Culdrose Air Day 2017

Re: Culdrose Air Day 2017

Postby Xray833 on Thu 16 Feb 2017, 7:47 pm

[quote][/quote]My Dad has attended every CU airshow since 1947 bar one - must be a record!

Can`t beat that but I`ve been to most since 1955. Missed a couple in the `90s and 2005.

They have a new base commander so "new broom" and all that.
Xray833

Re: Culdrose Air Day 2017

Postby Finningley Boy on Fri 17 Feb 2017, 2:24 pm

I note the comment about a combined South West airshow representing Culdrose and Yeovilton, just how does this combination actually succeed in doing this ? Do they hold a two-day event at Yeovilton? I personally think as others do, that Culdrose last year suffered one wash out too many, that's always been the main fault line under Culdrose, its suffered far too many ruined air days due to the heavy sea mist, fog low cloud, call it what you will, but it is still disappointing and another most unwelcome contraction. :sad:

FB
I have danced the skies on laughter-silvered wings!
Finningley Boy

Re: Culdrose Air Day 2017

Postby 106500 on Fri 17 Feb 2017, 3:24 pm

I think it conveys a complete lack of commitment, ambition and will power. They've taken the easy way out - yes last years was a disaster but the two years before that were very successful and excellent shows. Its as though they can't be bothered, they are a spineless bunch of jobsworths - I thought these events were about displaying to the general public all that is good about the navy/air force, a fertile recruiting ground and opportunity to show the people who after all fund them what the navy does. Its a poor outcome and I believe the navy should be taken to task and challenged strongly on their woeful decision. It all just an excuse in my opinion and effectively is a snub to the taxpayer, locals and holidaymakers alike - it makes my blood boil!!! :mad:
106500

Re: Culdrose Air Day 2017

Postby jalfrezi on Fri 17 Feb 2017, 4:09 pm

106500 wrote:I think it conveys a complete lack of commitment, ambition and will power. They've taken the easy way out - yes last years was a disaster but the two years before that were very successful and excellent shows. Its as though they can't be bothered, they are a spineless bunch of jobsworths - I thought these events were about displaying to the general public all that is good about the navy/air force, a fertile recruiting ground and opportunity to show the people who after all fund them what the navy does. Its a poor outcome and I believe the navy should be taken to task and challenged strongly on their woeful decision. It all just an excuse in my opinion and effectively is a snub to the taxpayer, locals and holidaymakers alike - it makes my blood boil!!! :mad:


Probably because they're spending all of what's left of their budget on unnecessary aircraft carriers and the F-35, defence budgets have almost halved since the 80's and airshows are seen as an unnecessary expense.
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jalfrezi

Re: Culdrose Air Day 2017

Postby DeanW on Fri 17 Feb 2017, 4:12 pm

106500 wrote:I think it conveys a complete lack of commitment, ambition and will power. They've taken the easy way out - yes last years was a disaster but the two years before that were very successful and excellent shows. Its as though they can't be bothered, they are a spineless bunch of jobsworths - I thought these events were about displaying to the general public all that is good about the navy/air force, a fertile recruiting ground and opportunity to show the people who after all fund them what the navy does. Its a poor outcome and I believe the navy should be taken to task and challenged strongly on their woeful decision. It all just an excuse in my opinion and effectively is a snub to the taxpayer, locals and holidaymakers alike - it makes my blood boil!!! :mad:

Someone's had a few too many jars down the local on their Friday lunch break :dizzy:
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DeanW

Re: Culdrose Air Day 2017

Postby 106500 on Fri 17 Feb 2017, 4:49 pm

DeanW wrote:
106500 wrote:I think it conveys a complete lack of commitment, ambition and will power. They've taken the easy way out - yes last years was a disaster but the two years before that were very successful and excellent shows. Its as though they can't be bothered, they are a spineless bunch of jobsworths - I thought these events were about displaying to the general public all that is good about the navy/air force, a fertile recruiting ground and opportunity to show the people who after all fund them what the navy does. Its a poor outcome and I believe the navy should be taken to task and challenged strongly on their woeful decision. It all just an excuse in my opinion and effectively is a snub to the taxpayer, locals and holidaymakers alike - it makes my blood boil!!! :mad:

Someone's had a few too many jars down the local on their Friday lunch break :dizzy:

Sorry for expressing a strong opinion. I'll try not to next time :loser:
106500

Re: Culdrose Air Day 2017

Postby Spotty_Jag on Fri 17 Feb 2017, 6:40 pm

106500 wrote:Its as though they can't be bothered, they are a spineless bunch of jobsworths.

