Should we stay or should we go now?

Should the UK leave the EU

Yes
145
56%
No
114
44%
 
Total votes : 259

Re: Should we stay or should we go now?

Postby speedbird2639 on Sat 08 Apr 2017, 6:52 pm

Dano - do you label everyone who disagrees with you as a thick racist?
User avatar
speedbird2639

Re: Should we stay or should we go now?

Postby RAF4EVER on Sat 08 Apr 2017, 7:31 pm

I voted remain, as I live and work in The Netherlands,hoping for some security,as I would like to continue living and working here,without too much hassle.
RAF4EVER

Re: Should we stay or should we go now?

Postby AlexC on Sat 08 Apr 2017, 8:47 pm

speedbird2639 wrote:Dano - do you label everyone who disagrees with you as a thick racist?


Having a little spare time I thought that I'd go back and check out DanO's repertoire of name-calling regarding leavers, and it was quite illuminating if nothing else. So here goes, in no particular order according to DanO leavers are as follows:- racist (although apparently not every Brexit voter is a racist, so that's a bit of a relief) educationally-stunted, simpletons, lunatics, ocean-going imbeciles (whatever that means?), turkeys, (presumably the voting for Christmas sort, but that doesn't appear to be specified) xenophobes, morons, muppets, just imbeciles, not the ocean-going variety, low IQ, bigoted, small-minded, short-sighted, dumbed-down, knuckle-dragging Luddites (that's my fav) dimmer-bulbs, just dim, no mention of a bulb in this instance, feeble-minded, and the old voting selfishly, phew, quite some list. And then he goes and insults a National Treasure. Quite a guy is our DanO!
Pte. Aubrey Gerald Harmer, R. Suss. R. (att. to the Sherwood Foresters) KIA 26/9/1917 Polygon Wood, aged 19, NKG. RIP
User avatar
AlexC

Re: Should we stay or should we go now?

Postby speedbird2639 on Sat 08 Apr 2017, 8:57 pm

AlexC wrote:
speedbird2639 wrote:Dano - do you label everyone who disagrees with you as a thick racist?


Having a little spare time I thought that I'd go back and check out DanO's repertoire of name-calling regarding leavers, and it was quite illuminating if nothing else. So here goes, in no particular order according to DanO leavers are as follows:- racist (although apparently not every Brexit voter is a racist, so that's a bit of a relief) educationally-stunted, simpletons, lunatics, ocean-going imbeciles (whatever that means?), turkeys, (presumably the voting for Christmas sort, but that doesn't appear to be specified) xenophobes, morons, muppets, just imbeciles, not the ocean-going variety, low IQ, bigoted, small-minded, short-sighted, dumbed-down, knuckle-dragging Luddites (that's my fav) dimmer-bulbs, just dim, no mention of a bulb in this instance, feeble-minded, and the old voting selfishly, phew, quite some list. And then he goes and insults a National Treasure. Quite a guy is our DanO!


And he's just this bitter because he came second in a 2 horse race! :loser:
User avatar
speedbird2639

Re: Should we stay or should we go now?

Postby ericbee123 on Sat 08 Apr 2017, 9:49 pm

AlexC wrote:
Having a little spare time I thought that I'd go back and check out DanO's repertoire of name-calling regarding leavers, and it was quite illuminating if nothing else. So here goes, in no particular order according to DanO leavers are as follows:- racist (although apparently not every Brexit voter is a racist, so that's a bit of a relief) educationally-stunted, simpletons, lunatics, ocean-going imbeciles (whatever that means?), turkeys, (presumably the voting for Christmas sort, but that doesn't appear to be specified) xenophobes, morons, muppets, just imbeciles, not the ocean-going variety, low IQ, bigoted, small-minded, short-sighted, dumbed-down, knuckle-dragging Luddites (that's my fav) dimmer-bulbs, just dim, no mention of a bulb in this instance, feeble-minded, and the old voting selfishly, phew, quite some list. And then he goes and insults a National Treasure. Quite a guy is our DanO!


Alex you forgot to mention he also wants to "sort out" Islamic extremists.

Dan O'Hagan wrote:I'm sure the usual candlelit vigils, Twitter virtue signalling, Facebook profile flags and hashtags will make us all feel much safer and much better, until the next one.

