What does UKAR need? Opinions please...

Re: What does UKAR need? Opinions please...

Postby Russ on Tue 02 Jun 2009, 8:23 pm

John Cairncross wrote:Rule #20, is it ever used?
20) Any post deemed unnecessary or pointless will be removed immediately. Repeat offenders may be warned and/or banned. This includes thread bumping, needless post count increasing or comments that are generally not very helpful, e.g. “nice pics mate”.


Yes, absolutely. A couple of members have had their memberships terminated because of continual pointless posts recently.
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Russ

Re: What does UKAR need? Opinions please...

Postby Downes0106 on Tue 02 Jun 2009, 9:21 pm

I haven't read all the previous posts but scanned a selection. Many of the points made against the site are valid, and to some extent that is why I havent posted for some time - that and the fact that I havent had any shots which I consider worthy of posting (that will be changing in the next few days).

When I post I do so for two reasons - 1) So I can share them with friends (be they UKAR or others), and 2) To get feedback/critique on my photography. Personally I dont care if I get comments or not, but I appreciate that some do. What I think is good, others may not - that's fine by me.

The problem as I see it is (a) the very wide spectrum of quality, and (b) the quantity of images from similar sources, i.e. airshows, airbases, valleys. Looking at (a) Images posted on the site vary from those taken by professionals to those taken by those new to photography. People are far more likely to comment on excellent images than run of the mill images of F-15's at Lakenheath (just an example). This variety is what makes UKAR what it is. and needs to be encouraged. But would it be sensible to have a category to be stated under user-names, selected by the individual e.g. Novice, experienced amateur, semi-pro, pro. By selecting which section you would want to be ranked under, you would also be highlighting what sort of feedback you are seeking - a novice would I suspect want tips etc and objective critique of their work. A Pro probably doesnt care what you say, his/her images are good, probably already being published, and hey....the cash is in the bank.

Turning to (b) - Southend airshow is a case in point. I havent the time, or will to go through so many threads of a fairly average line-up. You cant limit the number of posts per show, but how about having a single post for the show, with a max of 3 images per user (like what happens with the threads covering particular types etc.). This would maintain quality and remove any favouritism towards particular posters.

Not sure if that all helps, but that's my two pennies worth.
Scott

Canon EOS7D, with 30D Back-up
Canon 100-400MM IS, 70-200MM plus some wide-angle/macro stuff
Downes0106

Re: What does UKAR need? Opinions please...

Postby IanH on Tue 02 Jun 2009, 10:43 pm

Downes0106 wrote:I haven't read all the previous posts but scanned a selection. Many of the points made against the site are valid, and to some extent that is why I havent posted for some time - that and the fact that I havent had any shots which I consider worthy of posting (that will be changing in the next few days).

When I post I do so for two reasons - 1) So I can share them with friends (be they UKAR or others), and 2) To get feedback/critique on my photography. Personally I dont care if I get comments or not, but I appreciate that some do. What I think is good, others may not - that's fine by me.

The problem as I see it is (a) the very wide spectrum of quality, and (b) the quantity of images from similar sources, i.e. airshows, airbases, valleys. Looking at (a) Images posted on the site vary from those taken by professionals to those taken by those new to photography. People are far more likely to comment on excellent images than run of the mill images of F-15's at Lakenheath (just an example). This variety is what makes UKAR what it is. and needs to be encouraged. But would it be sensible to have a category to be stated under user-names, selected by the individual e.g. Novice, experienced amateur, semi-pro, pro. By selecting which section you would want to be ranked under, you would also be highlighting what sort of feedback you are seeking - a novice would I suspect want tips etc and objective critique of their work. A Pro probably doesnt care what you say, his/her images are good, probably already being published, and hey....the cash is in the bank.

Turning to (b) - Southend airshow is a case in point. I havent the time, or will to go through so many threads of a fairly average line-up. You cant limit the number of posts per show, but how about having a single post for the show, with a max of 3 images per user (like what happens with the threads covering particular types etc.). This would maintain quality and remove any favouritism towards particular posters.

