London Riots

[DerekF]

So you have changed your mind then.

[DanO1978]

So you have changed your mind then.

No Derek. The gangs wanted to rob whatever they could - that got them on the streets last night. There was no political agenda behind that. Years of leftist softly-softly government meant that they don't fear the police, or our legal system.

[Wes_Howes]

Just to lighten the mood a little

Keith Lemon has been spotted on CCTV at the London riots, reportedly smashing back doors in.

[DerekF]

Dan, you're contradicting yourself with every post. It is precisely because they are able to loot with apparent impunity that they are out on the streets.

Interesting that the right-wing press are having a go at left-wing politicians for attempting to make political capital from this. And bizarrely you're doing the reverse, trying to place the blame on a government that left office 16 months ago.

[DeanW]

Anyone else in central London? It's all a little bit scary here, the ground floor of our building's been evactuated and there are rumours of Oxford St and Soho being blocked off by police.

[DanO1978]

You're contradicting yourself with every post. It is precisely because they are able to loot with apparent impunity that they are out on the streets.

Interesting that the right-wing press are having a go at left-wing politicians for attempting to make political capital from this. And bizarrely you're doing the reverse, trying to place the blame on a government that left office 16 months ago.

Did you HEAR Ken Livingstone last night? Within 30 seconds of starting spouting we'd had the full set - Thatcher, 1980s, cuts, bankers, Cameron....

[DerekF]

And he is as correct as you are......

Did you hear the Tories edit Diane Abbot's quote to miss out the part where she said "As was the case 26 years ago, nothing excuses violence." just to make her look bad.?

And therein lies a large part of the problem right there.

[tache3]

but soft lefty pandering over the previous 13 years will have created the conditions where feral kids no longer fear punishment.

Whereas cutting funding for the police service is being tough on crime is it?

[DanO1978]

but soft lefty pandering over the previous 13 years will have created the conditions where feral kids no longer fear punishment.

Whereas cutting funding for the police service is being tough on crime is it?

No. Cameron should make cuts elsewhere, namely addressing the enormous waste on benefits, funding people who have no intention of contributing to society - the feckless and the feral, not to mention the malingerers.

[DerekF]

Deprived areas need jobs and investment not cuts and reduced handouts.

Having said that , none of these reasons excuse the violence that we've seen over the past couple of days and indeed will make those areas even worse and less likely to attract investment - I have to say that I don't get it at all.

To blame "Years of leftist softly-softly government" is frankly well wide of the mark. Riots have happened periodically for centuries - these are no different.

[Paludrinclub]

Bring back National Service that will sort them out and give them hard labour.

[DerekF]

Bring back National Service that will sort them out and give them hard labour.

How is that going to work then? Remember the cuts? The Army cutting back thousands? Why should our professional armed forces be diluted by criminals? Why train teenagers in the art of killing?

[Paludrinclub]

Bring back National Service that will sort them out and give them hard labour.

How is that going to work then? Remember the cuts? The Army cutting back thousands? Why should our professional armed forces be diluted by criminals? Why train teenagers in the art of killing?

dont train them to kill just to have respect what the military drums into to you and they will break them they should be made to clean up all the mess they have made and pay as well.

[pbeardmore]

Everyone wants a quick fix. From water cannon to National Service. From rubber bullets to taking away benefits.
The truth is, this is a complex situation demands complex solutions. But we hate that, (especially the media who like to turn everything into “text yes to 1234”)
The bottom line is: how can an innocent baby born roughly 18 years ago with no malice or spite in the newly born brains, turn into a stupid thug with no respect for fellow mankind, property and , more importantly, themselves.
During this 18 years, the influences that form them are family (nuclear and extended), friends, peers, education, environment, finance, media, etc etc. Collectively, these influences have completely failed in what they are meant to do (to produce a valued member of society) and produce someone who needs to be locked up.(for everyones sake)
This pattern is repeated thousands of times to a point where collectively they can outnumber the police.
Boris, Cameron, May etc are all coming out with their spin and rallying calls but this is a situation that began when they were still a boarding school and they have little control over the big issues.
A genuine solution, if there is one will be long term and we are useless and carrying through any long term policy, whether it be social or defence.
Hoping for a quiet night, stay safe everyone

[Paludrinclub]