Oooooor, they're busy on operations? :dunno:
Spotty_Jag

Re: Culdrose Air Day 2017

Postby Ouragan on Sat 18 Feb 2017, 1:17 pm

Well, I know of one person on one of the Merlin squadrons who has spent nine out of the last twelve months on various deployments, while a friend of mine who is a civvie at the station remarked to me when he saw me today that it is quite noticeable that a lot of naval personnel have 'evaporated away' for various reasons, mostly to do with the forthcoming deployment to the new carrier. There is also a certain amount of 'new broom-itis' with the current captain, and that should not be underestimated.

What is bad is that the first the event company that organises the commercial side of the show knew of it was reading it on Facebook.

As for the future, the 'joint South West' event talked about already takes place at Yeovilton. That will be the FAA's sole airshow from now on, I have no doubt. A shame, as Culdrose was always one of the friendliest shows around and did their best to make it a proper 'family' event. Not ideal for us hardcore enthusiasts, but very welcome in the area, and the end of the show will only distance the station from the community that has lived alongside it for the last 70-odd years.
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Ouragan

Re: Culdrose Air Day 2017

Postby Spotty_Jag on Sun 19 Feb 2017, 10:40 am

Ouragan wrote:As for the future, the 'joint South West' event talked about already takes place at Yeovilton.


Why not host them both on the same weekend? Yeovilton Saturday / Culdrose Sunday. Share the international participants in the flying display? And amend the ground layout to allow the statics to fly in/out as required?
Spotty_Jag

Re: Culdrose Air Day 2017

Postby Finningley Boy on Sun 19 Feb 2017, 12:35 pm

All the reasons cited about operational tasking and the deployment away of personnel from the station isn't sudden. I rather imagine this simply the new CO seeking to remove a practice which he has little or no enthusiasm for.

FB
I have danced the skies on laughter-silvered wings!
Finningley Boy

Re: Culdrose Air Day 2017

Postby 106500 on Sun 19 Feb 2017, 2:59 pm

Finningley Boy wrote:All the reasons cited about operational tasking and the deployment away of personnel from the station isn't sudden. I rather imagine this simply the new CO seeking to remove a practice which he has little or no enthusiasm for.

FB

Totally agree and in the process doing nothing for the local economy, alienating the people of Helston and West Cornwall and totally against the notion of the naval 'family' working in harness with the people of Cornwall. Pathetic and I hope the CO whoever he or she is might be forced to reflect on this through appropriate formal protestations wherever these might come from.
106500

Re: Culdrose Air Day 2017

Postby Cyril Dorricott on Sun 19 Feb 2017, 5:23 pm

106500 wrote:
Finningley Boy wrote:All the reasons cited about operational tasking and the deployment away of personnel from the station isn't sudden. I rather imagine this simply the new CO seeking to remove a practice which he has little or no enthusiasm for.

FB

Totally agree and in the process doing nothing for the local economy, alienating the people of Helston and West Cornwall and totally against the notion of the naval 'family' working in harness with the people of Cornwall. Pathetic and I hope the CO whoever he or she is might be forced to reflect on this through appropriate formal protestations wherever these might come from.


I've never before read such complete and utter bollox! How on earth do you,someone who lives a several hundred miles away, feel qualified to post something so outrageously offensive! You clearly do not understand the Cornish!, I can assure you, as someone of Helston, born and bred, with many many connections to RNAS Culdrose, that , no one, absolutely no one in Helston or West Cornwall feels alienated.On the contrary we can all understand,accept and respect the reasons given for there being no show this year.
It's been obvious for several months now that the station are busy and that a good percentage of the squadrons' personnel and aircraft are away, and will become even more so in the months leading up to show date.

There will be no protests whatsover from the people of Helston or West Cornwall. There's far more to life than the loss of an airshow!
Cyril Dorricott

Re: Culdrose Air Day 2017

Postby 106500 on Sun 19 Feb 2017, 5:51 pm

Cyril Dorricott wrote:
106500 wrote:
Finningley Boy wrote:All the reasons cited about operational tasking and the deployment away of personnel from the station isn't sudden. I rather imagine this simply the new CO seeking to remove a practice which he has little or no enthusiasm for.

FB

Totally agree and in the process doing nothing for the local economy, alienating the people of Helston and West Cornwall and totally against the notion of the naval 'family' working in harness with the people of Cornwall. Pathetic and I hope the CO whoever he or she is might be forced to reflect on this through appropriate formal protestations wherever these might come from.


