Scampton Airshow 2018

Re: Scampton Airshow 2018

Postby st24 on Fri 22 Dec 2017, 11:46 am

Chrisse wrote:
Finningley Boy wrote:Indeed, I think we only got the Belgian F-16 at Scampton this year because the Tiffy solo did the evening only display at Sanicole. :cuppa:

FB :biggrin:


Uhm no, and it didn't :cuppa: :biggrin:

:lol: nor the Reds!!... :whistle:
You caaan't trust the system... Maaan!
User avatar
st24

Re: Scampton Airshow 2018

Postby clearstone on Fri 22 Dec 2017, 11:49 am

No Chrisse and st24, they did. They just looked very like the Rafale and the Breitling Jet Team in the evening light/gloom! :lol:
clearstone

Re: Scampton Airshow 2018

Postby iainpeden on Fri 22 Dec 2017, 3:31 pm

You forgot the Frecce who gave a very tight, close display of precision formation flying in and out of a low cloud base. At least I won't feel guilty going to Belgium again next September.
User avatar
iainpeden

Re: Scampton Airshow 2018

Postby mavvymoo on Wed 27 Dec 2017, 3:46 pm

TornadoAlex wrote:Sad news I for one was looking forward to Scampton 2018 especially with the RAF's birthday sadly many people today prefer to spend their spare time "enjoying" themselves walking round shopping centres like zombies :hypno: rather than doing something interesting or exciting like attending an airshow.

Take Cheshire Oaks as an example every weekend is the same mile long tailback countless police cars and bikes just to marshal people into a god forsaken shopping complex people actually choose this abject misery what a clown act :clown:

The joy and excitement of an airshow is a recent thing for me I first attended a show in 2014 since then I have been hooked. Going a bit off topic but for many years I have attended motorsport events (oulton park especially) and often I think to myself where is everyone why do so few attend something so exciting and worthwhile?

I think one of the issues is cultural back in the day people would attend events now all they want to do is sit in and watch Netflix or whatever. My view may be simplistic but I am certain modern day culture has a lot to do with current situation.


The thing is that nowadays there are so many alternative ways of thrill seeking and perhaps (just perhaps) air displays have become unfashionable with the British public. Tens (if not hundreds) of thousands shell out money every other week for tickets at prices that even RIAT might be embarrassed by for 90 minutes of unpredictable entertainment at football stadiums up and down the country. Perhaps that is the key - for one reason or another air displays have become predictable and uninspiring. Something is needed to spark re-engagement with the masses in order to make them an attractive proposition to organise and attend. Sadly our litigious and in some cases risk-averse society is depriving our innovation of the oxygen that it needs.
User avatar
mavvymoo

Re: Scampton Airshow 2018

Postby speedbird2639 on Wed 27 Dec 2017, 5:05 pm

I dispute that the displays have become unpopular with the public. RIAT nand Cosford always have strong crowds as do the seaside shows for the more casual observer.
I think a couple of things may have put some people off Scampon:

1) The bus transfer - if you are a family with Mum, Dad, potentially multiple offspring and all the attendant clutter in the form of chairs, tents, awnings, food, drink etc that they will take for a long day out then having to park the car some distance away and then decamp to a bus for a short journey to then have to decamp again with all the stuff a lot of people will say "Oh I can't be bothered with all of that" when at the likes of Cosford you can stay near your vehicle and even at RIAT the car is only walking distance away.

2) Scampton were charging RIAT prices for something that fairly early on it was quite clear was never, ever going to be anywhere near the calibre of RIAT. Even people who only have a half hearted interest in airshows could see it was shudderingly poor VFM.

Additionally I always find peoples attempt to force an comparison between air shows (and their prices) and Premier League football. Its very apples and oranges. People might go to an airshow because it is a family day out; enthusiasts have their favourite shows. Blokes (and despite the changes over the last 20 years it is still predominantly blokes) go to the football as a social thing where for many of them meeting up with mates and going for a drink is actually the main part of the day and the football is just the catalyst which gets them together. Now if the airshow organisers could fine some way of tapping into the tribalism of football that keeps the paying customer coming back week after week and year after year even though 90% of the clubs have no chance of any recognisable success or reward then they would be laughing and airshows would be booming!
User avatar
speedbird2639

Re: Scampton Airshow 2018

Postby Xray833 on Wed 27 Dec 2017, 7:42 pm

speedbird2639 wrote:". Now if the airshow organisers could fine some way of tapping into the tribalism of football that keeps the paying customer coming back week after week and year after year even though 90% of the clubs have no chance of any recognisable success or reward then they would be laughing and airshows would be booming!


