Bournemouth Air Festival 2017

News on all the seaside airshows up and down the country in one forum
Finningley Boy
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Re: Bournemouth Air Festival 2017

Post by Finningley Boy »

Exactly Jakub,

another thing, I've read in the RAF news today that five training types are to be replaced over the next two years or so. Babcock and Lockheed Martin are mentioned, I can't quite recall the actual wording, but there was an attempt to avoid plain speaking that the dreaded PFI is across the board here. So in future the RAF will be under scrutiny from civilian commerce to watch and see, certainly, that no Tankers, Transports or Trainers of any shape or form make their way aloft before a crowd of spectators anywhere. Unless of course its something like the airbus folk tossing the A400M around at Fairford/Farnborough and all. :sick:


Meanwhile, in the RAF's centenary year, unless the air staff take leaf out of the book of past air staffs and give permission for the Tornado to fly a round of swansong displays next year, and who knows, perhaps a performance handling display at select events by the F-35B which should be safely ensconced at Marham by May next year, then....its going to be the same scarce menu. :tumbleweed:

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GazBOH
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Re: Bournemouth Air Festival 2017

Post by GazBOH »

It's appears that display organisers pick their dates without regard (or is it arrogance) to what others are planning. Why, in such tough times aren't they working together to ensure that shows don't over lap.

With Bournemouth already announcing next year and I'm sure SIA soon to follow, there's a high probability the shows will overlap again next year, causing another fight for display assets. It's a ridiculous situation.

sikejsudjek
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Re: Bournemouth Air Festival 2017

Post by sikejsudjek »

Looks like we're not alone judging from the comments in the local paper. Lots of moans about the lack of 'noisy jets' !
http://www.bournemouthecho.co.uk/news/1 ... ef=mr&lp=1

Despite the up beat headline - obvious from the comments that the locals weren't impressed with the line up - or the lack of stalls and bands. In fact the entire festival was a shadow of last years from every perspective. One of the comments suggested the council didn't have a major sponsor and were charging too much for the stalls? I have no idea if that's true, but if so it might explain some of the problems.

I enjoyed the night air, fireworks and the excellent Stevie Wonder tribute band - but the airshow element was badly let down by the lack of armed forces participation. Otto the helicopter remains the highlight for me - they could spook North Korea with that thing ! :lol:

Finningley Boy
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Re: Bournemouth Air Festival 2017

Post by Finningley Boy »

Tilney.G wrote:Blimey, what a bunch of moaning, grumpy people :hide:

It's been a really enjoyable 3 days. There was certainly no big gaps in the flying yesterday and although it was maybe a slightly weaker line up there were plenty on the cliffs enjoying it.
The GWDT looked super over the bay and it was nice to see the B17/Blenheim formation.

Shame about the weather today but I think Bournemouth put on another good show.


Oh but there were enormous gaps, some real pregnant pauses and it finished mid-afternoon. This was not a big airshow, seaside or not. And as always over the sea now most of the flying was overly distant, like watching from the other end of the town. But again, the noisy hyped up embarrassing commentary more than made up for it. Again, and I know he's something of a folk hero among some ukarians, but Sqn Ldr Mike Ling's cringing commentary out cringed George Bacon's, and that as they say, is really saying something.

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Finningley Boy
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Re: Bournemouth Air Festival 2017

Post by Finningley Boy »

Tilney.G wrote:
Finningley Boy wrote:
Tilney.G wrote:Blimey, what a bunch of moaning, grumpy people :hide:

It's been a really enjoyable 3 days. There was certainly no big gaps in the flying yesterday and although it was maybe a slightly weaker line up there were plenty on the cliffs enjoying it.
The GWDT looked super over the bay and it was nice to see the B17/Blenheim formation.

Shame about the weather today but I think Bournemouth put on another good show.


Oh but there were enormous gaps, some real pregnant pauses and it finished mid-afternoon. This was not a big airshow, seaside or not. And as always over the sea now most of the flying was overly distant, like watching from the other end of the town. But again, the noisy hyped up embarrassing commentary more than made up for it. Again, and I know he's something of a folk hero among some ukarians, but Sqn Ldr Mike Ling's cringing commentary out cringed George Bacon's, and that as they say, is really saying something.

FB


Tilney,


The only 'enormous' gap was between the beach assault and GWDT, which was scheduled! All the others except the parachutistists which always take a long time were 5 maybe 10 mins which I wouldn't call enormous!
And what do you expect the commentators to do. Have no enthusiasm, say the line up is awful and recommend people to go home? For those who actually enjoyed it (Not many on here) the commentary was fine, especially Mike's as it was his last one at BMouth! Nothing cringe about that!