Everyone wants a quick fix. From water cannon to National Service. From rubber bullets to taking away benefits.
The truth is, this is a complex situation demands complex solutions. But we hate that, (especially the media who like to turn everything into “text yes to 1234”)
The bottom line is: how can an innocent baby born roughly 18 years ago with no malice or spite in the newly born brains, turn into a stupid thug with no respect for fellow mankind, property and , more importantly, themselves.
During this 18 years, the influences that form them are family (nuclear and extended), friends, peers, education, environment, finance, media, etc etc. Collectively, these influences have completely failed in what they are meant to do (to produce a valued member of society) and produce someone who needs to be locked up.(for everyones sake)
This pattern is repeated thousands of times to a point where collectively they can outnumber the police.
Boris, Cameron, May etc are all coming out with their spin and rallying calls but this is a situation that began when they were still a boarding school and they have little control over the big issues.
A genuine solution, if there is one will be long term and we are useless and carrying through any long term policy, whether it be social or defence.
Hoping for a quiet night, stay safe everyone

Well said but one thing that made me sick was the male who was assualted getting his belongings stolen from him now that is low of the low I left school without any qualifications I didnt go on like that you respect people but I think there might be more to come yet.

[pbeardmore]

not good timing and not good news

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/ipcc-man-shot- ... 01662.html

..The victim of a police shooting did not fire at officers before he was killed, according to a report by the Independent Police Complaints Commission.

An IPPC ballistics report said there was "no evidence" that a handgun found at the scene had been used.

The death of the 29-year-old sparked the first night of rioting in London in Tottenham.
...

[PeteM]

What was he doing on the streets of Tottenham with a viable firearm?

[DanO1978]

What was he doing on the streets of Tottenham with a viable firearm?

Indeed. You don't carry a gun if you have no intention of using it.

I read that, sadly, five police dogs were hurt last night - one with serious head injuries after being hit by a brick.

[stuart n]

Everyone wants a quick fix. From water cannon to National Service. From rubber bullets to taking away benefits.
The truth is, this is a complex situation demands complex solutions. But we hate that, (especially the media who like to turn everything into “text yes to 1234”)
The bottom line is: how can an innocent baby born roughly 18 years ago with no malice or spite in the newly born brains, turn into a stupid thug with no respect for fellow mankind, property and , more importantly, themselves.
During this 18 years, the influences that form them are family (nuclear and extended), friends, peers, education, environment, finance, media, etc etc. Collectively, these influences have completely failed in what they are meant to do (to produce a valued member of society) and produce someone who needs to be locked up.(for everyones sake)
This pattern is repeated thousands of times to a point where collectively they can outnumber the police.
Boris, Cameron, May etc are all coming out with their spin and rallying calls but this is a situation that began when they were still a boarding school and they have little control over the big issues.
A genuine solution, if there is one will be long term and we are useless and carrying through any long term policy, whether it be social or defence.
Hoping for a quiet night, stay safe everyone

A very good post

[pbeardmore]

What was he doing on the streets of Tottenham with a viable firearm?

I am just as interested in the bullet that lodged in the police radio, press realse on Sky now says that one officer fired two shots so we can put together a scenario that one police officer shot the suspect and then a colleague (or in reverse order), so seems very lucky that an inocent police officer was not killed by a colleague?

[pako-2008]

What was he doing on the streets of Tottenham with a viable firearm?

Exactly!!

Even though they have proved there is no evidence that he fired the gun, who is to say that it wasn't being held in a fire-able position. There may well be justification for the shooting of this guy.

Its very easy for the family to quickly release a statement of how in this day and age, this shouldn't happen. They clearly don't know the full circumstances of the incident, as the details haven't yet been released. I would have waited personally as now the press are creating the feeling that the guy wasn't in the wrong. - More bad press - More potential unrest in the community.

[pbeardmore]

yes, the timing of the press release (in the last 60 mins) is unbeleivable, almost perfectly timed to provide another excuse for more rioting,

tomorrow morning surely would have been a little more sensitive

[Tomahawk]

yes, the timing of the press release (in the last 60 mins) is unbeleivable, almost perfectly timed to provide another excuse for more rioting,

tomorrow morning surely would have been a little more sensitive

The fact he didn't fire is irrelevant, an armed police officer does not have to wait for the other guy to fire first, the officer assesses the risk to life (his own and others) and makes the decision. Presenting the incident based on who actually fired is playing into the hands of those who have an agenda.

[pbeardmore]

yes, the timing of the press release (in the last 60 mins) is unbeleivable, almost perfectly timed to provide another excuse for more rioting,

tomorrow morning surely would have been a little more sensitive

The fact he didn't fire is irrelevant, an armed police officer does not have to wait for the other guy to fire first, the officer assesses the risk to life (his own and others) and makes the decision. Presenting the incident based on who actually fired is playing into the hands of those who have an agenda.

Yes, we all know that on the forum (hopefully), but PR is about managing perception and this press release gives the perception to those who want to use it that way that the police were in the wrong. What is to be gained by releasing this info at this time

[DanO1978]

Agree that the timing of this news release couldn't have been timed worse. You do wonder what the motivation for releasing the news at this time is.