London Riots

[vandal]

Second, I was listening to Radio 1 earlier and one, what I can only describe as a hooliganistic, chavvy yob from Manchester was saying that he, quote...

"Don't care if my parents find out about the stuff I nicked, they can't ground me, I'm too old. Might get a little shouting at but they won't do anything! I love doing it, it's fun and I get free stuff!"

Thing is though, it's not free stuff. Okay, he's not paid for it, but indirectly he will (and so will the rest of the UK) when insurance premiums suddenly rocket.

[PhilW]

Thing is though, it's not free stuff. Okay, he's not paid for it, but indirectly he will (and so will the rest of the UK) when insurance premiums suddenly rocket.

I doubt if he pays anything like insurance!

[vandal]

Thing is though, it's not free stuff. Okay, he's not paid for it, but indirectly he will (and so will the rest of the UK) when insurance premiums suddenly rocket.

I doubt if he pays anything like insurance!

I do too, but it's more a figure of speech type thing. Used insurance as an example, but somewhere down the line, it's going to cost us. Could be a hike in premiums, or a tax increase to put more police on the streets / council tax to pay for the clean up etc so ultimately, the stuff isn't free.

[pbeardmore]

The really big issue is that these young thugs are the fathers of the next generation. Pretty obvious what kind of fathers they are going to make. If we want to turn this situation around, we need to find a solution that offers a genuine chance to these thugs kids, even before they are born. Other than castration or taking their kids away before they have a chance of having a negative influence on their kids, I cant see any policies that will have a big enough impact to help the next generation. If anything, things will get worse.

[PhilW]

I'd like to see a statue of Thatcher placed amongst the preserved remains of the Tottenham Carpet shop as a reminder to future governments that their actions impact not just the current generation, but all that follow. It was the one chance to stop the rot before it got beyond salvaging. They chose not to.

[Spiny Norman]

The really big issue is that these young thugs are the fathers of the next generation. Pretty obvious what kind of fathers they are going to make. If we want to turn this situation around, we need to find a solution that offers a genuine chance to these thugs kids, even before they are born. Other than castration or taking their kids away before they have a chance of having a negative influence on their kids, I cant see any policies that will have a big enough impact to help the next generation. If anything, things will get worse.

Full employment would solve a ton of the social issues. Full employment that pays decent wages. Now who's going to bring back that chant?

[DanO1978]

I'd like to see a statue of Thatcher placed amongst the preserved remains of the Tottenham Carpet shop as a reminder to future governments that their actions impact not just the current generation, but all that follow. It was the one chance to stop the rot before it got beyond salvaging. They chose not to.

Show me one Labour politician fit to lick Thatcher's boots.

[pbeardmore]

The UK will never see full employment, nice idea but not financially viable.

Plus, in order to get there, society has to produce a population that is 100% employable and that has failed. I am convinced that many of these guys are simply not employable. Holding down any sort of job requires a minimal level of self respect and reliabilty and there is little evidence of this. Some of the suspects charged today do have jobs (classroom assistant for example) and he clearly is not worthy of having that job (would you want him in your son or daughter's classroom?) so ironically, I want him sacked which will see another criminal claiming benefits.

[Dorset64]

There is a saying. "People who make things dont break things".

[Abingdonman]

I believe that even in the best years 50s/60s,with the population millions less,unemployment was around 300,000.
If only in the near future we could hear David Cameron say those words that Harold Macmillan once said " We,ve never had it so good!"...but Harold had it easy!...we definitely had a golden era late 50s into at least the late 60s,what with the restructuring of the bomb damaged cities and the new towns creating a building boom,the car factories (with the new mini!) flourished,hire purchase restrictions were lifted,it really was a time you could move about jobwise.....
But alas,David or any future British prime minister will never be able to say those word's again.....so much has changed in every which way,but warnings were given over the years,much of which fell to so many deaf ears.....I fear for the future to be honest,but not for me...at least I can say I had a taste of the good years!

[TYPHOON3]

The trouble is that these people think why work for a minimum wage when they can get more in benefits than working for a living.It's also easier to steal and loot which is what they are doing than earn and then pay for it.Of course it remains to be seen if they will get away with it.These people with hoodies and scarves covering their faces seem to think they will anyway.These people are seeing and thinking I'll have some of that watching others on the news doing it.I also think that the time has come to say to workers from overseas that there isn't enough work for British people let alone overseas workers so send them back home until things improve anyway.The trouble is overseas workers will work for the minimum wage or lower whereas the above mentioned will not.

[DanH]

All this trouble can be traced back to the perpetrators misguided take on rights, respect and responsibilities. For some reason, they believe that they have the right to behave however they want, that they do not need to have any respect for authority, and that they need not take responsibility for their own actions.

I, along with my brother and sister, was brought up with an understanding of these things by my parents and close family from a very early age. It has always been my understanding that one of the most important duties that comes with being a parent is to do this.

The questions that need to be asked are why have these people not been brought up to have these values, and what can be done to ensure that future generations do not end up the same way.

[agdickie]

Seems the rioting has hit Edinburgh...

[MartinNeedham]

I'd like to see a statue of Thatcher placed amongst the preserved remains of the Tottenham Carpet shop as a reminder to future governments that their actions impact not just the current generation, but all that follow. It was the one chance to stop the rot before it got beyond salvaging. They chose not to.

Show me one Labour politician fit to lick Thatcher's boots.

