Season Premiere Airshow Sunday 8 May 2016

Re: Season Premiere Airshow Sunday 8 May 2016

Postby Orion on Thu 12 May 2016, 8:32 am

Looking at the photos published elsewhere on this site, I don't get the impression that photographers were too handicapped by the new rules. The pictures are well up to the usual quality. As for the atmosphere of the Old Warden shows, well things do have to move on occasionally and in this case for a very good reason. Even at the Shuttleworth pilots do make mistakes and I have seen aircraft displays that strayed to close to the crowd line for comfort.

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Orion

Re: Season Premiere Airshow Sunday 8 May 2016

Postby AlexC on Thu 12 May 2016, 11:09 am

What utterly depressing reading. I attended my first Shuttleworth airshow in 1972 (using a 135mm lens with K64), and have visited most years between then and last year for all the reasons mentioned above. I might make the drive up from the south coast maybe once this year to see for myself, but that will probably be for the last time. There's not even the birds of prey there any more which were a delight to see. Oh, and I'll have to find another calender to replace the Shuttleworth one that I buy every year, plus the other items that I often buy in the shop.

I think that this could really be the beginning of the end of airshows, nasty dangerous things, who in their right minds would want to go near one? End of an era.
Pte. Aubrey Gerald Harmer, R. Suss. R. (att. to the Sherwood Foresters) KIA 26/9/1917 Polygon Wood, aged 19, NKG. RIP
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Re: Season Premiere Airshow Sunday 8 May 2016

Postby Ian G on Thu 12 May 2016, 2:12 pm

Orion wrote:Looking at the photos published elsewhere on this site, I don't get the impression that photographers were too handicapped by the new rules. The pictures are well up to the usual quality. As for the atmosphere of the Old Warden shows, well things do have to move on occasionally and in this case for a very good reason. Even at the Shuttleworth pilots do make mistakes and I have seen aircraft displays that strayed to close to the crowd line for comfort.

Regards


I think in some respects, the new size limit of 1600px is giving a false impression of what it was actually like on Sunday.
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Re: Season Premiere Airshow Sunday 8 May 2016

Postby Private Custard on Thu 12 May 2016, 4:08 pm

Anyone that wasn't there, can't possibly comment on how bad (or not) it was. Sure, 400mm and cropped (heavily), adequate photos were possible. But I'm not in it for adequate, and I'm not interested in watching capable aircraft and pilots get nobbled badly. There was a reason I adored Old Warden above all other venues. But it's gone now.
Private Custard

Re: Season Premiere Airshow Sunday 8 May 2016

Postby AFC on Thu 12 May 2016, 4:27 pm

Private Custard wrote:Anyone that wasn't there, can't possibly comment on how bad (or not) it was. Sure, 400mm and cropped (heavily), adequate photos were possible. But I'm not in it for adequate, and I'm not interested in watching capable aircraft and pilots get nobbled badly. There was a reason I adored Old Warden above all other venues. But it's gone now.


Where were you standing to have to crop heavily with a 400mm lens?! I was shooting between 300-420mm most of the day (on a crop sensor body at the front row) and have done very little cropping to my shots to get them to fill the frame. The P-40 and the Harvard were useless, but the rest of the aircraft were good. Don't get me wrong I hate these stupid rule changes as much as the next guy, and yes I probably came away with less shots than I would have normally, but it wasn't as bad as I first thought, and it certainly wasn't as bad as some people are making it out to be on here.
The main problem for me was the lack of topsides. Even on saying that I got at least 1 frame filling topside of every aircraft that displayed (except for the P-40 and the Harvard).
This shot was taken at 330mm and I only cropped to centre it in the frame better:
Image

Old Warden used to be something special, and now it isn't (I've been going to Old Warden for at least 8 years now so I know what it used to be like), but its still better than most other airshow venues, so well done to all those involved in the show :clap:
AFC

Re: Season Premiere Airshow Sunday 8 May 2016

Postby Private Custard on Thu 12 May 2016, 5:00 pm

Like I said, photography-wise, it was adequate. But it's lost that certain something that made it special. Now, it's just another airshow that could be better, like all the rest really.

I'm walking away now, before the rest of the season gets me down too much. Maybe someone will come to their senses. Maybe I'll be back in a few years. For now though....nope.
Private Custard

Re: Season Premiere Airshow Sunday 8 May 2016

Postby Tommy on Sat 14 May 2016, 11:39 am

Private Custard wrote:Now, it's just another airshow that could be better, like all the rest really.


Hmm. I disagree. It's still got something far and above the rest, but it speaks volumes of how much of a detrimental impact these new regs will have on your bread and butter Little Gransdens and Throckmortons etc, if this is what it's like at OW. Though, I mean, its still a pretty crap state of affairs however you look at it...
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Re: Season Premiere Airshow Sunday 8 May 2016

Postby PirateTrickster on Mon 16 May 2016, 2:54 pm

There's not even the birds of prey there any more which were a delight to see.


