Star Wars thread. Spoilers within.

Star Wars thread. Spoilers within.

Postby Wissam24 on Thu 14 Dec 2017, 4:17 pm

Last Jedi is pretty great. Not perfect. Don't think it's as good as the critics claimed, but could've been with some changes.

Some outstanding scenes, chief among them the one with Yoda. That was as close to OT quality as they've got so far. Mark Hamill was brilliant.

3 main gripes:

1. Again with the relentless pisspoor gags in every scene. Just let it be serious without throwing in one dumb gag at least once.

2. What a waste Snoke turned out to be. Mysterious overlord who's constructed this huge evil organisation and is powerful with the force? Let's just kill him without a single word of backstory then. A particular shame as Serkis was brilliant

3. The entire Finn and Rose arc was totally, utterly pointless. They literally achieved nothing, plot wise, and it made so little sense to have this fleet chase thing then "oh let's just pop off on a jolly, somehow". It served so little purpose that it soured the rest of the film for me, in all honesty.

A minor gripe: Can someone please teach Disney directors how space works. Even in the fast and loose space physics of Star Wars it should be pretty obvious that there's no "down" in space
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Postby Brevet Cable on Thu 14 Dec 2017, 4:58 pm

IMDB reviews aren't exactly complimentary about it, that I've seen.

Back to J.J.A. as writer & director for the next one ?
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Postby Wissam24 on Thu 14 Dec 2017, 5:01 pm

I don't think he's better, to be honest. This one was definitely better than TFA
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Postby Brevet Cable on Thu 14 Dec 2017, 5:12 pm

He's not brilliant, but he tends to be pretty solid.

Just did a quick google, apparently he will be doing the next one, along with Chris Terrio.

Oh, and whilst there are a number of characters I'd like to see killed off, I hope they didn't kill the Cylon !
( What... you mean Captain Phasma's not a Cylon... :lol: )
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Postby Big_Gareth on Thu 14 Dec 2017, 7:33 pm

Pretty much, spot on Wissam:

Adored much of the film, Rey, Kylo Ren, Poe, Luke, Leia excellent, everything that I wanted to see and more, suprisingly good acting, interesting storytelling, didn't feel too much like a rehash of previous movies and brought back all of the fond childhood memories that only Star Wars can deliver. I enjoyed the new direction that the director is trying to steer us towards. BUT honestly the casino section and the Finn storyline was truly terrible, ruined the film for me and I will look forward to seeing some of the fan edits of this movie which will hopefully cut most of that arc out.

Other musings:

Agree that the lack of Snoke back story damaged the story
Benicio Del Toro what a waste
Far too much "dumb" humour
Leia Superman impression, oh dear
Luke milking an udder, can never be unseen!
Yoda CGI/puppet was really bad
Disappointend that Hamill seemingly won't have a big role to play in the next episode

I'm not sure whether I enjoyed TFA more or not? I think the initial faults here are more glaring but it's probably a better film overall
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Postby toom317 on Thu 14 Dec 2017, 8:16 pm

Quite enjoyed it, way better than TFA. Again my main gripe was all the twee stuff. That scene with Chewbacca trying to eat those birds was totally pointless, and I suspect those penguin/puffin styled birds are another sales pitch for toys. It was interesting to guess which character(s) were going to get killed off. Nice to see Laura Dern in there as well, and Benicio Del Toro. His part was a bit crap, but I suspect he may play some part in the next movie.
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Postby Seamus on Fri 15 Dec 2017, 10:41 am

I absolutely loved it. After the phenomenal opening scene, the pace slowed, and it went all 'Dagobah', but soon picked up, escalating to a phenomenal conclusion. Lovely touch with R2 playing the old Leia hologram, and I thought it worked better keeping Yoda (!) as a puppet. Some questions answered (I think?!), some not, and plenty of new ones to keep us going until Episode IX. Going again tomorrow to try and make more sense of it as there was a lot going on!

I can tolerate the Porgs, casino scene and one liners as they've always been a part of the films. Of course much of it exists purely to sell merchandies, but it wouldn't really be Star Wars without them. My only real gripe with the film was Leia surviving the bridge being annihilated- was a bit too Hollywood- but otherwise it was pretty much spot on for this fan boy :clap:
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Postby Wissam24 on Fri 15 Dec 2017, 1:46 pm

That Leia moment was very, very much the low point of the movie for me.
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Postby AndyXH558 on Fri 15 Dec 2017, 5:10 pm

to me most of it was unexpected, for one there was a heck of a surprise what happened to snoke but some how i think that is not the last we will hear of him, I've got a suspicion that his backstory will be in episode 9.

