RAF Scampton Air Show 2017

Re: RAF Scampton Air Show 2017

Postby scottspencer on Sat 09 Sep 2017, 5:44 pm

Aye he said one had a baby a day or so ago
scottspencer

Re: RAF Scampton Air Show 2017

Postby harkins on Sat 09 Sep 2017, 6:12 pm

I'll probably get slaughtered for saying this, but he's in the armed forces and on top of that a lot of people have paid good money to see them perform. Tech issues are bad luck, but paternity leave - seriously? Does a front line sniper drop his rifle and stand up in Afghanistan? Does an MI6 agent drop cover and catch the next plane home? What about submariners on the deterrent subs, surface and head for the nearest port to drop dad off?

Not much gone right for this air show.
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harkins

Re: RAF Scampton Air Show 2017

Postby davidjones533 on Sat 09 Sep 2017, 6:18 pm

This isn't the front line though is it? It's just an airshow. Speaking as someone who's first child is due in a couple of weeks, I wouldn't miss it for the world.

Ps. Hope it doesn't come while I'm at Sanicole tomorrow!
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davidjones533

Re: RAF Scampton Air Show 2017

Postby AngryAndyPandy on Sat 09 Sep 2017, 6:19 pm

harkins wrote:I'll probably get slaughtered for saying this, but he's in the armed forces and on top of that a lot of people have paid good money to see them perform. Tech issues are bad luck, but paternity leave - seriously? Does a front line sniper drop his rifle and stand up in Afghanistan? Does an MI6 agent drop cover and catch the next plane home? What about submariners on the deterrent subs, surface and head for the nearest port to drop dad off?

Not much gone right for this air show.



Some quite poorly chosen comparisons if I'm honest. I understand the reason but an airshow doesn't really compare to those sitations. It's not exactly fair to deprive him of something like that when national security isn't a factor etc etc. And if I'm not ill-informed, if soldiers are deployed I'm pretty sure they're shipped home as soon as possible for maternity reasons.
AngryAndyPandy

Re: RAF Scampton Air Show 2017

Postby minnie the moocher on Sat 09 Sep 2017, 6:25 pm

Just reviewed our departure time for the morning. Just spoken to somebody who was there today and using the shuttle bus - advice is get there plenty early to get through the traffic and then get a bus
minnie the moocher

Re: RAF Scampton Air Show 2017

Postby CJS on Sat 09 Sep 2017, 6:52 pm

Obviously it's a no brainer about the paternity leave thing, an airshow is not something to miss out those first special days for, even if you are a Red Arrows pilot! I wonder if it's ever been considered that one or two of the pilots could work up either a solo or pairs Hawk demo in addition to the Reds display? I appreciate it would be more work and that they're not exactly sitting sound twiddling their thumbs in the run up to the season, but even if it was a version of the synchro pair routine, it would leave them with another option if the wrong two jets were to go tech.

Anyway, how was the rest of the show today?
"Forewarned is forearmed"
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CJS

Re: RAF Scampton Air Show 2017

Postby scottspencer on Sat 09 Sep 2017, 6:55 pm

Really enjoyed it. Good variety and unlike a lot of shows hardly any gaps in the flying display (apart from the Reds problem and the other texh aircraft), mostly one display was finishing/landing and the next was ready to take off.
scottspencer

Re: RAF Scampton Air Show 2017

Postby BrawlerO on Sat 09 Sep 2017, 7:29 pm

harkins wrote:I'll probably get slaughtered for saying this, but he's in the armed forces and on top of that a lot of people have paid good money to see them perform. Tech issues are bad luck, but paternity leave - seriously?


Do they not have a reserve pilot? Baby issues aside, what happens if one of them gets ill?
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BrawlerO

Re: RAF Scampton Air Show 2017

Postby aceyone on Sat 09 Sep 2017, 7:32 pm

BrawlerO wrote:
harkins wrote:I'll probably get slaughtered for saying this, but he's in the armed forces and on top of that a lot of people have paid good money to see them perform. Tech issues are bad luck, but paternity leave - seriously?


Do they not have a reserve pilot? Baby issues aside, what happens if one of them gets ill?


No ,they don't have a reserve pilot !
take only photos,leave only footprints
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aceyone

Re: RAF Scampton Air Show 2017

Postby andrewn on Sat 09 Sep 2017, 7:52 pm

scottspencer wrote:Really enjoyed it. Good variety and unlike a lot of shows hardly any gaps in the flying display (apart from the Reds problem and the other texh aircraft), mostly one display was finishing/landing and the next was ready to take off.


