Alternatives to DSLR and phone camera?

Alternatives to DSLR and phone camera?

Postby pb643 on Tue 18 Apr 2017, 1:52 pm

On a couple of occasions recently, I have found myself not wanting to carry a DSLR because of the weight and bulk. Equally the camera on my mobile phone is inadequate, because of the short focal length and lack of optical zoom.

I would be interested to hear what other people use, that offers a significant improvement over the phone, but not too huge a compromise over a DSLR with telephoto zoom?

Phil
Last edited by pb643 on Tue 18 Apr 2017, 2:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
pb643

Re: Alternatives to DSLR and phone camera?

Postby farnboroughrob on Tue 18 Apr 2017, 2:07 pm

Hi you should look at bridge cameras. I have a Panasonic DMC-Z200, not too bulky and fine for static shots, or landing/take offs if you are quite close to the subject. No good for flying shots of anything fast, or far away. Lens is built in and has a rechargeable battery. I just don't have the interest in photography to get a DSLR and this camera is used to record what I see. I'm one of those old style spotters who likes side on shots showing the reg!
farnboroughrob

Re: Alternatives to DSLR and phone camera?

Postby Brevet Cable on Tue 18 Apr 2017, 2:10 pm

Compact : an old Canon SX710HS
Bridge : Panasonic Lumix FZ330 ; Canon SX60HS
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Not an enthusiast or a spotter
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Re: Alternatives to DSLR and phone camera?

Postby pb643 on Tue 18 Apr 2017, 2:40 pm

Thanks for the suggestions.

I used to have one of the Lumix superzoom compacts. When it died, I felt that I would not need to replace it as phone cameras have improved to such a degree.

I had also meant to ask what peoples experience was like with the compact system cameras, are they worth a look?
pb643

Re: Alternatives to DSLR and phone camera?

Postby Smg-Uk on Tue 18 Apr 2017, 2:42 pm

I use a Panasonic Lumix FZ1000 Bridge camera has will try post some photos later if your interested.

I was looking at getting a DSLR again as well for airshows but might go for a Mirror less camera like the Lumix G80 with the Leica 100-400mm lens which is equivalent to a 200-800mm in 35mm terms
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Re: Alternatives to DSLR and phone camera?

Postby Brevet Cable on Tue 18 Apr 2017, 2:57 pm

Regarding the SX710 HS.....it's already been superceded at least once & there's another new one due out next month, the SX730 HS : http://www.Canon.co.uk/cameras/powershot-sx730-hs/
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Re: Alternatives to DSLR and phone camera?

Postby Mooshie1956 on Wed 19 Apr 2017, 5:42 am

Have you considered the micro 4/3 system, from Olympus and Panasonic. Admittedly you'll need to carry and change lenses but they offer a very good alternative to DSLR, and much lighter in weight to.
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Re: Alternatives to DSLR and phone camera?

Postby Lighning Fan on Wed 19 Apr 2017, 7:34 am

Depends on your budget and just how much of a quality drop you are willing to accept. Have a look at some of the micro 4/3 cameras such as the Olympus omd range. I know several dslr shooters have converted over and are more than happy
Lighning Fan

Re: Alternatives to DSLR and phone camera?

Postby pb643 on Wed 19 Apr 2017, 10:09 am

Lighning Fan wrote:Depends on your budget and just how much of a quality drop you are willing to accept. Have a look at some of the micro 4/3 cameras such as the Olympus omd range. I know several dslr shooters have converted over and are more than happy


I will take a look, anyone have first hand experience of the micro system cameras?

I have just spent 15 minutes on the web and I am still not clear. What is the difference between micro 4/3 from Panasonic or Olympus and the other compact system cameras, such as the Canon M series?
pb643

Re: Alternatives to DSLR and phone camera?

Postby tankbuster on Wed 19 Apr 2017, 10:24 am

pb643 wrote:
Lighning Fan wrote:Depends on your budget and just how much of a quality drop you are willing to accept. Have a look at some of the micro 4/3 cameras such as the Olympus omd range. I know several dslr shooters have converted over and are more than happy


I will take a look, anyone have first hand experience of the micro system cameras?

I have just spent 15 minutes on the web and I am still not clear. What is the difference between micro 4/3 from Panasonic or Olympus and the other compact system cameras, such as the Canon M series?


