Group Builds, whats happening??

[scotthldr]

Hi all,

Firstly Happy New Year to all, and best wishes for the coming year.

Now, what is happening with the Group Builds? After the spectacle that surrounded the GB's early last year(2009) I have to say that I'm disappointed in the turn out that the last 3 sets of GB's have produced, not in the standard but the amount of people that are participating. I'm sure I don't have to remind people about the name calling and slandering that was getting thrown about in how to progress with Ben's(Original Monty) initial idea and the thought that those who contribute the most to the modelling section had the better ideas was frowned upon by others. Now I'm thinking where abouts are all those people that were saying there was a conspiracy behind the idea?

I know that not everyone can or will take part in every GB ( I have my own build list and interests, so I'm unlikely to build anything WWII era, but you never know), but the last 2 GB's Monty's "Spies in the Skies" and Random's "Good Morning Vietnam" only attracted 6 builds by 4 people and 4 builds by 3 people respectively (and out of that Deacon done 4 himself with a failed 5th ).

Without interest in the group builds they are going to die simple as, and the whole point of doing them was to try and introduce/reintroduce people into the modelling pastime which seems to have failed So where has it gone or going wrong?

Shaun's(Seamus) "Luftwaffe WWII/46" GB has started today, and it would be good to see some new names take part. The other GB was to have been hosted by Dunny but he hasn't been on site for a while so I'll PM him to remind him. If he doesn't reply by Sunday this week I will take over his "Conflict in Afghanistan".

Scott

[Seamus]

Have to agree with Scott, it's been a little disappointing to see so few members taking part in the group builds, especially after so much initial enthusiasm from many. I'd be interested to know of any reasons why those who were seemingly up for the idea have yet to participate. There has been a wide scope of subjects offered by the 6 that have run so far, so surely everyone's tastes would have been catered for by now?

I appreciate that people's interest can waver, especially during the airshow season, but I'd have thought now would be the perfect opportunity to get the tools out again and try a spot of modelling to fill those winter evenings.

I'm a big fan of group builds, and I've done my best to try and finish at least one build for each GB, though sadly I just didn't have the time to finish anything for the Vietnam GB due to GB commitments elsewhere, which I do regret as it's one my preferred areas of interest. I'd certainly be sorry to see them go, but if they're not getting enough support, there really isn't much point in running them...

On the positive side, there has been a fair deal of interest in the Luftwaffe GB shown by a few newcomers to the modelling section, which is particularly pleasing

[Ben Montgomery]

I think it is the modelling section as a whole that has been VERY quiet recently. I've been busy with Uni and my Spooky, so not much time to participate in GBs (but I aim to try at least one of the current ones!), and I guess other people have similar limitations on time.

I do feel a bit let down that there was a HUGE amount of initial interest, and it still remains the same few (with a few welcome newcomers) who regularly participate.

[ArabJazzie]

Hi Scott,
Would love to take part in these but i dont want to build my only Luftwaffe machine just now. And i dont have anything that i want to build to depict the Afghan conflict either. I certainly have quite a problem with time, and seen as ive made a cracking job with the livingroom, ive just signed more time away with the rest of the flat!!!

I also have 32 in the build pile that i want to blast through soon so i can get to the ones in the stash i really want to build.

I will be back soon as i have a nice one for the SAR GB.
Happy new year.
Geoff.
PS, including my F-5s, since the 21st december ive managed to complete 7 and have a quick build in progress.

[Mictheslik]

I didn't take part in the last GBs because those aircraft don't tend to Interest me.....I will probably get something in for both of these though

.mic

[DerekF]

I'll only take part if it fits in with what I want to build anyway and, I have to say, the reduction to three months didn't help in my case either. It meant that the WW2 builds I had planned would fall outside the dates so I didn't bother.
The forum has been very quiet recently and response to some recent builds has been virtually non-existent. I'm not sure why. Maybe a die-cast toy sub-forum would help?

[scotthldr]

The forum has been very quiet recently and response to some recent builds has been virtually non-existent. I'm not sure why. Maybe a die-cast toy sub-forum would help?

Die cast

I've noticed that the forum has been very quiet for the past 6 months, and I've came to the conclusion that it's down to the Group Builds unfortunately I think they have for one reason or another taken away that special feel that existed in the modelling section within UKAR.

1/ Do people not like being confined to a certain subject?
2/ Does the time scale put extra pressure on people?
3/ Subject matter not that great?
or
4/ Some people just talk a good model but don't won't to show for some reason? We kept hearing from people that have heaps of kits in the stash but we never actually get to see any

I hate to say it, but as a group we need to talk about where to go with the GB's or the whole modelling section is going to suffer which is already evident.

