Information regarding old Binbrook decoys?

[twamoran]

Hi everyone,

I'm working on a diorama inspired by the old decoy line at RAF Binbrook during the 1980s. From what I can gather from online research (and hazy memories!), there were 8 main decoys - five T5s, two F.1As and an F3 - sitting at the end of the disused runway near Crash Gate 3. Those Lightnings can be seen in this photo by Mike Hopwood: http://www.flickr.com/photos/hoppieno3/5405726310/

These are the ones I remember seeing when I visited Binbrook (albeit their positions seemed to change somewhat?). I wondered if anyone could point me in the direction of close-up photos of these jets (particularly the single seaters, as there are several photos of the T5s up close online)?

Also, I've found another photo of disused Lightnings from around the same time period on the other disused runway nearby (west side of base), again including two F.1As, T5s and several (I think) F3s. Some of these may have been the same aircraft, others perhaps not? But they are all almost certainly Lightnings that were withdrawn from use prior to the last operational F6s being retired in 1988. All are camouflaged and stand on their wheels. I have a feeling this is either the main scrap line or the dump, although none have been fired and many remain almost entirely intact?

If anyone could advise or help me find some close-up photos of these old Lightnings I would be deeply appreciative!

Best wishes,

Tom

[Henk]

Took these in May 1988 - close ups are XR747 and XS932.

[NAM Updater]

It might be worthwhile contacting Newark's Curator as I believe that XS417 was briefly amongst these airframes, before it was moved to Newark - we may have archive photos taken by the guys who went on site to move the aircraft in the summer of 1988.

The current refurbishment of XS417 is covered photographically in here!

[STCAAMEkid]

Took these in May 1988 - close ups are XR747 and XS932.

Taking Henk's 1st image, and checking out the colours/ markings etc, the a/c from left to right after XR747 are I believe;

XS936 light grey (was AS, Orange rectangular zap with black text & border in front of starboard wing LE says "Property of the Royal Danish Air Force"), was also latterly was one of a few (XR727 - went to BDRF Germany/ XR763 - crashed Cyprus, so no danger of mis identification !) that still had black framed canopy despite the light grey colour scheme.
XS935 light grey - (was AK) - looks to have had the special commemorative red "5" with maple leaf in the 5 on a white disc painted out on the vertical tailplane - this was the only light grey one with these markings.
XS897 grey/ green camo (was AC, and looks to have had its special commemorative 5 Squadron red nose bars and larger old stylee red/ white/ blue national markings painted out).

The above are some of the Rossington airframes, so might expect a x-check against the others to throw up some further identities (eg XS932 as already identified). I would expect the black tailed one on the RHS would be XR725, before Charles Ross saved it.

Around Easter '88 I noted the following F6 aircraft in the same main scrap line, but can't confirm whether they're present in these pictures yet - I need to take a closer look ! XR726 light grey, XS927 grey/ green camo, XS919 dark grey, XS933 dark grey/ light grey, all with their markings painted out/ taped over.

I hope this helps,
Phil

[NAM Updater]

I've added the only XS417 move photograph I have on my PC to the front of the Lightning album in this gallery http://www.newarkairmuseum.org/gallery.php sorry that I don't have an image hosting account!

[twamoran]

Hi everyone, thanks massively for your responses and information. I apologize for the delay writing back, I've been stuck on a plane for the last two days - sadly nothing as fun as a Lightning

Henk - many thanks for the photos from May 1988. It's a sad sight seeing the end of the F6s at Binbrook, although great that several of these were saved and definitely some great inspiration for modelling!

NAM Updater - thanks very much for the info and I'll definitely contact Newark's Curator. Thanks too for the excellent series of images chronicling the restoration of XS417 - great to see and good that she's in such good hands. I'm going to try and get down to Newark in the coming couple of months!

Phil (STCAAMEkid) - that's terrific info, thanks massively for serials and info on some of the identifying features left on these airframes. You've definitely given me some good pointers to get researching! It's nice to see XS897 fully restored, even if it isn't in that nice commemorative livery that I always rather liked. It's interesting - I remember seeing XS897 in a barn at Firbeck (former headquarters of South Yorkshire Aviation Museum) immediately after it was saved from Rossington at the 11th hour. I was quite young at the time but clearly remember the commemorative red, white and blue roundels, faded but definitely present. For that reason I wonder if the roundels had been taped over rather than painted out?