It really depends on what you've become used to, at one time air shows operated a gap of no more than about two minutes between the finish of one and the run in of the next item. I can recall seeing one aircraft climb out one way while the next is running in. You get to see this kind of continuity and coordination now, from time to time. But ordinarily, about five minutes yes typically, is the current gap. But anymore is a pregnant gap, more than ten minutes and you can forget you're at an air show at all. Especially along a sea front. Further, the display this year finished awful early, regardless of the evening festivities. All in all, the content of too many such events is very lack lustre now. Read the link on the earlier thread. As I've kept on banging the drum, we are in an drought all round regarding UK air shows in particular. Our authorities have become positively unsupportive, they refuse to accept responsibility for aircraft which appear regularly at air shows and which have an unblemished record. Principally the SWAFHF. Largely because they operate the kind of sophisticated high performance aircraft which to be frank everyone really wants to see, flying! Being put through their paces as the operators intend. Not parked up or conducting a sedate flyby. And another point I'll make yet again, the clearest indication of how twee its all suddenly become is symptomized by the mawkish, patronising, overstated commentary of some of the new line up. I don't think I've heard a single one demonstrate the dry caustic wit of the old School which started to appear in the '70s and '80s such as Sean Maffett, Mike Whitehouse, Roger Hoefling, Pete MacNamara and the great late John Blake. All of whom were supremely informative without being conceited either. :cuppa:

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Zoom
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Re: Bournemouth Air Festival 2017

Post by Zoom »

I thought it was an excellent display, a bit light (compared to 2 years ago when we had the Vulcan Sea Vixen and Typhoon) but some new things I'd not seen before like the Hawk pair (were they RAF or RN?) and the two Strikemasters. At the end of the day it's an event intended for the general public not plane enthusiasts (with lots of extra wallet lightening potential)

I found a cheap pair of 8 x 40 binoculars perfect to overcome the distance, it did seem that the planes were often even further out than Argus and the flotilla of boats

It was a shame there was no Planes TV stall that I could see.

Finningley Boy
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Re: Bournemouth Air Festival 2017

Post by Finningley Boy »

Zoom wrote:I thought it was an excellent display, a bit light (compared to 2 years ago when we had the Vulcan Sea Vixen and Typhoon) but some new things I'd not seen before like the Hawk pair (were they RAF or RN?) and the two Strikemasters. At the end of the day it's an event intended for the general public not plane enthusiasts (with lots of extra wallet lightening potential)

It was a shame there was no Planes TV stall that I could see.


The two Hawks were from the Royal Navy as stated on the Flightline website (I didn't buy an expensive programme this year so I don't know what was said in there), they were on last year as well, the year before we had a role demo by two Hawk T2s from the RAF which was far more punchy culminating in high energy climbs. The RN Hawks from Culdrose just sedately flew around, didn't they? :dizzy:

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Zoom
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Re: Bournemouth Air Festival 2017

Post by Zoom »

Finningley Boy wrote:
Zoom wrote:I thought it was an excellent display, a bit light (compared to 2 years ago when we had the Vulcan Sea Vixen and Typhoon) but some new things I'd not seen before like the Hawk pair (were they RAF or RN?)

The two Hawks were from the Royal Navy as stated on the Flightline website (I didn't buy an expensive programme this year so I don't know what was said in there), they were on last year as well, the year before we had a role demo by two Hawk T2s from the RAF which was far more punchy culminating in high energy climbs. The RN Hawks from Culdrose just sedately flew around, didn't they? :dizzy:

FB :biggrin:


yes sort of, not a great amount of interaction with the ground display. I wasn't sure as I'd seen photos of the RN Hawks with a special tail fin. I didn't shell out £8 for the programme either; I had the timetable on my phone thanks to this thread :smile:

an extra bonus was the Royal Marines band doing a performance for the Rear Admiral on the hotel lawn just before the Fireflies

mrshu
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Re: Bournemouth Air Festival 2017

Post by mrshu »

The Royal Marines Band might have been excellent but could they explain why their mates at The Hamworthy Boat Sqn base didn't bother turning up to deal with the pirates who came without their pirate ship this year? If it wasn't for the army there wouldn't have been an event this year! So much for the very, well very hyped up Amphibious Beach Assault which simply didn't happen this year despite "thousands" crowding around the main beach arena. You can't do it without any boats can you??? Unless it's Bournemouth! Even if it's free, if they can't even deliver what is advertised then I'd call that a let down, free or not? Whatever happened to the "Dunkirk" spirit!? They could have commandeered a couple of Sunseekers which would have been a great advert for such a prestigious local boat builder!!!
Last edited by mrshu on Mon 04 Sep 2017, 9:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Chopper81
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Re: Bournemouth Air Festival 2017

Post by Chopper81 »

Tilney.G wrote:
Zoom wrote:At the end of the day it's an event intended for the general public not plane enthusiasts


Exactly! Go to RIAT if you want to see fast jets all day long! I'm sure if you ask most of the general public they'd say it was a good day as the comments on Facebook suggest. And I'd say there were certainly some things there for the plane enthusiasts too!


