Should we stay or should we go now?

Should the UK leave the EU

Yes
145
56%
No
114
44%
 
Total votes : 259

Re: Should we stay or should we go now?

Postby CJS on Tue 01 Mar 2016, 7:01 am

DanH wrote:
CJS wrote:
speedbird2639 wrote:
DanH wrote:As a side note, is anyone else getting fed up with hearing the term 'Brexit'? Personally I think whoever came up with it ought to be tasered on live TV.


^^This! I would pay to see that happen!


I'd pay more to be the one to do it :-P


Join the queue! :grin:


I've just read the word 'bremain' which I think I hate even more. :-o
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Re: Should we stay or should we go now?

Postby DanH on Tue 01 Mar 2016, 5:50 pm

CJS wrote:
DanH wrote:
CJS wrote:
speedbird2639 wrote:
DanH wrote:As a side note, is anyone else getting fed up with hearing the term 'Brexit'? Personally I think whoever came up with it ought to be tasered on live TV.


^^This! I would pay to see that happen!


I'd pay more to be the one to do it :-P


Join the queue! :grin:


I've just read the word 'bremain' which I think I hate even more. :-o


Oh christ! :wall: :wall:
Always seeking to lower the tone...
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Re: Should we stay or should we go now?

Postby Brevet Cable on Tue 01 Mar 2016, 7:23 pm

Just remember , though , that this current fad started some time ago when it looked like the Greeks were going to bin the EU ( or has everybody already forgotten the term 'Grexit' ? )
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Re: Should we stay or should we go now?

Postby Tim Laurence on Thu 03 Mar 2016, 6:19 pm

I haven't made my mind up yet on which way to vote and can see both sides have strong reasons to stay or leave. It is a shame we have got ourselves in such a mess in the first place to warrant even needing a refendum.

However, if there is one way to lose a vote it has to be the recent b******t tactics that have been in the news recently, where it almost seems as though the desperation claims are taking over the actual truth. I have lost all respect for Cameron and would appreciate it if the 'IN' campaign could provide us with just the logic and facts, rather than scare mongering and trying to frighten naive people. People will see right through it and it could turn their vote the other way. The most pathetic tactic of them all is replacing the word EU with Europe. I read it everyday.

Could it be anymore obvious that the BBC is pro 'IN'! The 'OUT' campaign seem to prioritise picking fault with the other campaign rather than front running with their own strengths. The joys of politics! :sick:

I will be glad when it is all over.
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Re: Should we stay or should we go now?

Postby Brevet Cable on Thu 03 Mar 2016, 7:26 pm

[quote="Tim Laurence....where it almost seems as though the desperation claims are taking over the actual truth. I have lost all respect for Cameron and would appreciate it if the 'IN' campaign could provide us with just the logic and facts, rather than scare mongering and trying to frighten naive people. People will see right through it and it could turn their vote the other way. The most pathetic tactic of them all is replacing the word EU with Europe. I read it everyday.[/quote]
The same could be said for the 'OUT' campaigners , who are also short on facts & long on scaremongering.
For example , the 'Inners' publicise a report from UK business leaders saying Britain is better in , the 'Outers' then do the same with other UK business leaders saying Britain's better off out.
Same happens with reports from multinational businesses.
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Re: Should we stay or should we go now?

Postby Tim Laurence on Thu 03 Mar 2016, 8:00 pm

Brevet Cable wrote:[quote="Tim Laurence....where it almost seems as though the desperation claims are taking over the actual truth. I have lost all respect for Cameron and would appreciate it if the 'IN' campaign could provide us with just the logic and facts, rather than scare mongering and trying to frighten naive people. People will see right through it and it could turn their vote the other way. The most pathetic tactic of them all is replacing the word EU with Europe. I read it everyday.

The same could be said for the 'OUT' campaigners , who are also short on facts & long on scaremongering.
For example , the 'Inners' publicise a report from UK business leaders saying Britain is better in , the 'Outers' then do the same with other UK business leaders saying Britain's better off out.
Same happens with reports from multinational businesses.[/quote]

I think both campaigns should promote honesty and have long term best interests for the UK in mind. As you point out, the reports contradict each other and I would not be surprised if the intentions of these business leaders are based on short term, economic gains for themselves rather than looking out for the average working class British people.

