Scampton Airshow 2018

Re: Scampton Airshow 2018

Postby XX752 on Fri 10 Aug 2018, 7:47 am

Finningley Boy wrote:
XX752 wrote:
MiG_Eater wrote:But the point is, I can't help but think the hiding the show took from websites like this in some ways contributed to its demise. It certainly didn't help.

I guess BossMann's enthusiasm is the opposite. Maybe it will make a difference, maybe not - but I can't see that it will cause any harm; and it may just offer some encouragement.

Airshows are more important to people than many realise!


The comments on here did not contribute to it's demise, as a matter of fact the organisers seem to largely ignore pretty much anything that was put to them - poor line up, not value for money etc.

The initial feedback and press releases were indeed very positive, all that changed when it became apparent behind the scenes that Scampton was going to close - an airshow could not be seen to establish and grow on a base that is scheduled to close.


I certainly missed something here, the first I knew Scampton was going to close was last month not last year. When did you find out?

FB


Do you really believe the decision to close Scampton was only taken last month? This decision was taken some time before it was announced to the public. I think the first pointers were when the Defence minister during an interview he gave last year at Waddington to BBC Look North mentioned how important the RAF are in Lincolnshire and how they would continue to be so in the future, listing all the RAF bases in the county except Scampton, suggesting the decision was either taken or under consideration back then.
XX752

Re: Scampton Airshow 2018

Postby Finningley Boy on Fri 10 Aug 2018, 8:56 am

XX752 wrote:
Finningley Boy wrote:
XX752 wrote:
MiG_Eater wrote:But the point is, I can't help but think the hiding the show took from websites like this in some ways contributed to its demise. It certainly didn't help.

I guess BossMann's enthusiasm is the opposite. Maybe it will make a difference, maybe not - but I can't see that it will cause any harm; and it may just offer some encouragement.

Airshows are more important to people than many realise!


The comments on here did not contribute to it's demise, as a matter of fact the organisers seem to largely ignore pretty much anything that was put to them - poor line up, not value for money etc.

The initial feedback and press releases were indeed very positive, all that changed when it became apparent behind the scenes that Scampton was going to close - an airshow could not be seen to establish and grow on a base that is scheduled to close.


I certainly missed something here, the first I knew Scampton was going to close was last month not last year. When did you find out?

FB


Do you really believe the decision to close Scampton was only taken last month? This decision was taken some time before it was announced to the public. I think the first pointers were when the Defence minister during an interview he gave last year at Waddington to BBC Look North mentioned how important the RAF are in Lincolnshire and how they would continue to be so in the future, listing all the RAF bases in the county except Scampton, suggesting the decision was either taken or under consideration back then.

No XX752, for Heaven's sake, I'm sure the decision wasn't taken last month, but the public announcement was. As for the cryptic analysis of the minister's comments, no, I wasn't aware of his comments and predictions for the future here on UKAR may chime with events from time to time, with the degree of constant negativity its inevitable that some blows will land. But I was going by official announcements only, not the rumour mill.

FB
I have danced the skies on laughter-silvered wings!
Finningley Boy

Re: Scampton Airshow 2018

Postby BossMann on Sat 11 Aug 2018, 12:09 pm

From the above MAYBE RAFCTE knew about this last year and that's why they pulled the plug on the 2018 airshow so thy would not have to invest funds to sort out a site that is being disposed of......

But it is all speculation at present.

As mentioned by others above I'm sure RAFCTE will let us know when they are ready and hopefully let us know what their plans are for the new East of England Airshow venue if any.

I'm not really sure what other airfields there are in the 'East of England' that could accommodate a full military airshow..... I assume ex RAF Cottesmore/ Kendrew Barracks would be in contention as a previous RIAT host airfield? RAF Honington? Humberside Airport?

There used to be an airshow called Big Thunder Airshow which was held in the East Midlands somewhere but I don't know where ?? there was the Leicester International airshow in the 1990's too I think at Stoughton/ Leicester Airport but I don't think that is suitable now.
BossMann

Re: Scampton Airshow 2018

Postby Finningley Boy on Sat 11 Aug 2018, 1:39 pm

BossMann wrote:From the above MAYBE RAFCTE knew about this last year and that's why they pulled the plug on the 2018 airshow so thy would not have to invest funds to sort out a site that is being disposed of......