Touch of selective reading maybe? And that's for both sides :tumbleweed:

Finningley Boy
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Re: Bournemouth Air Festival 2017

Post by Finningley Boy »

Mr Tilney,

are you one of the punters that follows 'Crispy' Bacon's dictats to wave yer hats, coats, ice creams whatever you have to hand the pilots can see you etc? :lol:

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Reds Rolling
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Re: Bournemouth Air Festival 2017

Post by Reds Rolling »

I think the show's lineup in general was poor this year, which is why I didn't attend, but then what shows don't have bad years?

One thing I've seen that did look good was the evening flying display, where if you're lucky enough to get a good sunset, then the light is fantastic.

Perhaps the organisers should look at making the Thurs and Friday shows more evening orientated and do away with the afternoon flying altogether on those days?

Also, getting some foreign air arm fast jet on board early doors would be a bonus, especially if they lose out on the RAF assets again next year. :smile:

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The Baron
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Re: Bournemouth Air Festival 2017

Post by The Baron »

For a seaside show, particularly of Bournemouth's scale just getting a decent, varied line up would have been a bonus. There is still much to choose from without making it almost identical to Torbay, Southport or Scampton.
There should be no need for international support (regardless of how welcome it would be) with a potential line up that could be achieved with UK assets.
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Jakub.Zurek
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Re: Bournemouth Air Festival 2017

Post by Jakub.Zurek »

The Baron wrote:For a seaside show, particularly of Bournemouth's scale just getting a decent, varied line up would have been a bonus. There is still much to choose from without making it almost identical to Torbay, Southport or Scampton.


I have to disagree because I genuinely think there is not too many aircraft to choose from for air displays nowadays. I'd love to think what others believe is available for airshows this year.

There is reduced RAF participation at airshows and many clearly missed the Typhoon this year.
In terms of classic jets it is a very sad state of affairs as we only have the Norwegian Airforce Historic Flight, and the Strikemaster and JP displaying, which again Bournemouth had this year.
Warbirds perhaps are thriving with so many new restorations and Bournemouth had a lot this year with Sally B, Blenheim, Spitfire, Hurricane, Mustang and Buchon.

Perhaps the issue is that TSA Consulting organises a lot of shows, therefore they build relationships with the aircraft operators and some of their shows end up a bit same-y?

StevieS
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Re: Bournemouth Air Festival 2017

Post by StevieS »

So given that the organiser has no control over the allocation of military display assets to the event and can only invite them, and any foreign military displays to participate, what else could/should they have done to enhance their line-up? There has also been much debate on date clashes! Bournemouth has always been either the weekend before or the weekend after the August Bank Holiday. Eastbourne moved back a week this year onto what would probably have been Bournemouth's chosen weekend so Bournemouth had to move to the weekend after the BH, thereby causing the clash with Ayr and Portrush. Bournemouth has successfully been that weekend several times in the past 10 years, but before Ayr started. Bournemouth has also happily shared dates and assets in the past with Shoreham, Rhyl and Dawlish, but that was a lot easier as they were a lot closer. Apparently it seems that Ayr and Portrush could not/would not move to deconflict from Bournemouth, particularly with Scampton now entering the mix! So not sure what the long-term solution might be!

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Re: Bournemouth Air Festival 2017

Post by Aviation94 »

Reds Rolling wrote:
Perhaps the organisers should look at making the Thurs and Friday shows more evening orientated and do away with the afternoon flying altogether on those days?


I think this is a very good idea. :clap: Very sanicole-esk. Perhaps this would overcome the issue with the gaps in the weekends flying too by "reserving" some of the acts for the weekend.

This is the first year I didn't go due to nothing wetting my appetite. The only thing I might have gone down for was the Blenheim & Sally B formation. Apart from that nothing special.