Heaven forbid, the last thing that is needed is the “ethics” of a football crowd. There is far too much football affecting modern life now (IMHO).
Xray833

Re: Scampton Airshow 2018

Postby XP282 on Wed 27 Dec 2017, 8:54 pm

I don’t want to air dirty laundry in public and will therefore refrain for voicing my opinion on why the show failed to meet expectations, other than to say I don’t think it was down to the team at Scampton. I think if they were able to organise the show the way they wanted then it would have been a great success. There is some great experience there.

However, one think I want to comment on is this bl00dy Park and ride! The show didn’t fail because of a park and ride. There was a park and ride in place for those who wanted to use it. Equally there was a public footpath instated across the farmers field direct into the camp for the many that wanted to walk. A walk that was still far less than the walk from some RIAT car parks. If RIAT put on a bus people would probably thank them... Scampton put on a bus and it’s the failure of the show. Financially it might have hurt the organisers, but it was no reason for any member of the public not to go!
XP282

Re: Scampton Airshow 2018

Postby Finningley Boy on Thu 28 Dec 2017, 5:12 am

mavvymoo wrote:
TornadoAlex wrote:Sad news I for one was looking forward to Scampton 2018 especially with the RAF's birthday sadly many people today prefer to spend their spare time "enjoying" themselves walking round shopping centres like zombies :hypno: rather than doing something interesting or exciting like attending an airshow.

Take Cheshire Oaks as an example every weekend is the same mile long tailback countless police cars and bikes just to marshal people into a god forsaken shopping complex people actually choose this abject misery what a clown act :clown:

The joy and excitement of an airshow is a recent thing for me I first attended a show in 2014 since then I have been hooked. Going a bit off topic but for many years I have attended motorsport events (oulton park especially) and often I think to myself where is everyone why do so few attend something so exciting and worthwhile?

I think one of the issues is cultural back in the day people would attend events now all they want to do is sit in and watch Netflix or whatever. My view may be simplistic but I am certain modern day culture has a lot to do with current situation.


The thing is that nowadays there are so many alternative ways of thrill seeking and perhaps (just perhaps) air displays have become unfashionable with the British public. Tens (if not hundreds) of thousands shell out money every other week for tickets at prices that even RIAT might be embarrassed by for 90 minutes of unpredictable entertainment at football stadiums up and down the country. Perhaps that is the key - for one reason or another air displays have become predictable and uninspiring. Something is needed to spark re-engagement with the masses in order to make them an attractive proposition to organise and attend. Sadly our litigious and in some cases risk-averse society is depriving our innovation of the oxygen that it needs.


Its not the public who have gone off air shows, they'll go where there is something happening, the dearth is down to there not being much to attract participationwise to any airshows. RIAT is still brilliant even though it saw its last best even 20 years ago, its still a winner with the public. Yeovilton and Cosford still draw the crowds, so does Duxford, Dunsfold, Prestwick/Troon, Sunderland, Eastbourne and all the rest of the sea fronters, same on the continent. The failure on one, is due to the lack of provision.. of aircraft that is....flying aircraft! :cuppa:

FB :biggrin:
I have danced the skies on laughter-silvered wings!
Finningley Boy

Re: Scampton Airshow 2018

Postby andrewn on Thu 28 Dec 2017, 7:58 am

XP282 wrote:I don’t want to air dirty laundry in public and will therefore refrain for voicing my opinion on why the show failed to meet expectations, other than to say I don’t think it was down to the team at Scampton. I think if they were able to organise the show the way they wanted then it would have been a great success. There is some great experience there.


But the implication being that RAF/MOD/MAA have no appetite for air displays and were more than happy to see Scampton fail? Or am I reading too much into this?
User avatar
andrewn

Re: Scampton Airshow 2018

Postby XP282 on Thu 28 Dec 2017, 8:41 am

andrewn wrote:But the implication being that RAF/MOD/MAA have no appetite for air displays and were more than happy to see Scampton fail? Or am I reading too much into this?


No, the fact that the opportunity to get some really interesting aircraft to the show were turned down because ‘that’s not how it’s done anymore’. The days of actually inviting people to your airshow seem to be long gone! As I said, this isn’t a critism of the people at Scampton - one person in particular who I know worked tirelessly to make the show a success. Someone who I have a great amount of respect for.