Only if you show me a Conservative MP fit to do the same.

[PhilW]

I'd like to see a statue of Thatcher placed amongst the preserved remains of the Tottenham Carpet shop as a reminder to future governments that their actions impact not just the current generation, but all that follow. It was the one chance to stop the rot before it got beyond salvaging. They chose not to.

Show me one Labour politician fit to lick Thatcher's boots.

What's that got to do with it? The UK is now blighted with this totally avoidable and completely predictable cancer initiated by the lack of a plan as to what to do with the extra millions of previously gainfully employed, upstanding people that fell foul of the spending policies which - much like now - caused more pain than their net return.

Her purse should have been prised open to make amends. Funding to allow further education to be affordable to those she'd priced beyond its reach, retraining programs to fill the voids which are still unfilled (skilled trades, high level engineering - the former void since taken advantage of by immigrant workers) and to stop housing being used as a commodity. By the selling off of council housing and not building affordable homes they made it impossible for people to move around to where employment might be available.

This first generation of what became these cesspits still held a strong work ethic and would have grasped what was available, they still knew how to bring up their kids correctly, still respected each other and their neighbourhoods. Then was the time for the government to act to save this slide into the mire. They didn’t, so now the proverbial is hitting the fan and will continue to do so.

[stratocaster]

The really big issue is that these young thugs are the fathers of the next generation. Pretty obvious what kind of fathers they are going to make. If we want to turn this situation around, we need to find a solution that offers a genuine chance to these thugs kids, even before they are born. Other than castration or taking their kids away before they have a chance of having a negative influence on their kids, I cant see any policies that will have a big enough impact to help the next generation. If anything, things will get worse.

Then have the sods sterilised,,problem solved!

[vandal]

Some of the suspects charged today do have jobs (classroom assistant for example) and he clearly is not worthy of having that job (would you want him in your son or daughter's classroom?)

Anyone who works anywhere near children now has to undergo an Enhanced Disclosure / Criminal Check. Courts have been open through the night and they've been handing sentances down there and then. The two I heard about got 10 weeks and 16 weeks.

[Abingdonman]

[quote="agdickie"]Seems the rioting has hit Edinburgh...




I can hear the judge now....."You may have to free a murderer to make room......but give this man 10yrs !!"

[vandal]

On Sky News just now that the Police are out 'knocking' on doors, armed with search warrants.

[Spiny Norman]

Labour politicians better than Thatchers?

Here's one: Clement Attlee - in the post-war years, following a six year war that had almost broken Britain. He set up the NHS! Can you imagine someone having the temerity and skill to do that. Nowadays we close things down...

What's Thatcher's legacy - she made millions unemployed, sold off the family silver. And as if that wasn't bad enough - she was replaced by John "Edwina don't tell the missus - Major. Who ran *from* the circus to do accountancy. lol.

Many people are trying to rewrite history by falsely claming Reagan won the cold war, let's not do it by making Maggie Thatcher some sort of political titan. She was lucky, (north sea oil revenues funding her benefits bill) and wrong.

[silver fox]

I'd like to see a statue of Thatcher placed amongst the preserved remains of the Tottenham Carpet shop as a reminder to future governments that their actions impact not just the current generation, but all that follow. It was the one chance to stop the rot before it got beyond salvaging. They chose not to.

Show me one Labour politician fit to lick Thatcher's boots.

After the witch Thatcher I thought we had seen the worst of the Tories, the present gang look like proving me wrong.

Cameron does not know which way is up and Osbourne makes Gordon Brown look like a financial genius.

[stuart n]

What's Thatcher's legacy - she made millions unemployed, sold off the family silver.

And Brown made milllions unemployed and sold the family gold which then went onto soar in value

The riots have nothing to do with government cuts. They're caused by politicians of ALL parties pussy footing around deep routed problems in society through fears of being dubbed racist. This has been going on for years.
It's the coming together of the communities to show their disgust at the riots that is putting an end to this as much as extra police on the streets. The politicians now need to sit down with the communities and work out what happens next. Recalling parliment to stand shouting across the desptach boxes solves nothing.

[pbeardmore]

This is a long term (roughly 60 year) social trend and is beyond party politics. Dreadful debate on Newsnight last night with each side trying to blame the other. No one party within a fixed term is going to come anywhere near a solution. Best brains in the Country and beyond our borders have to pull together from all sides but politicians are already so keen on scoring political points and defending their own jobs (May has been dreadful IMHO) that they cant see the bigger picture.

New Zealand (Wanaka or Blenheim) looks to be the future I feel , anyone else want to leave the sinking HMS Great Britain?

[PhilW]

And Brown made milllions unemployed.....

Nothing like the numbers of previous down-turns Stu, nor accompanied by the downward shift in life-style which planted the seeds of doom [/dramatic effect off!]

[Tomahawk]

And Brown made milllions unemployed.....

Nothing like the numbers of previous down-turns Stu, nor accompanied by the downward shift in life-style which planted the seeds of doom [/dramatic effect off!]

I've heard some ridiculous arguments on this subject but to go back nearly thirty years and pin it on one government and one set of policies is utterly laughable. Alright, so you didn't like Thatcher, so did a lot of people but to say that's all there is to it. Have you been waiting thirty years and ignoring everything before or after just so you can share your 'theory'? How about unelected trade unions trying to run the country and the 'winter of discontent', abuse of government power leading to illegal wars, failing to control the banks etc. etc. etc.

Its not that simple.