Eastbourne

Re: Eastbourne

Postby CameronSys on Sat 13 Aug 2016, 5:55 pm

Hopefully tomorrow is much better then, as I've already paid for accommodation tomorrow night..!

Poor show to list Beachy Head as an official viewing location then actively ruin the view available from there.
User avatar
CameronSys

Re: Eastbourne

Postby Offbreed on Sat 13 Aug 2016, 6:13 pm

Definitely a different feel to the place at Beachy Head this year, aircraft seem to be giving it a wide berth, or going past high, the BBMF was impressive, but that's about it for the day, I don't hold out much hope for a epic Sea Vixen flypast at Beachy, so it's fingers crossed for Sunday.
User avatar
Offbreed

Re: Eastbourne

Postby Tbolt on Sat 13 Aug 2016, 6:16 pm

CameronSys wrote:Hopefully tomorrow is much better then, as I've already paid for accommodation tomorrow night..!

Poor show to list Beachy Head as an official viewing location then actively ruin the view available from there.


It does say it's a good place to watch the show and obviously they are not talking about the entrances and exits, but we know there is only one reason people go there and it's not to watch the displays otherwise they would go closer to Eastbourne.

Anyway see what you think of tomorrows display, you might need that 810 in DX quite a bit!
User avatar
Tbolt

Re: Eastbourne

Postby Tbolt on Sat 13 Aug 2016, 6:18 pm

Offbreed wrote:Definitely a different feel to the place at Beachy Head this year, aircraft seem to be giving it a wide berth, or going past high, the BBMF was impressive, but that's about it for the day, I don't hold out much hope for a epic Sea Vixen flypast at Beachy, so it's fingers crossed for Sunday.


To be fair to the organizers it wasn't just the BBMF that was impressive - I did get some good shots of Seagulls ;)

But seriously, the Reds weren't too bad, though there was none of those close fly over the top maneuvers we had in previous years, but that change is a bit more understandable.
Last edited by Tbolt on Sat 13 Aug 2016, 6:31 pm, edited 2 times in total.
User avatar
Tbolt

Re: Eastbourne

Postby CameronSys on Sat 13 Aug 2016, 6:27 pm

Can't decide whether it's worth my while going up Beachy Head tomorrow, or going down to the beach now... People who were there this past couple of days, what would you suggest? Thanks
User avatar
CameronSys

Re: Eastbourne

Postby Flyforfun on Sat 13 Aug 2016, 6:51 pm

Beach
User avatar
Flyforfun

Re: Eastbourne

Postby Offbreed on Sat 13 Aug 2016, 6:55 pm

CameronSys wrote:Can't decide whether it's worth my while going up Beachy Head tomorrow, or going down to the beach now... People who were there this past couple of days, what would you suggest? Thanks

I would say the beach, as there are certain guarantees down there, the Typhoon display has looked good with plenty of vapour on the wings, Beachy has always been a bit hit and miss, but now more so, if you are attending over a couple of days it's worth a go.
User avatar
Offbreed

Re: Eastbourne

Postby lambo17841 on Sat 13 Aug 2016, 6:57 pm

Wish tower area for me ,gives a bit of height and away from the scrum on the beach area.

John in Seaford
lambo17841

Re: Eastbourne

Postby Tbolt on Sat 13 Aug 2016, 7:03 pm

Just to help you decide, this is three departure shots when the aircraft were at their close point to us. This is with 630mm equivalent focal length and obviously I've left them uncropped to give you an idea of the distance they were away.

Image

Image

Image
User avatar
Tbolt

Re: Eastbourne

Postby CameronSys on Sat 13 Aug 2016, 7:05 pm

Decision made then - thanks. Beach it is...!
User avatar
CameronSys

Re: Eastbourne

Postby Stagger2 on Sat 13 Aug 2016, 7:07 pm

Thanks for the specific reply Tbolt. I'm going to risk-it & go all-in at Beachy Head. There is nothing on the flying-list I haven't seen better elsewhere on many occasions, so, worth a punt for a 'unique' shot! :wink:
Stagger2

Re: Eastbourne

Postby MC hammer on Sat 13 Aug 2016, 7:09 pm

I was at Beachy Head on Friday. I did not go there with my normal anticipation, as I thought the line up was looking thin and tired. As has been mentioned, the BBMF came in that way and were close enough for a picture. There was one pass by a Red Arrows singleton about twenty minutes into their display which was close and low. Most of my shots from the day were of the three Squirrel helis that brought the Red Arrows pilots back to the arena after their display to meet the crowds.

