1:48 F-4D Phantom updated 31/07

[Tug 747]

Well this is going to be next build it is a monogram kit and i shall attempt to finish it as a LN machine of the mid 70,s. I shall be using xtradecal USAFE Phantoms based in England part 2 for this.
Now for the colour scheme i will be finishing it in 2 tone green & tan and not the flat brown that was carried by most Phantoms. now comes the colour matching problems i shall be using the following paints which will be applied by using an air brush. Tamiya XF-58 & Tamiya XF-27 for the 2 tone green and Tamiya XF-52 for the tan and for the white underside i shall be using Tamiya X-2. Now in the illustration it looks like a lime green but the FS number does come out as XF-52 flat earth and the images that i have seen of this colour is indeed a tan rather than a green. Well i shall start with the box shot and the obligatory sprue shots.













Well i have made a start and i did the cockpit this afternoon.




As before any hints and tips will be much appreciated i shall aim to get this done quicker than my other 1

Doug

[iainpeden]

Doug
I was talking to Dave Hannant when the sheet first came out. Apparently the "tan" was applied as usual but it appears that there was a batch which for some reason weathered quickly to that sightly washed out green; it happened across USAF as I have come across pictures of Germany based D's and a Hill AFB F-4D of the 388TFW (65-659) which have faded in a similar manner.

When producing the sheet they went for the nearest FS match they could.

As ever when researching Phantoms I point people to this website:

http://www.5053phantoms.com/photos/index.php

I have also just got one of those off e-bay - it'll either end up as a lizard (European 1) Arkansas ANG a/c or I might go for the kit decals and model the a/c which was sitting at the Coventry Air Museum

Good luck

[Jamesv9820]

Looking forward to this one - the old camouflage is a corker to do!

[scotthldr]

The colour you want is indeed FS34201 SAC Tan/Brown. http://www.colorserver.net/showcolor.as ... 4102+14201

This is available from Xtracolor X119(which is the closest you'll get) or Model Master 1792, Vallejo Model Colour 924, Humbrol 72 and Life Color UA039. I cannot find any reference converting it to Tamiya so don't know where XF52 comes from?

The undersides should be FS36622 Light Grey not White.

http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u299 ... 584_la.jpg

HTH

Scott

[iainpeden]

I had another look at the colour photo of the HL aircraft last night. The picture is of the starboard side, almost straight on and from slightly above so you can just see the top of the wings. The tan on the top of the wing looks to be the standard brown tan.

The "tan" area from the back of the cockpit to the black nose cone appears to be browner the nearer the nose it gets; the "tan" area at the back of the fuselage which then loops up back over the fin and finishes high up on the rudder looks browner as it goes to the back of the a/c. I have a b/w photo of the same a/c taken at the same time; tonally the tan on the faded a/c looks the same as another a/c in the background.

I wonder if we're into another F-4J(UK) scenario with a strong primer and thin top coating.

[Tug 747]

by iainpeden on Sun 17 Jun 2012, 7:29 pm

Doug

As ever when researching Phantoms I point people to this website:

http://www.5053phantoms.com/photos/index.php

Thanks for the link that is a very informative and well laid out site i think i shall be visiting it on a regular basis.

Scott i looked up the wrong FS number FS30219 is XF-52 so i shall have to go shopping again.

Any how have done some more today have joined the fuselage halves together and mated the it to the wings and i have to say that i am pleased with the result as everything seemed to go together really well with nice tight seems and no gaps.







Will try to update again later in the week.

Doug

[Fumbles]

Good start on this one... You seem to have all the classic kits in your stash. All in all this build is looking good. But if I may say. Maybe now you can try out a little filler on places like the intake join.
Best way to add some. Place some tape on both sides of the seem. Squeeze a very small amount of filler on something like a blade. Swipe the putty into the seem. Let dry and sand with some soft sandpaper. Remove the tape and you should get a nice smooth filled seem without sanding away to much surrounding detail. At least thats the way I do it.
Maybe someone else has a better easier way. Still though looking good. I would of kept the Niagara Falls ANG markings. Just biased though since I grew up not far from there and saw these F-4's quite often.

[Tug 747]

Well i seem to have missed somethings out on this WIP namely some shots and as i got carried away whilst building and just kept going.
Any how i have now come to a full stop until my order from Hannants comes through which i hope will be soon. As Scott pointed out i had the wrong shade of brown / tan so i have to wait for the paint to arrive and then i shall be bristle brushing this rather than air brushing. Any how just a couple of shots of the finished kit build wise while i should have some colour added in the next few days. Just one question i know what colour the wing pylons are but i would like to know what colour are the missile rails are please white or grey.





Doug

[RoverDriver]

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[iainpeden]

Here's a site you might find useful - just be wary of the colour balances of your screen.