Rinse and repeat. Governments fiddling while Rome burns.


Maybe a round table discussion on how we can find common ground somewhere between their goal of killing all infidels and submitting everyone to the will of Allah and our goal of being nice to them and tolerating them where possible.

Wouldn't want to do anything knuckle-draggingish.

Good luck.
Disclaimer-I have spell/grammar checked this post, it may still contain mistakes that might cause offence.
User avatar
ericbee123

Re: Should we stay or should we go now?

Postby Dan O'Hagan on Sat 08 Apr 2017, 10:17 pm

ericbee123 wrote:
AlexC wrote:
Having a little spare time I thought that I'd go back and check out DanO's repertoire of name-calling regarding leavers, and it was quite illuminating if nothing else. So here goes, in no particular order according to DanO leavers are as follows:- racist (although apparently not every Brexit voter is a racist, so that's a bit of a relief) educationally-stunted, simpletons, lunatics, ocean-going imbeciles (whatever that means?), turkeys, (presumably the voting for Christmas sort, but that doesn't appear to be specified) xenophobes, morons, muppets, just imbeciles, not the ocean-going variety, low IQ, bigoted, small-minded, short-sighted, dumbed-down, knuckle-dragging Luddites (that's my fav) dimmer-bulbs, just dim, no mention of a bulb in this instance, feeble-minded, and the old voting selfishly, phew, quite some list. And then he goes and insults a National Treasure. Quite a guy is our DanO!


Alex you forgot to mention he also wants to "sort out" Islamic extremists.

Dan O'Hagan wrote:I'm sure the usual candlelit vigils, Twitter virtue signalling, Facebook profile flags and hashtags will make us all feel much safer and much better, until the next one.

Rinse and repeat. Governments fiddling while Rome burns.


Maybe a round table discussion on how we can find common ground somewhere between their goal of killing all infidels and submitting everyone to the will of Allah and our goal of being nice to them and tolerating them where possible.

Wouldn't want to do anything knuckle-draggingish.

Good luck.


Eh? Who said anything about religion and "sorting out"?

But prove me wrong on the nature of Brexiters. Go on?
Dan O'Hagan

Re: Should we stay or should we go now?

Postby Brevet Cable on Sat 08 Apr 2017, 10:18 pm

AlexC wrote:Having a little spare time I thought that I'd go back and check out DanO's repertoire of name-calling regarding leavers (snip).
Quite a guy is our DanO!


At least it's showing more thought than the insults posted by some of the 'Leave' supporters on here, which are restricted to 'remainiacs' & 'project fear'.


And can I throw in intellectual pygmy, neophyte & nithing for a bit of variety when it comes to insults ?
Brevet.. Meh !!
Not an enthusiast or a spotter
trollpikken fforwm swyddogol
User avatar
Brevet Cable

Re: Should we stay or should we go now?

Postby Tommy on Sat 08 Apr 2017, 11:29 pm

Nice of y'all to round on DanO instead of dealing with what is, by definition, hate speech in that quite frankly poisonous poster.

Surely all of your priorities, regardless of your opinions on DanO, are firstly to condemn that utterly vile poster put out by Leave.EU?

Has Theresa May condemned this poster yet? She was quick enough off the mark to condemn this irrelevant and petty "Easter eggs" farrago... :tumbleweed:
User avatar
Tommy
UKAR Staff

Re: Should we stay or should we go now?

Postby Brevet Cable on Sun 09 Apr 2017, 12:11 am

Plenty more like that on the twitter feed it's linked from......in fact, it would be more precise to say that there's worse on there.
You'd be forgiven for thinking it was actually the 'Britain First' twitter feed.
Brevet.. Meh !!
Not an enthusiast or a spotter
trollpikken fforwm swyddogol
User avatar
Brevet Cable

Re: Should we stay or should we go now?

Postby Dan O'Hagan on Sun 09 Apr 2017, 8:08 am

Tommy wrote:Nice of y'all to round on DanO instead of dealing with what is, by definition, hate speech in that quite frankly poisonous poster.

Surely all of your priorities, regardless of your opinions on DanO, are firstly to condemn that utterly vile poster put out by Leave.EU?

