The Angry Thread...

Re: The Angry Thread...

Postby Victor 23 on Tue 09 Oct 2018, 1:20 pm

Why the need now for most people to have a 4x4, taking up car parking spaces etc. If they can afford a 4x4 then they should pay more tax!!
Victor 23

Re: The Angry Thread...

Postby cg_341 on Tue 09 Oct 2018, 1:42 pm

What the hell are you on about?
cg_341

Re: The Angry Thread...

Postby pbeardmore on Tue 09 Oct 2018, 1:50 pm

Consumerism is not based on "need", it's based on want, greed, fear, ignorance and insecurity.

It can be reversed but it takes a degree and stuburness and perhaps smugness. When I park at the local supermarket, I always look around and I'm disappoited if I'm not driving the oldest car. The exact opposite of consumerism where we are brought up to believe that we should all aspire to a new car. As big as possible (forget about parking it or even being able to judge its width on the road), just get as big a car as possible. BIG is good. Of course, many of these are not actually owned by the user but leased. So, they can't actually afford a 4x4.

PS I love owning 100% of my car.
“The best computer is a man, and it’s the only one that can be mass-produced by unskilled labour.”
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Re: The Angry Thread...

Postby CJS on Tue 09 Oct 2018, 2:57 pm

Victor 23 wrote:Why the need now for most people to have a 4x4, taking up car parking spaces etc. If they can afford a 4x4 then they should pay more tax!!


Mostly, car tax wise, they do.
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Re: The Angry Thread...

Postby Brevet Cable on Tue 09 Oct 2018, 3:29 pm

And missing the fact that there are plenty of cars which are larger & less economical than your average '4x4', and the fact that there are plenty of 4WD cars around.

cg_341 wrote:What the hell are you on about?

It'll probably all be Corbyn's fault.
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Re: The Angry Thread...

Postby starbuck on Tue 09 Oct 2018, 4:02 pm

Personally I love the fact I can drive around in a brand new car at a monthly payment I can afford and then give back at the end of the deal before things start going wrong with it. Added to which it is safer, more economical to run and cheaper on tax and no MOT to worry about. And because I don't own it, probably less stressful to my overall wellbeing.

Own 100% of something that will lose money every single day I sit in it? No thanks.

As for the 4x4 comment that started this latest outburst on the angry thread: :facepalm:
starbuck

Re: The Angry Thread...

Postby cg_341 on Tue 09 Oct 2018, 4:21 pm

starbuck wrote:Own 100% of something that will lose money every single day I sit in it? No thanks.

Exactly. I'd happily own 100% of a McLaren F1 Longtail, or a Ferrari 250GT SWB. Every day I own one, it goes up in value, and will probably do so for evermore.

A Ford Fiesta (even in "rare" ST200 guise), a Skoda Fabia, or even a Lamborghini Gallardo do nothing but depreciate. No. Thank. You.

I've owned a hatchback, a fast hatchback, an estate and a "normal" family car. Got to be an SUV next for me! :grin:
cg_341

Re: The Angry Thread...

Postby PeteM on Wed 10 Oct 2018, 8:20 am

Or you could buy a new car and keep it for 8 years, works out the same as leasing a car. Admittedly you've got MOT costs etc. Lets say keep it for 9 years to cover the extra. If you look after it and your mileage is fairly low I reckon it works out near enough the same as leasing.
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Re: The Angry Thread...

Postby boff180 on Wed 10 Oct 2018, 8:52 am

I'll stick with my 4x4 thanks.... I've had normal cars, fast cars, and my 4x4 has got me out of numerous scrapes in the 6 months I've owned it.

And yes during the winter I do find myself in muddy fields and unpaved tracks on a very regular basis.

It is, by far, the most capable and practical car I have ever owned.

Now what I don't understand are SUV's that aren't 4x4 - which many are unless they're top-spec engines (like mine) - those do seem pointless.
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Re: The Angry Thread...

