Should we stay or should we go now?

Should the UK leave the EU

Yes
145
56%
No
114
44%
 
Total votes : 259

Re: Should we stay or should we go now?

Postby rdchawk on Mon 10 Apr 2017, 11:37 am

Quite ironic that "beauty of democracy" gets mentioned but there are still all the moaning, whingeing and complaining from those who were on the losing side of the vote.

Vote happened, a result was obtained, just get on with it and see what happens.
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Re: Should we stay or should we go now?

Postby jalfrezi on Mon 10 Apr 2017, 2:58 pm

rdchawk wrote:Quite ironic that "beauty of democracy" gets mentioned but there are still all the moaning, whingeing and complaining from those who were on the losing side of the vote.

Vote happened, a result was obtained, just get on with it and see what happens.


And that is exactly why they are entitled to moan and complain, we live in a free country after all. If the vote had been reversed it would be no different, it would just be the other side moaning and complaining, Nigel Farage said as much if the vote had been reversed.

I agree we need to just get on with it, unfortunately I have as much faith in our Government as I do in the EU, I sense many u-turns and much capitulation ahead of us.
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Re: Should we stay or should we go now?

Postby TKK 140 on Mon 10 Apr 2017, 4:44 pm

jalfrezi wrote:
rdchawk wrote:Quite ironic that "beauty of democracy" gets mentioned but there are still all the moaning, whingeing and complaining from those who were on the losing side of the vote.

Vote happened, a result was obtained, just get on with it and see what happens.


And that is exactly why they are entitled to moan and complain, we live in a free country after all. If the vote had been reversed it would be no different, it would just be the other side moaning and complaining, Nigel Farage said as much if the vote had been reversed.

I agree we need to just get on with it, unfortunately I have as much faith in our Government as I do in the EU, I sense many u-turns and much capitulation ahead of us.


Moan and complain, within reason that's fair enough, but getting on with it is what matters now.
TKK 140

Re: Should we stay or should we go now?

Postby TKK 140 on Mon 10 Apr 2017, 5:17 pm

Tommy wrote:
TKK 140 wrote:What the problem is Tommy is he's one of your and UKAR mods buddies that's why he gets away with similar comments that are just as stupid and offenncive as the twitter feeds he uses to try to score points. A troll. What's worse is the mods appear to protect him. Tell me it's not so. So much for fair and unbiased moderation and enforcement of the rules.
:pinkwafer: :pinkwafer: :pinkwafer:


What the problem is, TKK, is that you're wrong. Completely.

DanO is not a moderator/staff member, he has not been for some years, and I have never been a staff member/moderator at any time whilst DanO was. I don't call DanO a "buddy" because I don't know him and he doesn't know me. Your allegation that the moderators "appear to protect" him is utterly false, but I'm not going to discuss what actions have or have not been taken against him or any member of UKAR for your own sake. UKAR, nor its staff members, should not be divulging private discussions/disciplinary records of any members.

So yes; it's not so. Your above post is wrong in every single respect. You can leave your pink wafers if you like, but I must confess, that I thought you were above this kind of pettiness, TKK. :sad:

Still no condemnation of that poster from amyone, then? I don't want to judge or determine things based on what people do or say, but some here are making it difficult. I still cannot understand how people's priorities are to knock DanO before condemning hate speech is all I'm saying. You know it is perfectly possible to say something like:

"Yeah, a terrible, vile, and poisonous poster, but I disagree with DanO's overall comments about..."

:tumbleweed:



Tommy
No I am not wrong, not totally.
Seeing your post was a watershed, the thought that we all have to condemn an obvious piece of click bait and jump to someone's tune is not going to happen however abhorrent the bait.
It's unfortunate that you jumped to the defence, bearing in mind all the other insults and jibes posted. Not seen any remonstrations over that.

Fact check the UKAR official UKAR contact page for UKAR contacts.
The Twitter post breaks rule 6. Racism and the intention to shock and upset, other posts rule 7.

Anyway, who is "amyone"? :tongue2:
TKK 140

Re: Should we stay or should we go now?