Has Theresa May condemned this poster yet? She was quick enough off the mark to condemn this irrelevant and petty "Easter eggs" farrago... :tumbleweed:


There's no condemnation on here because the Brexit brigade would love a return to hanging (especially of people like in the photograph), to go with their blue passports, pounds, shillings and pence and machine guns at Dover.

Britain has gone quite mad since June, or more accurately idiots who live in the past have been given a voice when before they dribbled into their Daily Express on the lunatic fringe.
Dan O'Hagan

Re: Should we stay or should we go now?

Postby speedbird2639 on Sun 09 Apr 2017, 8:21 am

But unfortunately for you Dan us racist idiots have been proven to be the majority. You can't really support democracy and everyone being a stakeholder in making the decision and then moan because it turns out you support the minority point of view. You've been going on about this since June '16 and you are starting to sound like a prepubescent girl who is having a tearful breakdown because her favourite pop star left 1D/ Union J.

So what are you going to do? Stay here and moan about it for the next 40 years or move to Europe before Ryanair/ easyjet go bust and we blow up the tunnel?
User avatar
speedbird2639

Re: Should we stay or should we go now?

Postby Dan O'Hagan on Sun 09 Apr 2017, 8:35 am

speedbird2639 wrote:But unfortunately for you Dan us racist idiots have been proven to be the majority. You can't really support democracy and everyone being a stakeholder in making the decision and then moan because it turns out you support the minority point of view. You've been going on about this since June '16 and you are starting to sound like a prepubescent girl who is having a tearful breakdown because her favourite pop star left 1D/ Union J.

So what are you going to do? Stay here and moan about it for the next 40 years or move to Europe before Ryanair/ easyjet go bust and we blow up the tunnel?


And still no condemnation of the hanging tweet...

A "minority" of 48%. I've yet to meet anyone of intelligence who was part of the 52%. Why should those with brains, education and a meaningful future stake in the country meekly lay down and accept something voted on by the kind of people you'd not trust to boil an egg, who made their decision based on cancerous newspapers, political lies and inherent racial prejudice?
Dan O'Hagan

Re: Should we stay or should we go now?

Postby UKTopgun on Sun 09 Apr 2017, 8:38 am

As has been said so many times before, although of course a percentage of the 52 voted with a clear rationale knowing all the facts, I maintain that a large proportion voted leave based on little or no appreciation of the issues at stake and scant understanding of the implications of leave apart from what the Mail, Farage et al drove into them re 'taking back control', an enticing proposition to many but a much more empty promise when you understand that it just can't happen in the way it was promised. But yes of course democracy wins as it should, and now we leave. But I don't think that means all Britons who voted remain should shut up or emigrate as seems to be suggested so often on here. The way our democracy also works is that the views of those opposed to Brexit can also be heard, and should continue to be, even if that will not change the outcome. To suggest Remainers should now shut up or leave the country as they represent the minority view is akin to saying Labour or any other political party should go away now the Tories are in power, thank goodness we have democracy and are not North Korea. There was no clear mandate in June for Brexit, it was marginal. Clear would have been 80 percent for example.

While this country remains an open democracy, remainers maintain the right to be a voice for the other side, even if it will not change anything. It is the way it should be and the way it always has been.
Last edited by UKTopgun on Sun 09 Apr 2017, 7:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
UKTopgun
UKAR Supporter


Re: Should we stay or should we go now?

Postby DonaldGrump on Sun 09 Apr 2017, 9:04 am

Dan O'Hagan wrote:
speedbird2639 wrote:But unfortunately for you Dan us racist idiots have been proven to be the majority. You can't really support democracy and everyone being a stakeholder in making the decision and then moan because it turns out you support the minority point of view. You've been going on about this since June '16 and you are starting to sound like a prepubescent girl who is having a tearful breakdown because her favourite pop star left 1D/ Union J.

So what are you going to do? Stay here and moan about it for the next 40 years or move to Europe before Ryanair/ easyjet go bust and we blow up the tunnel?


And still no condemnation of the hanging tweet...

A "minority" of 48%. I've yet to meet anyone of intelligence who was part of the 52%. Why should those with brains, education and a meaningful future stake in the country meekly lay down and accept something voted on by the kind of people you'd not trust to boil an egg, who made their decision based on cancerous newspapers, political lies and inherent racial prejudice?