Postby AlexC on Wed 10 Oct 2018, 9:46 am

I'm sure that you're not one of them, but some Range Rover drivers undoubtedly do seem to enjoy intimidating drivers of smaller cars such as mine, or any 'inferior' car perhaps as they may see it come to that. It's not very pleasant having your mirror filled by a dirty great bonnet when you're doing 70, and it's impossible to get out of their way immediately.
Pte. Aubrey Gerald Harmer, R. Suss. R. (att. to the Sherwood Foresters) KIA 26/9/1917 Polygon Wood, aged 19, NKG. RIP
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Re: The Angry Thread...

Postby MiG_Eater on Wed 10 Oct 2018, 9:54 am

The irony with tailgaters is that I naturally slow down in order to give them an improved reaction time for an emergency stop. If we're queuing, again - the safest thing to do is increase the distance with the car in front in order to be able to brake slightly more slowly should they need to stop suddenly.

Oh well... My driving mantra is "everyone on the road is an idiot... including you!"

I must say, I don't notice any particular trends with regard to type of car and bad driving; I just find large 4 x 4s annoying when it comes to car parking...
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Re: The Angry Thread...

Postby boff180 on Wed 10 Oct 2018, 10:17 am

AlexC wrote:I'm sure that you're not one of them, but some Range Rover drivers undoubtedly do seem to enjoy intimidating drivers of smaller cars such as mine, or any 'inferior' car perhaps as they may see it come to that. It's not very pleasant having your mirror filled by a dirty great bonnet when you're doing 70, and it's impossible to get out of their way immediately.


I'm a Skoda driver :grin: my Karoq is awesome.

I'm also a massive advocate of emergency braking/crash radar plus dashcams being made a legal requirement in all new cars.

Coming back from KB on the M25, the traffic just stopped for no apparent reason in front of me.... the Karoq's emergency braking radar saved me from going into the back of the car in front..... didn't stop the 6 or 7 cars behind me going in to the back of me though! :wall:

Was very lucky the damage to mine was minor cosmetic only (thanks to being a slow speed impact) and very quickly fixed by the insurance company as my dashcam footage proved I was not speeding, I did not hit anyone and that I stopped for a genuine reason (making me 100% not at fault from the start of the claim) - it also picked up a single impact on the G sensor - which the insurance company said was evidence the vehicle behind me was pushed in to me and didn't actually "hit me", if that makes sense.
The guy one car back in another 4x4 was either going too fast or was too close... even with crash radar he hit the car in front (and shoved him into me) and also bounced off the central reservation wall before he stopped.
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Re: The Angry Thread...

Postby AlexC on Wed 10 Oct 2018, 10:56 am

I've never heard of the Karoq, had to look it up. :oops: Still, it's part of the VW group so it can't be that bad! :biggrin: Glad to hear that you came out of that accident with relatively minor damage, you need your wits about you at all times on the M25. Well, unless like me you're on it at around 7.30am on a Sunday morning on your way to Old Warden, when you can generally relax a little. Very different story on my way home however! :shock:
Pte. Aubrey Gerald Harmer, R. Suss. R. (att. to the Sherwood Foresters) KIA 26/9/1917 Polygon Wood, aged 19, NKG. RIP
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Re: The Angry Thread...

Postby pbeardmore on Wed 10 Oct 2018, 1:51 pm

The market wants you to lease and car sales guys get more commision for the credit deal than the cash sale. On that basis, they are making more money on the lease side than the sale so, it must be that the lease is more expensiive to the consumer than buying.

However, I do agree that the depreciation on a new car is huge. I am amazed that anyone buys a new car. But if you are happy to drive an older car (oh the shame) , its a no brainer. My 2002 (new to me) Audi was £1500. A lease of a new Audi (same/equal model) would be more than that for one year. The depreciation has gone, someone else paid for that. But it still has the build quality and saftey features of an Audi. It has dings and knocks but none of this effects the way it drives. I would like to see some data but, at a personal level, I see much newer cars on the side of the motorway plus newer cars seem to be so digital that there are just more and more things to go wrong. My Audis rear windows have wind up windows! I think my kids can slum it.

Meanwhile my wifes Mk2 Golf GTI has zero depreciation and people stop to chat and remember the 80s :-) You dont get that with a new lease and a dream to work on under the bonnet.

