What does UKAR need? Opinions please...

Re: What does UKAR need? Opinions please...

Postby scotthldr on Wed 03 Jun 2009, 9:20 pm

AlexC wrote:
scotthldr wrote:
ulverstonfgr4 wrote:The country is going to the dog's,our boy's are being killed on a daily basis in Afganistan. This is a hobby is it not.



Sorry but I don't understand the resoning behind this post?


I'd say the reasoning is obvious and relevant.


I'm sorry but I don't, and it's irrelevant to the thread, check the title. The thread is to discuss what changes (if any) are needed to improve UKAR not to discuss the current situation in Afghanistan. Yet again, people derail the topic for no apparent reason.

Before anyone says different, my reply is in no way showing disrespect to the fallen or serving.
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scotthldr

Re: What does UKAR need? Opinions please...

Postby ulverstonfgr4 on Wed 03 Jun 2009, 9:33 pm

What i meant was this is a hobby not life and death! I'm sure the UKAR staff have seen enough to know what they are going to do with this site, i just felt that there was more to worry about than strangling this subject to death.This is a great site and will remain so.
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ulverstonfgr4

Re: What does UKAR need? Opinions please...

Postby AlexC on Thu 04 Jun 2009, 8:08 am

scotthldr wrote:I'm sorry but I don't.


Do you get it now?
Pte. Aubrey Gerald Harmer, R. Suss. R. (att. to the Sherwood Foresters) KIA 26/9/1917 Polygon Wood, aged 19, NKG. RIP
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Re: What does UKAR need? Opinions please...

Postby Macc on Thu 04 Jun 2009, 10:39 am

Rory76 wrote:I have to say that I really do not like the idea of being over restrictive in terms of the number of photos or the quality of those to be posted.

The recent posting from Venice (sorry can't recall the contributor off hand) is a case in point. Are the pictures of a professional standard? No. Are they of interesting subject matter worth sharing with people? Certainly.

If I want to restrict my photo viewing to nothing but the best quality images I will browse through a site like Airliners.net, but that is not what, in general I wish to see. I want to see interesting aircraft in interesting surroundings, whether they are caught on a 1MP camera phone or a 25MP professional camera.

6 pictures per thread is also ridiculously restrictive in my opinion, when you consider that an hour's photography on the approach to an airport or a low fly area can yield 6 top notch photographs of different aircraft it is inevitable that a number of pictures will be missed. A day at Fairford or Waddo limited to a mere handful of pictures is, quite frankly, laughable.

If people choose to cancel downloading pages that contain a high volume of pictures due to the time taken that is entirely their prerogative, but the people who will lose out really are those who have uploaded the images by missing out on viewers of their work. Surely that serves as a kind of self policing method- if you upload a lot of pics, you run the risk of not having the better ones viewed.

If UKAR acted as host for the images I could understand, and support, such a move, but as it doesn't I don't see the need for such draconian measures.

I also feel it necessary to speak out in defence of the younger members of the forum- many of whom speak a lot more sense than some of the adults on here (and, yes, I'm sure some would bracket me in that bracket!)

Concur with every word said in the above!!
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Macc

Re: What does UKAR need? Opinions please...

Postby Southendnick on Thu 04 Jun 2009, 11:22 am

Demanding a set standard for photos will not be fair on those just "dabbling" in photography they might take a camera to airshows just to record the moment or have snaps for the album and are not interested in doing the job professionally.

Others (like myself) might not have access to all singing all dancing photography equipment so naturally our photos are not going to match unto people who have spent many hundreds even thousands on camera gear but we still want top show what we have taken off to a wider audience instead of just family and friends who think A Yak 52 is a Spitfire and Sally B is a Lancaster!

You will never learn to improve your photography without the chance to show off your skills no matter at what level you are if you can’t have the opportunity to show off what you have done and ask for constructive criticism and advice on how to improve.
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Re: What does UKAR need? Opinions please...

Postby Ben Montgomery on Thu 04 Jun 2009, 11:38 am

Southendnick wrote:family and friends who think A Yak 52 is a Spitfire and Sally B is a Lancaster!


That happens so often! :grin:

Seeing as the discussion is currently mostly about photography standards, instead of introducing a standard that photos have to meet to be posted, how about something by which members could rate the top three photos in a post, thereby indicating what they believe to be the best photos? This would give all photo contributors some kind of feedback, and not rate them against other photographers (who could be professionals, or been taking photos for years). Wouldnt take long to do, perhaps a tickbox beside each photo or something. I'm not even sure if this is something that is possible to do on a forum!

Just an idea...

Ben
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Re: What does UKAR need? Opinions please...

Postby MartinNeedham on Thu 04 Jun 2009, 11:48 am

TheOriginalMonty wrote:Wouldnt take long to do, perhaps a tickbox beside each photo or something. I'm not even sure if this is something that is possible to do on a forum!


FenceCheck do something similar to this, although the results are compiled into a Photo of the month competition. Not sure how it would work on a single thread basis though.

Martin
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Re: What does UKAR need? Opinions please...

Postby PhilW on Thu 04 Jun 2009, 6:10 pm

Southendnick wrote:Others (like myself) might not have access to all singing all dancing photography equipment so naturally our photos are not going to match unto people who have spent many hundreds even thousands......


I'm with you on that one ( :grin: ), but think more along the lines of quality of the post, not always of the actual image itself.

I'd be very much against anything that restricts photo posting to only those with expensive kit. The purpose of a photograph doesn't have to be to get every pixel pin sharp, but if you're going to put it on show then I'd like to see much more thought put into the reason why.