But it is all speculation at present.

As mentioned by others above I'm sure RAFCTE will let us know when they are ready and hopefully let us know what their plans are for the new East of England Airshow venue if any.

I'm not really sure what other airfields there are in the 'East of England' that could accommodate a full military airshow..... I assume ex RAF Cottesmore/ Kendrew Barracks would be in contention as a previous RIAT host airfield? RAF Honington? Humberside Airport?

There used to be an airshow called Big Thunder Airshow which was held in the East Midlands somewhere but I don't know where ?? there was the Leicester International airshow in the 1990's too I think at Stoughton/ Leicester Airport but I don't think that is suitable now.


BossMan,

If they knew last year for certain that the station was going to close, like some posters, then I don't think much of their antics. They have led everyone to imagine there is a chance that the show will return in 2019. If they were aware that the station was likely going to close, but not this year, then that would not necessarily prevent them from holding an air show this year. I therefore think their claim to have not made sufficient revenue for this year's show to go ahead with a display in 2018 without some in depth post-mortem, is honest. They have, as you'll be aware, yet to announce whether or not they will stage another air show? and where?

FB
I have danced the skies on laughter-silvered wings!
Finningley Boy

Re: Scampton Airshow 2018

Postby iainpeden on Sat 11 Aug 2018, 9:08 pm

BossMann wrote:I'm not really sure what other airfields there are in the 'East of England' that could accommodate a full military airshow..... I assume ex RAF Cottesmore/ Kendrew Barracks would be in contention as a previous RIAT host airfield? RAF Honington? Humberside Airport?

There used to be an airshow called Big Thunder Airshow which was held in the East Midlands somewhere but I don't know where ?? there was the Leicester International airshow in the 1990's too I think at Stoughton/ Leicester Airport but I don't think that is suitable now.


The RAF Cottesmore runway has not received any maintenance since the Harriers left and the approach lights have been removed anyway; Big Thunder was at Bruntingthorpe which is now full of cars and I doubt you could get any jet larger than a JP into Leicester.
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iainpeden

Re: Scampton Airshow 2018

Postby Finningley Boy on Sun 12 Aug 2018, 8:30 am

iainpeden wrote:
BossMann wrote:I'm not really sure what other airfields there are in the 'East of England' that could accommodate a full military airshow..... I assume ex RAF Cottesmore/ Kendrew Barracks would be in contention as a previous RIAT host airfield? RAF Honington? Humberside Airport?

There used to be an airshow called Big Thunder Airshow which was held in the East Midlands somewhere but I don't know where ?? there was the Leicester International airshow in the 1990's too I think at Stoughton/ Leicester Airport but I don't think that is suitable now.


The RAF Cottesmore runway has not received any maintenance since the Harriers left and the approach lights have been removed anyway; Big Thunder was at Bruntingthorpe which is now full of cars and I doubt you could get any jet larger than a JP into Leicester.


Indeed,

The only available remaining airfields are RAF ones, in the region, and they are now very few and far between. RAFCTE should approach their beneficiaries and ask if they would lend them another one of those to stage the air show? :biggrin:

FB
I have danced the skies on laughter-silvered wings!
Finningley Boy

Re: Scampton Airshow 2018

Postby BossMann on Sun 12 Aug 2018, 11:37 am

I guess you are right, the RAF continued to hold airshows at RAF Finingley until 1994 when the base physically closed its doors and the organisers made the swift move to RAF Waddington so in theory RAFCTE could still use Scampton until its doors close in 2022.... but it may make more logistical sense to pick another venue that won't involve them having to move in the near future

The current other operational RAF bases in the 'east of England' and therefore potential venues are:

RAF Coningsby – is it too busy at the weekend to host an airshow?
RAF Waddington – venue of ‘ex RAF Airshow’ but airshow was kicked out due to runway repairs/ security issue due to ISTAR base
RAF Syerston – current home to the gliding school and new aviation academy?? Potential??
RAF Cranwell – is there enough space for an airshow?
RAF Barkston Heath - ?? potential
RAF Wittering – mentioned issues of proximity to A1 but otherwise good size ?? potential
RAF Honington – ?? potential
RAF Marham – again is it too busy to host an airshow at a weekend?
RAF Wyton – ?? Potential

RAF Mildenhall – USAF going to leave soon, home of ex RAF Mildenhall Air Fete?? potential
RAF Lakenheath – too busy with USAF stuff?