Click on the tabs and you get the "actual" colour displayed.

http://www.ipmsstockholm.org/colorchart ... rts_us.htm

[jaguar]

Doug,

My mate in the U.S. thinks the green that's giving you issues is (The green in question could be coded as FS14201 or X 119 (lime green / pea soup color)..
http://www.abpic.co.uk/photo/1131567/ if you can click on this it is a picture of McDonnell Douglas F-4D Phantom II, 65-0721 LN (the one on your colour marking sheet) he has also stated that the underneath is a very very light grey.

Paul.
CPC Aviation Photography

[iainpeden]

That picture is a classic for showing how colour photography can't be trusted -and allied to different computer screens, it makes the situation even more questionable.

If you look at the 34102 green at the lower front of the a/c - over the airconditioning duct just behind the radome and compare it to the green around the jetpipe area they look very different - however they should be/are the same colour.

I'm afraid I'm getting a bit pedantic about this one because I suspect it's a case of a faded batch of 3*219, which will need to be replicated by mixing, rather than an experimental use of a slightly lighter green with an official FS number.

If anybody on this forum can find/supply colour shots from above the a/c it would be interesting to compare the upper wing colours with the fuselage.

Just paint the darn thing pink - that's about the only colour I've not seen a Phantom in.

[Tug 747]

by iainpeden on Mon 25 Jun 2012, 7:55 pm
Just paint the darn thing pink - that's about the only colour I've not seen a Phantom in.

Right ok consider it done

Doug

[Jamesv9820]

Doug

Are you just planning this to be the SEA Camo scheme adopted by the likes of the F-105? If so I can affirm the colours for you?

[canon55k]

Hi Doug,
Just to clarify hopefully?
The liink that Paul sent you, I have a Kodachrome slide exactly the same as that pic and on my monitor side by side they look to be the same green, which is as the TJ m/c I sent over to you.
I realize that this adds more to the confused situation so at the end of the day it is your choice as to which grren to can match.
Ian

[Tug 747]

i am getting fed up with all the banter regarding the correct colours so i went with Iain's suggestion



There what do you think just hope that it is the right shade and all i need to do is slap a few stickers on and the jobs a good un.

Doug

[jaguar]

Nice one Doug but you forgot the undercarriage door Lol

Paul.
CPC Aviation Photography

[iainpeden]

but are you sure its the correct FS pink?

[Craig]

Looks cracking, just as a bit of constructive criticism there's a bit of seepage around the cockpit that needs touching up!

[iainpeden]

I contacted a friend of mine, Ted Bayliss. Ted leads the Phantom special interest group of IPMS UK and helped organise the 500+ display at Telford in 2008.

here's his reply

Hi Iain
Nice to hear from you again.
I'm planning trips to Waddington, Fairford and Farnborough this year. I have a new vehicle now, in the form of a motorhome, so I'm truly independent.
As to your colour question. There has been a hot debate raging over this for years. It is not due to fading. This was a deliberately applied colour, though the wrong one. It is believed that a batch of paint was either mixed wrong or marked wrong. FS34201, at that time, was one of the standard SAC SIOP colours. I have seen pictures of aircraft that apparently were partially repainted in the odd colour (most notable was a LN F-4D which had the LN code masked off, and the rest of the tan was resprayed. Also, this appears to have occurred over several areas (Alaska and Far East notably), which points to a wrong id if the paint pot. The colour suggested by Hannants is in my opinion spot on, not just close, though colour interpretation from photos is never easy.
We may never know the cause, but it's certainly an interesting scheme. I have built one myself a while ago.

Hope this helps explain things.

Regards


Ted Bayliss

Looks like I was wrong about the fading.

[Deacon]

I'm afraid this is more Marsh-mellow pink and should be Pink Panther Pink.

The kids love it by the way.

Alan

[iainpeden]

The next group build? Pretty in Pink.

[Tug 747]

I'm afraid this is more Marsh-mellow pink and should be Pink Panther Pink.

The kids love it by the way.

Alan

Looks cracking, just as a bit of constructive criticism there's a bit of seepage around the cockpit that needs touching up!

:yahoo: but are you sure its the correct FS pink?

Nice one Doug but you forgot the undercarriage door Lol

Paul.
CPC Aviation Photography

ok I give up.
Now it is the wrong shade of pink and i have missed bits and then there is the seepage is there no pleasing you guys.

Doug

[canon55k]

Hi Dougie,
Lokks like you have opened a can of worms with this one , so may I make a suggestion.
Just buiid the kit as you think and when finished post it. TO LATE THEN.
Ian

[Craig]

Hi Dougie,
Lokks like you have opened a can of worms with this one , so may I make a suggestion.
Just buiid the kit as you think and when finished post it. TO LATE THEN.
Ian