Agreed, it was a good first effort.
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andrewn

Re: RAF Scampton Air Show 2017

Postby scottspencer on Sat 09 Sep 2017, 7:55 pm

Was very surprised at the little gaps though, with a lot theres some large gaps between displays which turns a 5 hour display into more like 3.5 or so, which wasnt the case today!
scottspencer

Re: RAF Scampton Air Show 2017

Postby B_Tank88 on Sat 09 Sep 2017, 8:01 pm

Promising, I'm attending tomorrow :cool:
B_Tank88

Re: RAF Scampton Air Show 2017

Postby Finningley Boy on Sat 09 Sep 2017, 8:08 pm

Having been among the detractors over the weeks, months I will also say it was a pretty good show. The flying was very good the Typhoon solo the best I've seen for a while having secured the right weather break. Both him and the French Alpha Jet reminded me why it is best of all to use a large military airfield with its own controlled airspace up to the heavens and beyond in order to put on a really good flying display, aircraft appeared not at all distant and could utilise all the sky as a stage. The Vampires restricted from aerobatics along with the JP/Strike master duo made the most of the conditions despite the imposed restrictions, hopefully will be lifted once the CAA get over the psychological block about ex-military jets in private hands again. What did strike me was the dilapidated state of the infrastructure of what is an RAF primary flying station, albeit once again. The Officers' Mess looked abandoned, indeed it was. Do the RAF personnel stationed at Scampton have their accommodation elsewhere? Waddington, Coningsby, Cranwell perhaps? :cuppa:

Anyway, all the best to the organisers for next year, I see they've set 8th and 9th September 2018 for the next air show! I trust they'll have their Ducks in a row this time and attract some more impressive items. Also, it would improve the static if they could secure some heavies next time. But all in all, not bad. Looking forward (fingers crossed :wink: ) to next year.

FB :biggrin:
I have danced the skies on laughter-silvered wings!
Finningley Boy

Re: RAF Scampton Air Show 2017

Postby wv383 on Sat 09 Sep 2017, 8:12 pm

aceyone wrote:
BrawlerO wrote:
harkins wrote:I'll probably get slaughtered for saying this, but he's in the armed forces and on top of that a lot of people have paid good money to see them perform. Tech issues are bad luck, but paternity leave - seriously?


Do they not have a reserve pilot? Baby issues aside, what happens if one of them gets ill?


No ,they don't have a reserve pilot !


Well said! How could they have one reserve pilot. He would have to train every position in the formation and every single manoeuvre. Impossible.
wv383

Re: RAF Scampton Air Show 2017

Postby aviodromefriend on Sat 09 Sep 2017, 8:15 pm

BrawlerO wrote:what happens if one of them gets ill?
If it is one dropping out, they fly with 8 aircraft the same routine as they do with 9. If more than one drops out they fly only the enid or gypo bit (if the pilots dropping out are in the same segment) or they stay on the ground. (I've seen all of these possibilities.)
A weather forecast is a forecast and just that

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aviodromefriend

Re: RAF Scampton Air Show 2017

Postby The Baron on Sat 09 Sep 2017, 8:15 pm

Scampton is the home base. It's not like you're expecting him to clear off for a day, or whole weekend. You're talking a couple hours each day?
Loafer for Mr. Da Vinci.
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The Baron

Re: RAF Scampton Air Show 2017

Postby wv383 on Sat 09 Sep 2017, 8:17 pm

Finningley Boy wrote:Having been among the detractors over the weeks, months I will also say it was a pretty good show. The flying was very good the Typhoon solo the best I've seen for a while having secured the right weather break. Both him and the French Alpha Jet reminded me why it is best of all to use a large military airfield with its own controlled airspace up to the heavens and beyond in order to put on a really good flying display, aircraft appeared not at all distant and could utilise all the sky as a stage. The Vampires restricted from aerobatics along with the JP/Strike master duo made the most of the conditions despite the imposed restrictions, hopefully will be lifted once the CAA get over the psychological block about ex-military jets in private hands again. What did strike me was the dilapidated state of the infrastructure of what is an RAF primary flying station, albeit once again. The Officers' Mess looked abandoned, indeed it was. Do the RAF personnel stationed at Scampton have their accommodation elsewhere? Waddington, Coningsby, Cranwell perhaps? :cuppa:

Anyway, all the best to the organisers for next year, I see they've set 8th and 9th September 2018 for the next air show! I trust they'll have their Ducks in a row this time and attract some more impressive items. Also, it would improve the static if they could secure some heavies next time. But all in all, not bad. Looking forward (fingers crossed :wink: ) to next year.