At an event/situation where few people were present (Southend airshow for instance :grin: ) then I'm interested in what was there, so would give more leeway on the quality and quantity. Same with a first flight or other newsworthy happening.

If you're thinking of posting shots from a bigger airshow/event, then it's very likely that others will have got far better photos, so perhaps look to get different angles - but this is the occasion when I'd like to see the most self control from UKAR members.

I guess there's a quality/interest ratio, and as long as one of those factors is high, then show me the photo! :smile:
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Re: What does UKAR need? Opinions please...

Postby Graham R on Thu 04 Jun 2009, 6:28 pm

What does UKAR need?
It needs a blooody good airshow season!
Last season was abysmal to say the least and with not a lot to comment about people will comment about each other.
If you look at the most recent threads in either airshow photography or mil Photography the threads that have had the most comments are those from mainland Europe or the States - why, because they are usually unusual ,interesting, or taken in brilliant weather and have a good report to go along with them.
To view a post with large amounts of pictures doesn't do a lot for me personnaly, but if there is a small post with an interesting subject I am more likely to make comment. :smile:
Here's hoping for a decent season so we can submit and report on our hobby with positive comments or otherwise on our offerings
Graham
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Re: What does UKAR need? Opinions please...

Postby scotthldr on Thu 04 Jun 2009, 6:51 pm

exC wrote:
scott holder wrote:I'm sorry but I don't.


Do you get it now?


No, it had no relevance to this thread, end of.


I have had a thought and passed it onto the Board Staff, not sure if it would be possible but I was thinking along the lines of having a tiered structure for the Photography/ Modelling sections ie Beginners, Intermediate and Advanced. Each section would be policed by say 10 trusted members and to progress to the next/higher level you need to continuously produce work to a required quality and have the backing of say 5 from the 10 . It would probably take up a lot more webspace which is at a premium as it is so maybe it's a non starter. Another idea is to charge a yearly membership fee of say 15 pound with all the fees going to charity, this at least would stop multiple accounts getting used for trolling
Last edited by scotthldr on Thu 04 Jun 2009, 7:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What does UKAR need? Opinions please...

Postby Ben H on Thu 04 Jun 2009, 6:55 pm

Not quite, he has a point. I think he is talking about people just taking this hobby too seriously and that people may want to consider giving others a bit more rope or try to be nicer around the forums! Both of which are things that UKAR needs, if you ask me.
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Ben H
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Re: What does UKAR need? Opinions please...

Postby scotthldr on Thu 04 Jun 2009, 7:28 pm

Random wrote:Not quite, he has a point. I think he is talking about people just taking this hobby too seriously and that people may want to consider giving others a bit more rope or try to be nicer around the forums! Both of which are things that UKAR needs, if you ask me.



Agree with most of that Random, yes people do take their hobbies seriously weather it be aviation, bird watching, rock climbing, stamp collecting why do it otherwise. If you can't take yourself( not you personally) seriously then no one else will, will they? The same applies at your work/school/college. You take it seriously don't you or you wouldn't be on the staff, people give up their time to submit articles on here, you give your time to help staff the place, I give up my time to post up topics/WIP's in the modelling section. On the otherhand alot of people merely post for the sake of posting and contribrute nothing at all to the board. I'm all for helping out those that are novices in my area of knowledge, and as for the being nice bit you have hit the nail on the head.
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Re: What does UKAR need? Opinions please...

Postby mais01 on Thu 04 Jun 2009, 7:28 pm

Swaying slightly off topic, but it has been brought up so will chuck in a few words onthis.

The issue of photograpghy has been raised throughout, wether that be quality issues lack of comments and sadly lack of willingness to post iamges following previous experiences of some.

Some of these points have been touched on but hopefully and constructively perhaps these points can be noted.

Quality, there are bound to be varying degrees of quality and perhaps a little more thought in the words used by those commenting, might be worth taking into account the experience of the photographer and the type of equipment used.
Not everyone can afford top of the range kit nad may well be in a position where they have to make do with what they have got.

Location, i'm guessing that the majority would enjoy the access and opportunities available to a few, in the every day world of hobbyists it is unlikely to happen.
Some people may be restricted in their ability to travel so be left with some of what we might call mundane and unintersting locations, worth bearing in mind before commenting perhaps?

On the flip side of the coin, perhaps a little more consideration shoudl be taken by those posting images, it might be worth takign a secod look at an image before posting it if you are satisfied with the result then by all means post away, if you are not happy with then should it really be posted unless specifically for crtique or guidance of what went worng type questions.

It might also be worth remembering that a proprtion of iamges here have been subject to significant alteration of the original image file, soem call it post processing call it what you like but it is alteration, perhaps it might be worth considering includign in a post what has been doen to the image to bring it to its current state when posted.
People might then be better able to judge or offer an opinion not only on the skills of the the image taker but thier photoshop (or other software) skills.
In some cases i have seen images that have clearly been "post processed" and really do not resemble the original conditions etc.
It is understandabel why such post processing occurs and some might not have a problem with it, perhaps a little bit of insight into the final product wouldn't go amiss?
mais01

Re: What does UKAR need? Opinions please...

Postby Russ on Thu 04 Jun 2009, 8:23 pm

Gents, thank you all for your constructive input. All the feedback and ideas has been collated, and we're now going to see how much we can implement. Therefore, we are closing this thread.

We'll try to keep you all posted of any new developments regarding this. But please bear in mind that 13 pages of excellent suggestions will take some time to work through, particularly those of a technical nature.

Kind Regards
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