How and what do others feel?

Scott

[Ben Montgomery]

Personally, I dont think that it is the GBs that is causing the problem, the first two we ran had pretty good participation (nothing like the level of interest expressed in them before they started) but since then it has got quieter and quieter.

I'm happy to continue doing GBs, although my time and space are limited at university (when my Agressor one is on though, I will be at home so can do quite a bit for that).

Definately need some other views, because Scott is right, we have lost something.

[ArabJazzie]

Some answers to your questions Scott,
1/ Do people not like being confined to a certain subject?
No as my stash covers nearly all the GB topics so far and in the future.
2/ Does the time scale put extra pressure on people?
Sadly always an issue with me due shift work/family/house and car DIY.
3/ Subject matter not that great?
See answer 1.
4/ Some people just talk a good model but don't won't to show for some reason? We kept hearing from people that have heaps of kits in the stash but we never actually get to see any.
Never have talked mine up. As long as they look good on the shelf, im happy. I do have 32 on the build pile and roughly 70 in the stash including conversion parts.

Arabest,
Geoff.

[DerekF]

Why not have a 6 month GB rather than 3? The subjects are fine and are varied enough for everyone. Maybe run more concurrently for longer?

I have used the GBs as an excuse for building some kits that otherwise I wouldn't have; the C-119 in the Tankers and Transport GB being an example.

We kept hearing from people that have heaps of kits in the stash but we never actually get to see any.

I am guilty of that certainly but I just never seem to have the inclination. Definitely some Luftwaffe machines on the way though.

How about aiming towards a UKAR table at Telford in November or a model display at one of the summer's airshows?

[scotthldr]

We kept hearing from people that have heaps of kits in the stash but we never actually get to see any.

I am guilty of that certainly but I just never seem to have the inclination. Definitely some Luftwaffe machines on the way though.

How about aiming towards a UKAR table at Telford in November or a model display at one of the summer's airshows?

I wouldn't say that you are, you say you have a stash but at the same time you produce finished builds on a regular basis to a high standard. Some people on here say their stash is so big it rivals their local model shop yet I'm still to see any of their finished work.

A good idea for the majority, but unfortunately for me the distance is too great to warrant it especially in November. But those in Scotland could aim towards the Scottish Nationals in Perth in April.

[Seamus]

Why not have a 6 month GB rather than 3? The subjects are fine and are varied enough for everyone. Maybe run more concurrently for longer?

The problem there is that we initially ran the GBs for 4 months, but unfortunately interest and impetus ran out well before the deadline, hence the switch to 3 months. This though doesn't seem to have improved things either, but I doubt increasing the time frame would either. Just seems a bit of a lose lose situation at the moment.....

Looking forward to seeing your Luft builds though

[Ben Montgomery]

This one is aimed at the UKAR staff really, and not directly related (ish) to the topic.

I've been scanning through the modelling section, and there is far less staff input that most of the other sections - for example Shaun has asked for his Luftwaffe GB thread to be pinned and nothing has happened. I know it was only 1 day ago and that you guys are busy, but the thread has already gone halfway down the page.

So my suggestion is, can we have a section moderator to look after the GB section - one of the modelling guys? Hopefully that way we can keep on top of our organisation a bit better, and relieve pressure on you slightly?

Just an idea, it works pretty well over on FC in our model section.

Ben

[scotthldr]

Never have talked mine up. As long as they look good on the shelf, im happy. I do have 32 on the build pile and roughly 70 in the stash including conversion parts.

I know you haven't but you're showing some of yours which is what we're after

I have just scrolled through the initial GB threads early last year, the main thread with all the arguing/bitching was deleted at the time but from the remainder of them, there is over 30 names expressing serious interest in participating, about 60% of them have never entered and 50% have never commented on them since. When it was put to all if they wanted to host a GB only 10 people replied, most of those being regular contributors to the section anyway, so no one can really complain if the subjects don't interest them.

Ben, great idea on the Moderator within the Modelling section at least it will allow things to be kept on top of.