This is probably a daft question, but what was the reason for painting out all identifying markings? Was it simply to illustrate the fact that the airframes were no longer in RAF service, or was it a requirement of moving them to civilian scrap yards/museums/gardens etc?

Once again, thanks massively to you all for this great information!

[F-86]

Seen these?

http://track-days.co.uk/gassing/topic.a ... ars+please!

[twamoran]

Seen these?

http://track-days.co.uk/gassing/topic.a ... ars+please!

Thanks F-86! Seen those ones before and definitely a good resource. Any idea of the identify of the all grey Lightning (F3?) in the third pic down on left side (see here: http://thumbsnap.com/Xv0F4gCX)?

Thanks again!

[STCAAMEkid]

TWA - Cross referencing this picture with pictures in one of Ian Black's books and my own pictures + notes, I believe the grey one on its back is F6 XR726. This was one of the earlier F6s to get the chop, and was latterly DF with the LTF. It's without its large ventral tank and has a red ballast unit replacing the missile pack, to ensure it stayed tail-up when upright.
Phil

[STCAAMEkid]

TWA - Cross referencing this picture with pictures in one of Ian Black's books and my own pictures + notes, I believe the grey one on its back is F6 XR726. This was one of the earlier F6s to get the chop, and was latterly DF with the LTF. It's without its large ventral tank and has a red ballast unit replacing the missile pack, to ensure it stayed tail-up when upright.
Phil

Rewind ......I think it's XR752, again an F6, but was BL b4 it went to the great melting pot in the sky - it was scrapped at Binbrook. XR726 wasn't scrapped at Binbrook - it went to Rossington.
Sorry for any confusion caused,
Phil

[twamoran]

TWA - Cross referencing this picture with pictures in one of Ian Black's books and my own pictures + notes, I believe the grey one on its back is F6 XR726. This was one of the earlier F6s to get the chop, and was latterly DF with the LTF. It's without its large ventral tank and has a red ballast unit replacing the missile pack, to ensure it stayed tail-up when upright.
Phil

Rewind ......I think it's XR752, again an F6, but was BL b4 it went to the great melting pot in the sky - it was scrapped at Binbrook. XR726 wasn't scrapped at Binbrook - it went to Rossington.
Sorry for any confusion caused,
Phil

Many thanks for the info Phil, that's extremely helpful. I had wondered whether it was an F6 but had automatically assumed it to be an F3 for some reason. I have four of the £9.99 Revell F6 kits which is a bonus as I wanted to keep my spare Trumpeter F3 for a more serviceable aircraft! Had a look at XR752 and it definitely fits the profile.

I didn't know of Ian Black's books but will definitely have a look. Can you recommend a good one, perhaps with full updated aircraft histories and photos?

Thanks again for your help!

Tom

[STCAAMEkid]

TWA - Cross referencing this picture with pictures in one of Ian Black's books and my own pictures + notes, I believe the grey one on its back is F6 XR726. This was one of the earlier F6s to get the chop, and was latterly DF with the LTF. It's without its large ventral tank and has a red ballast unit replacing the missile pack, to ensure it stayed tail-up when upright.
Phil

Rewind ......I think it's XR752, again an F6, but was BL b4 it went to the great melting pot in the sky - it was scrapped at Binbrook. XR726 wasn't scrapped at Binbrook - it went to Rossington.
Sorry for any confusion caused,
Phil

Many thanks for the info Phil, that's extremely helpful. I had wondered whether it was an F6 but had automatically assumed it to be an F3 for some reason. I have four of the £9.99 Revell F6 kits which is a bonus as I wanted to keep my spare Trumpeter F3 for a more serviceable aircraft! Had a look at XR752 and it definitely fits the profile.

I didn't know of Ian Black's books but will definitely have a look. Can you recommend a good one, perhaps with full updated aircraft histories and photos?

Thanks again for your help!

Tom

Tom - two books feature colour images of the Binbrook decoys in various states of dismemberment;
"Lightning", by Ian Black, Airlife Publishing ltd, 1988. Includes brief history of each Lightning.
"The Last of the Lightnings", same author, Patrick Stephens Ltd, 1996.
If you want a more detailed history of each aircraft (only up to 1984, so missing last 4 years of Lightning operations) the following reference may be of use, but piccies are mostly B+W.
"EE/ BAC Lightning", by Bruce Barrymore Halpenny, Osprey Air Combat series, Osprey Publishing Ltd, 1984.

With reference to your first post that started this thread, the grey/ green camouflaged F3 decoy with 11 Sqn nose bars was XP695. It has a blue/ white Waffenschule 10 zap painted beside these 11 sqn markings.