Not sure if that all helps, but that's my two pennies worth.


Forgive me Scott and anyone who posted these past two days without reading the earlier posts but almost everything that has been said recently came out at the start of the thread and again many times over the weekend. To save everyone going around in circles and reinventing the thread, it might be worth reading the earlier posts. Having been in on this one at the start I`m sure the mods might just be getting a 'tad' weary now and maybe this is reflected in some of the short replies. It has been an interesting thread to say the least.

Sorry but it just may save some others time who may think they are not getting any reponse or at least one they hope for. As for the chap who said they may have something good to post over the next few days; that is great news. I just hope its not from somewhere in Wales as you`ll be in amongst the 100`s that may soon follow.
IanH

Re: What does UKAR need? Opinions please...

Postby John Cairncross on Wed 03 Jun 2009, 7:37 am

Russ wrote:He clearly doesn't Ben, he posted since then as well.
An interesting username too! :question:

There isn't one, because every right thinking individual knows everything is perfect here and this thread was pointless in the first place.
:tumbleweed:

p.s. thanks for making an outsider feel so welcome.
Last edited by John Cairncross on Wed 03 Jun 2009, 8:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
John Cairncross

Re: What does UKAR need? Opinions please...

Postby Abingdonman on Wed 03 Jun 2009, 8:13 am

John Cairncross wrote:
Russ wrote:He clearly doesn't Ben, he posted since then as well.
An interesting username too! :question:

There isn't one, because every right thinking individual knows everything is perfect here and this thread was pointless in the first place.

:tumbleweed:


Whether your serious or not...your not far wrong in any case! :grin:
Abingdonman

Re: What does UKAR need? Opinions please...

Postby Manonthefence on Wed 03 Jun 2009, 8:27 am

John Cairncross wrote:
p.s. thanks for making an outsider feel so welcome.


John, you are an outsider because you want to be. Look at your posting record.
Manonthefence

Re: What does UKAR need? Opinions please...

Postby onemac on Wed 03 Jun 2009, 9:57 am

Manonthefence wrote:
John Cairncross wrote:
p.s. thanks for making an outsider feel so welcome.


John, you are an outsider because you want to be. Look at your posting record.

John

You are a member here like the rest of us. You are entitled to your opinion and the fact you've not posted much has nothing to do with it :smile: Thanks for taking the time.

Al
When in Athens.......
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onemac

Re: What does UKAR need? Opinions please...

Postby Rory76 on Wed 03 Jun 2009, 1:04 pm

I have to say that I really do not like the idea of being over restrictive in terms of the number of photos or the quality of those to be posted.

The recent posting from Venice (sorry can't recall the contributor off hand) is a case in point. Are the pictures of a professional standard? No. Are they of interesting subject matter worth sharing with people? Certainly.

If I want to restrict my photo viewing to nothing but the best quality images I will browse through a site like Airliners.net, but that is not what, in general I wish to see. I want to see interesting aircraft in interesting surroundings, whether they are caught on a 1MP camera phone or a 25MP professional camera.

6 pictures per thread is also ridiculously restrictive in my opinion, when you consider that an hour's photography on the approach to an airport or a low fly area can yield 6 top notch photographs of different aircraft it is inevitable that a number of pictures will be missed. A day at Fairford or Waddo limited to a mere handful of pictures is, quite frankly, laughable.

If people choose to cancel downloading pages that contain a high volume of pictures due to the time taken that is entirely their prerogative, but the people who will lose out really are those who have uploaded the images by missing out on viewers of their work. Surely that serves as a kind of self policing method- if you upload a lot of pics, you run the risk of not having the better ones viewed.

If UKAR acted as host for the images I could understand, and support, such a move, but as it doesn't I don't see the need for such draconian measures.

I also feel it necessary to speak out in defence of the younger members of the forum- many of whom speak a lot more sense than some of the adults on here (and, yes, I'm sure some would bracket me in that bracket!)
Ricoh Caplio R5

Sony A300 ('L' Plates Fitted)
Rory76

Re: What does UKAR need? Opinions please...