The entire referendum is dirty and I think the result itself will cause more controversy and problems as the dust settles. If the UK votes leaves the EU, would Cameron resign...
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Re: Should we stay or should we go now?

Postby Brevet Cable on Thu 03 Mar 2016, 9:29 pm

Caught bits & pieces of a debate on BBC News24 earlier.....owner of big multinational companies ( Mogul Industries or something ) and the owner of a smallish UK cleaning company.
Big businessman was an 'Inner', small businessman was an 'Outer'.
Small businessman's main complaint was all the rules & regulations coming from the EU ; Big businessman's counter-argument was that it's not the rules & regs coming from the EU , it's how the UK Parliament implement them.
UK Govt. will interpret the requirements in their harshest form ( often going beyond the original requirements ) and over-regulate ; Germany & France ( where the big businessman also has factories ) tend to do the opposite & introduce the minimum legislation needed to meet the regulation's requirements.
Hence why it's only really in the UK where catering industries have all stainless steel fittings or where everybody & their dog wears PPE for no good reason.
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Re: Should we stay or should we go now?

Postby TKK 140 on Thu 03 Mar 2016, 10:01 pm

Is it the case that when a EU regulation comes into effect, it is "law" that can ulimately only be interpreted and judged on by the Supreme European Court.? Also is it correct that all conflicting laws have to be amended or removed?

Anyone hear the Prof on radio 4 saying his research has been stopped by EU rules, which then motivated him to research the out put of red tape. Countered by a PHD chap saying we were better together? The Prof said we write more (academic) papers with the US, whether he meant in total or in his field I am not sure. An interesting and sensible debate between them I thought.
TKK 140

Re: Should we stay or should we go now?

Postby Tim Laurence on Sun 06 Mar 2016, 10:32 am

Was reading this today and it highlights exactly what is wrong about the referendum. Bullying and against freedom to an opinion and vote.

Boris Johnson has condemned the British Chamber of Commerce after it suspended its director general, John Longworth for suggesting the UK could have a brighter future outside the European Union.

It has been reported in The Sunday Telegraph that Downing Street had "bullied" and "put pressure" on BCC board members to suspend Mr Longworth.

Mr Johnson said: "It is absolutely scandalous that John Longworth has been forced to step aside.

This is a man who reached the conclusion - after long reflection and a lifetime's experience of business - that it would be better to vote Leave.

His verdict reflects the reality - that the EU has changed out of all recognition from the Common Market that this country joined.

He speaks for the many small and medium sized businesses - the lifeblood of the economy - who cannot understand why they should comply with more and more regulation, over which this country has no democratic control.

It cannot be right that when someone has the guts to dissent from the establishment line, he or she is immediately crushed by the agents of Project Fear."


Most of the armed forces want to leave the EU.....does that mean that they will get suspended too.
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Re: Should we stay or should we go now?

Postby Wissam24 on Sun 06 Mar 2016, 10:40 am

I thought Project Fear was the Out campaign...

Where did you read that? And what's your source for the armed forces "fact"?
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Re: Should we stay or should we go now?

Postby TKK 140 on Sun 06 Mar 2016, 1:18 pm

In the week the French clear the jungle and the PM meets Hollande they appear at a press conference to extend project fear by suggesting the border agreement will be scrapped. Pre arranged?

OK so Dover has to re establish border controls meaning any landing with out the correct visas will be returned by the carrier, i.e. Back to France. Of course we can come to an arrangement with European countries so there passport holders are exempt.

At the moment some are like people who have only ever experienced a one state system. They know nothing else.
TKK 140

Re: Should we stay or should we go now?

Postby boff180 on Sun 06 Mar 2016, 1:23 pm

The BCC had decided to stay neutral, he has been suspended for taking a side. It was only right he got suspended.

Tim Laurence wrote:Was reading this today and it highlights exactly what is wrong about the referendum. Bullying and against freedom to an opinion and vote.