I've never before read such complete and utter bollox! How on earth do you,someone who lives a several hundred miles away, feel qualified to post something so outrageously offensive! You clearly do not understand the Cornish!, I can assure you, as someone of Helston, born and bred, with many many connections to RNAS Culdrose, that , no one, absolutely no one in Helston or West Cornwall feels alienated.On the contrary we can all understand,accept and respect the reasons given for there being no show this year.
It's been obvious for several months now that the station are busy and that a good percentage of the squadrons' personnel and aircraft are away, and will become even more so in the months leading up to show date.

There will be no protests whatsover from the people of Helston or West Cornwall. There's far more to life than the loss of an airshow!


Actually I do know quite a few people in Helston who have told me they are disappointed. I've been holidaying in Cornwall for very many years, having family there, helping in a small way to bring much needed tourism to the Duchy and am one of those same tourists who have enjoyed the show but won't be able to any more. Personally I have rarely missed Culdrose shows for well over 20 years, have you? Still it looks like there won't be any more and of course we are all sympathetic and will take it lying down! If fact that's happening right across the country with few RAF and Navy shows left but we all understand and will accept this with a wimper, after all the authorities must be right.... Oh sorry I forgot, I don't understand the Cornish, but then you clearly do as you are 100% confident in that you know everyone in Helston and West Cornwall - wow that's impressive, but still you're Helston born and bred so are amply qualified! :loser:
106500

Re: Culdrose Air Day 2017

Postby Stagger2 on Sun 19 Feb 2017, 6:04 pm

Disappointing indeed! Once again, the difference between attitude in many other countries & the UK. come to the fore. In the USA. it's well known that their Military Air-shows are showcasing "your" Army, Navy, Air-Force & are gratis.
A couple of posts above seem to hold significant clues:-
a] " it is quite noticeable that a lot of naval personnel have 'evaporated away' ".....Allegedly it takes great man-power to run an event such as Culdrose. The loss of the Nimrods at St Mawgan with all the attendant air & groundcrew/support was a noted factor in the demise of that Air-show.
b] I'm quite sure that HMS Queen Unnecessary.....sorry! Elizabeth will have some impact on Culdrose as stated , but surely providing "the very first aircraft to land on her deck" aint the 'deal-breaker' it's made out to be. It's only a ceremonial thing. There will be bloody months before the tub of s*#*e needs helicopters at sea & even longer, if ever before it sees jets?
c]The sad fact is, there are insufficient personnel in the Navy to meet it's staffing requirements. Just this last week the Navy have been actively recruiting demobbed & retired ex Navy Engineers due to a fleet-wide shortage of these skilled trades, citing no appetite amongst the younger recruits to train in this profession. 'Regurgitated' engineers will become "full-time Reservists! Why not just plain Navy??
d] The Navy are also rumoured to be doling-out new 'QE' caps to any sailor who is currently unable to sail in their normal ship due to serviceability/refit or deemed to be surplus to minimal requirements on their current ship, to provide sufficient trained crew to just bring "HMS White Elephant 1" to Portsmouth. All this for an active Fleet smaller than Brittany Ferries! :whistle:
e] The final insult to the public & particularly businesses local to Culdrose is to conclude the RN Statement with "the possibility is to combine the Yeovilton and Culdrose Air Days to create one South West Fleet Air Arm event".
This is grand deception material. There will never be any kind of Air-day such as been held ever again at Culdrose. All that statement says in Plain English is..... We're fed-up with all the effort of organising the annual event just to have it cancelled due to weather at the stooopid location of this airbase. So it's gonna be at Yeovilton from now on & you'll just have to drive up there, even if you're on holiday down here!...or just not come on holiday...or not go up there!
PS:- We don't care what you think....Annnd we only put in the bit about South-West to make you feel better. Naturally it's really a whole of UK. FAA event, coz we aint got any other airfields to have it at :butt: :tongue2: :wave:
Yours insincerely,
RNAS Culdrose.
Stagger2

Re: Culdrose Air Day 2017

Postby Cyril Dorricott on Sun 19 Feb 2017, 6:24 pm

Stagger2 wrote:Disappointing indeed! Once again, the difference between attitude in many other countries & the UK. come to the fore. In the USA. it's well known that their Military Air-shows are showcasing "your" Army, Navy, Air-Force & are gratis.
A couple of posts above seem to hold significant clues:-

c]The sad fact is, there are insufficient personnel in the Navy to meet it's staffing requirements. Just this last week the Navy have been actively recruiting demobbed & retired ex Navy Engineers due to a fleet-wide shortage of these skilled trades, citing no appetite amongst the younger recruits to train in this profession. 'Regurgitated' engineers will become "full-time Reservists! Why not just plain Navy??
d] The Navy are also rumoured to be doling-out new 'QE' caps to any sailor who is currently unable to sail in their normal ship due to serviceability/refit or deemed to be surplus to minimal requirements on their current ship, to provide sufficient trained crew to just bring "HMS White Elephant 1" to Portsmouth. All this for an active Fleet smaller than Brittany Ferries!