Postby LN Strike Eagle on Mon 10 Apr 2017, 5:55 pm

TKK 140 wrote:Fact check the UKAR official UKAR contact page for UKAR contacts

"The UKAR official UKAR contact page for UKAR contacts" also lists Andrew, Ben, Ian, Koen, Mark, Michael, Peter, Phil, Russ, Steve and Trev too. None of them are staff any more either. Page hasn't been updated. What's your point?
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Re: Should we stay or should we go now?

Postby AlexC on Mon 10 Apr 2017, 6:03 pm

Tommy wrote:Surely all of your priorities, regardless of your opinions on DanO, are firstly to condemn that utterly vile poster put out by Leave.EU?


I seem to have somehow missed that poster, but if it's as 'utterly vile' as you say then of course I would condemn it and those who prepared it and put it out.

And as far as DanO is concerned, I do think that following his return from his self-imposed? exile he could at least have turned over a new leaf and decided to be a bit more amiable then he was in the past.
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Re: Should we stay or should we go now?

Postby UKTopgun on Mon 10 Apr 2017, 6:25 pm

rdchawk wrote:Quite ironic that "beauty of democracy" gets mentioned but there are still all the moaning, whingeing and complaining from those who were on the losing side of the vote.

Vote happened, a result was obtained, just get on with it and see what happens.


I respect the result but do not agree with it. Since when did healthy intelligent discourse by people with polarised views become moaning and complaining?
It is called debate and thankfully we have a country that let's us do it. That was my point re our democracy.
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Re: Should we stay or should we go now?

Postby Brevet Cable on Mon 10 Apr 2017, 6:45 pm

AlexC wrote:I seem to have somehow missed that poster, but if it's as 'utterly vile' as you say then of course I would condemn it and those who prepared it and put it out..


It would appear to have been deleted off their twitter feed ( https://twitter.com/leaveeuofficial )
Unfortunately for them, pretty much everything that's ever been posted on the internet can still be found.
So for those who missed the offending tweet :
Image
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Re: Should we stay or should we go now?

Postby starbuck on Mon 10 Apr 2017, 8:42 pm

Brevet Cable wrote:
AlexC wrote:I seem to have somehow missed that poster, but if it's as 'utterly vile' as you say then of course I would condemn it and those who prepared it and put it out..


It would appear to have been deleted off their twitter feed ( https://twitter.com/leaveeuofficial )
Unfortunately for them, pretty much everything that's ever been posted on the internet can still be found.
So for those who missed the offending tweet :
Image



I haven't commented on here before but have read everyones posts with a mixture of interest, amusement and a fair bit of eye rolling at times. By the end of all the debating name calling and sound biting i wanted to leave but I voted remain because my 16 year old son didn't have a vote and, as others have said on here and elsewhere I realised that the result would have far more impact on his future life than it would on mine so I gave him my vote.

Apart from the tweet coming from an account associated with leaving the EU what does the issue it raises have to do with Brexit? Isn't it more of a case of whether you support the return of the death penalty? And if it is then surely you could argue that an issue like that would have just as much support / abhorrence among leavers and remainers?
starbuck

Re: Should we stay or should we go now?

Postby TKK 140 on Tue 11 Apr 2017, 7:11 am

The purpose is to brand anyone who is on the "now leaving" side as a racist. Clearly untrue and disengenuous.
I understand your reason for voting remain and it is one of the better ones. However why should there be any fear in leaving? In my view it's because the EU commission has become a well heeled club of ex minority heads of states that can't stand to see the gravy train slowing down it needs to cast the illusion it can punish anyone who leaves. Leaving does not mean we do not share some values and on going ties, just not in an overgrown trade body that's got completely out of hand.
TKK 140

Re: Should we stay or should we go now?

Postby AlexC on Tue 11 Apr 2017, 10:43 am

having now seen the poster I can see why it's been called 'utterly vile'. And as I've never supported the death penalty that's no surprise to me.
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Re: Should we stay or should we go now?

Postby Dan O'Hagan on Tue 11 Apr 2017, 10:54 am

The calibre of Brexit voters never ceases to amaze...