I use micro 4/3s and you can see many aviation pictures at my web site at the signature below. There are a number of mirrorless offerings micro 4/3s has two main manufacturers the others are manufacturer dependent, these are Fuji, Sony and Canon, Nikon has dropped out at least for now. Canon is very late to the game but has a hard core user base so may well prosper although the M series is a bit lagging in functionality at the moment. The differences between the systems are largely personal. If you are into video which I am not Panasonic is a clear market leader. Micro 4/3s has a very large lens catalogue at a big range of prices which makes it easier to grow the system. Some people give Fuji the edge in IQ but lack good image stabilisation, and Sony are leading the way in producing FF mirrorless. For me handling is very important and I think this is probably true for most avgeeks who will want to use long lenses so getting a camera in the hand before buying is very important.
Trevor C
recent and not so recent pictures here https://trevorc28a.wixsite.com/trevspics
tankbuster

Re: Alternatives to DSLR and phone camera?

Postby pb643 on Wed 19 Apr 2017, 10:31 am

tankbuster wrote:
pb643 wrote:
Lighning Fan wrote:Depends on your budget and just how much of a quality drop you are willing to accept. Have a look at some of the micro 4/3 cameras such as the Olympus omd range. I know several dslr shooters have converted over and are more than happy


I will take a look, anyone have first hand experience of the micro system cameras?

I have just spent 15 minutes on the web and I am still not clear. What is the difference between micro 4/3 from Panasonic or Olympus and the other compact system cameras, such as the Canon M series?


I use micro 4/3s and you can see many aviation pictures at my web site at the signature below. There are a number of mirrorless offerings micro 4/3s has two main manufacturers the others are manufacturer dependent, these are Fuji, Sony and Canon, Nikon has dropped out at least for now. Canon is very late to the game but has a hard core user base so may well prosper although the M series is a bit lagging in functionality at the moment. The differences between the systems are largely personal. If you are into video which I am not Panasonic is a clear market leader. Micro 4/3s has a very large lens catalogue at a big range of prices which makes it easier to grow the system. Some people give Fuji the edge in IQ but lack good image stabilisation, and Sony are leading the way in producing FF mirrorless. For me handling is very important and I think this is probably true for most avgeeks who will want to use long lenses so getting a camera in the hand before buying is very important.



Thanks Trevor,

So is micro 4/3 a standard lens mount?
pb643

Re: Alternatives to DSLR and phone camera?

Postby tankbuster on Wed 19 Apr 2017, 11:04 am

pb643 wrote:
tankbuster wrote:
pb643 wrote:
Lighning Fan wrote:Depends on your budget and just how much of a quality drop you are willing to accept. Have a look at some of the micro 4/3 cameras such as the Olympus omd range. I know several dslr shooters have converted over and are more than happy


I will take a look, anyone have first hand experience of the micro system cameras?

I have just spent 15 minutes on the web and I am still not clear. What is the difference between micro 4/3 from Panasonic or Olympus and the other compact system cameras, such as the Canon M series?


I use micro 4/3s and you can see many aviation pictures at my web site at the signature below. There are a number of mirrorless offerings micro 4/3s has two main manufacturers the others are manufacturer dependent, these are Fuji, Sony and Canon, Nikon has dropped out at least for now. Canon is very late to the game but has a hard core user base so may well prosper although the M series is a bit lagging in functionality at the moment. The differences between the systems are largely personal. If you are into video which I am not Panasonic is a clear market leader. Micro 4/3s has a very large lens catalogue at a big range of prices which makes it easier to grow the system. Some people give Fuji the edge in IQ but lack good image stabilisation, and Sony are leading the way in producing FF mirrorless. For me handling is very important and I think this is probably true for most avgeeks who will want to use long lenses so getting a camera in the hand before buying is very important.


yes, there are a few other minor manufacturers who use it


Thanks Trevor,

So is micro 4/3 a standard lens mount?
Trevor C
recent and not so recent pictures here https://trevorc28a.wixsite.com/trevspics
tankbuster

Re: Alternatives to DSLR and phone camera?

Postby Brevet Cable on Wed 19 Apr 2017, 12:13 pm

:dunno: :dunno:
:biggrin:

Micro 4/3 -- unless I'm mistaken, all of them use a different lens fitment to the 'full size' SLR models.
Fortunately, lens mount adaptors are available if you already have SLR lenses.....they may even be included with the camera body as standard.
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Re: Alternatives to DSLR and phone camera?

