Someone Has To Mention It - Traffic

[vandal]

the whole point why the bus service was made so cheap, at £2 was to try and persuade most to use that facility, to try and calm down the traffic using the base. But people will still come. Add to that, the people I saw, who are willing to pay £10 to park a car with 5 in, and then sit in the car park having a barbecue, and watch the show, it saves them £100 in entrance fees. Maybee the car parks should have been INSIDE the ticket areas, so all people needed an airshow ticket to get to the car park

We never come onto base without ours.

[ukmil]

as I say, plenty did, I saw lots sitting on chairs in the car parks, watching the show having just paid £10 for the parking.

[vandal]

There was a ramp provided to allow wheel chairs to get into the buses as well as disabled parking next too buses for anyone with wheel chairs did not have far too go . so again why drive into the base the buses where not over crowded ,they where clean, well ventlated so again why drive into the base .

There is a legal requirement that Public transport Operators must allow Disabled persons the same right of access as able bodied persons, hence the ramp. The buses you were on may have not been overcrowded, but there will have been some points in the day when multiple families with buggies / pushchairs and maybe Disabled persons were all waiting to get on the same buses, and space just will not allow it. I worked for a Train Operating Company recently, and there has been a number of times I could not let cyclists board due to lack of space. Buggies and wheelchairs can and do cause similar problems.

It is never a case of 'having far to go'. It comes down to practicalities, and what fits the Disabled persons needs on the day.

[Trevster]

The buses I saw both at and on the way back to the P&R as I was on the way there were most certainly not wheelchair compatible and will likely fall foul of new regulations when they come into force.

[vandal]

as I say, plenty did, I saw lots sitting on chairs in the car parks, watching the show having just paid £10 for the parking.

I witnessed this too.

Maybe an idea next year to do a combined family / parking type ticket?

[737-200]

The buses I saw both at and on the way back to the P&R as I was on the way there were most certainly not wheelchair compatible and will likely fall foul of new regulations when they come into force.

I think that you are right that many bus companies will not have a fleet of busses that meet wheelchair requirements when the new regulations come into force but I think that you will find that the new regulations cover new buses and not ones in an existing fleet of busses. Whilst wheelchairs / prams / people on crutches have an equal right to use public transport I'm sorry but I think that it is beyone rediculous that you could expect a bus company to replace a whole fleet of busses because the law has changed.

As for the Park and view I would definatley use it again next year.

We left about 30 mins after the flying display ended. Waited about 20 mins to get a P+R bus, straight out about 5 mins traffic getting back to the P+R then straight out of there with no traffic on the road back to the campsite.

Well worth the money too... Only £2 for the car which was much cheaper than parking on the base.

Well done to all who organised the Park And Ride..... Excellent Service!!!

Mark

[Chris H]

Meh. I just accept that the traffic management at every airshow will be a nightmare, you can't fit tens of thousands of people into one small space with only a few ways out and expect everything to flow smoothly.

To be honest I enjoy kicking back and relaxing, chatting about the day and watching all of the numptys get irate with each other. There were plenty of scuffles, scrapes and arguments, if people were a bit more polite and everyone stopped to let one car in, and people didn't barge their way ahead and try to create new queues everywhere then it wouldn't be so much of a hassle getting out.

People just need to relax a bit more but it seems that the old adage is true, the second you put people behind the wheel of a car they do indeed become idiots!

Still, it was hilarious watching them all. We just waited until 19:50 and pretty much cruised out of the car park, stress free.

Good times.

[Trevster]

The buses I saw both at and on the way back to the P&R as I was on the way there were most certainly not wheelchair compatible and will likely fall foul of new regulations when they come into force.

I think that you are right that many bus companies will not have a fleet of busses that meet wheelchair requirements when the new regulations come into force but I think that you will find that the new regulations cover new buses and not ones in an existing fleet of busses. Whilst wheelchairs / prams / people on crutches have an equal right to use public transport I'm sorry but I think that it is beyone rediculous that you could expect a bus company to replace a whole fleet of busses because the law has changed.

All full size single deck buses over 7.5 tonnes will be fully accessible from 1 January 2016, and all double deck buses from 1 January 2017. New buses weighing up to 7.5 tonnes and coaches will be required to have wheelchair access from 1 January 2005. All buses weighing up to 7.5 tonnes will be fully accessible from 1 January 2015 and coaches by 1 January 2020.