Apologies if I have missed any other bases, I haven't included north Yorkshire so not included RAF Leeming/ Topcliffe / Linton (closing anyway) as I am not sure what the RAFCTEs catchment of 'East on England' is exactly

Also the future home of the Reds could be a possibility as it will have the training airspace and hence no airspace issues or issues with surrounding housing etc... but no one knows where that is going to be .....

Hopefully at some point RAFCTE will tell us what their plans are, but I guess they have a lot of thinking to do before they decide themselves.

Good luck to Duxford as the RAF100 finale show ( was going to be Scampton originally ) - I wonder if Scampton had the RAF displays/ flypasts announced for Duxford plus some foreign Military displays given that the Belgian Air Days haven't taken absolutely everything like Sanicole did last year RAF Scampton 2018 could have been a success.... I guess we'll never know
BossMann

Re: Scampton Airshow 2018

Postby Finningley Boy on Sun 12 Aug 2018, 3:17 pm

Boss Man,

Looking at your list I think Honington and Wyton are no longer or soon to be no longer active!? As for Coningsby, the RAF used to hold a regular air day here from about 1977 up to 1993. In all that time the Base was quite busy, as was Leuchars throughout the time that it hosted the only Battle of Britain at home North of the Border. I can't quite imagine why Coningsby is any the more rushed off its feet now compared with then at the height of the cold war, introducing the Tornado ADV into service, maintaining Southern QRA etc? What is noticeably different other than more units and personnel, there is an argument here that they are better disposed toward staging an air show. Lakenheath, same here, though not as bust as when they had the F-111Fs. Four Squadrons instead of three. Yet they often held an open house, I think the honest truth is that military ethos has drifted away from seeing the prestige and efficacy of air shows as a form of opening up the books to let the tax payer have a scan at what the air arm end of their defence budget GBPs are being spent on. However, we'll see what tomorrow brings, as I've said, we've yet to get a response from the RAFCTE about their intentions. So far they haven't uttered a peep about the official public announcement of the closure of RAF Scampton.

FB :cuppa:

PS What about Leeming, or here's an off the wall suggestion for those who truly believe we are the United Kingdom, what about Leuchars :hide:
I have danced the skies on laughter-silvered wings!
Finningley Boy

Re: Scampton Airshow 2018

Postby rockfordstone on Mon 13 Aug 2018, 3:24 pm

BossMann wrote:I guess you are right, the RAF continued to hold airshows at RAF Finingley until 1994 when the base physically closed its doors and the organisers made the swift move to RAF Waddington so in theory RAFCTE could still use Scampton until its doors close in 2022.... but it may make more logistical sense to pick another venue that won't involve them having to move in the near future

The current other operational RAF bases in the 'east of England' and therefore potential venues are:

RAF Coningsby – is it too busy at the weekend to host an airshow?
RAF Waddington – venue of ‘ex RAF Airshow’ but airshow was kicked out due to runway repairs/ security issue due to ISTAR base
RAF Syerston – current home to the gliding school and new aviation academy?? Potential??
RAF Cranwell – is there enough space for an airshow?
RAF Barkston Heath - ?? potential
RAF Wittering – mentioned issues of proximity to A1 but otherwise good size ?? potential
RAF Honington – ?? potential
RAF Marham – again is it too busy to host an airshow at a weekend?
RAF Wyton – ?? Potential

RAF Mildenhall – USAF going to leave soon, home of ex RAF Mildenhall Air Fete?? potential
RAF Lakenheath – too busy with USAF stuff?

Apologies if I have missed any other bases, I haven't included north Yorkshire so not included RAF Leeming/ Topcliffe / Linton (closing anyway) as I am not sure what the RAFCTEs catchment of 'East on England' is exactly

Also the future home of the Reds could be a possibility as it will have the training airspace and hence no airspace issues or issues with surrounding housing etc... but no one knows where that is going to be .....

Hopefully at some point RAFCTE will tell us what their plans are, but I guess they have a lot of thinking to do before they decide themselves.

