June 3rd - Fly Navy III

Re: June 3rd - Fly Navy III

Postby LN Strike Eagle on Mon 04 Jun 2018, 3:58 pm

MiG_Eater wrote:
Orion wrote:
Dan O'Hagan wrote:In fairness, Orion once claimed he had to cower in fear at a Sea Vixen display at Old Warden, so I think we can take his views with a pinch of the salty stuff...
This is my video of the Shoreham event https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YJXfYtoBZs4


What are we supposed to be getting from this Orion? :question:

If you look at the Fly Navy thread from 2016 (linked below), he made claims that the Sea Vixen "flew low over the crowd" (direct quote).

Nobody, including Orion himself, made any mention of any such incident in the Shoreham 2011 thread.

http://forums.airshows.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=70656&p=727106&hilit=+sea+vixen#p727112
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Re: June 3rd - Fly Navy III

Postby Tbolt on Mon 04 Jun 2018, 4:08 pm

Dan O'Hagan wrote:
Ryan. wrote:Wonder if Shuttleworth will make a statement regarding these points? The rumour mill will be in overdrive until it does but I can't really see them making a public statement.


I think that given the popularity of shows there now, and what people have come to expect from displays at Old Warden, customers have a right to know if the curved passes "round the bend" that made displays there so unique are now forbidden.

Shuttleworth monitor these forums, so I'd like to think a public statement will be forthcoming from them.


I can't see how it is forbidden as several aircraft yesterday flew a curve.
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Re: June 3rd - Fly Navy III

Postby Dan O'Hagan on Mon 04 Jun 2018, 4:10 pm

Tbolt wrote:
Dan O'Hagan wrote:
Ryan. wrote:Wonder if Shuttleworth will make a statement regarding these points? The rumour mill will be in overdrive until it does but I can't really see them making a public statement.


I think that given the popularity of shows there now, and what people have come to expect from displays at Old Warden, customers have a right to know if the curved passes "round the bend" that made displays there so unique are now forbidden.

Shuttleworth monitor these forums, so I'd like to think a public statement will be forthcoming from them.


I can't see how it is forbidden as several aircraft yesterday flew a curve.


Not to the extent as at previous shows, and nearly always climbing away - the Anson when breaking from formation with the Rapide was one which sticks in my mind. Not much else did?
Dan O'Hagan

Re: June 3rd - Fly Navy III

Postby Orion on Mon 04 Jun 2018, 4:12 pm

LN Strike Eagle wrote:
MiG_Eater wrote:
Orion wrote:
Dan O'Hagan wrote:In fairness, Orion once claimed he had to cower in fear at a Sea Vixen display at Old Warden, so I think we can take his views with a pinch of the salty stuff...
This is my video of the Shoreham event https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YJXfYtoBZs4


What are we supposed to be getting from this Orion? :question:

If you look at the Fly Navy thread from 2016 (linked below), he made claims that the Sea Vixen "flew low over the crowd" (direct quote).

Nobody, including Orion himself, made any mention of any such incident in the Shoreham 2011 thread.

http://forums.airshows.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=70656&p=727106&hilit=+sea+vixen#p727112
It is true that I didn't make a reference to it at the time because I thought it best just to show the film and keep quiet about my concerns, but I made a note to myself that I wouldn't attend another Shoreham Show. At the time of filming I was several hundred yards behind the crowd line and also behind a marque which might add a perspective on just how close the Sea Vixen was.

In the Fly Navy thread I alluded to the concerns I had in 2011, because I have a great affection for the Shuttleworth and really didn't want my concerns re the Shoreham display to affect the Collection. Naive, yes I think so, but Dan O'Hagan keeps on and on about it, so I thought I ought to show the video, simply to protect myself against the constant sniping that comes from that profoundly unpleasant man.
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Re: June 3rd - Fly Navy III

Postby LN Strike Eagle on Mon 04 Jun 2018, 4:18 pm

Orion wrote:It is true that I didn't make a reference to it at the time because I thought it best just to show the film and keep quiet about my concerns, but I made a note to myself that I wouldn't attend another Shoreham Show. At the time of filming I was several hundred yards behind the crowd line and also behind a marque which might add a perspective on just how close the Sea Vixen was.

Nobody else on this forum thought it noteworthy enough to mention either - there's nothing at all other than praise for the Sea Vixen display in the Shoreham thread from 2011. The first I heard of it was two years ago when you first made the claim.