You'd not trust someone like that to run a bath, yet we let them decide the most complex decision in the last 70 years.
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Re: Should we stay or should we go now?

Postby AlexC on Tue 11 Apr 2017, 11:10 am

Oh for crying out loud, please give it a rest will you! And anyway you've already bragged on here in 'I'm all right Jack' style that you're paid in Euro's, so what exactly have you got to moan about?
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Re: Should we stay or should we go now?

Postby rdchawk on Tue 11 Apr 2017, 11:21 am

AlexC wrote:Oh for pity's sake please give it a rest will you! And anyway you've already bragged on here in 'I'm all right Jack' style that you're paid in Euro's, so what exactly have you got to moan about?


The Re-Moaners are reminding me of the Simpsons episode where Bart drops the winning catch and they have to replay the game several times until he catches it. They wont be happy until they get one vote where it goes there way.

Happy for democracy but only if its in their favour. I'll repeat what I said earlier - Time to move on, its happened, decision made, process started, nothing is going to change, no need for this hate campaign on BOTH sides to demonstrate who is better or worse. History will tell us if this was a good move or not, whatever happens we just need to deal with it whether its bad or good.
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Re: Should we stay or should we go now?

Postby Brevet Cable on Tue 11 Apr 2017, 11:29 am

starbuck wrote:Apart from the tweet coming from an account associated with leaving the EU what does the issue it raises have to do with Brexit? Isn't it more of a case of whether you support the return of the death penalty? And if it is then surely you could argue that an issue like that would have just as much support / abhorrence among leavers and remainers?

You may want to read the other tweets on their feed ( linked to in my earlier post ) for context, as this organisation was one of those campaigning for BREXIT.
I also note that they appear to be planning to rebrand themselves as 'The Patriotic Alliance'.

Are all those who voted 'Leave' racist ? Of course not.
Did a large number of those who voted 'Leave' do so due to immigration issues ? It would appear from surveys & interviews that the answer is yes.
Was there an emphasis on immigration issues by some 'Leave' campaigners prior to the referendum ? Yes.
Was there - and has there continued to be - a host of anti-immigrant scare stories in a section of the mainstream press ? Yes.

Is being anti-immigrant ( or wanting to control immigration ) racist ? No.....unless you expand on that by classing 'good' immigrants as being white Christians/atheists & 'bad' immigrants as being black/Asian/NAME Muslims, which is what a number of groups & some of the media have done.

Has there been a marked increase in race-/religious related crimes & assaults post-referendum ? Yes.
Did everyone who carried out these attacks vote 'Leave' ? Highly unlikely.
Is this increase in such assaults due to the emphasis on immigration issues by some of the 'Leave' campaigners & pro-Leave media ? In my opinion, yes.
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Re: Should we stay or should we go now?

Postby Brevet Cable on Tue 11 Apr 2017, 11:31 am

rdchawk wrote:The Re-Moaners

Image
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Re: Should we stay or should we go now?

Postby Wissam24 on Tue 11 Apr 2017, 11:31 am

No one is saying Leave didn't win the vote. But, one of the things about living in a democracy, as you so keenly remind us that we do, is tht everyone has the right to speak their views and opinions. Surely, now that we've got our freedom, you should be rejoicing in the freedom we apparently never had before?

Either way, buckle up: you've still got 40+ years of "remoaning" before we're even with all the lies that were spread over the last 40+ - that is to say, pointing out the continual failures, lies and ignorance of Brexit and the Brexiters. If you can't stand to hear how everything you voted for was never true all along, if you can't bear to listen to how badly it's all going, if you really, desperately need the people who call out all the lies and mistakes and remind you that the facts were there all along, and are being proven one by one every day, then maybe democracy isn't for you.
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Re: Should we stay or should we go now?

Postby rdchawk on Tue 11 Apr 2017, 11:36 am

Wissam24 wrote:No one is saying Leave didn't win the vote. But, one of the things about living in a democracy, as you so keenly remind us that we do, is tht everyone has the right to speak their views and opinions. Surely, now that we've got our freedom, you should be rejoicing in the freedom we apparently never had before?