FB :biggrin:


Don't forget that though Scampton may to all intents and purposes be an operational base, the only unit actually based there are The Red Arrows. So it's not really surprising that some parts might look decidedly under used. After all, imagine the complaints about waste of money if the whole place was kept fully uo to scratch when probably 90% of the base isn't used.
wv383

Re: RAF Scampton Air Show 2017

Postby BrawlerO on Sat 09 Sep 2017, 8:30 pm

wv383 wrote:
aceyone wrote:
BrawlerO wrote:
harkins wrote:I'll probably get slaughtered for saying this, but he's in the armed forces and on top of that a lot of people have paid good money to see them perform. Tech issues are bad luck, but paternity leave - seriously?


Do they not have a reserve pilot? Baby issues aside, what happens if one of them gets ill?


No ,they don't have a reserve pilot !


Well said! How could they have one reserve pilot. He would have to train every position in the formation and every single manoeuvre. Impossible.


Suppose that makes sense. I guess they make it look so easy but then they are the greatest display team in the world! :clap:
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BrawlerO

Re: RAF Scampton Air Show 2017

Postby davidjones533 on Sat 09 Sep 2017, 8:34 pm

The Baron wrote:Scampton is the home base. It's not like you're expecting him to clear off for a day, or whole weekend. You're talking a couple hours each day?


And what if, like most new parents, he's only had a few hours sleep in the past 24-48 hours? I wouldn't want to drive, let alone fly formation aerobatics.
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davidjones533

Re: RAF Scampton Air Show 2017

Postby bennysdad on Sat 09 Sep 2017, 8:40 pm

CJS wrote:Obviously it's a no brainer about the paternity leave thing, an airshow is not something to miss out those first special days for, even if you are a Red Arrows pilot! I wonder if it's ever been considered that one or two of the pilots could work up either a solo or pairs Hawk demo in addition to the Reds display? I appreciate it would be more work and that they're not exactly sitting sound twiddling their thumbs in the run up to the season, but even if it was a version of the synchro pair routine, it would leave them with another option if the wrong two jets were to go tech.

Anyway, how was the rest of the show today?


The flying display was better than it looked on paper beforehand. Highlights were the Belgian F16, the Alpha Jet and the 727 which did 2 very brisk spray passes with a spirited climb out. The Typhoon would have been up there with them if it had landed before its display rather than arriving and going straight into its routine and departing immediately after its final pass. Thank goodness there were no foreign teams supporting the reds at their home base. The embarrassment would have been too much to bear. When they knew they were a jet down already I would have thought a spare ready to cover for any that went tech was a reasonable plan.

The park and ride worked as well as any I have seen but trying to force motorcyclists to manoeuvre on uneven wet grass was a big no no. Fortunately all the bikers I saw had done what I did and ignored the directions of the parking staff and found their own hard standing, of which there was plenty. Next time please consider bikers unless an impromptu motocross in the car park was part of the planned entertainment.

Finally just a personal observation. This is my first visit to Scampton and I was quite looking forward to visiting this historic base. It looked sad and neglected with so many unoccupied buildings being left to rot. Please preserve it or demolish it.

I don't think this year's flying programme was worth the cost but it was a good first effort that with just a few more foreign bits of heavy metal would have justified the ticket price. Thanks to everybody who worked to make the most of what they had.
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bennysdad

Re: RAF Scampton Air Show 2017

Postby boff180 on Sat 09 Sep 2017, 8:48 pm

wv383 wrote:
Finningley Boy wrote:Having been among the detractors over the weeks, months I will also say it was a pretty good show. The flying was very good the Typhoon solo the best I've seen for a while having secured the right weather break. Both him and the French Alpha Jet reminded me why it is best of all to use a large military airfield with its own controlled airspace up to the heavens and beyond in order to put on a really good flying display, aircraft appeared not at all distant and could utilise all the sky as a stage. The Vampires restricted from aerobatics along with the JP/Strike master duo made the most of the conditions despite the imposed restrictions, hopefully will be lifted once the CAA get over the psychological block about ex-military jets in private hands again. What did strike me was the dilapidated state of the infrastructure of what is an RAF primary flying station, albeit once again. The Officers' Mess looked abandoned, indeed it was. Do the RAF personnel stationed at Scampton have their accommodation elsewhere? Waddington, Coningsby, Cranwell perhaps? :cuppa:

Anyway, all the best to the organisers for next year, I see they've set 8th and 9th September 2018 for the next air show! I trust they'll have their Ducks in a row this time and attract some more impressive items. Also, it would improve the static if they could secure some heavies next time. But all in all, not bad. Looking forward (fingers crossed :wink: ) to next year.