The footage doesn't show anything that would alarm me. The presence of a tent between you and the subject is just a matter of perspective - I've walked around airshow grounds myself during flying displays and always note that the flying seems very close to the crowd when there are cars, people and objects between you and the flying display vs being right at the front row. It's an optical illusion, much the same way that the moon appears bigger on the horizon (and therefore near to objects like trees, bulidings etc) than it does when it's alone high in the sky, despite being exactly the same size.
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Re: June 3rd - Fly Navy III

Postby Dan O'Hagan on Mon 04 Jun 2018, 4:20 pm

Personal insults aside, do tell what alarmed you so about that Sea Vixen display? From the video you posted I can see only superb, engaging, low-level airshow flying well within the 2011 rules, and something for everyone - aerobatics and a couple of brilliant topside passes? Nothing to be in the least bit frightened of!
Dan O'Hagan

Re: June 3rd - Fly Navy III

Postby Tbolt on Mon 04 Jun 2018, 4:27 pm

Dan O'Hagan wrote:
Tbolt wrote:
Dan O'Hagan wrote:
Ryan. wrote:Wonder if Shuttleworth will make a statement regarding these points? The rumour mill will be in overdrive until it does but I can't really see them making a public statement.


I think that given the popularity of shows there now, and what people have come to expect from displays at Old Warden, customers have a right to know if the curved passes "round the bend" that made displays there so unique are now forbidden.

Shuttleworth monitor these forums, so I'd like to think a public statement will be forthcoming from them.


I can't see how it is forbidden as several aircraft yesterday flew a curve.


Not to the extent as at previous shows, and nearly always climbing away - the Anson when breaking from formation with the Rapide was one which sticks in my mind. Not much else did?


Corsair, Wildcat, Lysander, Moth, Demon and Nimrod all flew pretty standard curves in my opinion.
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Re: June 3rd - Fly Navy III

Postby AlexC on Mon 04 Jun 2018, 5:12 pm

Dan O'Hagan wrote:The "not naming the pilot until they're safely on the ground" really needs to stop already.


Have to say that I thought was a very strange thing for him to have said, really can't understand it at all.
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Re: June 3rd - Fly Navy III

Postby Flare Path on Mon 04 Jun 2018, 5:40 pm

Dan O'Hagan wrote:In fairness, Orion once claimed he had to cower in fear at a Sea Vixen display at Old Warden, so I think we can take his views with a pinch of the salty stuff...


:lol: :up:
Flare Path

Re: June 3rd - Fly Navy III

Postby vulcanshammer on Mon 04 Jun 2018, 6:05 pm

Watching that footage of the Sea Vixen just makes me more hopeful that they will pull off a miracle and get her flying again.
The sooner the world runs out of cotton wool the better
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Re: June 3rd - Fly Navy III

Postby Wissam24 on Mon 04 Jun 2018, 6:34 pm

For what it's worth, everyone around me, at about the first link in the fence, commented that they weren't using the bend as they usually do.
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Re: June 3rd - Fly Navy III

Postby danspuggti on Mon 04 Jun 2018, 6:37 pm

Wissam24 wrote:For what it's worth, everyone around me, at about the first link in the fence, commented that they weren't using the bend as they usually do.


I was sat by my car opposite the wasp/Gazelles and as soon as it became apparent they weren't using the bend like usual, people from by the tower were moving down the fence into the less crowded areas.
Same old sh*t.............just happening on a different day!!!
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Re: June 3rd - Fly Navy III

Postby southyorkshireman on Mon 04 Jun 2018, 7:18 pm

I thought things certainly seemed higher left 'bendy' but we arrived a bit later and were nearer the corporate tent than we usually are so I can't say what it's normally like there. Decided as it was Shuttleworth I'd 'only' need the 400mm but the 600mm may have been the better bet for some of the acts yesterday.

Were the 504s parked in front of the tent? Didn't go and investigate but from where we were it looked like they weren't easily viewable? Sure Price Michael of Kent enjoyed the view though..

Generally we enjoyed the show, but as it was our 5 month old daughter's first show the slightly more sedate display was a plus (we decided not to take her to the May show when the Typhoon appeared on the list)
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Re: June 3rd - Fly Navy III

Postby hmeasures on Mon 04 Jun 2018, 7:42 pm

I really enjoyed the show yesterday, admittedly I don't think it was a classic such as the June evening show last year, but certainly one of the more memorable shows there. 4 visiting big pistons, 2 of which landing on was awesome. I really enjoyed Chris Gotke's routine in the RNHF Sea Fury, love the big, smooth aerobatic figures and the sound of a Centaurus being put through it's paces. Nice topside/wing wave on departure, too. Pete Kynsey in the Corsair was also great (and probably the reason he was on quite early in the Fury, poor bloke can't be in two places at once!), it's always a treat to see TFC away from Duxford, and a topside from both the Corsair and Wildcat to boot.