Canto bight, went very quickly and there was a hell of a lot more footage filmed, for one you saw the posh limo speeders in a lot more detail, most were styled like 1950s and 1960s ferraris, jaguars and things like that. We filmed our arrival and then the aftermath of the stampede of the space horses, rose and fins one was called Dobbin. To me they didn't utillise all the aliens that they had at the casino, including something that looked like half a man built on a medical droid, if you saw the one of the making of the film you would have seen 4 small green smiling reptilians in tuxedos, That was Warwick Davis and his family.

Mark Hamill came on set the second day in. He stayed for a couple of hours just talking to everyone, he is a lovely guy who has such a passion for the films saga. We also had a co star, look out for Carrie Fishers dog!

our locations were the 007 stage for the interior shots of canto bight and Longcross studios for the exterior shots, the chase scenes in that were filmed in Dubrovnik. all filmed between march and april 2016. the days were very long, started at 6am getting costume on then straight to make up and hair. We usually wrapped about 10pm, however the Longcross scenes started at 2pm and finished at 4am. it was absolutely freezing.

Something that i will always remember with a smile knowing i was part of the star wars universe.

As for the film, I really enjoyed it, Thought some of the gags were pretty funny. did anyone notice that the boy at the end wasnt holding the broom when sweeping up....
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Postby Red Dragon on Fri 15 Dec 2017, 8:45 pm

Just come back from the cinema, and it was very much a mixed bag for me......

BAD
1- Snoke, an utter waste of a very promising villain, (As mentioned he could have been the basis of an excellent back story of Ren's rise to prominence. However it was an excellent surprise to see him dying though. I was expecting Hux to be killed off).
2- The whole sequence on Ahch-To was far too long, it could have easily been trimmed and lost a good 20 minutes or so without loosing the thread of the story.
3- So how are they going to explain Leia's absence now in episode 9?
4- The whole horse riding sequence left me glancing at my watch.
5- Wasted fight sequence between Finn and Phasma (could have been so much more)
6- The "humour" inserted into sequences

GOOD
1- The character of Snoke was looking so promising
2- The fight in Snoke's throne room was excellent to see as the director using long shots not tight close ups.
3- Nice tactic of making you think that Vice Admiral Holdo's motives so vague to make you think she is a traitor, until near the end (to be the movies sacrificial character)
4- The opening space battle effects

I realised on my way home...
Han Solo Dead........./ Harrison Ford Alive
Luke Skywalker Dead/ Mark Hamill Alive
Princess Leia Alive..../ Carrie Fisher Dead

In my opinion it was enjoyable, but I still think of the three "new" movies, TFA, R1 and TLJ that Rogue One is still the best.

Roll on towards
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Star Wars: Episode IX, due December 20, 2019
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Postby Wissam24 on Fri 15 Dec 2017, 10:51 pm

I honestly found the treatment of Snoke a pretty insultingly bad piece of writing. It's just diabolical to set up such a villain and then cut it out with no word of backstory.

But it was made all the worse by the fact that Serkis was unbelievably good. Just the most amount of potential wasted.
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Postby Paul_Reflex on Sat 16 Dec 2017, 8:36 am

I don't disagree with many of the criticisms expressed here, but for me the downsides didn't really detract from a movie with plenty of high quality scenes. I loved that Snoke's identity and back story wasn't important and even more so that Rey's parents were nobodies.

Adam Driver was even better than he was in TFA, great fight scene with Snoke's guards too. I also really loved the Yoda scene, back to his slightly unhinged ESB debut.
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Postby Agg on Sat 16 Dec 2017, 10:27 pm

Just got home from watching it and I have to say that I haven't been this disappointed in a movie for quite some time. While it's not the worst Star Wars movie, the prequals have got that covered, it certainly is a worthy contender. Having seen all these "Top 10 WTF moments in the Last Jedi" and "The ending of the Last Jedi Explained" videos popping up on YouTube over the past week I really thought this was going to be something special, but I can't remember a single twist in the entire movie, it was all quite straight forward and predictable.