The laughable thing is you are beyond any question the most prejudice individual on this board. I find it quite astonishing the insults and bile you churn out. Spouting on about the educated and non educated and so on.

How many times have you had the balls to speak your views face to face not when hiding behind a keyboard?
DonaldGrump

Re: Should we stay or should we go now?

Postby TKK 140 on Sun 09 Apr 2017, 11:00 am

Tommy wrote:Nice of y'all to round on DanO instead of dealing with what is, by definition, hate speech in that quite frankly poisonous poster.

Surely all of your priorities, regardless of your opinions on DanO, are firstly to condemn that utterly vile poster put out by Leave.EU?

Has Theresa May condemned this poster yet? She was quick enough off the mark to condemn this irrelevant and petty "Easter eggs" farrago... :tumbleweed:



What the problem is Tommy is he's one of your and UKAR mods buddies that's why he gets away with similar comments that are just as stupid and offenncive as the twitter feeds he uses to try to score points. A troll. What's worse is the mods appear to protect him. Tell me it's not so. So much for fair and unbiased moderation and enforcement of the rules.
:pinkwafer: :pinkwafer: :pinkwafer:
TKK 140

Re: Should we stay or should we go now?

Postby DonaldGrump on Sun 09 Apr 2017, 11:21 am

TKK 140 wrote:
Tommy wrote:Nice of y'all to round on DanO instead of dealing with what is, by definition, hate speech in that quite frankly poisonous poster.

Surely all of your priorities, regardless of your opinions on DanO, are firstly to condemn that utterly vile poster put out by Leave.EU?

Has Theresa May condemned this poster yet? She was quick enough off the mark to condemn this irrelevant and petty "Easter eggs" farrago... :tumbleweed:



What the problem is Tommy is he's one of your and UKAR mods buddies that's why he gets away with similar comments that are just as stupid and offenncive as the twitter feeds he uses to try to score points. A troll. What's worse is the mods appear to protect him. Tell me it's not so. So much for fair and unbiased moderation and enforcement of the rules.
:pinkwafer: :pinkwafer: :pinkwafer:



This! The bloke gets away with insulting the vast majority of the population, let alone posters on here. If he said these things in public to peoples faces he would get clumped within minutes.

Still when I read some of the drivel written by he and his ilk it makes me proud to have voted to leave and further served to reassure any doubts I had before and after the referendum.
DonaldGrump

Re: Should we stay or should we go now?

Postby Dan O'Hagan on Sun 09 Apr 2017, 11:46 am

52% v 48% = "vast majority".

Brexit mathematics, right there.
Dan O'Hagan

Re: Should we stay or should we go now?

Postby DonaldGrump on Sun 09 Apr 2017, 12:04 pm

Dan O'Hagan wrote:52% v 48% = "vast majority".

Brexit mathematics, right there.



In terms of percentage you have insulted, put down or condemned in some way is much higher than 52%, that is what i refer to. The percentage of people who voted to leave the EU has no relevance to the point I was making other than they obviously make up a significant proportion of those in society whom are classed as peasants or uneducated riff raff in your somewhat bitter and twisted self preserving and cowardly views of how we should all live and think.

Perhaps you could have a stab at explaining to me how your great EU vision would actually work. Perhaps channel some of your energy in making a real case for it rather than just screaming and crying and hurling insults? I do appreciate it is a Tory trait to try to avoid giving answers to questions by diverting attention away by blaming someone or anyone for being something totally unconnected with the question asked.

So the floor is yours Dan, tell me how you think you can unite all these countries with their differing languages religions views pace of life, work & social ethics?
DonaldGrump

Re: Should we stay or should we go now?

Postby Dan O'Hagan on Sun 09 Apr 2017, 12:17 pm

DonaldGrump wrote:
Dan O'Hagan wrote:52% v 48% = "vast majority".

Brexit mathematics, right there.



In terms of percentage you have insulted, put down or condemned in some way is much higher than 52%, that is what i refer to. The percentage of people who voted to leave the EU has no relevance to the point I was making other than they obviously make up a significant proportion of those in society whom are classed as peasants or uneducated riff raff in your somewhat bitter and twisted self preserving and cowardly views of how we should all live and think.