Sure it was really disappointing, especially the Typhoon, coming in and exiting to the east, but last year apart, he has always done that, so it wasn't unexpected, and that made up my mind not to go today and tomorrow.

I'm not sure about pilots being told to give it a wide berth though, certainly not by ATC on the day, because not everything did. I think it's more a case of some pilots going high and/or wide around the headland, so that they get a better view of any potential conflicting traffic. That has often been the case in previous years, much to my frustration. It's been quite common for a display item to be too far out on the Friday, too high on the Saturday and just right on the Sunday. It's very random. If they are below and tight to the cliffs, they cannot see if anything is around the corner, so I think they do it for their own safety, rather than to avoid the crowds at Beachy Head. After all, where is the danger to the secondary crowd if you are flying below them and over the sea?

What did not help this year was the absence of some of the aircraft that have offered good passes in previous years. I would say these included the Chinook and King Air, both cancelled, the Tucano, Tutor, Hawk/Tornado role demos, Hunter, Vampires, Mig 15, Belgian F-16 and the complete lack of any helicopters, recent years having provided nice passes from The Black Cats, Navy Sea King, RAF Sea King, Army Lynx, Dutch AB-412. Oh, and the Vulcan of course.

So hopefully, it's just a case of yet another show lacking dynamics this year and having two thirds of the RAF display allocation pulled out. I'm not counting the Arrows and BBMF in that statistic, as their presence is almost a given.
MC hammer

Re: Eastbourne

Postby Tbolt on Sat 13 Aug 2016, 7:14 pm

A quick edit of that P-51 shot show it's not exactly sharp (click photo then click the + sign to view at full sharpness).

Image
User avatar
Tbolt

Re: Eastbourne

Postby Tbolt on Sat 13 Aug 2016, 7:20 pm

MC hammer wrote:I was at Beachy Head on Friday. I did not go there with my normal anticipation, as I thought the line up was looking thin and tired. As has been mentioned, the BBMF came in that way and were close enough for a picture. There was one pass by a Red Arrows singleton about twenty minutes into their display which was close and low. Most of my shots from the day were of the three Squirrel helis that brought the Red Arrows pilots back to the arena after their display to meet the crowds.

Sure it was really disappointing, especially the Typhoon, coming in and exiting to the east, but last year apart, he has always done that, so it wasn't unexpected, and that made up my mind not to go today and tomorrow.

I'm not sure about pilots being told to give it a wide berth though, certainly not by ATC on the day, because not everything did. I think it's more a case of some pilots going high and/or wide around the headland, so that they get a better view of any potential conflicting traffic. That has often been the case in previous years, much to my frustration. It's been quite common for a display item to be too far out on the Friday, too high on the Saturday and just right on the Sunday. It's very random. If they are below and tight to the cliffs, they cannot see if anything is around the corner, so I think they do it for their own safety, rather than to avoid the crowds at Beachy Head. After all, where is the danger to the secondary crowd if you are flying below them and over the sea?

What did not help this year was the absence of some of the aircraft that have offered good passes in previous years. I would say these included the Chinook and King Air, both cancelled, the Tucano, Tutor, Hawk/Tornado role demos, Hunter, Vampires, Mig 15, Belgian F-16 and the complete lack of any helicopters, recent years having provided nice passes from The Black Cats, Navy Sea King, RAF Sea King, Army Lynx, Dutch AB-412. Oh, and the Vulcan of course.

So hopefully, it's just a case of yet another show lacking dynamics this year and having two thirds of the RAF display allocation pulled out. I'm not counting the Arrows and BBMF in that statistic, as their presence is almost a given.



