This made it's way to the BBC springwatch FB page.

Re: This made it's way to the BBC springwatch FB page.

Postby st24 on Thu 15 Feb 2018, 10:56 am

boff180 wrote:Rooks don't just eat inspects, they eat cereal crops too - it's part of their primary diet and - particularly in planting season - damage crops particularly when they feed in large groups near Rookeries. Spring crops appear to be hit the worst to the point farmers look for proactive means to protect their fields, not just hunting to keep numbers down.


:grin: yes that big, pointed stabbing beak is ideal for picking up grain and dry seeds.. :roll: what a load of pap. Defra are just a puppet of the government to support their huge sponsors - farmers, hunts, basc, countryside alliance etc to allow them to blast anything that moves under the subterfuge of "conserving wildlife". Follow my twitter retweets highlighting the hideous barbarism they sponsor - see the photos of huge numbers of shot, dumped wildfowl and game that are merely shot for "sport" and have no intention of feeding anyone as, apparently, eating game is "huge business" utter crap. Also see the defra supported pheasant farms that are reminiscent of battery hens but at least they provide us with meat and eggs. Game does nothing other than allow a few hooray Henrys and Henrietas to wear their best tweeds and congratulate each other on how masterful they are over these defenceless sentient creatures.

2 Superb posts from someone who knows what they're talking about Mr C, offering truth to the Government spouted lies. :clap: :worship:
You caaan't trust the system... Maaan!
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st24

Re: This made it's way to the BBC springwatch FB page.

Postby boff180 on Thu 15 Feb 2018, 11:45 am

st24 wrote: :grin: yes that big, pointed stabbing beak is ideal for picking up grain and dry seeds.. :roll: what a load of pap.


Oh yes of course, you know more than the RSPB who state grain as a primary food source (in-fact they say they eat almost anything),
Of course Lockie, an academic who studied Rooks knew less than you when his research showed that a (weather depending) juveniles diet was up to 40% grain/cereal (Food of Nestling Rooks near Oxford) is also wrong and,
Of course Holyoak (1972), another academic, who showed that in their studies up to 50% of the diet of some Rooks was Barley or Wheat and in some months it was up to 70% for Oats. With 10-40% being animals (Food of the Rook in Britain, Bird Study, 19:2, 59-68, DOI: 10.1080/00063657209476327) is also completely wrong.
But I'm sure these independent sources are just spouting Government lies too.... :clown:

Are there atrocities caused by certain individuals? Yes - but don't tar an entire industry of responsible land owners.etc that don't undertake those practices.

As with everything the 99.5% of the good a group does goes ignored, its the 0.5% that do wrong that everyone picks up on.
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Re: This made it's way to the BBC springwatch FB page.

Postby FarnboroJohn on Thu 15 Feb 2018, 12:09 pm

boff180 wrote:
st24 wrote: :grin: yes that big, pointed stabbing beak is ideal for picking up grain and dry seeds.. :roll: what a load of pap.


Oh yes of course, you know more than the RSPB who state grain as a primary food source (in-fact they say they eat almost anything),
Of course Lockie, an academic who studied Rooks knew less than you when his research showed that a (weather depending) juveniles diet was up to 40% grain/cereal (Food of Nestling Rooks near Oxford) is also wrong and,
Of course Holyoak (1972), another academic, who showed that in their studies up to 50% of the diet of some Rooks was Barley or Wheat and in some months it was up to 70% for Oats. With 10-40% being animals (Food of the Rook in Britain, Bird Study, 19:2, 59-68, DOI: 10.1080/00063657209476327) is also completely wrong.
But I'm sure these independent sources are just spouting Government lies too.... :clown:

Are there atrocities caused by certain individuals? Yes - but don't tar an entire industry of responsible land owners.etc that don't undertake those practices.

As with everything the 99.5% of the good a group does goes ignored, its the 0.5% that do wrong that everyone picks up on.


I can easily see all the figures you quote being completely accurate and despite them, (a) the direct effect of even large Rookeries on any given crop being negligible and (b) the indirect effect of any Rookery on crop yield, due to the percentage of diet consisting of insect prey gleaned and dug up in exactly the same crop fields year-round being actually more beneficial than the crop lost through consumption by Rooks. The overall picture is essential in order to make any judgement at all. I note also that even this sample of Holyoak's work suggests that the situation is complex and what happens in one area of the country with an emphasis on a particular cereal may not hold true for another with a different emphasis.

In addition, the insect predation aspect of Rooks' diet will hold true for fields planted with any cash crop, not just cereals: so that overall the benefit to farmers must be very much greater than your selected statistics suggest.

John
FarnboroJohn

Re: This made it's way to the BBC springwatch FB page.

Postby st24 on Thu 15 Feb 2018, 12:53 pm

FarnboroJohn wrote:
boff180 wrote:
st24 wrote: :grin: yes that big, pointed stabbing beak is ideal for picking up grain and dry seeds.. :roll: what a load of pap.


Oh yes of course, you know more than the RSPB who state grain as a primary food source (in-fact they say they eat almost anything),
Of course Lockie, an academic who studied Rooks knew less than you when his research showed that a (weather depending) juveniles diet was up to 40% grain/cereal (Food of Nestling Rooks near Oxford) is also wrong and,
Of course Holyoak (1972), another academic, who showed that in their studies up to 50% of the diet of some Rooks was Barley or Wheat and in some months it was up to 70% for Oats. With 10-40% being animals (Food of the Rook in Britain, Bird Study, 19:2, 59-68, DOI: 10.1080/00063657209476327) is also completely wrong.
But I'm sure these independent sources are just spouting Government lies too.... :clown:

Are there atrocities caused by certain individuals? Yes - but don't tar an entire industry of responsible land owners.etc that don't undertake those practices.

As with everything the 99.5% of the good a group does goes ignored, its the 0.5% that do wrong that everyone picks up on.


I can easily see all the figures you quote being completely accurate and despite them, (a) the direct effect of even large Rookeries on any given crop being negligible and (b) the indirect effect of any Rookery on crop yield, due to the percentage of diet consisting of insect prey gleaned and dug up in exactly the same crop fields year-round being actually more beneficial than the crop lost through consumption by Rooks. The overall picture is essential in order to make any judgement at all. I note also that even this sample of Holyoak's work suggests that the situation is complex and what happens in one area of the country with an emphasis on a particular cereal may not hold true for another with a different emphasis.

In addition, the insect predation aspect of Rooks' diet will hold true for fields planted with any cash crop, not just cereals: so that overall the benefit to farmers must be very much greater than your selected statistics suggest.

John


Indeed, stats can say anything, evolution does what it does. No doubt whilst searching for grubs, larvae and the like they must pull up all sorts from every square cm of our precious fields thus making them grain eating fiends worthy only of destruction.
You caaan't trust the system... Maaan!
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