June 3rd - Fly Navy III

Re: June 3rd - Fly Navy III

Postby Ryan. on Mon 04 Jun 2018, 6:16 am

I honestly didn't notice a difference. The World War One segment were a little higher, one of the Collections pilots, who was chatting as he went back to the control tower noted how much calmer the air was about a hundred or so feet up. I thought that may have explained the slightly high altitude but clearly I'm in the minority of not noticing a difference.

Where could the complaint have been filled from? I did think the nearest housing to Shuttleworth was located behind it.

The show itself I felt was very good. Shame about a few cancellations but overall a good airshow. I agree about having the Fighter Collection base their aircraft at Shuttleworth, really makes the difference. My only nagging point being the commentary, I don't think two commentators really works. If you're going to hire an outside commentator for the show, let them take the reigns.
Ryan.

Re: June 3rd - Fly Navy III

Postby Tbolt on Mon 04 Jun 2018, 7:11 am

I certainly noticed a difference and my photos show it as well. I thought maybe it was just due to the amount of visiting pilots as some of the locals were still flying a reasonable bend. I thought maybe the Lanc was a different pilot to the earlier shows as all three passes were very different to the other shows.

Anyway if someone has complained about noise - if you move next to an airport and complain about the noise then you are an idiot. It's a bit like moving next to a railway line or a night club and complaining about the noise - you new it was already there.
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Re: June 3rd - Fly Navy III

Postby Tbolt on Mon 04 Jun 2018, 7:15 am

Ryan. wrote:I honestly didn't notice a difference. The World War One segment were a little higher, one of the Collections pilots, who was chatting as he went back to the control tower noted how much calmer the air was about a hundred or so feet up. I thought that may have explained the slightly high altitude but clearly I'm in the minority of not noticing a difference.

Where could the complaint have been filled from? I did think the nearest housing to Shuttleworth was located behind it.

The show itself I felt was very good. Shame about a few cancellations but overall a good airshow. I agree about having the Fighter Collection base their aircraft at Shuttleworth, really makes the difference. My only nagging point being the commentary, I don't think two commentators really works. If you're going to hire an outside commentator for the show, let them take the reigns.


If they fly the bend then they come closer to the houses at Ickwell, but I would have thought that most aircraft would be able to turn well before the houses there anyway.
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Re: June 3rd - Fly Navy III

Postby AlexC on Mon 04 Jun 2018, 9:39 am

Tbolt wrote:I certainly noticed a difference and my photos show it as well.


There was a big difference, no doubt about it, the lens that I've been using there for many years was completely inadequate this time. If I hadn't been able to get some reasonable taxiing shots it would have have been almost a wasted journey all the way from the New Forest for me! We need some facts from the Trust, certainly before I go all that way again. Flying 'round the bend' is Shuttleworth's Raison D'etre. (think that's how it's spelt. :question: )
Last edited by AlexC on Mon 04 Jun 2018, 9:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: June 3rd - Fly Navy III

Postby Flare Path on Mon 04 Jun 2018, 9:57 am

I find the reports of the angry neighbour very interesting, given I may have not noticed anything if it hadn't been mentioned on here. But thinking about my experience yesterday, I overheard someone near-me early on say 'They don't seem to be flying their usual pattern.' Not really grasping the full extent of what they meant, I ignored it. Although, looking back on it now there may have been some truth to that.

Aircraft didn't seem to be flying the usual 'bend', but I'm not sure I would have honestly been able to tell the difference had it not been mentioned on here and such is the quality of flying at nearly all the Shuttleworth events anyway.

The opening solo performance from AR501 will be a display that will live long in my memory, it was that good. Pilot really putting it through its paces - not too dissimilar to what you might see in a modern day fighter. Fantastic. Unfortunately, two of the displays I was looking forward to most - Hawker Fury Mk. II and T20 - seemed a fair bit distant. But great to have the Corsair and Wildcat close the show - the former landing on; a real treat.