Actually, this whole ‘the RAF / MOD wanted it to fail’ line is untrue. If the RAF wanted it to fail they simply wouldn’t have let it start in the first place. There was no great pressure to replace Waddington. We as enthusiasts were sad to loose the but the MOD weren’t under any pressure. If they wanted it to fail it just wouldn’t have happened at all.
XP282

Re: Scampton Airshow 2018

Postby cg_341 on Thu 28 Dec 2017, 9:51 am

XP282 wrote:The days of actually inviting people to your airshow seem to be long gone!

Not an airshow, but we invited the French in April...
cg_341

Re: Scampton Airshow 2018

Postby XP282 on Thu 28 Dec 2017, 10:16 am

cg_341 wrote:
XP282 wrote:The days of actually inviting people to your airshow seem to be long gone!

Not an airshow, but we invited the French in April...


I'm sorry, I'm not quite sure what you mean by that??
XP282

Re: Scampton Airshow 2018

Postby D200 on Thu 28 Dec 2017, 10:38 am

When the Waddington Airshow was cancelled, the public outcry, fuelled by local government, was both vocal and widespread. Nobody, be it individual, business, or government department court such negative publicity. Therefore hard decisions have to be carefully managed; hence 'hype' being in existence.

If the RAF are to engage with taxpayers in any shape or form, the centenary year of 2018 is the time to do it. The generations who owe their existence to the Battle of Britain are no longer the driving force of the country. The people pulling the strings these days have purses at the other end, not sentiment, nor do they wear rose tinted spectacles. That Scampton Airshow is canned for 2018 on 'postponement' is 'spin' that will dilute the negative public press whilst the event is quietly swept under the carpet. It is gone; and it will not be the only one in the years to come. Behind the scenes at any Airshow is a team; without whom the event will not work, and an event the scale of 'RIAT North' cannot succeed without a cohesive team capable of overlapping responsibility working to a common goal. Such a team is incapable of taking a year out and then carrying on as if nothing was wrong.
User avatar
D200

Re: Scampton Airshow 2018

Postby speedbird2639 on Thu 28 Dec 2017, 10:58 am

I'm convinced that after missing 2018 someone from the RAF media arm will come out in early 2019 to say something to the effect of:

"Following a reappraisal of RAF spending priorities and better understanding how we interact with the public, coupled with the failure of the initial RAF Scampton air show in 2017 to reach predetermined targets and objectives we have reluctantly decided not to pursue the option of a 2019 show."

Or some other equally meaningless marketing department drivel; though their version will probably run to 500 words when it could have been said in one sentence.
User avatar
speedbird2639

Re: Scampton Airshow 2018

Postby BossMann on Thu 28 Dec 2017, 12:45 pm

XP282 wrote:I don’t want to air dirty laundry in public and will therefore refrain for voicing my opinion on why the show failed to meet expectations, other than to say I don’t think it was down to the team at Scampton. I think if they were able to organise the show the way they wanted then it would have been a great success. There is some great experience there.

However, one think I want to comment on is this bl00dy Park and ride! The show didn’t fail because of a park and ride. There was a park and ride in place for those who wanted to use it. Equally there was a public footpath instated across the farmers field direct into the camp for the many that wanted to walk. A walk that was still far less than the walk from some RIAT car parks. If RIAT put on a bus people would probably thank them... Scampton put on a bus and it’s the failure of the show. Financially it might have hurt the organisers, but it was no reason for any member of the public not to go!


So if the team based at Scampton could have organised a successful show i.e. a Waddington show at RAF Scampton, then was it the team at DBH/ RAFCTE at Fairford that got things wrong????

Wasn't the RACFCTE set up specifically to run RIAT and the RAF Concert Tours when the RAFBF stopped supporting the events for whatever reason? It is strange that an organisation specifically set up to run airshows/ events could not organise another airshow. The Scampton show was announced in February 2016 without any specific dates but 'likely September time 2017' and the actual dates were announced in May 2016. Was this not enough time for them to get it right? Should they have planned for a first show in 2018 if they needed more time for e.g. to discuss with FRIAT members what they wanted the Scampton show to be like - a RIAT North or a Country Fayre/ Seaside Airshow style event with prices and flying display to match???