I understand Stagecoach (the regular P&R supplier) have signed a deal to replace their entire fleet but I'm not sure of the timescale for it.

[vandal]

The buses I saw both at and on the way back to the P&R as I was on the way there were most certainly not wheelchair compatible and will likely fall foul of new regulations when they come into force.

I'm sorry but I think that it is beyone rediculous that you could expect a bus company to replace a whole fleet of busses because the law has changed.

Everyone who used to smoke in the workplace now can no longer do so. Because the law has changed.

[LynneK]

There was a ramp provided to allow wheel chairs to get into the buses as well as disabled parking next too buses for anyone with wheel chairs did not have far too go . so again why drive into the base the buses where not over crowded ,they where clean, well ventlated so again why drive into the base .

Not all disabled people are wheelchair-bound. Try considering that all people who suffer from disabilities have their own individual needs before you go spouting off self-serving, self-righteous BS. Thanks.

[fawlty]

so again why drive into the base .

To lessen the risk of having to be on the same bus as you & your opinions perhaps? Just a thought

[vandal]

Meh. I just accept that the traffic management at every airshow will be a nightmare, you can't fit tens of thousands of people into one small space with only a few ways out and expect everything to flow smoothly.

To be honest I enjoy kicking back and relaxing, chatting about the day and watching all of the numptys get irate with each other. There were plenty of scuffles, scrapes and arguments, if people were a bit more polite and everyone stopped to let one car in, and people didn't barge their way ahead and try to create new queues everywhere then it wouldn't be so much of a hassle getting out.

People just need to relax a bit more but it seems that the old adage is true, the second you put people behind the wheel of a car they do indeed become idiots!

Still, it was hilarious watching them all. We just waited until 19:50 and pretty much cruised out of the car park, stress free.

Good times.

I don't mind having to wait my turn in a queue either, but when it comes down to either bad management or ineptitude thats causing the delays, that's when tempers flare and common sense goes out the window. You're right though, it can be amusing watching these people lose it, just as long as they are not in any cars in front of me.

[planefluff]

There was a ramp provided to allow wheel chairs to get into the buses as well as disabled parking next too buses for anyone with wheel chairs did not have far too go . so again why drive into the base the buses where not over crowded ,they where clean, well ventlated so again why drive into the base .

Not all disabled people are wheelchair-bound. Try considering that all people who suffer from disabilities have their own individual needs before you go spouting off self-serving, self-righteous BS. Thanks.

I know this ,the question asked of me was how can i use park and ride if my mum in wheel chair ,so stop the whole you hate disabled people thing YOUR OUT OF ORDER

[planefluff]

so again why drive into the base .

To lessen the risk of having to be on the same bus as you & your opinions perhaps? Just a thought

Again you are also OUT OF ORDER ,again unless there is a real need to park at base ,use the park and ride ,or like the other guys who dont mind waiting ,standing having a wee chat about the show .And if you dont then dont moan about being in there for 3 hours ,as they say on compare the meerkat .com "SIMPLES"

[flatfoot471]

This was the first year I have driven to the show. Every year I have always gone by train without any problem. We drove from the St. Andrews end, and the intention had been to go on base for parking. We got stuck in the traffic queue at the Strathkinness junction and it took us about 40 mins to get as far as Guardbridge. Happened to see an enterprising chap, offering parking in the Papermill car park for £3/car/day. An offer which couldn't be ignored. Parked there just after 10. Walked from there in to the base no problem. At end of show we loitered in the base, talking to a few of the exhibiotrs and taking more photo's till we were thrown out. We walked back to car park and away no problem. Next year will maybe try the P & R.

[Eireair]

Meh.

There were plenty of scuffles, scrapes and arguments, if people were a bit more polite and everyone stopped to let one car in, and people didn't barge their way ahead and try to create new queues everywhere then it wouldn't be so much of a hassle getting out.

This is the main problem, People creating new queues all over the shop. At the choke points by the radar tower on the Cast Exit there were 5 marshals each doing the own thing creating chaos, They were not even give equal treatment to each que. The poor sods in the Icecream vans did not move 20ft I'd say in the hour we waited. The Marshalls should of been out in the car parks directing the traffic into less queues and streamlining the process. Also Marshalls standing around with the hands in the pockets were seen with no effort to assist the situation.