There's no question cancellations in weeks leading up hurt, not least the disappearance of the Avenger, Skyraider and Bearcat. Sadly, finding the right aircraft to fit the theme seems to be getting harder each year and with the Sea Vixen (which was a big draw at Fly Navy I) no longer flying, and time not being that kind to some of the other Naval types - you wonder whether there's enough to keep it going, given the last 3 Navy events have all been very similar and each year more cancellations.

Good show, but a bit samey as the last two. Zéphyr, Atlantique, Sea King for 2019? :grin: :whistle:
Flare Path

Re: June 3rd - Fly Navy III

Postby Orion on Mon 04 Jun 2018, 10:00 am

Tbolt wrote:...

If they fly the bend then they come closer to the houses at Ickwell, but I would have thought that most aircraft would be able to turn well before the houses there anyway.
It is perfectly possible that the CAA has noticed that the aircraft are flying close to these houses and have told pilots to avoid them. This would be consistent with closing many of the roads to the north of Old Warden.
David Mylchreest
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Re: June 3rd - Fly Navy III

Postby Tbolt on Mon 04 Jun 2018, 10:20 am

Orion wrote:
Tbolt wrote:...

If they fly the bend then they come closer to the houses at Ickwell, but I would have thought that most aircraft would be able to turn well before the houses there anyway.
It is perfectly possible that the CAA has noticed that the aircraft are flying close to these houses and have told pilots to avoid them. This would be consistent with closing many of the roads to the north of Old Warden.


Though that is a possibility, the Lancs first pass yesterday probably bought it right over the houses at Ickwell.
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Re: June 3rd - Fly Navy III

Postby LN Strike Eagle on Mon 04 Jun 2018, 10:36 am

Flare Path wrote:The opening solo performance from AR501 will be a display that will live long in my memory, it was that good. Pilot really putting it through its paces - not too dissimilar to what you might see in a modern day fighter. Fantastic. Unfortunately, two of the displays I was looking forward to most - Hawker Fury Mk. II and T20 - seemed a fair bit distant. But great to have the Corsair and Wildcat close the show - the former landing on; a real treat.

I didn't think much of the Spitfire display at all, personally, but then I saw the debut a fortnight ago flown around the bend properly and in far better light...

I know the pilot is new to the Spitfire, so we'll have to give him time to grow, but it felt to me like a routine of someone that was finding his feet.

I look forward to the day Chris Huckstep gets to fly it - some of his Hurricane performances in recent times have been superbly low and close.
"You really are an oafish philistine at times!"
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Re: June 3rd - Fly Navy III

Postby Tbolt on Mon 04 Jun 2018, 10:48 am

Flare Path wrote:IUnfortunately, two of the displays I was looking forward to most - Hawker Fury Mk. II and T20 - seemed a fair bit distant. But great to have the Corsair and Wildcat close the show - the former landing on; a real treat.



The problem with some of these powerful aircraft they love to show of it's power with lots of climbs and high speed passes, which is nice but it would be good to get a mix with some slower and nearer passes, which in the case of the Corsair at least we got one curve.
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Re: June 3rd - Fly Navy III

Postby Flare Path on Mon 04 Jun 2018, 11:49 am

LN Strike Eagle wrote:
Flare Path wrote:The opening solo performance from AR501 will be a display that will live long in my memory, it was that good. Pilot really putting it through its paces - not too dissimilar to what you might see in a modern day fighter. Fantastic. Unfortunately, two of the displays I was looking forward to most - Hawker Fury Mk. II and T20 - seemed a fair bit distant. But great to have the Corsair and Wildcat close the show - the former landing on; a real treat.

I didn't think much of the Spitfire display at all, personally, but then I saw the debut a fortnight ago flown around the bend properly and in far better light...

I know the pilot is new to the Spitfire, so we'll have to give him time to grow, but it felt to me like a routine of someone that was finding his feet.

I look forward to the day Chris Huckstep gets to fly it - some of his Hurricane performances in recent times have been superbly low and close.


I didn't attend the Evening event, but I heard a very good report, regarding his display during that time. However, yesterday a non-airshow mate of mine attended with me and he immediately let me know how impressed he was with the Spitfire display - I agreed.