Boris Johnson has condemned the British Chamber of Commerce after it suspended its director general, John Longworth for suggesting the UK could have a brighter future outside the European Union.

It has been reported in The Sunday Telegraph that Downing Street had "bullied" and "put pressure" on BCC board members to suspend Mr Longworth.

Mr Johnson said: "It is absolutely scandalous that John Longworth has been forced to step aside.

This is a man who reached the conclusion - after long reflection and a lifetime's experience of business - that it would be better to vote Leave.

His verdict reflects the reality - that the EU has changed out of all recognition from the Common Market that this country joined.

He speaks for the many small and medium sized businesses - the lifeblood of the economy - who cannot understand why they should comply with more and more regulation, over which this country has no democratic control.

It cannot be right that when someone has the guts to dissent from the establishment line, he or she is immediately crushed by the agents of Project Fear."


Most of the armed forces want to leave the EU.....does that mean that they will get suspended too.
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Re: Should we stay or should we go now?

Postby Brevet Cable on Sun 06 Mar 2016, 1:29 pm

Boris Johnson talking garbage , as always.
The BCC's official policy in this debate is that they will remain neutral due to the fact that it's membership is split ( in fact , almost 60% have expressed the opinion that they feel the UK is better off remaining in the EU )
You cannot then have the Chairman - or any other senior official - from the BCC gobbing-off in support of either side as this breaches the aforementioned impartiality....and his excuse that he did so in a private capacity is meaningless.

Tim Laurence wrote:Most of the armed forces want to leave the EU.....does that mean that they will get suspended too.

Presumably this comes from the same set of 'facts' that - over the years - have claimed that most Armed Forces personnel vote Tory , or more recently that most of them vote UKIP.
That's about as accurate as the claims several years ago that the majority of Squaddies are BNP/NF supporters.
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Re: Should we stay or should we go now?

Postby TKK 140 on Sun 06 Mar 2016, 1:38 pm

It is the right of everyone to express an opinion, if he said that the BCC was neutral but this was his personal opinion (oh yes we still have that right). If that was the case I can't see he did anything wrong.
TKK 140

Re: Should we stay or should we go now?

Postby boff180 on Sun 06 Mar 2016, 2:00 pm

Whilst he has (since) claimed he was expressing his personal opinion, he made the statement whilst he was attending the BCC Conference and representing the BCC in front of the Press.
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Re: Should we stay or should we go now?

Postby TKK 140 on Sun 06 Mar 2016, 2:20 pm

As I did not attend I really could not judge, seems a witch hunt and pretty small beer, a mere distraction.

The much bigger news of the week is the seemingly stage managed clearance of the Jungle in preparation for the press conference, pretty low in itself for the politics and the effect on the camp occupants. They will rebuild have no doubt after the focus has shifted. But turfing them out in early March is hardly compassionate.

For all those heads of EU states expressing a stay in threat or opinion and then saying "but it is for the people of the U.K. to decide"
Please do not be such hypocrites.
TKK 140

Re: Should we stay or should we go now?

Postby boff180 on Sun 06 Mar 2016, 2:23 pm

The Jungle... The authorities had set up a clean, well maintained container encampment just to the north of the site and had asked the occupants to move there. They refused, the authorities responded the only way they could.
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Re: Should we stay or should we go now?

Postby TKK 140 on Sun 06 Mar 2016, 2:45 pm

Yes they did, they could have left it as they have on past occasions. The camps appear only to be cleared just before a political event. Why two days before the PM meets Mon. Hollande. Coincidence, "yeah right"!

The point about the press conference is the key one, it shows " fear project" is orchestrated outwith our borders too.
TKK 140

Re: Should we stay or should we go now?

Postby Brevet Cable on Sun 06 Mar 2016, 3:32 pm

TKK 140 wrote:The camps appear only to be cleared just before a political event. Why two days before the PM meets Mon. Hollande. Coincidence, "yeah right"!