[Craig]

Just to give my point of view. I entered the Modern Mil GB first time, and thoroughly enjoyed it, ran out of time and as a result missed the deadline, but it did provide the impetus to drag it off the pile and get cracking with it. Since that though I've not built anything, not because I don't want to, but because I just haven't had the chance. A new job in a different part of the country has put a real stran on and my priority will be making sure I get the Sea King I promised 78 Sqn done. If that fits a GB I'll enter it. As for the overall "feel" of the section, well it's double edged really. I love visiting this part of the forum, and try to drop in on/leave comments on a good number of projects, and it's nice to see the work of some of the modelling "machines" we have on here. Sadly though even producing a so-so model for me takes a few months, I'd love to build more, I just can't, and sadly fear that I'll not get through more than 2 or 3 in 2010 either . That's not to say there's a problem though, the enthusiasm is there, just under my current circumstances think doing a model to the standard required here, with a subject that interests me, may be difficult. Still love the idea, but life gets in the way

[Fumbles]

Sorry things have been quiet with me. I had to step out of the "Spies in the Sky's build" I did pick up the kit at the local hobby shop. But literally the day after. I was offered a position of work I could not refuse. For many years I have wanted to work with computers and get out of the Glass/Glazing world and a chance came by. The only problem was that I needed to study and complete 29 exams with Atos Origin while still working 44 hours a week at my old job. I have now passed those exams and now work for Acer Computers, contracted by Vanoc for the 2010 Winter Olympics here in Vancouver! Wohoo!

Anyways... I now have time to get back into building kits again. Starting Monday I'll have two on the go. The late RF-4E Special that I wanted to get into the build with and I also picked up the Airfix 1/72 scale Halifax for the 78 Squadron build. I'm still trying to find a Whitley from our local shops. One shop owner says he "may be able to get one by February."

Ben, I see your post regarding pinning and changing threads to announcements. Starting now I have the time to check in each night my time, If there is something that should be changed please send me a PM and that goes for anybody in here. But as a note. I cannot add any Sub Forums. But I can pin/edit/delete and move topics. As a matter of fact now that I am back. It's sorted.
Hopefully it'll look okay now?
I'm back again and cannot wait to get started building again. You all put out some very nice looking kits in the past two months.

[scotthldr]

Hi Fumbles, congrats on the new job and it's good to see you back, I did wonder where you vanished to with your RF-4.

Looking forward to seeing some of your builds again.

Scott

[iaint]

I would try to join in Group builds, however I take far too long to complete my models (other things get in the way, damn computers, internet, work etc...) plus I'm ashamed to say my enthusiam wanes a bit at times... lol
I also admit that my talents are not to the standard of some folk here, my abilities stretch to OOB builds with 'factory fresh' finishes... (Which I am generally pleased with myself)
My small stash (the wife doesnt quite agree, and I only have 10 unstarted models and 4 in progress) only stretches to the modern military aviation, the oldest subjects I personally would go back to are cold war era... So that knocks out the older Group builds for me...
I also reckon I'd struggle with the WIP threads that accompany the GB's so that stops me from joining in I reckon, I feel that my 'review' (if I did so) would not really be all that interesting on an OOB Build...
I do enjoy looking through the threads mind!


Iain

[Seamus]

I also admit that my talents are not to the standard of some folk here, my abilities stretch to OOB builds with 'factory fresh' finishes... (Which I am generally pleased with myself)

Hi Iain,

There is absolutely nothing wrong with a build OOB; the vast majority of mine are built just that way. The use of resin and etch does not necessarily make you a better modeller, anyone who thinks that is basically talking out of their arse! Similarly, clean finishes are more than acceptable, it's simply a preference of the modeller.

You seem pretty enthusiastic, and as you say you're more into modern jets, perhaps there's something in the stash that could fit in with the Afghan GB? Obviously I can't force you to build anything, but you might find you really get into the hobby. Who knows, you might find after a few kits you want to try out new techniques, maybe a spot of weathering here and there? If so, there's always going to be someone here who can offer help and advice should you need it.

Something to think about perhaps

Cheers

Shaun

[ianf]

Hi
Having read this thread with interest. I wondered what is the reason for the lack of interest? I'm still not sure but I've noted the whole of ukar has been quiet in recent months, which I do not know why. That said I can understand work or something else putting you temporirly out of a build I did all the GB except the last 2 due to other commitments but I'm back for this one. I think the GB were and are a good idea. I for one was new to this section before the GB and I have just put my first none GB thread on here. I do like the 3 month period I think it is about right, but was wondering if the fact that there are some seriously good modellers posting it is putting others off by way of them thinking we cannot compete against that, in other words being intimidated enough not to try. I hope that is not the case because A Gb build isn't about whos best its a sharing experience, I've helped folk with refrences others have helped me and some good banter has been had. So if anyone is put off , don't be it is the taking part thats important not the end result. I also like the idea of a mod minding this section I see fumbles says he will look in more that will help with the pinning of posts etc. It also may be a credit to this section of ukar is so friendly the "sheriffs" don't look here much!
As to posting replies I think a lot of the time we are guilty of looking but not saying something, even if it is only nice job. I know some think you should only post if you have constructive things to say, but I feel there isn't anything wrong in simply saying nice kit. its not a case of see how good I am, its just nice to know someones taken the time to look and appreciate what you have done as anyone who posts pics will tell you it takes time to prepare the thread so its appreciated by me at least if someone takes time to say something.
I hope those who did express interest will look again and think ok I can have a go lets see the luftwaffe GB kick things back off its one subject thats well covered by models lets see if we can't get an airforce going!