PS interesting observations about braking radar. Not having a go at you personally BOFF but I think there is a dangerous trend that drivers are starting to rely on these devices and thank them for getting out of a situation (rather than look at their own driving) that they should not be in the first place. If the traffic stops up ahead on a motorway, isn't it our job to have enough distance in relation to speed to stop? Or do we pass this job over to the radar? Eventually, we will have driverless cars and I cant wait but, until then, we are in a potentially dangerous crossover period where the responsibility of the driver compared to the responsibility of the tech is getting confused IMHO
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Re: The Angry Thread...

Postby Brevet Cable on Wed 10 Oct 2018, 2:14 pm

pbeardmore wrote:PS interesting observations about braking radar. Not having a go at you personally BOFF but I think there is a dangerous trend that drivers are starting to rely on these devices and thank them for getting out of a situation (rather than look at their own driving) that they should not be in the first place.

There have been tests involving the auto-braking/distance-keeping radar systems fitted to some cars - they found that there were a number of situations where it didn't work.
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Re: The Angry Thread...

Postby boff180 on Wed 10 Oct 2018, 2:47 pm

They don’t work/aren’t active below a certain speed. It also warns you if you’re too close to the car in front for the speed you’re at.

In my instance I was already on the brake as the traffic was slowing them out of the blue the cars in front performed an emergency stop, the radar and computer put the brakes on harder and faster than the speed I can physically move the pedal. The pedal quite literally disappeared from below my foot to buried in the floor in a millisecond or two.
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Re: The Angry Thread...

Postby Brevet Cable on Wed 10 Oct 2018, 3:06 pm

And they've been found not to work properly if the vehicle in front is a lorry, or at an angle, or a motorbike, amongst other situations.
No different to parking sensors & reversing cameras, really -- useful, but not to be wholly relied upon.
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Re: The Angry Thread...

Postby MiG_Eater on Wed 10 Oct 2018, 3:34 pm

I think its worthwhile constantly driving as though the vehicle in front could emergency stop at any time (which, obviously, is a possibility!).
MiG_Eater

Re: The Angry Thread...

Postby AlexC on Thu 11 Oct 2018, 11:29 am

Brevet Cable wrote:No different to parking sensors & reversing cameras, really -- useful, but not to be wholly relied upon.


You may well be right, but I certainly wouldn't like to be without parking sensors now.
Pte. Aubrey Gerald Harmer, R. Suss. R. (att. to the Sherwood Foresters) KIA 26/9/1917 Polygon Wood, aged 19, NKG. RIP
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Re: The Angry Thread...

Postby Brevet Cable on Thu 11 Oct 2018, 11:47 am

I've lost count of the number of near-misses & the occasional collision I've seen due to drivers being fixated on their parking sensors & reversing cameras rather than making proper all-round visual checks.
The problem is that a heck of a lot of drivers these days place too much reliance on technology whilst not using the Mk.1 eyeball.
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Re: The Angry Thread...

Postby AlexC on Thu 11 Oct 2018, 11:52 am

Oh I certainly make proper all-round checks.
Pte. Aubrey Gerald Harmer, R. Suss. R. (att. to the Sherwood Foresters) KIA 26/9/1917 Polygon Wood, aged 19, NKG. RIP
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Re: The Angry Thread...

Postby MiG_Eater on Thu 11 Oct 2018, 12:00 pm

I think one of the biggest problems is that most drivers consider themselves to be 'good drivers' and don't accept that as human beings we always need to factor in contingency for our own failings. I always assume there's something i've missed and that my reaction times will be poor. Ultimately a little bit of overconfidence can be fatal.
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Re: The Angry Thread...

Postby Victor 23 on Thu 11 Oct 2018, 6:57 pm

To many vehicles on the road!! :sad:
Victor 23

Re: The Angry Thread...

Postby FarnboroJohn on Thu 11 Oct 2018, 9:47 pm

Victor 23 wrote:To many vehicles on the road!! :sad:


Gotta agree with that. I've just had two weeks driving around Shetland (where the roads are good and the traffic suitably light) - what a delight after living in SE England!
FarnboroJohn

Re: The Angry Thread...

Postby speedbird2639 on Thu 11 Oct 2018, 9:53 pm

Victor 23 wrote:To many vehicles on the road!! :sad:


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-45786690 Not for long according to this article.
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