Good luck to Duxford as the RAF100 finale show ( was going to be Scampton originally ) - I wonder if Scampton had the RAF displays/ flypasts announced for Duxford plus some foreign Military displays given that the Belgian Air Days haven't taken absolutely everything like Sanicole did last year RAF Scampton 2018 could have been a success.... I guess we'll never know


Much of Wyton's runway is closed fenced off now, part of it is leased as storage for a local firm, the rest has recently been leased out to store cars on. i would imagine the locals would complain as the ex forces housing is now private. there is also the A428 which runs next to it. I'd love one there though as I only live in the next town over.
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rockfordstone

Re: Scampton Airshow 2018

Postby BossMann on Sun 19 Aug 2018, 1:09 pm

Could Elvington fit into the East of England category???

I know it used to host the 'Great Yorkshire Airshow' in the past that was well attended so must be able to cope with a big airshow, I don't know why the show stopped or what the state is of the airfield though currently or what the airspace restrictions are (if any?), the Vulcan did used to go there to practise its displays....

its great to see that RIAT has already started promoting RIAT 2019 on its website/ social media..... hoping something from them soon about the east of england show..
BossMann

Re: Scampton Airshow 2018

Postby Tommy on Sun 19 Aug 2018, 8:56 pm

BossMann wrote: hoping something from them soon about the east of england show..


I share your aspirations, but I think you should, for the sake of your own sanity, try not to take the “East of England” as written. It was an aspiration, nothing more. It was “every ambition”. I know, because it was me in the room asking the question.

I hope some notable show returns to the East, much like everyone else, and if not by DBH, then someone else. But I think first and foremost, BM, you have to accept that Scampton is gone, Waddington is gone, and as of right now, there is no other “replacement”, “alternative”, “back up” call it what you will.

If something toodles along in the future and surprises us all (much like Scampton did when it was announced), then good oh, cricket, tippy top and all that. Until then, I think you have to, at some point, accept the situation in front of you.

“Every ambition” to return to the East of England and “we will” return are two very different things.
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Tommy
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Re: Scampton Airshow 2018

Postby Finningley Boy on Sun 19 Aug 2018, 9:26 pm

Has there been an official announcement declaring that Scampton air show has been ended?

FB
I have danced the skies on laughter-silvered wings!
Finningley Boy

Re: Scampton Airshow 2018

Postby nighthawk999 on Sun 19 Aug 2018, 9:40 pm

The Bruntingthorpe one was called"Rolling Thunder"and was stopped,so I believe,due to a number of objectors in the village.The last show at Stoughton was in 1995,I went to it and cannot recall anything other than a SeaKing and two heli pleasure flights landing on.

I wrote to the organisers afterwards and was told that it was the last show there due to a number of sponsors pulling out to support the big military shows instead.Also it gained a bad reputation locally,which people still talk about even now,due to the horrendous traffic queues exiting afterwards.
nighthawk999

Re: Scampton Airshow 2018

Postby stevie on Mon 20 Aug 2018, 8:59 am

Bruntingthorpe held three major full blown airshows in 1993,94 & 95 called the 'Big Thunder Airshow' & a smaller low-key event called 'Rolling Thunder' in 96 with a few flying items but mainly featuring fast runs from the Museum aircraft.

The final Leicester Airshow at Stoughton was in 1996. (Nighthawk999 - the 95 event featured both the Dutch F-27 & PC-7 if that refreshes your memory?)

Zero chance of a full blown show (Scampton style) being held at Bruntingthorpe right now & Leicester wouldn't have the aircraft parking space or long enough runway..& as pointed out in the previous post, the locals wouldn't be happy at either venue.

It was a shame to lose both these events from the airshow calender, Leicester's show especially as it could trace it's origins back to the 1930's.