Postby MartinNeedham on Wed 03 Jun 2009, 1:29 pm

A little off topic here; but whatever happened to UKAR Images?

Martin
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MartinNeedham

Re: What does UKAR need? Opinions please...

Postby scotthldr on Wed 03 Jun 2009, 6:37 pm

I think people on here either haven't read the replies or just care to ignore them. One of the main opinions voiced by many on here is the amount of sarcastic and belittling posts on here, yet it still goes on with Staff members being the biggest culprits. What does it matter if John Cairncross has 6 posts or 600 posts? He is a fellow member on here and has taken the time to become one. He joined only in Febuary but for all we know he may have been visiting the site for years under a different username or as a visitor and has seen it change for the worse, yet he isn't allowed to say his piece without sarcastic replies.

Russ and LNStrike Eagle aren't you meant to be showing an example

Martin your second last comment is insulting and uncalled for and its remarks like that that are driving people away. :mad:

Manonthefence, John knows that he is an outsider on here, and is it any wonder why he is with remarks like yours. It's not about the amount of posts people have, hence why the post counter was removed when the board was updated :mad:

Onemac, you've hit the nail on the head and it's a shame others can't be as welcoming as you. :clap:

John welcome to the forum and I hope that you stay around.
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scotthldr

Re: What does UKAR need? Opinions please...

Postby agdickie on Wed 03 Jun 2009, 6:42 pm

Might be worth remembering that the staff can see more of the picture than you...
Agdickie on Airliners.net
Hey jet pilots! Do a barrell roll!
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Re: What does UKAR need? Opinions please...

Postby scotthldr on Wed 03 Jun 2009, 6:52 pm

Maybe so, but they should remember that every member sees what they're posting and it doesn't look good or inviting to the normal members or visitors.
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scotthldr

Re: What does UKAR need? Opinions please...

Postby MartinNeedham on Wed 03 Jun 2009, 6:57 pm

scotthldr wrote:Manonthefence, John knows that he is an outsider on here, and is it any wonder why he is with remarks like yours. It's not about the amount of posts people have, hence why the post counter was removed when the board was updated :mad:


Scott, I've got to disagree with you here. To stop being an "outsider"; you've got to interact with other members more, which involves posting more frequently. Although having said this, posts don't mean everything, it's the quality of said posts that count.

My now 3rd to last post was not intended to be insulting; I find it rediculous that someone makes 10 accounts on the same forum. Granted, this is my second membership, but only because my first account was hacked.

Martin.
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MartinNeedham

Re: What does UKAR need? Opinions please...

Postby scotthldr on Wed 03 Jun 2009, 7:08 pm

MartinNeedham wrote:
scotthldr wrote:
Scott, I've got to disagree with you here. To stop being an "outsider"; you've got to interact with other members more, which involves posting more frequently. Although having said this, posts don't mean everything, it's the quality of said posts that count.

Martin.


Martin, John states that he is an outsider, he isn't wasn't complaining about that fact. What he was complaining about was the sarcastic remarks made to his posting on here. I take it from your "10 accounts" statement that somehow you're refering to John? If so then why do the Mods allow this to happen, surely it should be one member one account.
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scotthldr

Re: What does UKAR need? Opinions please...

Postby Ben H on Wed 03 Jun 2009, 7:17 pm

scotthldr wrote:Martin, John states that he is an outsider, he isn't wasn't complaining about that fact. What he was complaining about was the sarcastic remarks made to his posting on here. I take it from your "10 accounts" statement that somehow you're refering to John? If so then why do the Mods allow this to happen, surely it should be one member one account.


If you take a look at his previous posts from this account, and those from his other nine 'mates', I'm sure you will see that he has not gone about endearing himself at all. If he is genuine and has started off his posting by slagging off UKAR, then that is his own fault and it can't be helped. Creating 10 accounts and using them to be irritating is something different altogether.

Ben
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Ben H
UKAR Supporter

Re: What does UKAR need? Opinions please...