Yet today some aircraft entered so high (quite a bit higher than the top of Beachy Head) they were in cloud, had they been a sensible height they would have had good visibility! But I hope it's better tomorrow for you guys that are going.
User avatar
Tbolt

Re: Eastbourne

Postby paullangford on Sat 13 Aug 2016, 7:36 pm

Just came back from Beachy Head.............won't be going tomorrow.
From a photography point of view.............It wasn't happening
The ONLY highlight was the BBMF and seeing the Lanc back in the air and over water.
I've no idea why the aircraft were so far away or so high.
Ah well................ :cuppa:
User avatar
paullangford

Re: Eastbourne

Postby timuss on Sat 13 Aug 2016, 7:41 pm

Yeah a real shame that a real highlight of Eastbourne has been effectivley neutered by the CAA a complete change from 12 months ago. I was going to go back tomorrow to chance seeing the Sea Vixen making an epic pass, but i don't think i will now and maybe go to Shoreham for the afternoon.
Canon 7Dmk2
Canon 7D
Sigma 18-200
Sigma 10-20
Canon 100-400 L IS II
Icom ICR-2 Scanner
PSN: timuss
timuss

Re: Eastbourne

Postby Offbreed on Sat 13 Aug 2016, 8:00 pm

The photographers that travel from abroad to shoot at Beachy were certainly bemused by the new routine, they expected changes after Shoreham, but thought the close flypasts would continue.
User avatar
Offbreed

Re: Eastbourne

Postby SEMAE on Sat 13 Aug 2016, 8:08 pm

People viewing from Beachy Head is now being treated as a secondary crowd so the pilots have been told to stay well clear of it either above it or beside it.

This year, I have been going to Beachy Head since Thursday and the BBMF came close to every day. I have been doing Beachy Head for several years so perhaps today was my last time.

I got very few half decent shots of other aircraft so I am rather disappointed.

For the first time I will be giving the air show a complete miss this Sunday and maybe a complete miss on going to the show at all in future.

Most inland shows usually offers some amount of uniqueness, either backgrounds on landings and take offs or at some smaller airfields you can walk about and get aircraft at different angles on different days, do taxi shots and the like.

Seaside air shows are usually packed out with people and with any uniqueness in the Eastbourne air show now stamped out by the CAA, you will no longer get any pictures that are any different from any inland show.

The logic of Beachy Head being vowed as a secondary crowd line lacks any logic.

From what I could see, though most aircraft were flying a little further away from the crowd line, as the boats were also pushed out further, the a result is that plenty of the displays were still flying over or close to the boats , much closer than any flew toward Beachy Head. Yet the chance of any aircraft hitting people on Beachy Head on entry an exit of the show is virtually zero

However, It looked like the Norwegian Vampires were displaying to Dieppe rather than Eastbourne anyway and the Spitfire was way out today and maybe couple of others so perhaps not even he beach itself would have been worth it.

Back to Beachy Head, perhaps a solution could be to treat Beachy Head as an 'authorised' secondary crowd line for flybys only so that aircraft can fly in and out the that way at the 230 metre line or 150 meter line depending on the pilots authoriation.

I cannot see any inland shows having an 'authorised' secondary crowd line.

I will go to another show tomorrow. For thoes going to Beachy Head tomorrow, Sunday is usually the best day, so I wish you luck.

I am glad that that the Shuttlewoth collection have got their exemption back on lateral separation . This was most noticeable at their last show but as an afterthought, I would not give the CAA any credit for rectifying their own knee jerk reactions as most of the issues that have arisen as a result are reasonably foreseeable.

Martin Eames
Last edited by SEMAE on Sat 13 Aug 2016, 8:16 pm, edited 6 times in total.
SEMAE

Re: Eastbourne

Postby Tbolt on Sat 13 Aug 2016, 8:11 pm

Offbreed wrote:The photographers that travel from abroad to shoot at Beachy were certainly bemused by the new routine, they expected changes after Shoreham, but thought the close flypasts would continue.