Steve
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stevie

Re: Scampton Airshow 2018

Postby XX752 on Wed 22 Aug 2018, 2:24 pm

[quote="BossMann"]I guess you are right, the RAF continued to hold airshows at RAF Finingley until 1994 when the base physically closed its doors and the organisers made the swift move to RAF Waddington so in theory RAFCTE could still use Scampton until its doors close in 2022.... but it may make more logistical sense to pick another venue that won't involve them having to move in the near future

The current other operational RAF bases in the 'east of England' and therefore potential venues are:

RAF Coningsby – is it too busy at the weekend to host an airshow?
RAF Waddington – venue of ‘ex RAF Airshow’ but airshow was kicked out due to runway repairs/ security issue due to ISTAR base
RAF Syerston – current home to the gliding school and new aviation academy?? Potential??
RAF Cranwell – is there enough space for an airshow?
RAF Barkston Heath - ?? potential
RAF Wittering – mentioned issues of proximity to A1 but otherwise good size ?? potential
RAF Honington – ?? potential
RAF Marham – again is it too busy to host an airshow at a weekend?
RAF Wyton – ?? Potential

RAF Mildenhall – USAF going to leave soon, home of ex RAF Mildenhall Air Fete?? potential
RAF Lakenheath – too busy with USAF stuff?

With current RAF policy / thinking anywhere frontline seems to be out of the equation - that rules out Coningsby, Waddington and Marham and the Americans are extra security conscious which means those bases are ruled out.

Both Wyton and Honnington now have unusable airfields which limits anything on static to light aircraft and rotary so on that basis those two would be a no.

Which leaves us with:

Syerston - A base where which has seen little expenditure airfield wise since the 1970s save for a new hangar for the gliding school. The runways can certainly accommodate aircraft up to King Air size but I'm unsure of there suitability beyond that.
Cranwell - Plenty of room for parking (the north grass airfield could be used) and plenty of space for static and display aircraft, an ideal location but would the RAF be willing to let the public in? South side of airfield could be used to keep public away from buildings etc.
Barkeston Heath - Unsure of the condition of the runways for heavier types but plenty of space for parking, both cars and aircraft. Does lack facilities but could be a suitable location.
Wittering - Large airfield, lots of space for parking cars and aircraft, could accommodate pretty much anything, disadvantage is close to the A1, some military uses may prevent the RAF permitting public access. Airshow traffic could be routed via the Collyweston end off the A47. North side of airfield could be used possibly to keep public away from buildings etc.
XX752

Re: Scampton Airshow 2018

Postby Finningley Boy on Thu 23 Aug 2018, 4:21 pm

XX752 wrote:
BossMann wrote:I guess you are right, the RAF continued to hold airshows at RAF Finingley until 1994 when the base physically closed its doors and the organisers made the swift move to RAF Waddington so in theory RAFCTE could still use Scampton until its doors close in 2022.... but it may make more logistical sense to pick another venue that won't involve them having to move in the near future

The current other operational RAF bases in the 'east of England' and therefore potential venues are:

RAF Coningsby – is it too busy at the weekend to host an airshow?
RAF Waddington – venue of ‘ex RAF Airshow’ but airshow was kicked out due to runway repairs/ security issue due to ISTAR base
RAF Syerston – current home to the gliding school and new aviation academy?? Potential??
RAF Cranwell – is there enough space for an airshow?
RAF Barkston Heath - ?? potential
RAF Wittering – mentioned issues of proximity to A1 but otherwise good size ?? potential
RAF Honington – ?? potential
RAF Marham – again is it too busy to host an airshow at a weekend?
RAF Wyton – ?? Potential

RAF Mildenhall – USAF going to leave soon, home of ex RAF Mildenhall Air Fete?? potential
RAF Lakenheath – too busy with USAF stuff?

With current RAF policy / thinking anywhere frontline seems to be out of the equation - that rules out Coningsby, Waddington and Marham and the Americans are extra security conscious which means those bases are ruled out.

Both Wyton and Honnington now have unusable airfields which limits anything on static to light aircraft and rotary so on that basis those two would be a no.

Which leaves us with:

Syerston - A base where which has seen little expenditure airfield wise since the 1970s save for a new hangar for the gliding school. The runways can certainly accommodate aircraft up to King Air size but I'm unsure of there suitability beyond that.
Cranwell - Plenty of room for parking (the north grass airfield could be used) and plenty of space for static and display aircraft, an ideal location but would the RAF be willing to let the public in? South side of airfield could be used to keep public away from buildings etc.
Barkeston Heath - Unsure of the condition of the runways for heavier types but plenty of space for parking, both cars and aircraft. Does lack facilities but could be a suitable location.
Wittering - Large airfield, lots of space for parking cars and aircraft, could accommodate pretty much anything, disadvantage is close to the A1, some military uses may prevent the RAF permitting public access. Airshow traffic could be routed via the Collyweston end off the A47. North side of airfield could be used possibly to keep public away from buildings etc.