Perhaps you could have a stab at explaining to me how your great EU vision would actually work. Perhaps channel some of your energy in making a real case for it rather than just screaming and crying and hurling insults? I do appreciate it is a Tory trait to try to avoid giving answers to questions by diverting attention away by blaming someone or anyone for being something totally unconnected with the question asked.

So the floor is yours Dan, tell me how you think you can unite all these countries with their differing languages religions views pace of life, work & social ethics?


No-one is suggesting for one second the EU is perfect. The Euro is patently bonkers, for the reasons you state. A complex economy like Germany's cannot operate with the same currency as an economy like that of Greece, built largely on tourism. The UK needs to remain part of the European trading bloc, as we were. And as was voted on in the 1970s. To pull out completely, in a fit of racist pique, is to completely spite one's face by biting off your nose.

There was a need to modify our relationship with the EU. But from within. Not from without. We now hold NONE of the bartering chips. We're seen as a silly, isolationist little island at war with itself, clinging on to delusions of Empire and grandeur.

As for "social ethics"? Are we that different from Europeans?
Dan O'Hagan

Re: Should we stay or should we go now?

Postby tankbuster on Sun 09 Apr 2017, 12:57 pm

Dan O'Hagan wrote:
DonaldGrump wrote:
Dan O'Hagan wrote:52% v 48% = "vast majority".

Brexit mathematics, right there.



In terms of percentage you have insulted, put down or condemned in some way is much higher than 52%, that is what i refer to. The percentage of people who voted to leave the EU has no relevance to the point I was making other than they obviously make up a significant proportion of those in society whom are classed as peasants or uneducated riff raff in your somewhat bitter and twisted self preserving and cowardly views of how we should all live and think.

Perhaps you could have a stab at explaining to me how your great EU vision would actually work. Perhaps channel some of your energy in making a real case for it rather than just screaming and crying and hurling insults? I do appreciate it is a Tory trait to try to avoid giving answers to questions by diverting attention away by blaming someone or anyone for being something totally unconnected with the question asked.

So the floor is yours Dan, tell me how you think you can unite all these countries with their differing languages religions views pace of life, work & social ethics?


No-one is suggesting for one second the EU is perfect. The Euro is patently bonkers, for the reasons you state. A complex economy like Germany's cannot operate with the same currency as an economy like that of Greece, built largely on tourism. The UK needs to remain part of the European trading bloc, as we were. And as was voted on in the 1970s. To pull out completely, in a fit of racist pique, is to completely spite one's face by biting off your nose.

There was a need to modify our relationship with the EU. But from within. Not from without. We now hold NONE of the bartering chips. We're seen as a silly, isolationist little island at war with itself, clinging on to delusions of Empire and grandeur.

As for "social ethics"? Are we that different from Europeans?


Totally agree Dan. We are doing fine, well actually very well, within this union of cooperating countries and good ideas even though sometimes it is admittedly a crazy complex union that is in need of repair and which will still be evolving in a hundred years time. We were well placed to support that continued evolution and continue our prosperity. I have still yet to see any advantage or benefits that has been gained by the signing of Article 50 or indeed anyway that we will be better off financially or socially in the next few years. That's not to say there aren't any benefits only that I have yet to be shown them.
Trevor C
recent and not so recent pictures here https://trevorc28a.wixsite.com/trevspics
User avatar
tankbuster

Re: Should we stay or should we go now?

Postby Tommy on Sun 09 Apr 2017, 1:05 pm

TKK 140 wrote:What the problem is Tommy is he's one of your and UKAR mods buddies that's why he gets away with similar comments that are just as stupid and offenncive as the twitter feeds he uses to try to score points. A troll. What's worse is the mods appear to protect him. Tell me it's not so. So much for fair and unbiased moderation and enforcement of the rules.
:pinkwafer: :pinkwafer: :pinkwafer:


What the problem is, TKK, is that you're wrong. Completely.

DanO is not a moderator/staff member, he has not been for some years, and I have never been a staff member/moderator at any time whilst DanO was. I don't call DanO a "buddy" because I don't know him and he doesn't know me. Your allegation that the moderators "appear to protect" him is utterly false, but I'm not going to discuss what actions have or have not been taken against him or any member of UKAR for your own sake. UKAR, nor its staff members, should not be divulging private discussions/disciplinary records of any members.