The commentator mentioned the name of the new pilot, but I couldn't pick it up clearly? From my experience, he certainly doesn't fly it as sedate as some of the other pilots at OW. :grin:
Flare Path

Re: June 3rd - Fly Navy III

Postby Dan O'Hagan on Mon 04 Jun 2018, 12:25 pm

Flare Path wrote:
LN Strike Eagle wrote:
Flare Path wrote:The opening solo performance from AR501 will be a display that will live long in my memory, it was that good. Pilot really putting it through its paces - not too dissimilar to what you might see in a modern day fighter. Fantastic. Unfortunately, two of the displays I was looking forward to most - Hawker Fury Mk. II and T20 - seemed a fair bit distant. But great to have the Corsair and Wildcat close the show - the former landing on; a real treat.

I didn't think much of the Spitfire display at all, personally, but then I saw the debut a fortnight ago flown around the bend properly and in far better light...

I know the pilot is new to the Spitfire, so we'll have to give him time to grow, but it felt to me like a routine of someone that was finding his feet.

I look forward to the day Chris Huckstep gets to fly it - some of his Hurricane performances in recent times have been superbly low and close.


I didn't attend the Evening event, but I heard a very good report, regarding his display during that time. However, yesterday a non-airshow mate of mine attended with me and he immediately let me know how impressed he was with the Spitfire display - I agreed.

The commentator mentioned the name of the new pilot, but I couldn't pick it up clearly? From my experience, he certainly doesn't fly it as sedate as some of the other pilots at OW. :grin:


Jim Schofield.

Not a patch on Stu Goldspink a fortnight earlier. Aeros are tolerable, just so long as a few photographer-friendly passes are thrown in to keep everyone happy.

The "not naming the pilot until they're safely on the ground" really needs to stop already. The regulars who go will recognise the pilot when they see them strapping-in. Do we really want a situation where if, God forbid, the worst happened, social media is full of "it was pilot X, Y or maybe Z" flying it? That's three sets of loved-ones who'd be beside themselves waiting for news. We live in an age where news travels very quickly, the spread of rumour and fake news is far more damaging and harmful than the spread of accurate information.

What next, Formula One teams hiding the identity of their drivers until the season's over?
Dan O'Hagan

Re: June 3rd - Fly Navy III

Postby Orion on Mon 04 Jun 2018, 12:51 pm

Tbolt wrote:
Orion wrote:
Tbolt wrote:...

If they fly the bend then they come closer to the houses at Ickwell, but I would have thought that most aircraft would be able to turn well before the houses there anyway.
It is perfectly possible that the CAA has noticed that the aircraft are flying close to these houses and have told pilots to avoid them. This would be consistent with closing many of the roads to the north of Old Warden.


Though that is a possibility, the Lancs first pass yesterday probably bought it right over the houses at Ickwell.
Just some further thinks on this matter.
I have been going to Old Warden since the mid 1980s and ‘bendy’ displays, although welcomed have been unusual until quite recently. Most topside shots have been of aircraft with the controls crossed. This year ‘bendy’ displays seem to have become the new normal with concomitant disturbance to local residents. It may well be that the locals feel that the Shuttleworth has stopped being a good neighbour and needed a reminder.
Just a thought!
David Mylchreest
Orion

Re: June 3rd - Fly Navy III

Postby Tbolt on Mon 04 Jun 2018, 12:58 pm

Dan O'Hagan wrote:The "not naming the pilot until they're safely on the ground" really needs to stop already. The regulars who go will recognise the pilot when they see them strapping-in. Do we really want a situation where if, God forbid, the worst happened, social media is full of "it was pilot X, Y or maybe Z" flying it? That's three sets of loved-ones who'd be beside themselves waiting for news. We live in an age where news travels very quickly, the spread of rumour and fake news is far more damaging and harmful than the spread of accurate information.

What next, Formula One teams hiding the identity of their drivers until the season's over?


Agree, it's silly, as those that don't even recognise the pilot, it's written right there on there flight suits!
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Tbolt

Re: June 3rd - Fly Navy III

Postby capercaillie on Mon 04 Jun 2018, 1:01 pm

Orion wrote:
Tbolt wrote:
Orion wrote:
Tbolt wrote:...