Does anyone know how many tickets they actually sold for Scampton? in the pre show press releases I thought it was almost a sell out? Things don't add up here but it is sad to loose the airshow that was replacing the RAF Finingley/ Leuchars/ Waddington line of RAF Airshows.
BossMann

Re: Scampton Airshow 2018

Postby cg_341 on Thu 28 Dec 2017, 3:52 pm

XP282 wrote:
cg_341 wrote:
XP282 wrote:The days of actually inviting people to your airshow seem to be long gone!

Not an airshow, but we invited the French in April...


I'm sorry, I'm not quite sure what you mean by that??

You said "the days of actually inviting people seem to be long gone", which I took to imply that it's not the 'done'/acceptable thing to do. I was merely stating that we did just that and secured two French Army Gazelles to our event at Middle Wallop in April of this year.
cg_341

Re: Scampton Airshow 2018

Postby andrewn on Thu 28 Dec 2017, 8:09 pm

speedbird2639 wrote:I'm convinced that after missing 2018 someone from the RAF media arm will come out in early 2019 to say something to the effect of:

"Following a reappraisal of RAF spending priorities and better understanding how we interact with the public, coupled with the failure of the initial RAF Scampton air show in 2017 to reach predetermined targets and objectives we have reluctantly decided not to pursue the option of a 2019 show."

Or some other equally meaningless marketing department drivel; though their version will probably run to 500 words when it could have been said in one sentence.


That's brilliant Speedbird, and probably closer to the truth than any of us realise I expect...

By the way, as one who attended the 2017 show and enjoyed it, I'm hopeful of a comeback :)
User avatar
andrewn

Re: Scampton Airshow 2018

Postby Spotty_Jag on Sat 30 Dec 2017, 11:55 am

XP282 wrote:The days of actually inviting people to your airshow seem to be long gone!

You think air arms of the world turn up of their own accord at Fairford/Yeovilton/Biggin Hill/Cosford etc each year then? :facepalm:
User avatar
Spotty_Jag

Re: Scampton Airshow 2018

Postby Berf on Sat 30 Dec 2017, 5:28 pm

speedbird2639 wrote:I'm convinced that after missing 2018 someone from the RAF media arm will come out in early 2019 to say something to the effect of:

"Following a reappraisal of RAF spending priorities and better understanding how we interact with the public, coupled with the failure of the initial RAF Scampton air show in 2017 to reach predetermined targets and objectives we have reluctantly decided not to pursue the option of a 2019 show."

Or some other equally meaningless marketing department drivel; though their version will probably run to 500 words when it could have been said in one sentence.



Albeit an article from The Guardian in late November seems losing an airshow is the least of the military's worries:

The Ministry of Defence is bracing for what one Whitehall official has described as “brutal” cuts in a security review scheduled to be announced early next year. The scale of proposed cutbacks in the army, navy and air force has created alarm within the MoD and poses a major headache for the new defence secretary, Gavin Williamson. The Times reported that Tobias Ellwood, the minister in charge of personnel and veterans and a lieutenant-colonel in the army reserve, is threatening to resign if the army, which has already been reduced to 82,000, is cut back further. The Cabinet Office review is looking at 12 different strands of UK security including the intelligence services MI5 and MI6 and the surveillance agency GCHQ, as well as the MoD. Against a background of increased terrorist attacks this year, the intelligence agencies appear to be escaping lightly while the armed services take the brunt of the cuts.

The MoD has drawn up a list of options for cuts, resultingfrom a budget squeeze and a planned shift to projects judged to be more relevant to modern warfare. One of the key planned changes is to devote more resources to cyberwarfare given the threat posed by hackers to essential supplies and to an increased use of drones, robots and artificial intelligence. The MoD is also looking at ways to better combat the kind of hybrid warfare that Russia has engaged in in eastern Ukraine, a mixture of irregular forces and psychological operations. Areas vulnerable to cuts are the marines and amphibious vessels. Other budget-saving measures could include delays in building frigates or reducing the number of F-35s bought for two new aircraft carriers. An ambitious army plan to be able to deploy a new 30,000-strong division by 2025 could be in jeopardy. The two new aircraft carriers, regarded by some within the MoD as vanity projects, would have been high on the list for axing at an earlier stage. The replacement for Trident nuclear programme, including our new submarines, is one of the costliest parts of the £36bn defence budget but is viewed by the MoD as untouchable.