Nothing new there, the draw-down and rebuild of the Royal Navy has happened throughout her history, vessels held in ordinary, crew transferred between ships, etc. etc.
Cyril Dorricott

Re: Culdrose Air Day 2017

Postby tu16 on Sun 19 Feb 2017, 7:36 pm

In most European countries you get ONE main military show, and even then it may be biennial.
For years the UK has bucked the trend with large forces shows at Waddington, Leuchars, Cosford, Culdrose, Yeovilton and RIAT (and yes, I know there were sooo many more in the 90s).
Looks like the Royal Navy are following the Air Force in pairing back their air show commitment to a more "European" level.
tu16

Re: Culdrose Air Day 2017

Postby The Baron on Sun 19 Feb 2017, 8:50 pm

tu16 wrote:In most European countries you get ONE main military show, and even then it may be biennial.
For years the UK has bucked the trend with large forces shows at Waddington, Leuchars, Cosford, Culdrose, Yeovilton and RIAT (and yes, I know there were sooo many more in the 90s).
Looks like the Royal Navy are following the Air Force in pairing back their air show commitment to a more "European" level.


The difference being that RIAT is solely, and Yeovilton and Culdrose are mostly, run by civilian organisations.
Loafer for Mr. Da Vinci.
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The Baron

Re: Culdrose Air Day 2017

Postby Finningley Boy on Sun 19 Feb 2017, 11:44 pm

tu16 wrote:In most European countries you get ONE main military show, and even then it may be biennial.
For years the UK has bucked the trend with large forces shows at Waddington, Leuchars, Cosford, Culdrose, Yeovilton and RIAT (and yes, I know there were sooo many more in the 90s).
Looks like the Royal Navy are following the Air Force in pairing back their air show commitment to a more "European" level.


The European countries you're largely referring to I imagine are Holland, Belgium, Denmark etc. Belgium especially is, relative to the UK, quite known for its military air shows. But its the UK which has seen the greatest decline, all of which is blamed on operational commitments. I've made the point before, the Armed Forces have always had a busy time, During the 1950s we had operations in Malaya, Borneo, Suez, Cyprus then in the 1960s, apart from the continuation of some of the previous, there was also Aden then Northern Ireland. One of the Culdrose CO's reasons was counter-terrorism operations. It really begs the question , how is Yeovilton able to manage? I honestly believe that last year's dismal wash out has focused the mind, if it was a one off it probably wouldn't matter but Culdrose has suffered far too often from complete wash outs that I'm not entirely surprised. I just wish we could be given an honest answer I don't honestly believe that the expected tempo of activity and deployments for Culdrose is going to be starkly different to that of Yeovilton.

FB
Last edited by Finningley Boy on Mon 20 Feb 2017, 1:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I have danced the skies on laughter-silvered wings!
Finningley Boy

Re: Culdrose Air Day 2017

Postby Stagger2 on Mon 20 Feb 2017, 2:22 am

Cyril Dorricott wrote: Nothing new there, the draw-down and rebuild of the Royal Navy has happened throughout her history, vessels held in ordinary, crew transferred between ships, etc. etc.


On that basis of 'no change' from the good ol' days, how can OC. Culdrose endorse the Navy statement breaking the news that there will be no Air-Day 2017 due to operational commitments & pressure caused by 'QE' to supply a couple of Merlins to land-on while she sails into Portsmouth for months/years?
Reference the other based aviation assets, I am at some loss to imagine how many pirate-hunting Merlins are out at any one time? Most embarked helicopters are Wildcats from.....yes, Yeovilton. Add-in a couple of Sea King 'Baggers' for good measure & that aint a ball-busting commitment really? Jeez!....they aint even got the SAR job to do anymore. Sounds like a crock of s*#*e to me.
Ships are not my 'bag of bolts', but I do know that the Type 45 Daring Class Destroyers are extremely unreliable & they are tasked with providing cover against air-attack for our 'QE' turd. I believe we have 21 fighting ships in the Senior Service & last year all 6 Type 45 were in Port. I don't mean on operational turnaround either. Reports state the fleet of 6 Type 45 Destroyers has collectively spent nearly twice as long in the Dockyard than at sea since being declared operational. HMS Duncan was towed back into Plymouth by tugs just 2 days after going to sea. Some of them are in Port awaiting modifications for up to Three years!
As with all the Services, there is a draw-down....but no 'rebuild'. Crews have always been posted to other ships....but right now they are being hijacked to make-up crews for ships that can't be manned sufficiently. At this rate it wont be much longer before we see 'Press-gangs' back in action.
"for Royal Naval Air Station Culdrose. 80% of the Air Station’s front line aircraft and personnel are already serving on operations or at very high readiness to deploy all around the world." Commendable words from 'Captain Dan' I'm sure, but 80% of next to nothing is still close to nothing. "Life is like a Box of Chocolates & that's all I can say about that really!"
Stagger2