Ian

[iaint]

I have been modelling for years, on and off, however since 2000-2002 it has off more than on!
When the modelling bug bites I look at the other offerings on forums like this and morespecifically BM and do want to get into the weathering and the likes, however a lack of confidence and not wanting to spoil the current models puts me off! I have only recently got round to using an (albeit relatively cheap) airbrush...
I tend not to experiment at the moment as I don't buy many models and don't have the spare ones to mess around with, so don't want (to as said above) 'ruin' what I do have with a basic attempt at the techniques... lol
A vicious circle of confidence and learning and knowing where to start etc... lol will have to bite the bullet and try something out soon enough...

But I am moving away from topic now!

Cheers,

Iain

[scotthldr]

Obviously I can't force you to build anything,

We could try

Totally agree with Shaun's and Ian's posts above. We aren't a competitive bunch in here like on other modelling sites. We are a group of people from all 4 corners of the UK and further afield, that enjoy the same hobby and are willing to show our work for others to pass comment and give advice on. When I posted my first build on here 2 years ago I was in 2 minds weather or not to do it as I felt they weren't up to the standards that some modellers were putting out(Takamota, Jelly and others). I'm glad I did as I have learnt some useful techniques since.

As for the GB's who cares if you don't finish within the time scale, the only reason the times are there, is to offer as many and varied subjects throughout the year. If you want, do your own WIP outwith the GB at which you can build with a speed that your comfortable with and along he way gives you the chance to ask advice if you need any. The whole point of the GB's was to try and get people that used to build or want to start for the first time get into modelling. We have seen a few new faces, but it would be great to see many more on here.

My advice to anyone thinking about getting into the modelling lark is "do it, and this is probably the best place to get into it".

Scott

[Craig]

My advice to anyone thinking about getting into the modelling lark is "do it, and this is probably the best place to get into it".

Scott

That is definately true. The great thing about this section is it's small, you see the same names coming up and there's some real talent on here. There's none of the perfectionist mentality that some sites have though, and most builds attract comments which I think is a real plus. When you've finished a model, or even while you're still on with it those comments can really help gear you up when things aren't going well. It's a "family" mentality on here, and long may it continue

[flying_medic]

My advice to anyone thinking about getting into the modelling lark is "do it, and this is probably the best place to get into it".

Scott

That is definately true. The great thing about this section is it's small, you see the same names coming up and there's some real talent on here. There's none of the perfectionist mentality that some sites have though, and most builds attract comments which I think is a real plus. When you've finished a model, or even while you're still on with it those comments can really help gear you up when things aren't going well. It's a "family" mentality on here, and long may it continue

This attitude is probably the main reason why I post my models on an airshow forum rather than on a forum dedicated to modelling alone. I have a confession to make, I am not particularly interested in airshows (although I have participated in a few) or aircraft photography (apart from a passing admiration for some the shots that appear on here). The main attraction for me is that as a relatively late returner to modelling, I was made to feel welcome and was encouraged by many of the modelling superstars on here.

When I resumed modelling my first efforts were ham-fisted and badly painted, but no-one complained, or made me feel my efforts were worthless. I have learned with each model and tried to incorporate a new technique with each one and tried to improve as I went along. I like that fact there are are no "rivet counters" on here or scathing comments when someone's hard work doesn't come out to exhibition standards. I have been helped and encouraged along the way, which has made me continue with the hobby and try to take on more challenging models and techniques.

As far as GBs go, my main motivation for returning to modelling was to document the types of aircraft I have flown, hence the ongoing "My flying career" threads. Where a GB overlaps with this I will try to participate. And, when the day finally comes that I have completed all of the models I flew, I will be taking on a few more GBs. I have also decided to to take part in the 78 Sqn GB, as the Sqn's aim of building its history strangely mirrors my own! However, that seems to have stalled (Deacon and Original Monty, check your PMs).

So for those people who are lurking on here and feel that their own modelling skills are not as good as some of the more professional modellers, I have to say give it a go. There is something quite satisfying about having someone look at your work and commenting on it.

F_M

[ArabJazzie]

Cant believe anyone is put off and not participating! Its the reason i take part when i can as i hope to show we are open to everyone on here!

So if you are looking at this thinking, i cant get near this standard, dont be silly and get involved!!!
Arabest,
Geoff.