I dunno, a brave Red Kite glided across the airfield a couple of times
PirateTrickster

Re: Season Premiere Airshow Sunday 8 May 2016

Postby Dan O'Hagan on Mon 16 May 2016, 3:38 pm

AFC wrote:
Private Custard wrote:Anyone that wasn't there, can't possibly comment on how bad (or not) it was. Sure, 400mm and cropped (heavily), adequate photos were possible. But I'm not in it for adequate, and I'm not interested in watching capable aircraft and pilots get nobbled badly. There was a reason I adored Old Warden above all other venues. But it's gone now.


Where were you standing to have to crop heavily with a 400mm lens?! I was shooting between 300-420mm most of the day (on a crop sensor body at the front row) and have done very little cropping to my shots to get them to fill the frame. The P-40 and the Harvard were useless, but the rest of the aircraft were good. Don't get me wrong I hate these stupid rule changes as much as the next guy, and yes I probably came away with less shots than I would have normally, but it wasn't as bad as I first thought, and it certainly wasn't as bad as some people are making it out to be on here.
The main problem for me was the lack of topsides. Even on saying that I got at least 1 frame filling topside of every aircraft that displayed (except for the P-40 and the Harvard).
This shot was taken at 330mm and I only cropped to centre it in the frame better:
Image

Old Warden used to be something special, and now it isn't (I've been going to Old Warden for at least 8 years now so I know what it used to be like), but its still better than most other airshow venues, so well done to all those involved in the show :clap:


That Hurricane shot is not representative of the day at all - he made ONE close pass, which you've captured, the rest of the displays, Blenheim aside, weren't giving anything like that, even in my case with 500mm on a x1.6 sensor.
Dan O'Hagan

Re: Season Premiere Airshow Sunday 8 May 2016

Postby Chris G on Mon 16 May 2016, 6:01 pm

Video of the Hurricane display here.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Yr-FR9Hjx8

Make your own mind up, having watched most of the displays from the show the Hurricane seems to of come the closest by some way.
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Re: Season Premiere Airshow Sunday 8 May 2016

Postby Rob Leigh on Mon 16 May 2016, 6:33 pm

"Running in from the left, a 1930s fighter formation" - formation flies in from the right.

"......flown by an Irish pilot, Cobber Kain" - who came from that well known part of Ireland - New Zealand.
Rob Leigh

Re: Season Premiere Airshow Sunday 8 May 2016

Postby Private Custard on Mon 16 May 2016, 8:30 pm

AFC wrote:Where were you standing to have to crop heavily with a 400mm lens?!


Just re-visiting this thread, as I had to reply to this one.

Here's a shot that's so close to yours in terms of angle, I had to do the layer on/off thing in CS6 just to be sure. Even the prop is in an identical position!!

400mm, uncropped. Shot from the crowdline, on the curve.

Image

That's a lot more cropping than I'm used to at OW. If you were at 330mm, that's not just 'cropped to centre'!
Private Custard

Re: Season Premiere Airshow Sunday 8 May 2016

Postby AFC on Mon 16 May 2016, 8:58 pm

Image Image

The original and then the cropped version side by side for comparison. Personally I don't count that as 'heavy' cropping. For me that is just cropping to centre it, I always zoom out a bit just to make sure I get the whole aircraft in, I suppose I'm overly cautious most of the time, so for me that is a small crop.
AFC

Re: Season Premiere Airshow Sunday 8 May 2016

Postby Private Custard on Mon 16 May 2016, 9:14 pm

A quick rough calculation shows that you've had to crop out around 40% of the total possible pixels. That's a massive crop, and not really what I'm used to from OW. And if OW is affected so badly by these new regs, imagine what the venues that were already tricky are going to be like!

To add to the amount of cropping going on, the feel of the place is gone too. That's why I'm out. I'm done with it until someone sees sense. If no-one sees sense, I'm quitting aviation photography for good.........and there may well be a low-mileage 80D on the market by the end of the year!!
Private Custard

Re: Season Premiere Airshow Sunday 8 May 2016

Postby AFC on Mon 16 May 2016, 9:16 pm

Private Custard wrote:A quick rough calculation shows that you've had to crop out around 40% of the total possible pixels.


How did you calculate that?

