Should we stay or should we go now?

Should the UK leave the EU

Yes
145
56%
No
114
44%
 
Total votes : 259

Re: Should we stay or should we go now?

Postby UKTopgun on Tue 11 Apr 2017, 6:42 pm

TKK, please don't take this the wrong way but with all due respect, I can't understand any of your posts on this thread. Is it just me?
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Re: Should we stay or should we go now?

Postby TKK 140 on Tue 11 Apr 2017, 9:21 pm

Standard and Poor potential to down grade EU credit status is revealed.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04 ... it-rating/
Interesting in that should this occur the EU's cost for credit will rise. Sooner that the UK and EU's symbiotic relationship is recognised the sooner we can all move on.
TKK 140

Re: Should we stay or should we go now?

Postby Brevet Cable on Wed 12 Apr 2017, 5:46 am

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Re: Should we stay or should we go now?

Postby jalfrezi on Wed 12 Apr 2017, 9:09 am

UKTopgun wrote:TKK, please don't take this the wrong way but with all due respect, I can't understand any of your posts on this thread. Is it just me?


Nope.
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Re: Should we stay or should we go now?

Postby john001 on Wed 12 Apr 2017, 9:24 am

TKK 140 wrote:Standard and Poor potential to down grade EU credit status is revealed.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04 ... it-rating/
Interesting in that should this occur the EU's cost for credit will rise. Sooner that the UK and EU's symbiotic relationship is recognised the sooner we can all move on.


So will the 'divorce' settlement then I guess ....
john001

Re: Should we stay or should we go now?

Postby TKK 140 on Thu 13 Apr 2017, 7:11 am

Good news on the economy, still not tanked by now, as widely predicted. British business is experiencing growth as the recovery progresses. Although there may be some choppy waters to navigate it's plain sailing at the moment.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/201 ... akes-hold/
TKK 140

Re: Should we stay or should we go now?

Postby Dan O'Hagan on Thu 13 Apr 2017, 7:32 am

TKK 140 wrote:Good news on the economy, still not tanked by now, as widely predicted. British business is experiencing growth as the recovery progresses. Although there may be some choppy waters to navigate it's plain sailing at the moment.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/201 ... akes-hold/


Which part of "we've not left yet" don't you understand?
Dan O'Hagan

Re: Should we stay or should we go now?

Postby Brevet Cable on Thu 13 Apr 2017, 8:01 am

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-39582627
UK firms want to recruit more workers but cannot find or afford the right staff, a survey has found.

The British Chambers of Commerce (BCC) spoke to 7,300 businesses in the manufacturing and services sectors, and found the percentage seeking to hire had grown by up to 9% in the last quarter.
But most also experienced "high levels of recruitment difficulties" which the BCC said was a risk to growth.
(snip)
But he also said that the rising cost of imported raw materials, resulting from the weakness of the pound since the Brexit vote, had squeezed business spending.

"Another emerging issue is whether firms can continue to get workers from overseas both in the run-up to, and after, Brexit," he added. "Industries like hospitality and construction are heavily dependent on EU workers."


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39576112
EU migrants make up more than one in 10 manufacturing sector workers in the UK, official figures have shown.
The Office for National Statistics (ONS) also said EU workers from outside the UK tended to work longer hours than the workforce average.
And it said non-UK workers were more likely to be overqualified for the jobs they were doing.

The government is planning to change the way migration is managed after Britain leaves the EU.
It has not yet set out the model it will adopt once EU free movement rules no longer apply, but has pledged that the "brightest and best" will continue to be attracted to the UK.

In a report, the ONS said that last year an estimated 3.4 million workers, amounting to 11% of the entire UK labour market, were foreign nationals.
This number was made up of about 2.2 million EU nationals (7%) and 1.2 million non-EU nationals (4%).