Either way, buckle up: you've still got 40+ years of "remoaning" before we're even with all the lies that were spread over the last 40+ - that is to say, pointing out the continual failures, lies and ignorance of Brexit and the Brexiters. If you can't stand to hear how everything you voted for was never true all along, if you can't bear to listen to how badly it's all going, if you really, desperately need the people who call out all the lies and mistakes and remind you that the facts were there all along, and are being proven one by one every day, then maybe democracy isn't for you.



Clearly democracy is also not for you either as you quite clearly cannot accept the result of the vote.
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Re: Should we stay or should we go now?

Postby cg_341 on Tue 11 Apr 2017, 11:37 am

The thread that just keeps on giving.

Meanwhile, in the real world, both sides are actually getting on with dealing with the fact that we are leaving the EU.
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Re: Should we stay or should we go now?

Postby Wissam24 on Tue 11 Apr 2017, 11:39 am

rdchawk wrote:
Wissam24 wrote:No one is saying Leave didn't win the vote. But, one of the things about living in a democracy, as you so keenly remind us that we do, is tht everyone has the right to speak their views and opinions. Surely, now that we've got our freedom, you should be rejoicing in the freedom we apparently never had before?

Either way, buckle up: you've still got 40+ years of "remoaning" before we're even with all the lies that were spread over the last 40+ - that is to say, pointing out the continual failures, lies and ignorance of Brexit and the Brexiters. If you can't stand to hear how everything you voted for was never true all along, if you can't bear to listen to how badly it's all going, if you really, desperately need the people who call out all the lies and mistakes and remind you that the facts were there all along, and are being proven one by one every day, then maybe democracy isn't for you.



Clearly democracy is also not for you either as you quite clearly cannot accept the result of the vote.


Yep. It's like how, when we have a general election, only one party gets seats in Parliament, all other parties are banned from politics and everyone is banned from criticising the government. It's a well known feature of democracy that only one viewpoint is ever allowed.

If the only argument you can make for your viewpoint is that "if you don't 100% agree and conform with it you don't respect democracy", it's probably time to admit you've made a mistake.

I'm patriotic, I believe in a strong UK - which is why I voted Remain. Since opposing Brexit has been proven to be the only stance that supports a strong and relevant UK, that's why I don't roll over and abide by the result of the vote. I don't want to see the country go down the pan, so I continue to support it. What amazes me is how people are more scared of admitting they've made a mistake than actually helping the country. Stubbornness and cowardice is what will see the UK go from an influential global power to a considerably less relevant country that the major powers in the world pick and choose what they like from, at our expense.

The fact that no one has yet been able to answer Tommy's call for facts says it all. Fear, emotion and lack of thinking rather than any grounding in the real world is what drives the shrinking Leave supporter base now the lies have all been outed.
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Re: Should we stay or should we go now?

Postby DonaldGrump on Tue 11 Apr 2017, 11:52 am

Wissam24 wrote:
rdchawk wrote:
Wissam24 wrote:No one is saying Leave didn't win the vote. But, one of the things about living in a democracy, as you so keenly remind us that we do, is tht everyone has the right to speak their views and opinions. Surely, now that we've got our freedom, you should be rejoicing in the freedom we apparently never had before?

Either way, buckle up: you've still got 40+ years of "remoaning" before we're even with all the lies that were spread over the last 40+ - that is to say, pointing out the continual failures, lies and ignorance of Brexit and the Brexiters. If you can't stand to hear how everything you voted for was never true all along, if you can't bear to listen to how badly it's all going, if you really, desperately need the people who call out all the lies and mistakes and remind you that the facts were there all along, and are being proven one by one every day, then maybe democracy isn't for you.



Clearly democracy is also not for you either as you quite clearly cannot accept the result of the vote.


Yep. It's like how, when we have a general election, only one party gets seats in Parliament, all other parties are banned from politics and everyone is banned from criticising the government. It's a well known feature of democracy that only one viewpoint is ever allowed.