I really don't get everyone being so hung up over the big warbirds not flying near constant topsides. One or two, as flown yesterday is all that's needed in my opinion - if you mess the photo up, tough! Not the pilots fault you missed it. The aeros also offer different photo opportunities, like, say, a Sea Fury with a wisp of wingtip vortices:

ImageSea Fury T.20 by Harry Measures, on Flickr
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Re: June 3rd - Fly Navy III

Postby phreakf4 on Mon 04 Jun 2018, 8:02 pm

I attended this show and enjoyed it immensely, as did my son. We were sited on the crowd line just right of the enclosure with the Wildcat in front of us and the two 504s just to our right.

To me the only sour note of the whole day was the fact that the only people near us who continued to talk during the one minute silence were some of the "great and good" in the VIP enclosure, who were finally told to (quote) "shut the **** up"(unquote) by a steward....even the majority of the children nearby observed the silence.
nothing is confirmed at a show until it's u/c hits the tarmac or it's running in for it's display.....
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Re: June 3rd - Fly Navy III

Postby pako-2008 on Mon 04 Jun 2018, 8:58 pm

Tbolt wrote:Corsair, Wildcat, Lysander, Moth, Demon and Nimrod all flew pretty standard curves in my opinion.

They flew a nice sweeping curve along the 'A' axis yes, but upon reaching the dog leg they bugged out following runway heading (when approaching crowd right). What usually occurs is they continue to follow the dog leg round past the tower bringing them up towards the right of the hangars.

Reverse the situation from crowd left and aircraft taking the dog leg brings them closer to the crowd line, however you could evidently see the approach was again along runway heading. Due to this it felt to me like the display axis was further back than usual, over or behind the tree line in many cases. I think the only memorable exceptions were the Rapide and the Lanc.

That said, for whatever reason this all occurred I probably enjoyed the show more appreciating the flying for what it was instead of worrying about photography. The Spitfire/RNHF Sea Fury and Corsair were particular highlights just watching on.
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Re: June 3rd - Fly Navy III

Postby FERG on Mon 04 Jun 2018, 9:40 pm

Definitely a less bendy show and entirely agree with the comment about Ben's co-commentator. The gentleman had a very bossy and irritating manner and added nothing other than to allow Ben to have the odd slurp of water and to take a few snaps. Ben's perfectly capable of covering an OW show on his own. IMHO his delivery is a great mix of the informative and the sympathetic and his foreign accents are to die for !!.
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Re: June 3rd - Fly Navy III

Postby ted633 on Mon 04 Jun 2018, 10:07 pm

Talking of the commentary, the other commentator asked the question of 'what relates the Chipmunk with Concorde' (or something like that) with the promise of giving the answer later. No answer came. This also happened at the Season Premiere. Is there a link, or is there some inside joke / pun that has gone completely over my head?!
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Re: June 3rd - Fly Navy III

Postby danspuggti on Mon 04 Jun 2018, 10:12 pm

When I first heard Ben’s co-commentator I thought it was Boycie from Only Fools & Horses :lmao:
Same old sh*t.............just happening on a different day!!!
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Re: June 3rd - Fly Navy III

Postby st24 on Mon 04 Jun 2018, 10:28 pm

FERG wrote:Definitely a less bendy show and entirely agree with the comment about Ben's co-commentator. The gentleman had a very bossy and irritating manner and added nothing other than to allow Ben to have the odd slurp of water and to take a few snaps. Ben's perfectly capable of covering an OW show on his own. IMHO his delivery is a great mix of the informative and the sympathetic and his foreign accents are to die for !!.

Nah, the Gazelles commentator needs to do it full time. Hilarious without knowing it.. A f...f...f... Flying drumstick... Wonderful stuff! :lmao:
You caaan't trust the system... Maaan!
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Re: June 3rd - Fly Navy III

Postby Wissam24 on Tue 05 Jun 2018, 8:30 am

FERG wrote:Definitely a less bendy show and entirely agree with the comment about Ben's co-commentator. The gentleman had a very bossy and irritating manner and added nothing other than to allow Ben to have the odd slurp of water and to take a few snaps. Ben's perfectly capable of covering an OW show on his own. IMHO his delivery is a great mix of the informative and the sympathetic and his foreign accents are to die for !!.


I did think on a couple of occasions he interjected simply to repeat something Dunnell had just said...
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Re: June 3rd - Fly Navy III

Postby Ryan. on Tue 05 Jun 2018, 11:09 am

Wissam24 wrote:
FERG wrote:Definitely a less bendy show and entirely agree with the comment about Ben's co-commentator. The gentleman had a very bossy and irritating manner and added nothing other than to allow Ben to have the odd slurp of water and to take a few snaps. Ben's perfectly capable of covering an OW show on his own. IMHO his delivery is a great mix of the informative and the sympathetic and his foreign accents are to die for !!.