Postby pb643 on Wed 19 Apr 2017, 1:48 pm

Brevet Cable wrote::dunno: :dunno:
:biggrin:

Micro 4/3 -- unless I'm mistaken, all of them use a different lens fitment to the 'full size' SLR models.
Fortunately, lens mount adaptors are available if you already have SLR lenses.....they may even be included with the camera body as standard.


In fairness it is the SLR lenses, that I am reluctant to carry, unless it is for a very good reason. (Particularly the 150-600mm)
pb643

Re: Alternatives to DSLR and phone camera?

Postby Mooshie1956 on Wed 19 Apr 2017, 2:23 pm

Panasonic and Olympus both use micro 4/3 lenses and are interchangeable between systems Personally I went for Panasonic GX80 last year, I also bought a 100-300 lens, equivalent to 200-600 on a 35mm camera. I got an Olympus F2.8 60mm macro lens after a bit of advice on these forums. You can see some of my shots off my flickr account below.
One thing I have found with the 100-300 lens attached to my camera body it doesn't seem to weigh more than a Canon 70d body.
This was taken yesterday with the 60mm macro lens held in one hand.
ImageSpeckled Wood by Peter Hurley, on Flickr
My Flickr https://www.flickr.com/photos/mooshie1956/
Panny G80 12-60 Lens
Panny 100-300 Lens
Olympus 60 Macro Lens
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Re: Alternatives to DSLR and phone camera?

Postby pb643 on Wed 19 Apr 2017, 2:55 pm

Thanks for that Peter, I would be very happy to produce images like that.

Do you own/use a DSLR as well or do you solely use the GX80?

Are you able to give a comparison with an SLR or compact of the focusing speed and shutter release speed. This always used to be the weak point of compact cameras, relative to SLR's
pb643

Re: Alternatives to DSLR and phone camera?

Postby Brevet Cable on Wed 19 Apr 2017, 3:00 pm

If you've got the money ( or don't mind second-hand ) there's always the Sony A-7 / A-7 II series CSCs......24mp full-frame.
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Re: Alternatives to DSLR and phone camera?

Postby pb643 on Wed 19 Apr 2017, 3:07 pm

Brevet Cable wrote:If you've got the money ( or don't mind second-hand ) there's always the Sony A-7 / A-7 II series CSCs......24mp full-frame.


Beyond my budget, I'm afraid.
pb643

Re: Alternatives to DSLR and phone camera?

Postby tom tiger on Wed 19 Apr 2017, 3:15 pm

Hi,

Ehm... how about an Eos M camera. I bought a Canon M3 (24 mp, 4 frames per second) and it comes with a 15-45 mm (which really isn't all that bad, good field of view and sharpness, bit slow on aperture). Plus there is an adapter from Canon (and Meike, viltrox) which let you use ALL EF and EF/S lenses.

Offcourse I have a lot of Canon Glass so it was a logical choice. But this little camera is awesome, about half the size of a DSLR (no viewfinder though) but it really really is an awesome little camera. Great colors and I can use all my Canon glass, plus M42, L39, pentax K. And it won't break the bank. There's also the M10 but it doesn't have a hotshoe (kinda a dealbreaker for me).

I even shot with my 70-200 L on it.

For me it is a great alternative for the static. So the RIAT this year, Canon M3 with 15-45 (and 18-135 stm for filming) and my trusty 70D with 100-400L (and a small 1.4 kenko teleconvertor if the weather is really really good).

Micro 4/3rd's is also a good choice, but look at lenses ;-). M3 body with convertor and you got acces to all the cheap Canon glass. Warning, not all of them will work properly with focussing. I haven't encountered that problem yet and used several lenses on them. Including a 90mm Tamron macro, which to some folks doesn't work on the M3. But Mine does (latest firmware in the M3 ;-) )

L8tr.. Tom
"You Live by the Code, You Die by the Code."
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Re: Alternatives to DSLR and phone camera?

Postby pb643 on Wed 19 Apr 2017, 6:00 pm

tom tiger wrote:Hi,

Ehm... how about an Eos M camera. I bought a Canon M3 (24 mp, 4 frames per second) and it comes with a 15-45 mm (which really isn't all that bad, good field of view and sharpness, bit slow on aperture). Plus there is an adapter from Canon (and Meike, viltrox) which let you use ALL EF and EF/S lenses.