If the only argument you can make for your viewpoint is that "if you don't 100% agree and conform with it you don't respect democracy", it's probably time to admit you've made a mistake.

I'm patriotic, I believe in a strong UK - which is why I voted Remain. Since opposing Brexit has been proven to be the only stance that supports a strong and relevant UK, that's why I don't roll over and abide by the result of the vote. I don't want to see the country go down the pan, so I continue to support it. What amazes me is how people are more scared of admitting they've made a mistake than actually helping the country. Stubbornness and cowardice is what will see the UK go from an influential global power to a considerably less relevant country that the major powers in the world pick and choose what they like from, at our expense.

The fact that no one has yet been able to answer Tommy's call for facts says it all. Fear, emotion and lack of thinking rather than any grounding in the real world is what drives the shrinking Leave supporter base now the lies have all been outed.



Something doesnt quite add up there does it?

You state that you believe in a strong UK? As the EU aims to become one nation you must surely support the ending of the UK. It would just be 4 provinces of a Federal Europe. You cannot claim to support the UK and be a remainer. You might hold the view that we would be better off as part of Europe which is fair enough. Support the UK.....nonsense.
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Re: Should we stay or should we go now?

Postby Russ on Tue 11 Apr 2017, 12:12 pm

AlexC wrote:Oh for crying out loud, please give it a rest will you!

The simple solution is not to click onto this thread. What exactly do you expect? Both Leave and Remain voters will, shock horror, continue to post their respective opinions on a Brexit thread.

It's not rocket science is it? :facepalm:
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Re: Should we stay or should we go now?

Postby TKK 140 on Tue 11 Apr 2017, 12:54 pm

AlexC wrote:Oh for crying out loud, please give it a rest will you! And anyway you've already bragged on here in 'I'm all right Jack' style that you're paid in Euro's, so what exactly have you got to moan about?


That'd be nice!
TKK 140

Re: Should we stay or should we go now?

Postby TKK 140 on Tue 11 Apr 2017, 1:20 pm

Brevet Cable wrote:
starbuck wrote:Apart from the tweet coming from an account associated with leaving the EU what does the issue it raises have to do with Brexit? Isn't it more of a case of whether you support the return of the death penalty? And if it is then surely you could argue that an issue like that would have just as much support / abhorrence among leavers and remainers?

You may want to read the other tweets on their feed ( linked to in my earlier post ) for context, as this organisation was one of those campaigning for BREXIT.
I also note that they appear to be planning to rebrand themselves as 'The Patriotic Alliance'.

Are all those who voted 'Leave' racist ? Of course not.
Did a large number of those who voted 'Leave' do so due to immigration issues ? It would appear from surveys & interviews that the answer is yes.
Was there an emphasis on immigration issues by some 'Leave' campaigners prior to the referendum ? Yes.
Was there - and has there continued to be - a host of anti-immigrant scare stories in a section of the mainstream press ? Yes.

Is being anti-immigrant ( or wanting to control immigration ) racist ? No.....unless you expand on that by classing 'good' immigrants as being white Christians/atheists & 'bad' immigrants as being black/Asian/NAME Muslims, which is what a number of groups & some of the media have done.

Has there been a marked increase in race-/religious related crimes & assaults post-referendum ? Yes.
Did everyone who carried out these attacks vote 'Leave' ? Highly unlikely.
Is this increase in such assaults due to the emphasis on immigration issues by some of the 'Leave' campaigners & pro-Leave media ? In my opinion, yes.


Balanced view, except I know of at least one pro remainder who has prejudice.
Remember the Stephen Lawrence murder and subsequent case his parents had to suffer. ? It had nothing to do with being in the EU or Brexit. But if it something similar happened today you'd be saying it was.

The recent attacks are deplorable but for shame blaming them on the majority of decent and very clever leave voters.
TKK 140

Re: Should we stay or should we go now?

Postby AlexC on Tue 11 Apr 2017, 2:34 pm

Russ wrote:The simple solution is not to click onto this thread.


I'll give your suggestion serious consideration, and then probably disregard it! :tongue2:
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