So yes; it's not so. Your above post is wrong in every single respect. You can leave your pink wafers if you like, but I must confess, that I thought you were above this kind of pettiness, TKK. :sad:

Still no condemnation of that poster from amyone, then? I don't want to judge or determine things based on what people do or say, but some here are making it difficult. I still cannot understand how people's priorities are to knock DanO before condemning hate speech is all I'm saying. You know it is perfectly possible to say something like:

"Yeah, a terrible, vile, and poisonous poster, but I disagree with DanO's overall comments about..."

:tumbleweed:
User avatar
Tommy
UKAR Staff

Re: Should we stay or should we go now?

Postby DonaldGrump on Sun 09 Apr 2017, 1:10 pm

Dan O'Hagan wrote:
DonaldGrump wrote:
Dan O'Hagan wrote:52% v 48% = "vast majority".

Brexit mathematics, right there.



In terms of percentage you have insulted, put down or condemned in some way is much higher than 52%, that is what i refer to. The percentage of people who voted to leave the EU has no relevance to the point I was making other than they obviously make up a significant proportion of those in society whom are classed as peasants or uneducated riff raff in your somewhat bitter and twisted self preserving and cowardly views of how we should all live and think.

Perhaps you could have a stab at explaining to me how your great EU vision would actually work. Perhaps channel some of your energy in making a real case for it rather than just screaming and crying and hurling insults? I do appreciate it is a Tory trait to try to avoid giving answers to questions by diverting attention away by blaming someone or anyone for being something totally unconnected with the question asked.

So the floor is yours Dan, tell me how you think you can unite all these countries with their differing languages religions views pace of life, work & social ethics?


No-one is suggesting for one second the EU is perfect. The Euro is patently bonkers, for the reasons you state. A complex economy like Germany's cannot operate with the same currency as an economy like that of Greece, built largely on tourism. The UK needs to remain part of the European trading bloc, as we were. And as was voted on in the 1970s. To pull out completely, in a fit of racist pique, is to completely spite one's face by biting off your nose.

There was a need to modify our relationship with the EU. But from within. Not from without. We now hold NONE of the bartering chips. We're seen as a silly, isolationist little island at war with itself, clinging on to delusions of Empire and grandeur.

As for "social ethics"? Are we that different from Europeans?



There you go all valid points that have been debated at length, as you know there are equally valid counter arguments and I actually think there was no huge majority either way demonstrate the reality that nobody really knows whether we have taken the right direction or the road to hell. You on the other hand blame a lack of education and still you cannot resist chucking the racism card.

I think you are rather dismissive of the realities of why people voted as they did..either way.

Are we that different to Europeans in many ways yes. Its not just us that are different though its all the other nations who differ with each other too. Its not about some being better than others its simply different. Those differences are not a bad thing they are good. They are what has made Europe a diverse and interesting place.

Lets take your area of interest, racism. Forget Farage the Daily Heil and any other domestic source of good old fashioned "kick the buggers out" racism. Lets look into Europe. No amount of "education" will change the fact that countries such as those in Eastern Europe like Poland Hungary will ever tolerate the level of multiculturalism we have here. You will never take the hatred the Greeks have for the Albanians or Turks. You know as well as I do that the UK is one of the least racist countries in Europe if not the world, if rightly or wrongly it is a barrier to a successful European state just ignoring is foolish and going ahead anyway will simply eventually go up in flames like Yugoslavia did.

Can most of the peoples of Europe get on and trade with each other and so on? by and large yes. Trying to turn it into a big union/state is utter and absolute madness just not workable. The old EEC was a good thing but sadly the whole thing has got completely out of hand.

Like I say I feel the relatively close result in the referendum reflects the overall state of affairs. A difficult time for the world in many ways lots of change lots of conflicts and no clear direction seems apparent to anyone.

In my case the biggest factors in me voting out was that I firmly believe the EU is going to fail. As soon as this year if LePen wins the French election, it could be a few years if not. I think there is going to be all manner of unrest and conflict. For me I take the view we are best out of it before that happens.

You mention Greece, and there is an example alone as to why the idea is nuts. Greece is a great place, the Greeks are lovely people and generally easy to get on with. I lived there and some of the best friends I have had have been Greeks. However no matter how much the Greeks individually can hit it off famously with most nationalities you can never ever make their country operate in a way that is compatible with Germany Sweden France and for the EU to be successful that is what you have to do.

