How do people handle prop blur

Post by **tankbuster** » Sun 03 Jul 2016, 9:40 am

I've just bought a new lens and planning to buy an ND filter for it. On my previous lens I had a Hoya ND8 which worked extremely well but it is a bit of a faf when display items switch between prop and jets. Having to screw on and screw off just takes longer than is ideal in a fast moving scenario. Yesterday at Yeovilton, I shot without the filter and had a few problems switching settings between the props and the jets. It's not helped by the Yeovilton harsh light which means exposure requirements moving a lot anyway from one end of a pass to another. Without an ND filter my aperture is closing down much more that I would prefer. How do you all cope. I feel a clip-on filter would be very useful.

Post by **TonyB** » Sun 03 Jul 2016, 10:48 am

For what it´s worth, I use a Canon and shoot mainly in AV - usually at F.8. For prop blur I simply turn the main dial until I have a suitable F Stop, depending on the light conditions. You see the Aperture/Shutter speed in the viewfinder, can even keep turning without taking the camera away from the eye.

Just an idea for you to try perhaps.

Post by **tankbuster** » Sun 03 Jul 2016, 11:11 am

TonyB wrote:For what it´s worth, I use a Canon and shoot mainly in AV - usually at F.8. For prop blur I simply turn the main dial until I have a suitable F Stop, depending on the light conditions. You see the Aperture/Shutter speed in the viewfinder, can even keep turning without taking the camera away from the eye.

Just an idea for you to try perhaps.

That's sort of what I was doing yesterday. But don't you end up with very closed down apertures. So say you were at F8 and 1/2000 second for jets and you adjusted for props say 1/200 second you would end up with maybe F22. That's not necessarily a problem but presumably you were shooting at F8 because you thought it was the ideal aperture for your lens and the subject matter.

Post by **coanda** » Sun 03 Jul 2016, 4:59 pm

My 2p...

I shoot in Tv. I select a shutter speed for my subject / what I want to achieve. The aperture value is a by-product of that.

I accept that I can't shoot manual and I don't have time for filters to maintain an aperture value. Over the distances we're shooting I'm not sure that the aperture makes a massive difference to the overall image. I suspect most people are shooting with an F-stop of at least 5.6 for flying subjects. Yep, lens' usually are at their best when they are stopped down a couple of F-stops.

I also make sure that I am shooting at ISO100 at all times - this helps to keep the shutter speed down, alongside the benefit of minimum noise. As a result, I don't think I shoot faster than 1/1250 at an airshow. For prop blur I'm looking for 1/125 or less. I've shot helicopters handheld at 1/50 without image stabilisation and got away with it.

Post by **RichPittman** » Sun 03 Jul 2016, 5:07 pm

My set up

Av for fast jets f7.1

Switch to

TV 250th then lower to 200th or 1/160th if in the hover.
No need to go much lower as the helicopter becomes rotor less which is just as bad as still blades like its hanging from a child's bedroom ceiling :shock:

Post by **tankbuster** » Sun 03 Jul 2016, 7:57 pm

Thanks for the responses. I do pretty much the same as all of you. It was just that I had used an ND filter on my previous lens and I liked the idea that I could set whatever settings I liked but you seem to agree that it's too much trouble and getting the aperture spot on probably isn't as important as I was thinking. You've just saved me the cost of a new filter.

Post by **flashman8** » Sun 03 Jul 2016, 8:32 pm

one thing you can do, if your camera has the capability, is to set the aperture and shutter speed manually, and use auto ISO............unfortunately, a feature that is missing on lots of models.......

Post by **Hatstand** » Mon 04 Jul 2016, 8:38 am

I use a variable ND filter... 2-3 stops for props/helicopters if needed in bright/harsh light, 0 stops for jets/gliders... I added handy 0/1/2/3 stop markings to it, to make it quicker and easier to set.

Post by **DerekF** » Mon 04 Jul 2016, 8:54 am

For normal shooting, the camera will be set to A at an aperture of F/8 or f/11 depending on the light. For props I'll select S and speed of 1/125 or 1/250 sec. For helicopters I might go to 1/60 or 1/125 but that it depeneds on how far away it is, the angle it's at etc..

Remembering to change back to "A" is the secret..... :oops:

Post by **Pat Murphy** » Mon 04 Jul 2016, 9:26 am

DerekF wrote:For normal shooting, the camera will be set to A at an aperture of F/8 or f/11 depending on the light. For props I'll select S and speed of 1/125 or 1/250 sec. For helicopters I might go to 1/60 or 1/125 but that it depeneds on how far away it is, the angle it's at etc..

Remembering to change back to "A" is the secret.....

Pretty much my set up Derek and as for changing back to "A"...If I had a pound for every time I'd forgotten...... :clown:

Might try the Auto ISO option for a bit more control of shutter speed and aperture for Fast stuff this week as I test out the latest shiny toy...well, I say shiny, it's sort of Matt black and Sigma 150-600 shaped really :wink:

Your Welshpool shots tipped it over for me, so we'll see what happens.....

Post by **wallace** » Mon 04 Jul 2016, 6:19 pm

A ND filter will certainly slow the shutter speed down but the real key is a front lit prop against a dark background.
I thought I'd be clever and use an ND8 on a helicopter

XT131 Sioux, Middle Wallop by Wallace Shackleton, on Flickr
... and then it lifted and turned around. Oh how I laughed.