One Marshall told us there were 3 fatal accidents with in 25 miles and 3 people that had collapsed due to the heat, this also did not help the situation.

We qued in the end @ 7pm and got out at 8pm, We got the Stanraer 20 mins before the boat left for Ireland. Pheww!!!!!

All in all a good day. Pity about the F.3 at the end though. shame.

cheers

George

[LynneK]

There was a ramp provided to allow wheel chairs to get into the buses as well as disabled parking next too buses for anyone with wheel chairs did not have far too go . so again why drive into the base the buses where not over crowded ,they where clean, well ventlated so again why drive into the base .

Not all disabled people are wheelchair-bound. Try considering that all people who suffer from disabilities have their own individual needs before you go spouting off self-serving, self-righteous BS. Thanks.

I know this ,the question asked of me was how can i use park and ride if my mum in wheel chair ,so stop the whole you hate disabled people thing YOUR OUT OF ORDER

I think if you re-read my post you will find that I said my Mum is disabled. I never once mentioned that she is in a wheelchair. You are the one who is out of order. Please just realise that what works well for you doesn't necessarily work well for everyone else. The tone in which you are posting makes it seem as if you are the self-righteous and absolutely correct one. If Park & Ride works well for you then great, I'm happy for you. Park and Ride would work well for us if it were just my Father and I.

I'm not going to post any more on this subject with you, as I feel you are looking at this in a completely blinkered fashion.

[fawlty]

so again why drive into the base .

To lessen the risk of having to be on the same bus as you & your opinions perhaps? Just a thought

Again you are also OUT OF ORDER ,again unless there is a real need to park at base ,use the park and ride ,or like the other guys who dont mind waiting ,standing having a wee chat about the show .And if you dont then dont moan about being in there for 3 hours ,as they say on compare the meerkat .com "SIMPLES"

Err, no. Disagreeing with someone does not mean they are out of order. It seems that debating a point with you is a rather worthless activity as you either resort to some cack-handed generalisation about matters upon which you are surprisingly ignorant or rant away in some sort of pigdin English.

In short, you sir are the internet equivalent of being accosted in the street by a jakie with a can of Tennent's Super strength in his hand and a worrying stain running the length of his trousers. Rather than waste any more bandwith & effort in deciphering your blethers I'd put you on my ignore list if I could find it!

[EGL]

Nothing changes does it!? Leuchars and bad traffic go hand in hand every year.

I've got recollections of sitting in queue's both to get in an out in previous years. Arriving just as the Russian Knight's were coming into land, being stuck in the airfield as the light starts to fade!

After the Russian Knight's year we ended up arriving and leaving from the North which didn't seem to be quite as bad.

From my seat on the crowdline it seemed like the traffic from the South were being taken into Leuchars itself, as I didn't see the usual snake of cars going round the inside of the the base - is that correct?

Heard someone opposite me at work saying they joined a queue outside Cupar at 9:30 and got into the car park at 1

Last time I took the car I left the crowdline at approx 4:00 and took almost 2 hours to get out the car park. From memory most of the problems seem to be caused by people coming out of each car park section into 1 queue to get out and completely no management of the queue's making sure each one get's a fair go.

This year and last year I drove to Dundee and got the train which wasn't too bad. Did mean I was at the gates in time for them opening (had someone found the right key) and got away alright. It is a bit of a walk from the station and the organisation there wasn't brilliant. Train to Dundee left half empty and then they tried to cram everyone onto a 3 carriage train to Aberdeen leaving half the people on the station. I'm sure they could have organised it so that those only travelling to Dundee could have boarded the Dundee train.

In terms of the P&R when did the buses start? Only thing that put me off was the thought of turning up at the car park early and having to wait for the first bus to fill before leaving - like to be there for opening.

[fawlty]

From my seat on the crowdline it seemed like the traffic from the South were being taken into Leuchars itself, as I didn't see the usual snake of cars going round the inside of the the base - is that correct?

That's exactly what I saw as well, a complete absence of traffic threading it's way up to the car parks from the south.