FB :biggrin:


Don't forget that though Scampton may to all intents and purposes be an operational base, the only unit actually based there are The Red Arrows. So it's not really surprising that some parts might look decidedly under used. After all, imagine the complaints about waste of money if the whole place was kept fully uo to scratch when probably 90% of the base isn't used.


Actually the primary unit based there is 1ACC
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boff180
UKAR Staff

Re: RAF Scampton Air Show 2017

Postby Stagger2 on Sat 09 Sep 2017, 10:10 pm

davidjones533 wrote:
The Baron wrote:Scampton is the home base. It's not like you're expecting him to clear off for a day, or whole weekend. You're talking a couple hours each day?


And what if, like most new parents, he's only had a few hours sleep in the past 24-48 hours? I wouldn't want to drive, let alone fly formation aerobatics.


Being a privileged vital member of the prestigious Red Arrows really should count for more. Sounds like he was fortunate enough to be there for the actual birth, so I'm inclined to agree that a little pride should kick-in, especially for the Home-Team inaugural Scampton event? The need to step-up was wasted!
I base this judgment on the fact that many people are not able to enjoy any part of the 'first' days due to circumstances that can't be changed. Spare a thought for the Navy guy who is maybe fortunate enough to witness the birth before leaving a week later for 6 months! As previously said, taking-out a couple of hours to do a 'local' show isn't gonna bring charges of family desertion.
With regard to sleep, the onus is on the pilot to ensure that happens even if it means getting a room elsewhere. After all, it's not like they don't have to maintain control of alcohol, diet, fitness, & mental agility just because of a newborn.
I've had two kids & life didn't stop because of that & I'm not even a vital part of a National jigsaw!
Not having a spare jet ready at your home-base is pathetic. Should've had Lingy's & the Nappy-changer's vacant seat available at least? :facepalm: The apathy is amazing, might as well save money & take just 6 to Greece!
Stagger2

Re: RAF Scampton Air Show 2017

Postby rob68 on Sat 09 Sep 2017, 10:36 pm

Had no trouble getting in but I stopped over night locally. P&R worked well in morning. Base looks as If it needs some TLC. Red skips and building rubble for a background do not make for nice shots. P&R getting out was poor, signage non existent. Got off at show ground and went to wrong car park, didn't see any signs to give a clue. Nearly £40 is expensive for what was there.
rob68

Re: RAF Scampton Air Show 2017

Postby andrewn on Sun 10 Sep 2017, 8:28 am

Stagger2 wrote:Not having a spare jet ready at your home-base is pathetic. Should've had Lingy's & the Nappy-changer's vacant seat available at least? :facepalm: The apathy is amazing, might as well save money & take just 6 to Greece!


Hi Stagger,

They did have a spare, but the decision was taken to proceed as a 4-ship only ("Gypo") as the time taken to taxi back back, get the spare, refuel, would have taken too long. Unfortunately, with the age of the jets now it's been noticeable in the last few years it is becoming more difficult to get 9 jets serviceable on a consistent basis.
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andrewn

Re: RAF Scampton Air Show 2017

Postby andrewn on Sun 10 Sep 2017, 8:35 am

bennysdad wrote:
Finally just a personal observation. This is my first visit to Scampton and I was quite looking forward to visiting this historic base. It looked sad and neglected with so many unoccupied buildings being left to rot. Please preserve it or demolish it.


Yes it is very sad. Scampton should be declared a national heritage site and maintained accordingly. If our useless Government had anything about it they'd divert a tiny % of the billions being spent on HS2 and get Scampton back into the condition it deserves. Going forwards it would then make a perfect living centre for aviation heritage - a kind of Bruntingthorpe without the commercial constraints or a Duxford with a decent runway length.

It'll never happen of course :(
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andrewn

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