Postby Ben Montgomery on Wed 03 Jun 2009, 7:18 pm

I dont think there is a forum rule with regards to how many usernames people can have. Admittedly it could make things a little confusing, but if someone wanted multiple accounts (not sure why!) would it be a major problem, unless said person was using the accounts for spamming/malicious activity.

Ben
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Ben Montgomery

Re: What does UKAR need? Opinions please...

Postby scotthldr on Wed 03 Jun 2009, 7:31 pm

Random wrote:
If you take a look at his previous posts from this account, and those from his other nine 'mates', I'm sure you will see that he has not gone about endearing himself at all. If he is genuine and has started off his posting by slagging off UKAR, then that is his own fault and it can't be helped. Creating 10 accounts and using them to be irritating is something different altogether.

Ben



Having read the posts from JohnCarincross, I fail to see were he is slagging off UKAR, people were asked for their opinions and he gave his. As for his other 9 accounts well give me the names so I can look for myself.
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scotthldr

Re: What does UKAR need? Opinions please...

Postby scotthldr on Wed 03 Jun 2009, 7:35 pm

The Original Monty wrote:I don't think there is a forum rule with regards to how many usernames people can have. Admittedly it could make things a little confusing, but if someone wanted multiple accounts (not sure why!) would it be a major problem, unless said person was using the accounts for spamming/malicious activity.

Ben


Personally I think it is a big problem as it encourages trolling, one of my key points that I made last night. Can the mods block IP addresses? If so why don't they. If people want to be genuine on here then stick to one account.
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scotthldr

Re: What does UKAR need? Opinions please...

Postby Ben Montgomery on Wed 03 Jun 2009, 7:37 pm

scotthldr wrote:trolling


You'll have to explain that one - what is it? :grin:
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Ben Montgomery

Re: What does UKAR need? Opinions please...

Postby LN Strike Eagle on Wed 03 Jun 2009, 7:41 pm

We can block IP addresses, but it's not a very reliable method.

As you rightly say, multiple account names are mostly used for trolling, and in this instance, that's exactly the case.

Rest assured the genuine feedback from this thread is being considered and changes will be implimented in due course.

I'll clean this thread up in a moment, because one "troll" has managed to derail what was otherwise an excellent debate.
"You really are an oafish philistine at times!"
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LN Strike Eagle
UKAR Staff

Re: What does UKAR need? Opinions please...

Postby scotthldr on Wed 03 Jun 2009, 8:13 pm

TheOriginalMonty wrote:
scotthldr wrote:trolling


You'll have to explain that one - what is it? :grin:


See here, quite a good description

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=trolling
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scotthldr

Re: What does UKAR need? Opinions please...

Postby ulverstonfgr4 on Wed 03 Jun 2009, 8:28 pm

The country is going to the dog's,our boy's are being killed on a daily basis in Afganistan. This is a hobby is it not.
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ulverstonfgr4

Re: What does UKAR need? Opinions please...

Postby Abingdonman on Wed 03 Jun 2009, 8:32 pm

I thought Trolling was the collecting of dolls,anyhow...
That last one in the link 'trolling'No 7 was very funny :grin: (I thought so anyway!)
Abingdonman

Re: What does UKAR need? Opinions please...

Postby scotthldr on Wed 03 Jun 2009, 8:47 pm

ulverstonfgr4 wrote:The country is going to the dog's,our boy's are being killed on a daily basis in Afganistan. This is a hobby is it not.



Sorry but I don't understand the resoning behind this post?
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scotthldr

Re: What does UKAR need? Opinions please...

Postby AlexC on Wed 03 Jun 2009, 9:09 pm

scotthldr wrote:
ulverstonfgr4 wrote:The country is going to the dog's,our boy's are being killed on a daily basis in Afganistan. This is a hobby is it not.



Sorry but I don't understand the resoning behind this post?


I'd say the reasoning is obvious and relevant.
Pte. Aubrey Gerald Harmer, R. Suss. R. (att. to the Sherwood Foresters) KIA 26/9/1917 Polygon Wood, aged 19, NKG. RIP
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