In terms of the P&R when did the buses start? Only thing that put me off was the thought of turning up at the car park early and having to wait for the first bus to fill before leaving - like to be there for opening.

We passed it at about 7.45am and there was a line of buses (empty) though there were cars arriving then. What perhaps didn't help was the narrow road which they were using also had several large tractors attempting to squeeze past them.

In principle it sounds like a good idea and well worthwhile a shot in the future. Didn't fancy being a guinea pig in it's first year out though, far better the devil you know as they say!

[LynneK]

In principle it sounds like a good idea and well worthwhile a shot in the future. Didn't fancy being a guinea pig in it's first year out though, far better the devil you know as they say!

It's been running for a few years now. The buses don't get a dedicated route through Guardbridge as far as I know, so they're in the same queue as everyone else going in, but I think it would work well for getting away swiftly at the end of the show. We passed it at 7:30pm (having got back to our car and ready for the off at 4:30pm) and the P&R car park only had about 3 cars left in it.

We used the bus service from Swindon to RIAT this year and 2 years ago, which works really well (didn't go last year - thankfully!). Pay a fiver each and you get a practically dedicated route from the edge of Swindon town right to the base. Then you're looking at about a 10 / 15 minute walk to get to the gate (or there are buses to take you if you prefer).

Another option for Leuchars is to leave the car at Cupar and get on the train - especially if the traffic is building up. We did this a few years ago (can't remember specifically which year, but IIRC it was the last time the Mirage 2000 flew at Leuchars - we got there late and the car park was full already - which we found out after sitting in a queue of cars through Cupar for 2 hours!) It worked well because the train was so busy there were no ticket inspectors to charge us a fare for getting on the train

[planefluff]

I think if you re-read my post you will find that I said my Mum is disabled. I never once mentioned that she is in a wheelchair. You are the one who is out of order. Please just realise that what works well for you doesn't necessarily work well for everyone else. The tone in which you are posting makes it seem as if you are the self-righteous and absolutely correct one. If Park & Ride works well for you then great, I'm happy for you. Park and Ride would work well for us if it were just my Father and I

I'm not going to post any more on this subject with you, as I feel you are looking at this in a completely blinkered fashion

I was talking about someone else saying they could not use park and ride because their mother was in a wheel chair when you assumed i was so stupid to think all people who are disabled need wheel chairs

[planefluff]

so again why drive into the base .

To lessen the risk of having to be on the same bus as you & your opinions perhaps? Just a thought

If you are so sad to think i am a ned, then with your childish remarks to start with ,which where in no way called for, sir you are nothing short of a snob

[LynneK]

I think if you re-read my post you will find that I said my Mum is disabled. I never once mentioned that she is in a wheelchair. You are the one who is out of order. Please just realise that what works well for you doesn't necessarily work well for everyone else. The tone in which you are posting makes it seem as if you are the self-righteous and absolutely correct one. If Park & Ride works well for you then great, I'm happy for you. Park and Ride would work well for us if it were just my Father and I

I'm not going to post any more on this subject with you, as I feel you are looking at this in a completely blinkered fashion

I was talking about someone else saying they could not use park and ride because their mother was in a wheel chair when you assumed i was so stupid to think all people who are disabled need wheel chairs

Eh, no - The only person who has posted on this thread about their mother is ME. Your comment was aimed directly at ME, hence the fact you quoted MY post in your (pathetic) response. Careful now, if you back-pedal any faster you'll fall off your bike...

I, too, am off to find the ignore list. Your inane responses to my, and other people's, posts are really getting on my thrup'ny bits...

[planefluff]

My Mum is disabled. Would you have her use park & ride?

Get a grip!!!

This is your reply to my post about using the park and ride if anyone sick of waiting in all the traffic coming out of base , now you tell me in anyway in this post did you mention that your mum was not in a wheel chair and if she does not use a wheelchair pray tell me how she then can not use the park and ride ,this is not aimed at being nasty i would just like you too explain why your mum could not along with yourself and your dad use the park and ride ,and if you look at post below yours you will see someone mentioned that that there dad was in a wheelchair ALSO and thats why he could not use the park and ride ,so he also assumed by your get a grip post that your mum used a wheelchair .I cant believe that a post about thinking people where silly to enter the base then moan about traffic instead of using the park and rides ,somehow has me labelled some sort of thug