See how you get on with these books if you can find copies,
Phil.

[twamoran]

Tom - two books feature colour images of the Binbrook decoys in various states of dismemberment;
"Lightning", by Ian Black, Airlife Publishing ltd, 1988. Includes brief history of each Lightning.
"The Last of the Lightnings", same author, Patrick Stephens Ltd, 1996.
If you want a more detailed history of each aircraft (only up to 1984, so missing last 4 years of Lightning operations) the following reference may be of use, but piccies are mostly B+W.
"EE/ BAC Lightning", by Bruce Barrymore Halpenny, Osprey Air Combat series, Osprey Publishing Ltd, 1984.

With reference to your first post that started this thread, the grey/ green camouflaged F3 decoy with 11 Sqn nose bars was XP695. It has a blue/ white Waffenschule 10 zap painted beside these 11 sqn markings.

See how you get on with these books if you can find copies,
Phil.

Brilliant stuff Phil, thanks massively! I'll have a look around and see if I can find copies on Amazon or elsewhere. Sounds like just what I'm after, and it'll also be great to get a detailed history of the airframes as the ones I've seen online so far aren't too detailed.

Thanks too for the info about XP695. I thought that was the machine but thanks much for the additional info about the Waffenschule 10 zap, which has cleared up an additional question I had

I also found this photo on Britmodeller.com: http://i960.photobucket.com/albums/ae82 ... -09_32.jpg (via this excellent thread: http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/inde ... &p=788912&). These Lightnings appear to be parked on the other runway to the one where the standard decoys were, but the F1.As on the right side look very much like the two documented decoys. Interesting history! Thanks again Phil and I'll let you know how I get on with the books.

[twamoran]

Quick update, things are moving forward!

Thanks again to everyone (Henk, NAM Updater, F-86 and Phil) for all your help and photos, it's very much appreciated. Phil, the Ian Black books are absolutely terrific, thanks massively for the heads-up about those! I'm now settled into my new place having just returned to the UK and my 1:72 rendition of the Binbrook decoys is now (just) underway. It'll be a relatively long term project and I'll probably document it in photos and post on the Airfix Tribute forum if anyone's interested. If so let me know and I'll shoot you a link when things get into gear.

The diorama might need some artistic license due to the availability of old kits. The T5s will be the biggest challenge since the trainers are not as easy to get hold of and as a result I'm not sure I want to massacre one with a razor saw and scalpel when some out there could turn it into a pristine model! However, I do have an old Matchbox F.53 kit that may find itself becoming a T5 with the aid of some F3 wings and the belly tank removed. To add a bit of realism (due to the gaping hole in the bottom where the ventral tank was) I'll be using some plasticard and wire from the hardware shop to simulate various piping inside the fuselage. I've never done though, so although I have a very clear picture in my head, it could end up somewhat different

For the moment though, it's F1As, F3s and an F6 or two. All the aircraft will hopefully be accurate renditions of the Binbrook decoys, although they may not have been parked in the same place on the airfield, but I can live with that for the same of availability. Here's the first batch currently underway:

F3 XP695
F1A XM181
F1A XM183
F6 XR752

All these can be seen in the excellent link posted above by F-86. Mine will be the right way up!

The F3 and F6 will be fairly stripped hulks, which presents a fun challenge with the intakes and jet pipes of the old Airfix kits. They'll be engineless, so some sawing and sanding will be needed. From photos I've seen, the F1As were more complete airframes, but probably far more corroded due to the length of time spent outside. I'm guessing a bit here, but that seems to make sense! More to come and sorry to waffle on. Once again, many thanks to all for your help and for pointing me in the right direction!

Best wishes,

Tom

[Chrissk]

XS457 is one of them, her rescue can be seen here.....
http://www.binbrook.demon.co.uk/html/XS457.html

Unfortuneately only her nose survived but they intend to rebuild her using bits from T53/55s. Pop along and have a look. Theres a nice guy there called Ray who will show you round.

[twamoran]

XS457 is one of them, her rescue can be seen here.....
http://www.binbrook.demon.co.uk/html/XS457.html

Unfortuneately only her nose survived but they intend to rebuild her using bits from T53/55s. Pop along and have a look. Theres a nice guy there called Ray who will show you round.

Great stuff, thanks for the info Chrissk and very pleased to hear XS457 is set to be rebuilt. Perhaps she can now be the subject of my T5