I did think on a couple of occasions he interjected simply to repeat something Dunnell had just said...


Must have been quite irriting. Shame, as I've enjoyed Ben's commentary on both Fly Navy events before. This time, he seemed to have to struggle to get a word in edgeways.
Ryan.

Re: June 3rd - Fly Navy III

Postby Tbolt on Tue 05 Jun 2018, 12:23 pm

pako-2008 wrote:
Tbolt wrote:Corsair, Wildcat, Lysander, Moth, Demon and Nimrod all flew pretty standard curves in my opinion.

They flew a nice sweeping curve along the 'A' axis yes, but upon reaching the dog leg they bugged out following runway heading (when approaching crowd right). What usually occurs is they continue to follow the dog leg round past the tower bringing them up towards the right of the hangars.

Reverse the situation from crowd left and aircraft taking the dog leg brings them closer to the crowd line, however you could evidently see the approach was again along runway heading. Due to this it felt to me like the display axis was further back than usual, over or behind the tree line in many cases. I think the only memorable exceptions were the Rapide and the Lanc.

That said, for whatever reason this all occurred I probably enjoyed the show more appreciating the flying for what it was instead of worrying about photography. The Spitfire/RNHF Sea Fury and Corsair were particular highlights just watching on.


OK wasn’t overly obvious from where I was, but of course not every aircraft that flew the bend previously did it as tight and as long as we like and some of those aircraft I mention were visitors so they don’t always fly the perfect bend but we’re still good enough to get good pictures from where I was.
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Re: June 3rd - Fly Navy III

Postby LN Strike Eagle on Tue 05 Jun 2018, 12:29 pm

Tbolt wrote:OK wasn’t overly obvious from where I was, but of course not every aircraft that flew the bend previously did it as tight and as long as we like and some of those aircraft I mention were visitors so they don’t always fly the perfect bend but we’re still good enough to get good pictures from where I was.

I'm a little confused by your last few posts as you began this discussion with the following statement...

Tbolt wrote:I certainly noticed a difference and my photos show it as well. I thought maybe it was just due to the amount of visiting pilots as some of the locals were still flying a reasonable bend. I thought maybe the Lanc was a different pilot to the earlier shows as all three passes were very different to the other shows.

You said it yourself when you mentioned the Lancaster. A fortnight ago the opening pass was pulled right round beyond the control tower. On Sunday they levelled off over the runway heading.
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Re: June 3rd - Fly Navy III

Postby MiG_Eater on Tue 05 Jun 2018, 1:36 pm

Orion wrote:
LN Strike Eagle wrote:
MiG_Eater wrote:
Orion wrote:
Dan O'Hagan wrote:In fairness, Orion once claimed he had to cower in fear at a Sea Vixen display at Old Warden, so I think we can take his views with a pinch of the salty stuff...
This is my video of the Shoreham event https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YJXfYtoBZs4


What are we supposed to be getting from this Orion? :question:

If you look at the Fly Navy thread from 2016 (linked below), he made claims that the Sea Vixen "flew low over the crowd" (direct quote).

Nobody, including Orion himself, made any mention of any such incident in the Shoreham 2011 thread.

http://forums.airshows.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=70656&p=727106&hilit=+sea+vixen#p727112
It is true that I didn't make a reference to it at the time because I thought it best just to show the film and keep quiet about my concerns, but I made a note to myself that I wouldn't attend another Shoreham Show. At the time of filming I was several hundred yards behind the crowd line and also behind a marque which might add a perspective on just how close the Sea Vixen was.

In the Fly Navy thread I alluded to the concerns I had in 2011, because I have a great affection for the Shuttleworth and really didn't want my concerns re the Shoreham display to affect the Collection. Naive, yes I think so, but Dan O'Hagan keeps on and on about it, so I thought I ought to show the video, simply to protect myself against the constant sniping that comes from that profoundly unpleasant man.


Sorry to drag this out of the thread again but, Orion - I strongly believe you have no idea what constitutes dangerous flying. The Sea Vixen display you showed looks safe, impressive and entertaining. To insinuate this display (and the pilot!) were dangerous is insulting at best.

Since the Shoreham pilot-error incident we have lost a huge part of what makes being an aviation enthusiast in the UK fun. Our classic jet scene has been virtually eliminated and all because of some extra regulation that totally and utterly misses the point. The reason that certain people feel that classic jets are dangerous is because of thoughtless posts like yours.

I don't mean for this to be personal, but I love seeing classic jets - and more bashing of excellent flying like the type shown in your video will just hammer further nails into the coffin.
MiG_Eater

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