The Cabinet Office exercise began as a mini-review that has since turned into a major defence review even though the last one was only completed in 2015. Recently-retired senior officers, giving evidence earlier this month to the Commons defence committee, expressed concern that the armed forces are no longer fit for purpose and the army is 20 years out of date. Gen Sir Richard Barrons, who retired last year as commander of joint forces command, said the armed forces were close to breaking point, with the navy underfunded and the air force at the edge of its engineering capacity. The review is being headed by Mark Sedwill, a diplomat who served in Afghanistan and is now the national security adviser at the Cabinet Office.
Berf

Re: Scampton Airshow 2018

Postby RIAT Air Ops on Wed 03 Jan 2018, 11:56 am

XP282 wrote:
andrewn wrote:But the implication being that RAF/MOD/MAA have no appetite for air displays and were more than happy to see Scampton fail? Or am I reading too much into this?


No, the fact that the opportunity to get some really interesting aircraft to the show were turned down because ‘that’s not how it’s done anymore’. The days of actually inviting people to your airshow seem to be long gone! As I said, this isn’t a critism of the people at Scampton - one person in particular who I know worked tirelessly to make the show a success. Someone who I have a great amount of respect for.


XP282 - Interested in this comment particularly
some really interesting aircraft to the show were turned down because ‘that’s not how it’s done anymore’.


I have quite a different view to that which you express.

I respect your earlier comment not to air the washing in public so if you have an appetite to share via PM then please do.

Cheers, Tom
RIAT Air Ops

Re: Scampton Airshow 2018

Postby XP282 on Wed 03 Jan 2018, 9:00 pm

RIAT Air Ops wrote:
I respect your earlier comment not to air the washing in public so if you have an appetite to share via PM then please do.

Cheers, Tom


PM duly sent.
XP282

Re: Scampton Airshow 2018

Postby BossMann on Fri 05 Jan 2018, 7:12 am

Tom / RIAT Air Ops,

Can you give us any information on 'what went wrong' and possibly what is being looked at for the return of the scampton show in 2019?

Will it still be 'Scampton Airshow' or will it change its name as an entirely new show? Will it be the Red Arrows 55th Anniversary show?

Sanicole has shifted its date already in 2019 to the 3rd weekend in September so no potential clash in 2019 with the show that pretty much took all foreign flying displays in 2017.
BossMann

Re: Scampton Airshow 2018

Postby Berf on Fri 05 Jan 2018, 9:18 am

BossMann wrote:Tom / RIAT Air Ops,

Can you give us any information on 'what went wrong' and possibly what is being looked at for the return of the scampton show in 2019?

Will it still be 'Scampton Airshow' or will it change its name as an entirely new show? Will it be the Red Arrows 55th Anniversary show?

Sanicole has shifted its date already in 2019 to the 3rd weekend in September so no potential clash in 2019 with the show that pretty much took all foreign flying displays in 2017.



Not sure what this has to do with Tom why don't you try asking Scampton Airshow Ltd. I am sure Tom is far to busy sorting out the Chinese for RIAT :smile:
Berf

Re: Scampton Airshow 2018

Postby capercaillie on Fri 05 Jan 2018, 9:33 am

Berf wrote:
BossMann wrote:Tom / RIAT Air Ops,

Can you give us any information on 'what went wrong' and possibly what is being looked at for the return of the scampton show in 2019?

Will it still be 'Scampton Airshow' or will it change its name as an entirely new show? Will it be the Red Arrows 55th Anniversary show?

Sanicole has shifted its date already in 2019 to the 3rd weekend in September so no potential clash in 2019 with the show that pretty much took all foreign flying displays in 2017.



Not sure what this has to do with Tom why don't you try asking Scampton Airshow Ltd. I am sure Tom is far to busy sorting out the Chinese for RIAT :smile:


As well as the Indian, the Mexican, the pizza, the hog roast.........
"The surrogate voice of st24"
User avatar
capercaillie

Re: Scampton Airshow 2018

Postby XP282 on Fri 05 Jan 2018, 9:01 pm

Spotty_Jag wrote:
XP282 wrote:The days of actually inviting people to your airshow seem to be long gone!

You think air arms of the world turn up of their own accord at Fairford/Yeovilton/Biggin Hill/Cosford etc each year then? :facepalm:


No Spotty_Jag... thats not what I'm saying. Of course they wouldn't. But there is a difference between writing to an air attache at embassy somewhere and going out and inviting people directly. Thats the point I'm trying to make. Once upon a time, airshow organisers would walk around other airshows inviting aircraft directly. That no longer seems to happen.
XP282

PreviousNext

Return to Scampton Airshow

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: MKR and 1 guest