Looking back at the first few air festivals they were great with lots of different bits flying (I vaguely remember a DC6 at the first one?!). I know times have changed and recent events including things along the coast haven't helped but for an "anniversary show" and the biggest and best one ever (as was advertised) this was poor.
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mrshu
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Re: Bournemouth Air Festival 2017

Post by mrshu »

Great to hear so many views on this years Air Festival. In the ten years that the show has been running it's a fact that air shows have been under pressure like never before In fact several are no more as a direct result. Post Shoreham for a start, as well as far fewer assets available from the military. What is very clear this year is that the Royal Navy pulled out at the last minute letting the organisers down massively. Nothing could be done to replace the normally excellent beach assault! It's going to be a battle in future to bring the Typhoon display team if other shows are competing for them on the same day. Bournemouth "has to have" some impressive fast jets even if it's only the Typhoon. From the beach, most folk were simply going about their normal business with several of the displays this year, a bit like having music playing in the background! The GWDT are superb at small venues and Old Sarum particularly stands out where you get close to these amazing aircraft on the ground and see them close up at a venue with a very short display line, but they were just dots in the background for many on the beaches. Bearing in mind that the display line is now further away post Shoreham. The wing walkers used to come with four stearman aircraft a decade ago but this year just one. It didn't work in the same way. We can't get away from the fact that the Vulcan, Sea Vixen, Hunter and Canberra are gone and cannot be replaced, but it definitely needs a boost and more luck with the BBMF, Typhoon and Royal Navy for next year. Serious food for thought by the organisers who now have to bring the event back to its best again. Regardless of what the local papers / commentators/ pundits have been saying by telling us all how good it was this year, deep down they all know like "most" of us that improvements are needed! There isn't a simple answer, times have changed therefore it'll be very hard to get it back to its best.

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Re: Bournemouth Air Festival 2017

Post by StevieS »

They had obviously been allocated the BBMF for all 4 days, but were thwarted by the grounding. I believe they also had the Sea Vixen booked for 3 days and the Swordfish for all 4 days, again, thwarted by the situation with Navy Wings. The Wingwalkers, with their sponsorship and directives from Breitling seem to spend more of their time in mainland Europe now than at UK shows, unless you are fortunate to not clash with a Breitling event in Europe or they can provide a solo with one of their part-time crews.

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Jakub.Zurek
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Re: Bournemouth Air Festival 2017

Post by Jakub.Zurek »

StevieS wrote:The Wingwalkers, with their sponsorship and directives from Breitling seem to spend more of their time in mainland Europe now than at UK shows, unless you are fortunate to not clash with a Breitling event in Europe or they can provide a solo with one of their part-time crews.


There was meant to be two wingwalkers, but one of them was on holiday for a hen party - info from TSA Consulting facebook page.
So again nothing Bournemouth could have done.

sikejsudjek
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Re: Bournemouth Air Festival 2017

Post by sikejsudjek »

How many months (or years!) will it be before an F35 starts being displayed at airshows ? I was surprised there wasn't one at Fairford this year.

Finningley Boy
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Re: Bournemouth Air Festival 2017

Post by Finningley Boy »

sikejsudjek wrote:How many months (or years!) will it be before an F35 starts being displayed at airshows ? I was surprised there wasn't one at Fairford this year.


I should imagine next year? Reasons, its the RAF centenary year and the aircraft should be operating from Marham. I wouldn't expect anything other than a performance handling display just as with the Typhoon in 2004, and at only a small list of venues, i.e; Fairford, Yeovilton, Cosford etc. However, given the current climate regarding UK military efforts for airshows, I wouldn't hold my breath! Likely various reasons may be found to stay out of sight or static only, oh yes we're just to busy training up the first squadron etc. You know, the kind of thing which never stood in the way in a different era. :cuppa:

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Reds Rolling
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Re: Bournemouth Air Festival 2017

Post by Reds Rolling »

StevieS wrote:They had obviously been allocated the BBMF for all 4 days, but were thwarted by the grounding.

IIRC the Lancaster was only going to fly at B/mth on the Thurs and Fri before departing to Scotland anyway.

If the Ayr show is on next year, then I expect the same problems with RAF assets as this year.

StevieS
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Re: Bournemouth Air Festival 2017

Post by StevieS »

Reds Rolling wrote:
StevieS wrote:They had obviously been allocated the BBMF for all 4 days, but were thwarted by the grounding.

IIRC the Lancaster was only going to fly at B/mth on the Thurs and Fri before departing to Scotland anyway.

If the Ayr show is on next year, then I expect the same problems with RAF assets as this year.


They had Lanc/Hurri/Spit allocated for Thursday and Friday and then Dak/Hurri/Spit for the weekend. With the Lanc and all Merlin-engined fighters grounded and the Dak unserviceable again, they lost out on everything from the BBMF.

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