Re: Culdrose Air Day 2017

Postby Stagger2 on Mon 20 Feb 2017, 2:29 am

Sorry FB. but I've only just noticed this extract from your last post...."[b] One of the Culdrose CO's reasons was cunter-terrorism operations. It really begs the question[/b]" .....Indeed it does? :whistle:
Probably a typo'.....but oh so true! :wink:
Stagger2

Re: Culdrose Air Day 2017

Postby Finningley Boy on Mon 20 Feb 2017, 1:05 pm

Stagger2 wrote:Sorry FB. but I've only just noticed this extract from your last post...."[b] One of the Culdrose CO's reasons was cunter-terrorism operations. It really begs the question[/b]" .....Indeed it does? :whistle:
Probably a typo'.....but oh so true! :wink:
:oops: :oops: :oops:
FB :biggrin:
I have danced the skies on laughter-silvered wings!
Finningley Boy

Re: Culdrose Air Day 2017

Postby Ouragan on Mon 20 Feb 2017, 1:34 pm

With all due respect to Mr. Dorricott, and speaking as another Cornishman, I can say that everyone I have spoken to about it is very disappointed, and nobody expects the air day to be resurrected next year or ever. And they aren't very happy about having to go to Yeovilton either.

The forthcoming deployment to the new carrier seems to be treated as the biggest thing to happen to naval aviation since Lt Dunning landed on in his Sopwith Pup. Politically it cannot go wrong, and I suspect that once the Merlins deploy there will be a marked drop in the skies around West Cornwall in Merlin activity for a while as all the best ones will be embarked.

In terms of 80% of aircraft deployed or in readiness, Culdrose now has an operational complement of 30 Merlin HM.2s, 12 Hawk T.1s, four King Airs and eight Sea King ASaC.7s. Judging by that about 43 aircraft are away or about to be so. Hmm, I don't think so. Can't say about the personnel, however.

I do wonder, however, how many personnel from Culdrose will be at Yeovilton on Saturday 8 July to help man the barricades for the show there...
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Ouragan

Re: Culdrose Air Day 2017

Postby 106500 on Mon 20 Feb 2017, 2:21 pm

...and that's it; first St Mawgan and now Culdrose gone forever. How many recall the 1980 St Mawgan show with Nimrods and TT18 Canberras performing touch and go's one after the other in procession (one for the forum photos page if anyone has some images to post as I'd love to reminisce!)? All no more and now in the dustbin of history. It now begs the question - how long will Yeovilton survive? :sad:
106500

Re: Culdrose Air Day 2017

Postby G-CVIX on Mon 20 Feb 2017, 9:21 pm

I live in Porthleven (a couple of miles from CU) and everyone I've spoken to is disappointed, though understanding.

I do think that this is the actual end for the airshow here. I think that it's been coming for years.

Does anyone remember a really rainy Wednesday where a B-52 loomed out of the mist? Or when the SU-27s blasted people over? Or one year when "something" flew overhead and couldn't be seen through the clouds, and immediately departed when landing was impossible?

In 2001(?), aged 10, I emerged from a hangar to watch a couple of yellow and red twin boomed aircraft make more noise than I'd ever heard before and that was it, I was hooked on aviation.
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G-CVIX

Re: Culdrose Air Day 2017

Postby 106500 on Mon 20 Feb 2017, 11:11 pm

It occurred to me, is this not UK Airshow Review Forum? for me the Forum I look at most on line. So where are the howls of outrage, anguish or derision at the loss of a major UK Airday, probably permanently? As far as I am see the response at least on this thread has been muted and accepting, comments like, we are disappointed but understand... elsewhere on the Forum the question was asked why there was an apparent decline in Forum usage? Well just when a strong reaction is needed to what is plainly another nail in the coffin of the UK Airshow we get very little comment, almost as though it's an acceptable step, so move on... I for one are somewhat disillusioned about the apparent response from enthusiasts here; we see a massive thread on a grounded aircraft but comparatively little on a subject which should be central and fundamental to this Forum - odd and difficult to explain :dunno:
106500

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