I've been hearing all this "While "the Force Awakens" was very similar to "A New Hope", "the Last Jedi" is certainly not another "the Empire Strikes Back" - really?! It certainly seems like they used the same script. The young Jedi goes off to a distant planet to meet a quirky Jedi master, who in the end passes away. After some soul searching and some weird dreamish sequences the young Jedi finds his/her place in the universe and finds out that they are destined for something great. There's even a Walker assault on a rebel base, except this time it's not a planet covered by snow, but one covered by salt. I was almost expecting Kylo Ren to say "I'am your father" when he was talking to Rey about her parents...

Add to that the complete pointlessness of Snoke, that aweful flying scene with Leia, Finn and Rose's pointless quest and the sprinkling of new cute creatures with no other purpose than to sell toys and the whole movie is a complete mess.

There were of course some nice action sequences, but right now I'm just too disappointed to say anything nice at all about "the Last Jedi" :P
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Postby Spiny Norman on Sun 17 Dec 2017, 7:30 pm

As with the Force Awakens, the best bits involved the vehicles and characters of the original three movies.

This time the reveal of Skywalker sitting on the rock was superb. And that walk out of the red salt cloud was also great. Great entertainment all round.

The big minus for me is the strange casting decisions. Ade Edmondson? Finchy from The Office? And I think I saw the daft toff Will from W1A!
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Postby Brevet Cable on Sun 17 Dec 2017, 8:03 pm

You wouldn't have seen the Buck Housers, though.....after all the publicity they gave it, Harry & Will's scenes were apparently cut :lol:
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Postby toom317 on Mon 18 Dec 2017, 5:01 pm

Agg wrote: I was almost expecting Kylo Ren to say "I'am your father" when he was talking to Rey about her parents...


Must admit while that scene was building up, I thought he was going to say they were Brother and Sister.

Another thing I found frustrating, was the nice pace that the film was moving along at, only to grind to a halt whenever Reys scenes came on. I think I'll be using the "next chapter" button a lot when the DVD comes out.
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Postby vandal on Tue 19 Dec 2017, 1:49 am

Brevet Cable wrote:
Oh, and whilst there are a number of characters I'd like to see killed off, I hope they didn't kill the Cylon !
( What... you mean Captain Phasma's not a Cylon... :lol: )


Somehow, in TFA, she survived the obliteration of the Starkiller Base, so falling off a platform into all those flames might not have sealed her fate. :grin:

In a film where Poe single handed, wiped out all the surface defences on one almighty big ship, including that 'handbrake turn' he executed in the process, BB-8 somehow managed to take control of what looked like an AT-ST, and Leia floating back to her ship after the Bridge was destroyed, who knows?

All in all, we enjoyed it for the escapism it was, but opportunities have been missed regarding the characters central to the saga at this point. Been mentioned, and I agree, Snoke's untimely demise wasn't a good move. He was certainly powerful with the Force, and Luke did mention to Rey that during his Jedi training days when he (Luke) appeared over Ben / Kylo when he was sleeping and read his mind, he was well aware of Snoke's influence over him, so when did Snoke come into all of this? Was / is he Darth Plageus? :grin:

Rey - why did Luke's Lightsaber 'call out to her' in TFA? This was never even addressed. They had the perfect opportunity when Luke asked why she was really here. I expected her to at least mention the visions she had when she first picked the thing up.

Getting back to the opening scene with the Dreadnaught, all the Resistance ships appeared from lightspeed. The Bombers that arrived with them practically crawled toward their target. Why???

Kylo - can't take him seriously at all. In Ep 1, both Qui Gon Jin and Obi Wan had a battle facing down Darth Maul. Ep 2 saw Count Dooku lay waste to a young Anakin, Obi Wan and then hold his own against Yoda in one encounter. Maul and Dooku, baddies you could believe in. Kylo, in comparison got his butt handed to him the first time he faced Rey. How were we supposed to believe he would be the one to end the Jedi?
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Postby toom317 on Tue 19 Dec 2017, 9:47 am

Kylo= Vader light
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Postby Brevet Cable on Thu 21 Dec 2017, 1:53 pm

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Postby Wissam24 on Thu 21 Dec 2017, 2:33 pm

See, I don't care about the franchise going off in a new direction or anything like that - it makes me laugh when I see people defending the film saying "Oh you just don't get the direction they took it in." The problem is that they did it really, really badly. It was just very badly written, tonally unsure of itself at any moment and quite a lot of thing shoehorned in. It was a film written by committee. Take Star Wars in a new direction, sure, I love that idea - look at Rogue One and all the characters dying. That was very bold for Star Wars. But it did it was a well structured plot and a certainty about itself that was utterly lacking from this movie. That said, I'm also not entirely sure it really is as radical a departure as some people seem to think it is.
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Postby Brevet Cable on Thu 21 Dec 2017, 5:01 pm