If they fly the bend then they come closer to the houses at Ickwell, but I would have thought that most aircraft would be able to turn well before the houses there anyway.
It is perfectly possible that the CAA has noticed that the aircraft are flying close to these houses and have told pilots to avoid them. This would be consistent with closing many of the roads to the north of Old Warden.


Though that is a possibility, the Lancs first pass yesterday probably bought it right over the houses at Ickwell.
Just some further thinks on this matter.
I have been going to Old Warden since the mid 1980s and ‘bendy’ displays, although welcomed have been unusual until quite recently. Most topside shots have been of aircraft with the controls crossed. This year ‘bendy’ displays seem to have become the new normal with concomitant disturbance to local residents. It may well be that the locals feel that the Shuttleworth has stopped being a good neighbour and needed a reminder.
Just a thought!


Say what? Bendy displays? Controls crossed? :dunno:

Displays have always included turns around the dog leg at Old Warden, even looking back to vintage Aircraft Illustrateds from days of yore and rose tinted specs you'll find them.

Yesterday was pretty disappointing, having watched the Anson close going around the corner for years to see it distant and banking away all the time wearing its new colours, the Lancaster pulling out of the full curve having not been able to make it to the previous events and even the WWI stalwarts drifting around high and almost irrelevant of entertaining. I was left pondering why the F2b even flew?
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Re: June 3rd - Fly Navy III

Postby Dan O'Hagan on Mon 04 Jun 2018, 1:09 pm

In fairness, Orion once claimed he had to cower in fear at a Sea Vixen display at Old Warden, so I think we can take his views with a pinch of the salty stuff...
Dan O'Hagan

Re: June 3rd - Fly Navy III

Postby SuffolkBlue on Mon 04 Jun 2018, 1:14 pm

Flare Path wrote: Aircraft didn't seem to be flying the usual 'bend', but I'm not sure I would have honestly been able to tell the difference had it not been mentioned on here and such is the quality of flying at nearly all the Shuttleworth events anyway.



I have to agree with this statement. I came way yesterday not thinking any different from the recent Evening Show in regards to display lines etc (i couldn't make the Season Premiere), but having read the comments on here, i can't think of too many occasions where the bend was put to good use. Hopefully this is just a temporary blip and normal service will be resumed soon.

The civil parish covering the villages within close proximity of the airfield (Ickwell, Upper Caldecote & Northill) has a population of 2,270 (granted from the 2011 census), so you're always going to get a grumpy neighbor out of a number like that. Hopefully the Trust can simply close the complaint by saying that we have only had X number of complaints since a certain date, which is only X % of the local population. Whether or not it's as simple as that is another matter though!

In regards to the airshow itself, I've been to the 3 FlyNavy events and I have enjoyed each one, but maybe as much as possible has been squeezed out of the theme and a new idea can be put in it's place for next year. A transporter theme comes to mind.....
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Re: June 3rd - Fly Navy III

Postby Tbolt on Mon 04 Jun 2018, 1:33 pm

SuffolkBlue wrote:
Flare Path wrote: Aircraft didn't seem to be flying the usual 'bend', but I'm not sure I would have honestly been able to tell the difference had it not been mentioned on here and such is the quality of flying at nearly all the Shuttleworth events anyway.



I have to agree with this statement. I came way yesterday not thinking any different from the recent Evening Show in regards to display lines etc (i couldn't make the Season Premiere), but having read the comments on here, i can't think of too many occasions where the bend was put to good use. Hopefully this is just a temporary blip and normal service will be resumed soon.

The civil parish covering the villages within close proximity of the airfield (Ickwell, Upper Caldecote & Northill) has a population of 2,270 (granted from the 2011 census), so you're always going to get a grumpy neighbor out of a number like that. Hopefully the Trust can simply close the complaint by saying that we have only had X number of complaints since a certain date, which is only X % of the local population. Whether or not it's as simple as that is another matter though!

In regards to the airshow itself, I've been to the 3 FlyNavy events and I have enjoyed each one, but maybe as much as possible has been squeezed out of the theme and a new idea can be put in it's place for next year. A transporter theme comes to mind.....