The report also said:

One in seven workers (14%) in the wholesale and retail trade, hotels and restaurants sector was an international migrant, with more than half a million coming from the EU
Workers from the EU made up 11% of the manufacturing sector
One in eight (12%) in the UK's financial and business services sector were foreign nationals, including 382,000 from the EU
About 61% of workers from Bulgaria and Romania worked more than 40 hours a week, compared with about 32% of British workers
Almost 40% of non-UK workers were in jobs they were deemed to be over-educated for - this figure was 15% for UK nationals


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-39537726
Ford will be in the UK for "quite some time" despite concerns about the impact of the Brexit vote, the company's chief executive has said.

However, Mark Fields told the BBC he could not guarantee manufacturing would stay once Britain leaves the EU.
He repeated Ford's position that a free trade agreement needs to be reached with the European Union.
(snip)
Mr Fields said: "We need to make sure that all of our facilities around the world are globally competitive.

"We are very proud to be in the UK and we are going to be in the UK for quite some time but it's going to be really important, particularly because Article 50 is now triggered, that from our standpoint there needs to be free trade between the UK and the continent."

Asked if Ford would keep manufacturing in the UK he said: "I can't guarantee anything, nobody can guarantee anything over many many years."

Industry trade body the Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders said in January that uncertainty around Brexit and the UK's future trading arrangements had hit investment in the car sector.

Although Toyota has announced new investment, the Japanese car giant said "continued tariff-and-barrier free market access between the UK and Europe... will be vital for future success".
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Re: Should we stay or should we go now?

Postby TKK 140 on Thu 13 Apr 2017, 1:08 pm

Yes BC, all very good cutting and pasting but what's your view of business conditions.
I have asked several times for some actual real world feedback on this without one single reply. I must conclude therefore that it's with held or not known.
I have also asked for what has changed economically since we decided to leave for individuals here on this forum. Same no answer.
The latest news is good for all. Of course it was predicted that we'd be in a much worse financial situation by now. That was possible, but unlikely.
TKK 140

Re: Should we stay or should we go now?

Postby pbeardmore on Thu 13 Apr 2017, 1:58 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... -chain-tax

This is a perfect example of Brexit being made a scape goat. The trading figures for their financial year only have a 3 month cross over with the Brexit vote plus other chains are doing OK but look how much coverage Brexit gets within the article (re-enforced by being in the Guardain who are happy to go with any anti Brexit story)
“The best computer is a man, and it’s the only one that can be mass-produced by unskilled labour.”
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Re: Should we stay or should we go now?

Postby Brevet Cable on Thu 13 Apr 2017, 2:41 pm

And as has been pointed out a number of times by various people ( most recently by DanO' ) we haven't left yet....in fact, the negotiations haven't even started properly.
As I've posted before.....
The foreign nationals ( all from EU Countries ) who work as cleaners where I'm currently working are worried about what will happen post BREXIT given the dearth of information.
The companies who employ them can't get any local ( British ) people to do the work because of it's nature -- as with most contract cleaning jobs, each premises only has them there for a couple of hours per day & it's unsocial hours ( start around 03:00 to 04:00, finish around 05:00 to 07:00 )

Nissan only agreed to their new investment after receiving a bung from HMG & a promise that trade won't be affected.
Toyota received the same promise, but no bung.
Like Ford ( and a lot of other companies ) they're still waiting to see what actually happens & they'll have no problem pulling the plug if the right trade agreement isn't reached.
You could call it unsubstantiated rumours, but people I know who work at the Bridgend Ford plant have already been warned by their Unions that their jobs still aren't secure.
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Re: Should we stay or should we go now?

Postby starbuck on Thu 13 Apr 2017, 2:59 pm

Brevet Cable wrote:And as has been pointed out a number of times by various people ( most recently by DanO' ) we haven't left yet....in fact, the negotiations haven't even started properly.
As I've posted before.....
The foreign nationals ( all from EU Countries ) who work as cleaners where I'm currently working are worried about what will happen post BREXIT given the dearth of information.
The companies who employ them can't get any local ( British ) people to do the work because of it's nature -- as with most contract cleaning jobs, each premises only has them there for a couple of hours per day & it's unsocial hours ( start around 03:00 to 04:00, finish around 05:00 to 07:00 )

That doesn't make any sense. surely if its unsociable hours (which cleaning work has always been) it doesn't matter what your first language is. The real reason must be that they can't get British people to do it for the wages they are offering.