One thing I don't get.....
Snoke's supposed to be the ultimate badass dark side Jedi ?
At the end of R-1, Vader munched his way through the Rebels like they weren't even there.
Yet Snoke gets offed effortlessly by 'Lord Dark Helmet'
:dizzy:
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Postby pbeardmore on Fri 22 Dec 2017, 9:27 pm

A good movie is more than just a set of good scenes. TLJ does have some great scenes but the story is really really poor and the more you look back and consider other people's observations, the more you realise that the story is a real mess.

TFA, for its faults, set up some interesting questions which TLJ seems to just ignore. As a Bond and SW fan, I feel just as I did after seeing Spectre. With all that talent both behind and in front of the camera, such a waste to have a poor story that is too clever and complex for its own good.

I can only hope that Kasden can bring the TESB magic back with Solo in May. The series needs a lighter touch and after watching Raiders this afternoon (also Kasden), it struck me that what we need is "Indiana Jones in Space" - a good old fashioned fast paced adventure in under 2 hours.

PS Brevet is right, as I sit on the sofa now, if a light sabre started rattling and moving on its own whilst sitting on the coffee table , I would notice. And I'm just a normal bloke. By having Snoke killed so easily, it undermined the character, and therefore, one of the main building blocks on the story.
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Postby Big_Gareth on Sat 23 Dec 2017, 2:20 am

Ouch... comparing it to Spectre is really harsh IMO. :wall: Spectre was a big steaming pile of muck and a complete waste of 2 hours, Bond by numbers, a lazier film you will never see! I honestly can't remember a single moment from Spectre that I would enjoy watching again. Despite its faults TLJ had some real surprise moments and genuine big thrills and I personally don't think the story was a real mess at all.

In a time when script writers and directors of our most beloved TV shows and film franchises, force plot lines on us that are dumbed down and downright stupid, with action sequences inserted and strung together on the flimsiest of plot threads... I thought it was really refreshing that we were given a story where the lead characters made choices that were true to themselves and the plot moved along according to the character's motives and personalities. Rian Johnson had 5 or 6 key characters to "service" and the arcs of Luke, Rey and Ren were very well handled. Leia and Poe's arcs weren't far off, it was only the Finn storyline that was rubbish and even then the character still stayed true to himself. The sequel trilogy has very much given people a new group of characters to care about and in a film that spans just a couple of days the character development for Luke, Rey and Ren from start to finish is significant. Yes the lack of Snoke backstory was annoying, all it would have taken is a 30 second flashback from Luke but his death was a great surprise and lead to a couple of wonderful scenes between Ren and Rey afterwards.

Unfortunately we also live in a time when fans of these films and shows spend a disproportionate amount of time theorizing and analyzing every aspect and every second of footage. Andy Serkis was on record numerous times saying that Snoke was a new character and that we wouldn't find much out about him, yet the online theories about his past continued. The same fans then get upset and disappointed when the actual story doesn't live up to their own fan theories/ideas. I find it ridiculous that people will give the film one or two star reviews because some story arcs didn't live up to "their own good ideas" posted on sites like Reddit.
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Postby vandal on Sat 23 Dec 2017, 7:57 pm

Big_Gareth wrote:Unfortunately we also live in a time when fans of these films and shows spend a disproportionate amount of time theorizing and analyzing every aspect and every second of footage. Andy Serkis was on record numerous times saying that Snoke was a new character and that we wouldn't find much out about him, yet the online theories about his past continued. The same fans then get upset and disappointed when the actual story doesn't live up to their own fan theories/ideas. I find it ridiculous that people will give the film one or two star reviews because some story arcs didn't live up to "their own good ideas" posted on sites like Reddit.


Fin is the child of Lando Calrissian anyone? :grin: :question:
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Postby Craig on Sat 23 Dec 2017, 9:36 pm

I'll be honest the level of hatred of this film baffles me. Not everything worked. Finn's character story was effectively pointless. The Leia scene was ludicrous, but yet it was a very entertaining film. No it's not like the original trilogy, nor could or should it be. But it had the nods to it. The cameo from Yoda was brilliant, and I thought the humour by and large worked pretty well.

It's never going to please everyone but I thought this far better than The Force Awakens and while the plot wasn't perfect it was nowhere near as hole filled as that.
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