Edit: I compared the two pixel counts in faststone, and I worked it out to be 45% cropped out (kind of surprising). I concede that is a big crop now, however I did have 90mm more zoom that I could have used, I was just being overly cautious to make sure I didn't clip it. I'm not trying to stick up for the stupid rule changes, I'm just saying it isn't all doom and gloom. Judging by some of the pictures on this forum, great pictures can still be achieved at OW.
Last edited by AFC on Mon 16 May 2016, 9:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
AFC

Re: Season Premiere Airshow Sunday 8 May 2016

Postby Private Custard on Mon 16 May 2016, 9:26 pm

I took your uncropped image, laid the cropped image over the top, which I then resized until the aircraft were the same size. I then cropped out the excess, then flattened, and saved as a jpeg. Just going by these small samples, uncropped had 166500pixels (500x333), and the cropped image had 92877pixels (373x249).

Not an exact science, but close enough.
Private Custard

Re: Season Premiere Airshow Sunday 8 May 2016

Postby pbeardmore on Tue 17 May 2016, 11:56 am

From the hangar 11 Facebook page:

The first few airshows of the new world , post Shoreham era under the new CAA regs have taken place. I opened the first show of the season at Old Warden last Sunday on a super clear day and that went very well. Have to say that I had to alter my display radically to abide by the new regulations and it all seemed a little far away but hey, this is the new world we are living in
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Re: Season Premiere Airshow Sunday 8 May 2016

Postby UK Airshow Review on Wed 18 May 2016, 6:30 pm

"Paradise Lost" - Sam Wise reports from a sun-drenched and sold out Old Warden.

Image Image Image Image Image
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Re: Season Premiere Airshow Sunday 8 May 2016

Postby Blackbird on Thu 19 May 2016, 5:41 am

Excellent report Sam, with good points well made. :clap: :clap:

Andy
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Re: Season Premiere Airshow Sunday 8 May 2016

Postby Comet102 on Fri 20 May 2016, 2:11 pm

Just noticed this news item over at Flyer, possibly the Gazelle pilot regarding the intrusion with the Red Arrows.

Infringe controlled airspace and your pilot’s licence could be provisionally suspended while the incident is investigated, the CAA has announced today.

And it’s already kicked in – one GA pilot has had their licence provisionally suspended following a recent serious incident when a Red Arrows display was severely disrupted because of an infringement.


From http://www.flyer.co.uk/caa-latest-infringe-and-lose-your-licence/
Comet102

Re: Season Premiere Airshow Sunday 8 May 2016

Postby boff180 on Fri 20 May 2016, 3:25 pm

Comet102 wrote:Just noticed this news item over at Flyer, possibly the Gazelle pilot regarding the intrusion with the Red Arrows.

Infringe controlled airspace and your pilot’s licence could be provisionally suspended while the incident is investigated, the CAA has announced today.

And it’s already kicked in – one GA pilot has had their licence provisionally suspended following a recent serious incident when a Red Arrows display was severely disrupted because of an infringement.


From http://www.flyer.co.uk/caa-latest-infringe-and-lose-your-licence/


The CAA finally getting something right!
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Re: Season Premiere Airshow Sunday 8 May 2016

Postby Ewart on Sat 21 May 2016, 8:44 am

I don't tend to post much on here, however I did feel Shuttleworth just has lost some of the passion and excitement.

I've gone through my shots from the other weekend and compared them with ones from last year. All were shot on a EOS 550d with 300mm lens.
I have selected the pictures for the aircraft type as opposed to quality images. All are un-cropped and straight from the camera. I would suggest that I was at a similar distance back from the crowd line on all of these. Looking at some of my previous pictures of the Hurricane display and previous Spitfire displays, pre-2016, I could not fit the entire aircraft into the frame. 2016 lots of blue sky around everything.

2015

ImageShuttleworth 2015 2 by Gaz Ewart, on Flickr

2016

ImageShuttleworth 2016 2 by Gaz Ewart, on Flickr

2015

ImageShuttleworth 2015 1 by Gaz Ewart, on Flickr

2016

ImageShuttleworth 2016 by Gaz Ewart, on Flickr
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Re: Season Premiere Airshow Sunday 8 May 2016

Postby LN Strike Eagle on Sat 21 May 2016, 11:42 am

Two very good examples that highlight just how different it was. No comparison.
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Re: Season Premiere Airshow Sunday 8 May 2016

Postby HuwJHopkins on Sat 21 May 2016, 12:55 pm

Here's another...

Wings & Wheels Show 2015 - about a 25% crop
ImageAvro Nineteen by Huw Hopkins, on Flickr

Season Premiere 2016 - about a 30% crop
ImageAnson by Huw Hopkins, on Flickr
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Re: Season Premiere Airshow Sunday 8 May 2016

Postby AlexC on Sat 21 May 2016, 5:04 pm

LN Strike Eagle wrote:Two very good examples that highlight just how different it was. No comparison.


Yes, that really is a dramatic difference, just ludicrous. Very depressing as I said before.
Pte. Aubrey Gerald Harmer, R. Suss. R. (att. to the Sherwood Foresters) KIA 26/9/1917 Polygon Wood, aged 19, NKG. RIP
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