Offcourse I have a lot of Canon Glass so it was a logical choice. But this little camera is awesome, about half the size of a DSLR (no viewfinder though) but it really really is an awesome little camera. Great colors and I can use all my Canon glass, plus M42, L39, pentax K. And it won't break the bank. There's also the M10 but it doesn't have a hotshoe (kinda a dealbreaker for me).

I even shot with my 70-200 L on it.

For me it is a great alternative for the static. So the RIAT this year, Canon M3 with 15-45 (and 18-135 stm for filming) and my trusty 70D with 100-400L (and a small 1.4 kenko teleconvertor if the weather is really really good).

Micro 4/3rd's is also a good choice, but look at lenses ;-). M3 body with convertor and you got acces to all the cheap Canon glass. Warning, not all of them will work properly with focussing. I haven't encountered that problem yet and used several lenses on them. Including a 90mm Tamron macro, which to some folks doesn't work on the M3. But Mine does (latest firmware in the M3 ;-) )

L8tr.. Tom


Sounds an interesting idea Tom, I am also a Canon user, with a 90mm macro that has seen far too little use, mainly because it tends to be an opportunistic thing. I will take a look.
pb643

Re: Alternatives to DSLR and phone camera?

Postby Brevet Cable on Wed 19 Apr 2017, 6:17 pm

From what I recall, isn't/wasn't the M3 available in 2 versions -- with or without a viewfinder ( or was the viewfinder an optional add-on ) ?
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Re: Alternatives to DSLR and phone camera?

Postby Slinger65 on Wed 19 Apr 2017, 6:53 pm

I'd recommend the Panasonic FZ1000 as a good "all round" compromise between price, image quality and portability. In low light the noise levels will be higher than a full frame DSLR, but for most uses, including action shots (good burst mode), landscape and close-up work, it's pretty darn good in my view.

Here are a few images to give you an idea of what's possible...

Image

Image

Image

Image

There's plenty more on our Flickr page...https://www.flickr.com/photos/maxinelayland/

Good luck with whatever you choose.
Slinger65

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Re: Alternatives to DSLR and phone camera?

Postby Mooshie1956 on Wed 19 Apr 2017, 7:20 pm

pb643 wrote:Thanks for that Peter, I would be very happy to produce images like that.

Do you own/use a DSLR as well or do you solely use the GX80?

Are you able to give a comparison with an SLR or compact of the focusing speed and shutter release speed. This always used to be the weak point of compact cameras, relative to SLR's



I get about 7fps in Raw from the GX80, and I've never filled the buffer yet. The Macro lens can be a bit of a fiddle but I've not really used it much yet, bugs and stuff are only just coming out. Much like the long lenses of the DSLR's the 100-300 can hunt a bit in poor light, but overall not to bad. I believe the newer 100-400 is much much better, there's also a version 2 of the 100-300 either just out or due, that's supposed to be faster for focusing.
I sold my 70d and stuff back end of last year, I've got use to the lightness of the Panny and don't really want to go back. I don't shoot professionally or anything, it's purely, as an older age hobby. Saying that I have had a couple of my picture's printed in the local paper :biggrin: . One downfall is the electronic shutter, you get a very slight blackout when tracking, so some guess work is needed with birds an stuff in flight. there are some red dot sights you can buy or if you want make your own that people use.
This was a Jay taken in flight, I had the 60mm macro lens on and x2 digital zoom while trying something out.It's not great but I put it on flickr to show a few friends.

ImageJay by Peter Hurley, on Flickr
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Panny 100-300 Lens
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Re: Alternatives to DSLR and phone camera?

Postby pb643 on Wed 19 Apr 2017, 7:30 pm

Thank you both Slinger and Peter for taking the time to post those images and replying. You both make a strong argument. This gives me lots of things to think about.

Phil
pb643

Re: Alternatives to DSLR and phone camera?

Postby Mooshie1956 on Wed 19 Apr 2017, 9:22 pm

Your welcome and I hope my input has been helpful either good or bad. I'm not the most knowledgeable on set up's, but I like to think I've given you an honest opinion. At the end of the day it's up to you what you go for, what I will say is take your time read reviews of what your looking for and if you can talk to a few people who own those you fancy. You can also get some decent reviews at DP Review https://www.dpreview.com/ .
Good luck with whatever you decide to go for.
My Flickr https://www.flickr.com/photos/mooshie1956/
Panny G80 12-60 Lens
Panny 100-300 Lens
Olympus 60 Macro Lens
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