As did I expect them to continue because they were not really that close before, nothing different from a normal airshow, it was about get a different angle on the aircraft. The only thing I thought might change would be the restriction of some aircraft over flying the land into their display, yet quiet a few aircraft still must have over flew spectators north of Beachy Head to enter their display.

If this is a CAA restriction then I think the show organizers need to do something about, after all the restrictions at Old Warden got changed after the silly limits came in.
Last edited by Tbolt on Sat 13 Aug 2016, 8:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Tbolt

Re: Eastbourne

Postby slsmotors on Sat 13 Aug 2016, 8:13 pm

With lots of EB visitors at Shoreham today I expected the usual parking spaces to be full as in previous years, but I was mistaken. Very few people there compared to my expectations. Breezy too, virtually down runway 25 but most traffic used 20.
slsmotors

Re: Eastbourne

Postby Tbolt on Sat 13 Aug 2016, 8:17 pm

slsmotors wrote:With lots of EB visitors at Shoreham today I expected the usual parking spaces to be full as in previous years, but I was mistaken. Very few people there compared to my expectations. Breezy too, virtually down runway 25 but most traffic used 20.


It was quieter than I expected at Beachy Head as well, with some poeple seeming to leave early when they realized they were not going to see much.
User avatar
Tbolt

Re: Eastbourne

Postby paullangford on Sat 13 Aug 2016, 8:47 pm

SEMAE wrote:People viewing from Beachy Head is now being treated as a secondary crowd so the pilots have been told to stay well clear of it either above it or beside it.


I just found the whole situation a bit strange today.
The new restrictions in place are for height/ distance and manouvering from the crowd over land I believe.
These aircraft are just transiting past Beachy Head and not displaying AND they're over the sea.
The aircraft today were ALOT further and higher than for any year I've been to Beachy Head......except the BBMF.
At Weston Super Mare this year there certainly wasn't any of these restrictions over Brean Down.

strange..............thanks CAA for spending time on a problem that didn't exist

still..............at least it was sunny :cuppa:
User avatar
paullangford

Re: Eastbourne

Postby MC hammer on Sat 13 Aug 2016, 9:28 pm

Tbolt wrote:
Offbreed wrote:The photographers that travel from abroad to shoot at Beachy were certainly bemused by the new routine, they expected changes after Shoreham, but thought the close flypasts would continue.


As did I expect them to continue because they were not really that close before, nothing different from a normal airshow, it was about get a different angle on the aircraft. The only thing I thought might change would be the restriction of some aircraft over flying the land into their display, yet quiet a few aircraft still must have over flew spectators north of Beachy Head to enter their display.

If this is a CAA restriction then I think the show organizers need to do something about, after all the restrictions at Old Warden got changed after the silly limits came in.


With my optimistic hat on before the show, I thought they might make aircraft fly around, rather than over Beachy Head, which would have been better for us and of course safer for everyone up there.
With the odd exception, you are absolute right that most aircraft that provided a good photo opportunity in the past were no closer than at a land show anyway and being lower than the public, posed no danger.
My fear is that someone, CAA or otherwise, has highlighted Beachy Head as a secondary crowd, which is true, but a general keep away attitude has prevailed, rather than the simple ban on over flights which would have sufficed. Another classic case of wanting to be seen to be doing something, even if it's achieving absolutely nothing?
Hope we get proved wrong next year.
MC hammer

Re: Eastbourne

Postby SEMAE on Sat 13 Aug 2016, 9:57 pm

I have decided to give Beachy Head one last go for Sunday in the hope that as the Sea Vixen is coming from the west, it might just fly past Beachy Head but I will probably be disappointed again.

Martin
SEMAE

Re: Eastbourne

Postby King Cobra on Sat 13 Aug 2016, 10:52 pm

SEMAE wrote:I have decided to give Beachy Head one last go for Sunday in the hope that as the Sea Vixen is coming from the west, it might just fly past Beachy Head but I will probably be disappointed again.

Martin


You won't be alone. Three of us are coming down in hope more than anticipation. I'll settle for a good shot of the Lanc and the Sea Vixen but not holding my breath.
King Cobra

PreviousNext

Return to Seaside Shows

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests