shame to give negative feedback when it is obvious that they have a difficult job bringing everything together.

Despite your best efforts Paul, and I think your eloquent initial e-mail represents us like minded souls on this forum very well, I'm not entirely sure they grasped the difference between flying over the secondary crowd on Beachy head and flying around the secondary crowd on Beachy Head, ie over the sea. However you addressed that with your follow up reply and it would seem they are interested enough for the situation to be classed as on going regards another reply.

Thanks for taking the trouble to take this up with them and we will see what develops from here.
MC hammer

Re: Eastbourne

Postby King Cobra on Tue 16 Aug 2016, 7:37 pm

I've e-mailed them on similar lines to others. I suspect the reply will be in the same vein as was Paul's. Hopefully they will take these views on board and produce something approaching the Beach Head of old for next year.
King Cobra

Re: Eastbourne

Postby paullangford on Tue 16 Aug 2016, 7:52 pm

MC hammer wrote:Well I can't fault Airbourne for a swift and detailed reply, rather than the bland replies one would normally expect in such situations, where the reply raises more questions than it answers. It seems a shame to give negative feedback when it is obvious that they have a difficult job bringing everything together.

Despite your best efforts Paul, and I think your eloquent initial e-mail represents us like minded souls on this forum very well, I'm not entirely sure they grasped the difference between flying over the secondary crowd on Beachy head and flying around the secondary crowd on Beachy Head, ie over the sea. However you addressed that with your follow up reply and it would seem they are interested enough for the situation to be classed as on going regards another reply.

Thanks for taking the trouble to take this up with them and we will see what develops from here.


Thanks MC Hammer.
To get the best out of a situation, I find it best to talk to people....nicely. No one wants to read a rant and then deal with it.
I'm sure they are as frustrated as we all are, we all live in uncertain times in this hobby, but the glimmer of hope for me as was at the end of the communication where they say "...........hope that shows may be able to be assessed on local conditions rather than national regulations in the future".
We've seen that at places such as Shuttleworth already, and if the CAA earn the extra money their asking for, hopefully that will become a reality.

At the end of the day, Eastbourne produced a 4 day FREE airshow for us, others have not put on a show this year, and for that I'm grateful and a happy bunny :smile:
User avatar
paullangford

Re: Eastbourne

Postby paullangford on Tue 16 Aug 2016, 8:02 pm

King Cobra wrote:I've e-mailed them on similar lines to others. I suspect the reply will be in the same vein as was Paul's. Hopefully they will take these views on board and produce something approaching the Beach Head of old for next year.


Thanks King Cobra for taking the time out and emailing them.
Feedback, good or bad, is important for anyone producing an event or show................even the Red Arrows subject themselves to it.
It looks like they are taking all comments onboard, which is a good thing and pro active.
It'll be interesting to see what your reply will be :smile:
User avatar
paullangford

Re: Eastbourne

Postby Zoom on Wed 17 Aug 2016, 6:49 am

Tbolt wrote:
Zoom wrote:Hello; my first post on here!

I've never found the vantage point on Beachy Head that good (apart from 2005 when the DHL 757 came very close overhead!) and usually end up rolling down the hill by bicycle to the sea front. Decided to keep my Brownie points for Jersey this year and after watching the Sea Vixen's curtailed flypast on the live feed I think it was a good choice. Hoping to catch her at Dunsfold as well although presumably that's a just a sedate flypast too?


Hi and welcome. I've found Beachy Head pretty good, always nice to get some different angles over the water, the shots of the Vulcan last year are probably the best I've got of her.


Yes Beachy Head is probably a very good photographic spot (or was) I was talking from a general observation POV; my camera is nowhere near good enough so I don't take photos any more just enjoy looking at the superb shots others take :smile:
Zoom

Re: Eastbourne

Postby tuska2 on Wed 17 Aug 2016, 8:11 am

As Jakub.Zurek pointed out, many of the displays were over the boats, I counted 65 boats at one time, with several having at least 5 or 6 visible occupants. In
fact it was easy to believe the displays were for the benefit of them, not the many thousands on the beach and surrounds ! Meanwhile spectators at the advertised viewing point at Beachy Head got to see Seagulls!
tuska2

Re: Eastbourne

Postby SimonR on Wed 17 Aug 2016, 9:39 am

Just to confirm that I've received a very similar reply and indeed sent a similar one back. I'm impressed with Airbourne in general and communicating with the show's organisers makes me more so. There appears to be a possible solution available here which will satisfy all parties so hopefully common sense can prevail.

I think I'll follow this correspondence up by getting in touch with the British Air Display Association before their conference in November, and point out what we've been discussing here, i.e. that it should be possible for everyone to be safe and in line with CAA requirements but hopefully still preserve viewing points for secondary crowds such as on Beachy Head.
SimonR

Re: Eastbourne

Postby paullangford on Wed 17 Aug 2016, 11:20 am

SimonR wrote:Just to confirm that I've received a very similar reply and indeed sent a similar one back. I'm impressed with Airbourne in general and communicating with the show's organisers makes me more so. There appears to be a possible solution available here which will satisfy all parties so hopefully common sense can prevail.

I think I'll follow this correspondence up by getting in touch with the British Air Display Association before their conference in November, and point out what we've been discussing here, i.e. that it should be possible for everyone to be safe and in line with CAA requirements but hopefully still preserve viewing points for secondary crowds such as on Beachy Head.


Good Idea :up:
User avatar
paullangford

Re: Eastbourne

Postby SimonR on Wed 17 Aug 2016, 8:53 pm

I got another reply from Airbourne's organisers today, this time with a message from the Display Director. It's very good of them to take the time to respond further. I've replied to them and copied my email below. Their initial response is in bold/italic and my reply is in normal font.

"Thanks again - very good of them to take the time to respond. In the spirit of constructiveness, I think I'd reply as follows:

“We put on the best display that we can for the visitors to the event site on Eastbourne seafront as that is the primary crowd and the area where we have the Article 162 Permission in place which legally covers us and the pilots. The aircraft transiting to the event could equally choose to use the Pevensey hold instead, or the Town hold so the photographers were always only going to get what happened to route past that way on any given day."

Agreed - this is the same as every year we've attended: we only ever saw those aircraft entering/exiting the display line in the Beachy Head direction. Thankfully often a lot of them did and I suspect that when the pilots knew that there would be an appreciative crowd waiting, it probably encouraged them to fly past the lighthouse, rather than up and over the cliffs between the display line and Beachy Head. Certainly most if not all of the RAF teams seemed to take great delight in showing off their aircraft in this way.

"Given the new risk assessment and crowd classification process we have no option but to categorise the secondary and incidental crowd and plan the display and transit routes accordingly."

It's this that gets to the heart of the matter: if the above means that pilots were told not to over-fly the cliffs then that would seem to be in line with the CAA requirements and also seems very sensible. However, if it's the case this year that the pilots were told to avoid flying past Beachy Head as they traditionally have, and instead keep high and far out to sea then I can't understand the reasoning behind this - and it's that one issue alone that made me decide to contact you. I don't see any safety justification for them to take that route past Beachy Head - they're below the level of the assembled crowd and also flying over open sea.

"If the photographers want to guarantee photographing the display aircraft then they need to do it in the vicinity of the display area, if they want to take their chances on Beachy Head then fair enough but we have never guaranteed them photo opportunities and it will always be subject to display regulations and how we manage the Flying Programme and de -conflict participating aircraft."


All I would like to add is that the display area offers photographers the same kinds of shots that they can get at every other airshow: i.e. aeroplanes in the sky. The magic of Airbourne has always been the day we spent on Beachy Head getting some amazing one-off shots of aircraft with some stunning backgrounds. There aren't many other air shows where you can look down on transiting aircraft and photograph them with a beautiful marine background!

Anyway, thanks again for your efforts, we really appreciate the work that goes into Airbourne.

All the best,

Simon."
SimonR

Re: Eastbourne

Postby paullangford on Wed 17 Aug 2016, 9:26 pm

SimonR wrote:I got another reply from Airbourne's organisers today, this time with a message from the Display Director. It's very good of them to take the time to respond further. I've replied to them and copied my email below. Their initial response is in bold/italic and my reply is in normal font.

"Thanks again - very good of them to take the time to respond. In the spirit of constructiveness, I think I'd reply as follows:

“We put on the best display that we can for the visitors to the event site on Eastbourne seafront as that is the primary crowd and the area where we have the Article 162 Permission in place which legally covers us and the pilots. The aircraft transiting to the event could equally choose to use the Pevensey hold instead, or the Town hold so the photographers were always only going to get what happened to route past that way on any given day."

Agreed - this is the same as every year we've attended: we only ever saw those aircraft entering/exiting the display line in the Beachy Head direction. Thankfully often a lot of them did and I suspect that when the pilots knew that there would be an appreciative crowd waiting, it probably encouraged them to fly past the lighthouse, rather than up and over the cliffs between the display line and Beachy Head. Certainly most if not all of the RAF teams seemed to take great delight in showing off their aircraft in this way.

"Given the new risk assessment and crowd classification process we have no option but to categorise the secondary and incidental crowd and plan the display and transit routes accordingly."

It's this that gets to the heart of the matter: if the above means that pilots were told not to over-fly the cliffs then that would seem to be in line with the CAA requirements and also seems very sensible. However, if it's the case this year that the pilots were told to avoid flying past Beachy Head as they traditionally have, and instead keep high and far out to sea then I can't understand the reasoning behind this - and it's that one issue alone that made me decide to contact you. I don't see any safety justification for them to take that route past Beachy Head - they're below the level of the assembled crowd and also flying over open sea.

"If the photographers want to guarantee photographing the display aircraft then they need to do it in the vicinity of the display area, if they want to take their chances on Beachy Head then fair enough but we have never guaranteed them photo opportunities and it will always be subject to display regulations and how we manage the Flying Programme and de -conflict participating aircraft."


All I would like to add is that the display area offers photographers the same kinds of shots that they can get at every other airshow: i.e. aeroplanes in the sky. The magic of Airbourne has always been the day we spent on Beachy Head getting some amazing one-off shots of aircraft with some stunning backgrounds. There aren't many other air shows where you can look down on transiting aircraft and photograph them with a beautiful marine background!

Anyway, thanks again for your efforts, we really appreciate the work that goes into Airbourne.

All the best,

Simon."


Thanks for posting the reply.
Great of them to communicate, lets see what next year will bring...............although it doesn't bode well for Smugglers at Dawlish in my mind.
User avatar
paullangford

Re: Eastbourne

Postby hairrig on Wed 17 Aug 2016, 9:41 pm

paullangford wrote:
SimonR wrote:I got another reply from Airbourne's organisers today, this time with a message from the Display Director. It's very good of them to take the time to respond further. I've replied to them and copied my email below. Their initial response is in bold/italic and my reply is in normal font.

"Thanks again - very good of them to take the time to respond. In the spirit of constructiveness, I think I'd reply as follows:

“We put on the best display that we can for the visitors to the event site on Eastbourne seafront as that is the primary crowd and the area where we have the Article 162 Permission in place which legally covers us and the pilots. The aircraft transiting to the event could equally choose to use the Pevensey hold instead, or the Town hold so the photographers were always only going to get what happened to route past that way on any given day."

Agreed - this is the same as every year we've attended: we only ever saw those aircraft entering/exiting the display line in the Beachy Head direction. Thankfully often a lot of them did and I suspect that when the pilots knew that there would be an appreciative crowd waiting, it probably encouraged them to fly past the lighthouse, rather than up and over the cliffs between the display line and Beachy Head. Certainly most if not all of the RAF teams seemed to take great delight in showing off their aircraft in this way.

"Given the new risk assessment and crowd classification process we have no option but to categorise the secondary and incidental crowd and plan the display and transit routes accordingly."

It's this that gets to the heart of the matter: if the above means that pilots were told not to over-fly the cliffs then that would seem to be in line with the CAA requirements and also seems very sensible. However, if it's the case this year that the pilots were told to avoid flying past Beachy Head as they traditionally have, and instead keep high and far out to sea then I can't understand the reasoning behind this - and it's that one issue alone that made me decide to contact you. I don't see any safety justification for them to take that route past Beachy Head - they're below the level of the assembled crowd and also flying over open sea.

"If the photographers want to guarantee photographing the display aircraft then they need to do it in the vicinity of the display area, if they want to take their chances on Beachy Head then fair enough but we have never guaranteed them photo opportunities and it will always be subject to display regulations and how we manage the Flying Programme and de -conflict participating aircraft."


All I would like to add is that the display area offers photographers the same kinds of shots that they can get at every other airshow: i.e. aeroplanes in the sky. The magic of Airbourne has always been the day we spent on Beachy Head getting some amazing one-off shots of aircraft with some stunning backgrounds. There aren't many other air shows where you can look down on transiting aircraft and photograph them with a beautiful marine background!

Anyway, thanks again for your efforts, we really appreciate the work that goes into Airbourne.

All the best,

Simon."


Thanks for posting the reply.
Great of them to communicate, lets see what next year will bring...............although it doesn't bode well for Smugglers at Dawlish in my mind.


Think that's already dead Paul.

http://m.torquayheraldexpress.co.uk/cli ... story.html
User avatar
hairrig

Re: Eastbourne

Postby paullangford on Thu 18 Aug 2016, 6:32 am

hairrig wrote:
paullangford wrote:
Think that's already dead Paul.

http://m.torquayheraldexpress.co.uk/cli ... story.html


............oooh the irony............The Herald have seemed to have used every photo in the report from Smugglers
User avatar
paullangford

Re: Eastbourne

Postby SimonR on Thu 18 Aug 2016, 8:22 am

I thought the same thing!

"This is what you could have had!"
SimonR

Re: Eastbourne

Postby capercaillie on Thu 18 Aug 2016, 9:17 am

"Viewers will be banned from the cliff-top fields and paths that flank the town to ensure that there is plenty of empty space around the display area in case a forced landing is necessary."

I think if they are attempting a forced landing around Smugglers in a Hawk its called crashing! :hide:

Note if Dawlish airshow hopefully returns please don't book the Red Arrows. :whistle:
"The surrogate voice of st24"
User avatar
capercaillie

Re: Eastbourne

Postby King Cobra on Thu 18 Aug 2016, 10:07 am

paullangford wrote:
King Cobra wrote:I've e-mailed them on similar lines to others. I suspect the reply will be in the same vein as was Paul's. Hopefully they will take these views on board and produce something approaching the Beach Head of old for next year.


Thanks King Cobra for taking the time out and emailing them.
Feedback, good or bad, is important for anyone producing an event or show................even the Red Arrows subject themselves to it.
It looks like they are taking all comments onboard, which is a good thing and pro active.
It'll be interesting to see what your reply will be :smile:


Not got a reply yet but I suspect it's a small team and they've a lot on their plate at present.
King Cobra

Previous

Return to Seaside Shows

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: McG and 4 guests