Nissan only agreed to their new investment after receiving a bung from HMG & a promise that trade won't be affected.
Toyota received the same promise, but no bung.
Like Ford ( and a lot of other companies ) they're still waiting to see what actually happens & they'll have no problem pulling the plug if the right trade agreement isn't reached.
You could call it unsubstantiated rumours, but people I know who work at the Bridgend Ford plant have already been warned by their Unions that their jobs still aren't secure.


Does anybody feel they are in a secure job anymore? especially post crash?
Last edited by starbuck on Thu 13 Apr 2017, 3:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Should we stay or should we go now?

Postby Brevet Cable on Thu 13 Apr 2017, 3:02 pm

They did up until the referendum.
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Re: Should we stay or should we go now?

Postby starbuck on Thu 13 Apr 2017, 3:06 pm

What guarantees did they have before the referendum that have now been taken away?
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Re: Should we stay or should we go now?

Postby Brevet Cable on Thu 13 Apr 2017, 3:39 pm

Again, nothing has been 'taken away' yet as we're still a member of the EU & the exit negotiations have yet to commence in earnest.
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Re: Should we stay or should we go now?

Postby starbuck on Thu 13 Apr 2017, 5:02 pm

Sorry, I didn't word my question very well. I was trying to find out what guarantees the workers were given with regards to their job security before the referendum.
starbuck

Re: Should we stay or should we go now?

Postby TKK 140 on Thu 13 Apr 2017, 5:40 pm

Obviously none, no one in the private sector has any guarantees at all. Manufacturing plants have always been subject to changes in product cycles and demand.
It seems to be completely forgotten that Ford ceased production of cars in the U.K. in 2002. Dagenham may well have problems as the backlash against diesels could see the 350K engine units a year and the £475M investment at risk.
If the worst happens, and I sincerely hope it does not, these skilled and semi workers are in very short supply in the U.K, they will have no trouble finding alternatives.

Picking one factory and using that as evidence is not proof of a trend or fact. The trade figures yesterday were, the fact that the stay campaign said the world would end after last June have been proven absolutely wrong.

Generally the economy is growing and that brings new business, opportunities and hope.
TKK 140

Re: Should we stay or should we go now?

Postby Dan O'Hagan on Thu 13 Apr 2017, 6:22 pm

TKK 140 wrote:Obviously none, no one in the private sector has any guarantees at all. Manufacturing plants have always been subject to changes in product cycles and demand.
It seems to be completely forgotten that Ford ceased production of cars in the U.K. in 2002. Dagenham may well have problems as the backlash against diesels could see the 350K engine units a year and the £475M investment at risk.
If the worst happens, and I sincerely hope it does not, these skilled and semi workers are in very short supply in the U.K, they will have no trouble finding alternatives.

Picking one factory and using that as evidence is not proof of a trend or fact. The trade figures yesterday were, the fact that the stay campaign said the world would end after last June have been proven absolutely wrong.

Generally the economy is growing and that brings new business, opportunities and hope.


But. We. Haven't. Left. Yet.

Are you unable to grasp that?
Dan O'Hagan

Re: Should we stay or should we go now?

Postby Brevet Cable on Thu 13 Apr 2017, 6:25 pm

The 'guarantee' with regards the foreign workers was that under EU rules they were entitled to come and work here unhindered, just as British nationals were entitled to do in other EU countries.
As it stands now, unless May reaches an agreement with the EU as part of the exit negotiations, the foreign nationals face the potential of not being allowed to continue working here, with the same being true for UK nationals working in other EU countries.