Just reading the comments above is most depressing. The whole idea of inviting the public onto an RAF or USAF airfield, same as at Cosford and Yeovilton still, is to invite the public to spend the day with the RAF/USAF/RN. Now we're talking about keeping the public away from Buildings, concern that the mere presence of either the RAF or USAF in any capacity would be enough to counter the thought of holding an air show. Is this what they mean about the Terrorists winning. All through the 1970s and 1980s, the IRA were a very prevalent threat, but what a contrast between then and now.

FB :cuppa:
I have danced the skies on laughter-silvered wings!
Finningley Boy

Re: Scampton Airshow 2018

Postby MiG_Eater on Thu 06 Sep 2018, 1:31 pm

Well, it would have been today that i'd be heading down to Scampton. I actually did book a hotel as soon as the dates were announced last year (luckily no cancellation fees) and I was certainly looking forward to what this year held.

A lot of people slated Scampton, but given the opportunity - I think most of us would have gladly taken the day off to go and see the SwAFHF arrive, or visit the airfield over the weekend to see the flying display that was on offer last year - especially the opportunity to see a Lancaster flying over such a historic airfield.

I only hope something comes up to replace it one of these days.
MiG_Eater

Re: Scampton Airshow 2018

Postby BossMann on Sat 08 Sep 2018, 11:20 am

Indeed this would have been Scampton Airshow weekend, which if RAFCTE had taken on board the feedback from the 2017 could have been much better with an excellent military flying display

Yes RAFCTE made some errors with the first show, especially with the flying display, but it was the first full show outside of RIAT - errors that could have easily been fixed for future years.

The Belgian Air Days aren't as good as sanicole last year so RAF Scampton could have had a good line up, especially if the RAF line up that is going to Duxford was coming to Scampton instead - could have been a fitting farewell to RAF Scampton prior to its closure whilst they looked for a replacement airfield for the future

However it didn't happen..... possibly because RAFCTE knew of RAF Scamptons fate?? which is understandable I guess

The Scampton Airshow website has also gone now.... re-directed to RIAT's website

It was an honour to be present on this historic air base this time last year.....

RIP Scampton Airshow, again I only hope that RAFCTE can consider replacing it with another show at an airfield/ air base with a more secure future, until then we have RAFCTE's RIAT in July but nothing much after that unless we look to Europe for the big military airshows in August/ September
BossMann

Re: Scampton Airshow 2018

Postby cg_341 on Sat 08 Sep 2018, 12:03 pm

BossMann wrote:The Belgian Air Days aren't as good as sanicole last year so RAF Scampton could have had a good line up

Yeah, they're not as good. I mean...

Austrian Alouette
Czech Gripen
Danish Baby Blue, Saab T17, Merlin, and F-16
French Rafale, PdF, EC130, Tigre, Caiman, and Xingu
German Eurofighter, Dornier, and Tornado
Greek F-16
Italian F-35
NATO E-3
Polish Mi17
Portuguese Merlin
Spanish F-18
Slovak MiG-29, and C-27
Dutch Chinook, Apache, and KDC-10
Ukranian Su-27
British Merlin, Hawk, and Typhoon

Looks like a crap event really. Not sure Scampton could have competed with that, even if it was on! Oh and the weather at Scampton is rubbish today anyway so if I had the choice, I'd have been in Belgium.
cg_341

Re: Scampton Airshow 2018

Postby Abbo46 on Sat 08 Sep 2018, 12:05 pm

Couldn't agree more.
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Abbo46

Re: Scampton Airshow 2018

Postby Finningley Boy on Mon 10 Sep 2018, 10:58 pm

So despite all the sloping about shutting sown the website and subsuming it into the RIAT one, what official announcements have been made? Do we think we will receive the honour of an official announcement? Or have the organisers merely allowed themselves to be rail roaded with the constant assumptions, such as on UKAR, that an event at Scampton is not expected?!?

FB
I have danced the skies on laughter-silvered wings!
Finningley Boy

Re: Scampton Airshow 2018

Postby UKAirshowTour on Tue 11 Sep 2018, 9:05 am

Would be nice to know. I was looking forward to doing the p&v again
UKAirshowTour

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