XT131 Sioux, Middle Wallop by Wallace Shackleton, on Flickr

I wish you lots of success with your endeavors.

Post by **tankbuster** » Mon 04 Jul 2016, 6:31 pm

wallace wrote:A ND filter will certainly slow the shutter speed down but the real key is a front lit prop against a dark background.
I thought I'd be clever and use an ND8 on a helicopter
on Flickr
... and then it lifted and turned around. Oh how I laughed.

I wish you lots of success with your endeavors.

If you had tried to do that...

Post by **MC hammer** » Mon 04 Jul 2016, 9:27 pm

coanda wrote:My 2p...

I shoot in Tv. I select a shutter speed for my subject / what I want to achieve. The aperture value is a by-product of that.

I accept that I can't shoot manual and I don't have time for filters to maintain an aperture value. Over the distances we're shooting I'm not sure that the aperture makes a massive difference to the overall image. I suspect most people are shooting with an F-stop of at least 5.6 for flying subjects. Yep, lens' usually are at their best when they are stopped down a couple of F-stops.

I also make sure that I am shooting at ISO100 at all times - this helps to keep the shutter speed down, alongside the benefit of minimum noise. As a result, I don't think I shoot faster than 1/1250 at an airshow. For prop blur I'm looking for 1/125 or less. I've shot helicopters handheld at 1/50 without image stabilisation and got away with it.

I agree with this, saved me the trouble of writing it out myself.

Post by **Wrexham Mackem** » Mon 04 Jul 2016, 10:15 pm

Pat Murphy wrote:
DerekF wrote:For normal shooting, the camera will be set to A at an aperture of F/8 or f/11 depending on the light. For props I'll select S and speed of 1/125 or 1/250 sec. For helicopters I might go to 1/60 or 1/125 but that it depeneds on how far away it is, the angle it's at etc..

Remembering to change back to "A" is the secret.....

Pretty much my set up Derek and as for changing back to "A"...If I had a pound for every time I'd forgotten......

Might try the Auto ISO option for a bit more control of shutter speed and aperture for Fast stuff this week as I test out the latest shiny toy...well, I say shiny, it's sort of Matt black and Sigma 150-600 shaped really Your Welshpool shots tipped it over for me, so we'll see what happens.....

congrats on the new kit Pat!. Baptism of fire this weekend eh?

(don't you realise you'll set me off again!!)

I use exactly the same set up as many. Shutter Priority for props, 1/320 by default lowering when on the ground and further still for helos. Aperture priority f8 by default for jets, and amonst that playing with the ISO to keep exposures sensible. I regularly slip up and forget. Its my age :grin:

Post by **wallace** » Tue 05 Jul 2016, 8:17 am

Talk of Av and Tv modes, the both work but there is another way, it is called Manual mode. It's a seldom used technique but an old one

You know you want to slow down the prop, so you know you need the smallest aperture possible, that's f/16 or f/22, your ISO is fixed usually at 100 (Auto ISO isn't much of a help in this case) so all you have to do is find a shutter speed that works... and that's only one dial to twiddle.

The beauty of manual is that you get to think your shot through and learn something in the process. If you make a mistake, then you learn not to repeat it.

Post by **DerekF** » Tue 05 Jul 2016, 9:25 am

Flicking between A and S is a lot simpler though or Av or Tv or whatever it is. I used to use manual mode but with zooming, panning, focussing etc. it's one less thing to think about.

One unintended consequence of the f/22 apertures is that all your dust spots appear much clearer.....

Post by **Orion** » Thu 07 Jul 2016, 12:05 pm

I have a FZ200 which I use to shoot video.

I set the camera to shutter priority, 1/125 sec and screw a ND2 filter on the front.

The only issue is if I forget to remove the filter when going indoors. The AWB doesn't cope to well.

HTH

Post by **vulcan558** » Sun 20 Nov 2016, 6:35 pm

AV mode you select F8 for instance and find the camera gives you a shutter of 800 on your subject,
So you dial up till its showing a shutter of say 250th, but your AV as now set at F16 say so out of the sweet spot and into dust territory.
You try TV mode dial in a shutter of 250th, the Apeture will go to F16,

TV and AV do pretty much the same thing.
only in manuel can you set your shutter speed and apeture to what you want, so most would like
a prop blur of 250th and apeture of F8. You can only do itin manuel mode.
you may have to then use you ND filter or step down your exposure etc.

Post by **Skyflash** » Mon 21 Nov 2016, 3:33 pm

wallace wrote:A ND filter will certainly slow the shutter speed down but the real key is a front lit prop against a dark background.
I thought I'd be clever and use an ND8 on a helicopter
XT131 Sioux, Middle Wallop by Wallace Shackleton, on Flickr
... and then it lifted and turned around. Oh how I laughed.
XT131 Sioux, Middle Wallop by Wallace Shackleton, on Flickr

I wish you lots of success with your endeavors.

Brilliant - Casper the Friendly Helicopter!

Post by **58Hustler** » Mon 28 Nov 2016, 3:38 pm

Shutter priority 1/160.Thats my 'prop mode'
Aperture priority f5.6 is my 'jet mode'
If its a chopper that I've seen countless times before then I keep twiddling the dial and have some slow shutter speed practice.
What IS quite interesting is the shutter speeds required for full circle prop blur as it differs from type to type.
King Airs are 1/125 I think Hercs are 1/100.
It's all about how many blades, the diameter and speed of rotation.
Any eggheads out there care to compile a table?.

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