One company ?
Ford, Nissan, Toyota -- that's 3 for starters, and you can throw in any number of other companies who only operate in the UK because we're part of the EU ( the likes of Tata & Liberty aren't producing steel here out of the goodness of their own hearts, for example ) & because many of them received EU grants to locate here.
Yes, they could have moved to some of the newer EU member countries, but they haven't, in a large part because they prefer to spread their manufacturing plants around.
If the economics mean that it benefits them to relocate, though, they will.
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Re: Should we stay or should we go now?

Postby starbuck on Thu 13 Apr 2017, 6:40 pm

BC - you may well be right, I don't know enough about those companies to comment. On another point, what's the difference bewteen an EU 'grant' and a May 'bung'?
starbuck

Re: Should we stay or should we go now?

Postby TKK 140 on Thu 13 Apr 2017, 6:44 pm

Dan O'Hagan wrote:
TKK 140 wrote:Obviously none, no one in the private sector has any guarantees at all. Manufacturing plants have always been subject to changes in product cycles and demand.
It seems to be completely forgotten that Ford ceased production of cars in the U.K. in 2002. Dagenham may well have problems as the backlash against diesels could see the 350K engine units a year and the £475M investment at risk.
If the worst happens, and I sincerely hope it does not, these skilled and semi workers are in very short supply in the U.K, they will have no trouble finding alternatives.

Picking one factory and using that as evidence is not proof of a trend or fact. The trade figures yesterday were, the fact that the stay campaign said the world would end after last June have been proven absolutely wrong.

Generally the economy is growing and that brings new business, opportunities and hope.


But. We. Haven't. Left. Yet.

Are you unable to grasp that?



:pinkwafer: :pinkwafer: :pinkwafer:
TKK 140

Re: Should we stay or should we go now?

Postby Brevet Cable on Thu 13 Apr 2017, 7:03 pm

starbuck wrote:what's the difference bewteen an EU 'grant' and a May 'bung'?

The EU grants were ( still are, until we leave the EU ) a scheme which companies could apply for to either set up or expand/upgrade their facility within the EU, particularly if that facility was in a 'deprived area' ( South Wales Valleys, Yorkshire, etc. ) and had various strings attached.

May's bung was a bit of political chicanery to 'persuade' Nissan not to relocate, and the jury's still out as to whether it was within the rules ( yes, it happens in other EU countries as well, which is likely why the issue wasn't pushed )
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Re: Should we stay or should we go now?

Postby TKK 140 on Thu 13 Apr 2017, 7:09 pm

Brevet Cable wrote:
starbuck wrote:what's the difference bewteen an EU 'grant' and a May 'bung'?

The EU grants were ( still are, until we leave the EU ) a scheme which companies could apply for to either set up or expand/upgrade their facility within the EU, particularly if that facility was in a 'deprived area' ( South Wales Valleys, Yorkshire, etc. ) and had various strings attached.

May's bung was a bit of political chicanery to 'persuade' Nissan not to relocate, and the jury's still out as to whether it was within the rules ( yes, it happens in other EU countries as well, which is likely why the issue wasn't pushed )


Fair assessment, the EU usually goes after those it thinks are conditioned to following the rules and therefore likely to cough up.
TKK 140

Re: Should we stay or should we go now?

Postby Brevet Cable on Thu 13 Apr 2017, 7:32 pm

Off the top of my head I can think of about half a dozen in my area which didn't.


And if anyone's interested, BBC Radio 4's 'In Business' ( just starting ) is about how companies in NI are dealing with BREXIT

Edited 'cos I put 'Radio 5'.....it should have been Radio 4 :facepalm:
Last edited by Brevet Cable on Thu 13 Apr 2017, 8:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Should we stay or should we go now?

Postby TKK 140 on Thu 13 Apr 2017, 7:49 pm

The consequences of the EU and President Hollande

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/201 ... ms-france/

Apologies you'll need premium to read the whole article but you can get the drift from the teaser of the rise of extreme right and left wing politics.
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