I for one dont expect being out of the EU to be the key to wealth and happiness for all, nor will it bring a return of the apparent "good old days". For me leaving was the better of two very unclear futures both littered with dangers. I am far from alone in casting a vote that had been seriously thought about which ever way that vote ultimately went. I think you are wrong in accusing them of being thick or racist. Of course amongst the leave vote there will be people who did vote on account of nonsense, but that is equally true of the remain vote. Plenty who voted remain because Bob Geldof told them too, or Gary Lineker did. Because the thought voting out would mean we would now be a carbon copy of North Korea "Sharon put it on facebook so it must be true".
DonaldGrump

Re: Should we stay or should we go now?

Postby UKTopgun on Sun 09 Apr 2017, 7:37 pm

All valid points Mr Grump and although I don't agree, as I said, that is the beauty of open democracy. I can certainly respect your view as you express it in a reasoned manner and I have no problem with that.
It's the others in the U.K. who in significant number, based a decision on little understanding of the actual issues at stake, in June last year. It is that group I have little time for.
UKTopgun
UKAR Supporter

Re: Should we stay or should we go now?

Postby DonaldGrump on Sun 09 Apr 2017, 9:56 pm

UKTopgun wrote:All valid points Mr Grump and although I don't agree, as I said, that is the beauty of open democracy. I can certainly respect your view as you express it in a reasoned manner and I have no problem with that.
It's the others in the U.K. who in significant number, based a decision on little understanding of the actual issues at stake, in June last year. It is that group I have little time for.


The reality of any election which allows democracy to function as it should do is of course flawed in so much as a fairly large percentage of the electorate will cast a vote without perhaps making the effort to research and form their own opinions. There will be people who will vote Conservative or Labour simply because their Dad, Mum, friends on facebook say so. Certainly by being taken in by complete lies often sadly coming directly from one or the other parties themselves.

The referendum was just the same other than more people bothered to vote and the huge fibs were flowing thick and fast from both sides across all political parties, and indeed from political figures from beyond our own shores. Diffucult one as you cannot resort to some elitist system where only the chosen few can decide for the rest of us, that is actually an aspect of the EU I worry about and think it is guilty of heading toward.

One remain argument I have quite a lot of sympathy with is the view that we perhaps should have hung in and tried to change things from within. Following Mr Camerons failure to get anything whatsoever when he boldly told us he was going to Brussels to set them straight and get us a deal the British public could not refuse said to me that the current set up is beyond change by us remaining to have a say or otherwise.

My own hope is that it fails sooner rather than later and out of its ashes comes a less extreme European Community rather than union that has a much more flexible approach based on bespoke agreements and levels of co-operation between the nations within.

In some respects rather than an isolationist or little Englander I am Brexit voter who is actually very pro European who simply believes that the whole thing needs scrapping and starting again. I believe it has got to a level where the EU threatens democracy and potentially is creating a very dangerous powder keg across the continent.

As for this side of the channel I think one of the biggest threats we face and biggest causes of division is how much debate and thought process has been caused ny the PC brigade throwing racism up at every given opportunity. All that has achieved is infact to create more racism. It has made it difficult for people with real issues to debate them. It has made people more wary of mixing and communicating out of fear of saying the wrong thing. All very sad and not needed.

The racism issue is something that is being shamefully exploited and has long since turned into a gravy train for some and a status statement for even more. These people in my opinion are just as bad as the fools who think everyone a shade darker than deathly white is a paki and paid up member of Isis. I am generally a nosey sod with a very keen interest in where people are from and what its like there, why did they come here? What do they think of it? Had some fantastic conversations over the years and heard some interesting stories as a result of being the way I am. Sadly I believe that fewer and fewer are taking that approach to life now out of fear.

Immigration will only work long term with integration and that is happening less and less. We are in danger of destroying the multicultural aspects of our society and the blame for that lies with those who claim to support it just as much as the minority of extremists that are present in all religions creed and colours who are deserving of being called out for being racist. That as I say is a very small minority across the board....yet even here 52% of the voting public have been given that very label without so much as a moments thought.
DonaldGrump

PreviousNext

Return to Off Topic

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Albion143, f4phixeruk, toom317 and 10 guests