Actually the residents of Calais have been getting increasingly fed up with it & have been calling for the camp to be cleared for ages.
The Mayor has been fighting the issue through the French courts for some time & it's taken until now for the legalities to be resolved ( although they still want the whole of the camp cleared rather than just the small part of it that is being cleared )
As for the 'gimmegrunts' residing there.....many of them have openly stated that they won't relocate to the provided encampment because to do so would mean they have to register as assylum-seekers/refugees in France , which they don't want to do ( they want to come to the UK & register here )
The following is part of a recent press conference given by Calais residents ( With apologies to the Mods if you feel it isn't suitable & delete it )
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Re: Should we stay or should we go now?

Postby boff180 on Sun 06 Mar 2016, 4:04 pm

Brevet is right, there is more going on that just our referendum and it's kind of arrogant to think that all these acts are being staged for the UK governments benefit.

On the other side of Europe, Greece are in real trouble, whether in the EU or not, as an ally and friend of Greece I do believe we should be helping as a nation. Whether that is providing man power support or financial aid to help the Greek government secure their borders.

The Referendum angle is that the Leave campaign has been quite vocal pointing to these refugees and insinuating that staying in the EU will result in them coming to the UK soon. Playing on the Daily Mail and UKIP mentality.

In reality, yes as part of the EU we will be part of the solution and will take our fair share of migrants that have a valid claim.
The Channel forms a very hard to cross natural barrier with our border controls currently being located on the French side, this is shielding us from the worst of what is happening..

However, leaving the EU (as France have already said) will result in our border controls moving to the British side of the Channel... which means the refugees will cross the channel before hitting a blocking point. The result? The "Jungle" or any future incarnation, moving the Folkestone or Dover.
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Re: Should we stay or should we go now?

Postby TKK 140 on Sun 06 Mar 2016, 4:08 pm

Diversion of subject.
Whilst I have every sympathy with the residents of Calais this is not the press conference I referred too!

For the avoidance of any doubt it is the press conference, and specifically Mons. Hollande stating there would be consequences if we leave the EU to wit I referred.
TKK 140

Re: Should we stay or should we go now?

Postby TKK 140 on Sun 06 Mar 2016, 4:12 pm

boff180 wrote:Brevet is right, there is more going on that just our referendum and it's kind of arrogant to think that all these acts are being staged for the UK governments benefit.

On the other side of Europe, Greece are in real trouble, whether in the EU or not, as an ally and friend of Greece I do believe we should be helping as a nation. Whether that is providing man power support or financial aid to help the Greek government secure their borders.

The Referendum angle is that the Leave campaign has been quite vocal pointing to these refugees and insinuating that staying in the EU will result in them coming to the UK soon. Playing on the Daily Mail and UKIP mentality.

In reality, yes as part of the EU we will be part of the solution and will take our fair share of migrants that have a valid claim.
The Channel forms a very hard to cross natural barrier with our border controls currently being located on the French side, this is shielding us from the worst of what is happening..

However, leaving the EU (as France have already said) will result in our border controls moving to the British side of the Channel... which means the refugees will cross the channel before hitting a blocking point. The result? The "Jungle" or any future incarnation, moving the Folkestone or Dover.




Not necessarily, remember we would determine our border laws, they would be refused entry and returned on the basis that they should apply in the first country that they arrive in.
TKK 140

Re: Should we stay or should we go now?

Postby boff180 on Sun 06 Mar 2016, 4:17 pm

You are assuming there that France would accept them back....
You scenario doesn't take into account what's happening on EU's eastern borders.

If we leave all bets are off.
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Re: Should we stay or should we go now?

Postby TKK 140 on Sun 06 Mar 2016, 4:26 pm

The French have not made any statement other than consequences? Where have they made any factual statements of detail?

Should add that a withdrawal of the access to the UK via the tunnel would soon sort that out.
TKK 140

Re: Should we stay or should we go now?

Postby boff180 on Sun 06 Mar 2016, 4:37 pm

TKK 140 wrote:The French have not made any statement other than consequences? Where have they made any factual statements of detail?

Should add that a withdrawal of the access to the UK via the tunnel would soon sort that out.


The French Economic Minister made the statement regarding border controls to the Financial Times.

Closing the Tunnel would quite severely damage our trade with the continent as was seen by the tunnel closures last year, that scenario would damage the economy.
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