Well it appears to be only rumour there's been a complaint at the moment. You know how it start, someone says they wonder if there has been a complain and by the time a few people have heard that, it becomes someone has made a complain. By the time it's been around enough it will be someone has complained that the gliders are making too much noise!
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Tbolt

Re: June 3rd - Fly Navy III

Postby Ryan. on Mon 04 Jun 2018, 2:57 pm

Wonder if Shuttleworth will make a statement regarding these points? The rumour mill will be in overdrive until it does but I can't really see them making a public statement.
Ryan.

Re: June 3rd - Fly Navy III

Postby Ryan. on Mon 04 Jun 2018, 2:58 pm

Tbolt wrote:
Ryan. wrote:I honestly didn't notice a difference. The World War One segment were a little higher, one of the Collections pilots, who was chatting as he went back to the control tower noted how much calmer the air was about a hundred or so feet up. I thought that may have explained the slightly high altitude but clearly I'm in the minority of not noticing a difference.

Where could the complaint have been filled from? I did think the nearest housing to Shuttleworth was located behind it.


If they fly the bend then they come closer to the houses at Ickwell, but I would have thought that most aircraft would be able to turn well before the houses there anyway.


Thankyou. I thought it would be but like you said, surely be avoidable.
Ryan.

Re: June 3rd - Fly Navy III

Postby Orion on Mon 04 Jun 2018, 3:04 pm

Dan O'Hagan wrote:In fairness, Orion once claimed he had to cower in fear at a Sea Vixen display at Old Warden, so I think we can take his views with a pinch of the salty stuff...
This is my video of the Shoreham event https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YJXfYtoBZs4
Last edited by Orion on Mon 04 Jun 2018, 3:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
David Mylchreest
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Re: June 3rd - Fly Navy III

Postby UKTopgun on Mon 04 Jun 2018, 3:04 pm

I thought they said it was Carl Schofield in the Spitfire but may be wrong.

When they said they would be doing a silence for London Bridge attack at 2.30 I went over and mentioned it was in fact 4.30. Would have been unfortunate if they had got wrong time for that, wonder where they got 2.30 from?

Also, Ben's co commentator was not great, Ben should have done it all IMHO.
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Re: June 3rd - Fly Navy III

Postby Dan O'Hagan on Mon 04 Jun 2018, 3:23 pm

Ryan. wrote:Wonder if Shuttleworth will make a statement regarding these points? The rumour mill will be in overdrive until it does but I can't really see them making a public statement.


I think that given the popularity of shows there now, and what people have come to expect from displays at Old Warden, customers have a right to know if the curved passes "round the bend" that made displays there so unique are now forbidden.

Shuttleworth monitor these forums, so I'd like to think a public statement will be forthcoming from them.
Dan O'Hagan

Re: June 3rd - Fly Navy III

Postby LN Strike Eagle on Mon 04 Jun 2018, 3:32 pm

Orion wrote:
Dan O'Hagan wrote:In fairness, Orion once claimed he had to cower in fear at a Sea Vixen display at Old Warden, so I think we can take his views with a pinch of the salty stuff...
This is my video of the Shoreham event https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YJXfYtoBZs4

Where's the scary part?
"You really are an oafish philistine at times!"
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Re: June 3rd - Fly Navy III

Postby LN Strike Eagle on Mon 04 Jun 2018, 3:33 pm

UKTopgun wrote:I thought they said it was Carl Schofield in the Spitfire but may be wrong.

Jim Schofield.
"You really are an oafish philistine at times!"
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LN Strike Eagle
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Re: June 3rd - Fly Navy III

Postby MiG_Eater on Mon 04 Jun 2018, 3:38 pm

Orion wrote:
Dan O'Hagan wrote:In fairness, Orion once claimed he had to cower in fear at a Sea Vixen display at Old Warden, so I think we can take his views with a pinch of the salty stuff...
This is my video of the Shoreham event https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YJXfYtoBZs4


What are we supposed to be getting from this Orion? :question:
MiG_Eater

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