Scampton Airshow 2018

Scampton Airshow 2018

Postby BossMann on Tue 19 Sep 2017, 10:39 am

So with the first event over and the dates set for 2018 to be 8/9th September, clashing with the Belgian Air Days at Kleine Brogel and the 100th anniversary of Czechoslovak air force at the Czech International Air Fest, what are our hopes and aspirations for the show in 2018?

Will RIAT Air Ops/ Scampton marketing listen to our views like they do for RIAT and address them at the new new for 2018?

For me I agree with the review of this years show on UKAR - the weakest link was the 'sea side airshow' flying display. DBH really need to sort this out in 2018. All those enthusiasts/ people that brought tickets expecting a RAFCTE mini-RIAT style international military flying display were left a little disappointed.

Hopefully next year they can get all the RAF/ AAC/ Navy displays plus any special RAF 100 flypasts ( a la RIAT ), but then target the Red Arrows 'friends' and attract foreign aerobatic teams - a 'meet' of international aerobatic teams mixing it with the top foreign solo/ duo/ heli displays - a proper military airshow at an iconic RAF base with the odd appropriate civilian display - basically a mini-RIAT flying display of at least 6/7 hours.

The event looks like a mini-RIAT from all perspectives including site layout, Park and view, ticket prices so why can the flying display not be of equal standard?
BossMann

Re: Scampton Airshow 2018

Postby capercaillie on Tue 19 Sep 2017, 12:32 pm

BossMann wrote: what are our hopes and aspirations for the show in 2018?


Minimal. :cuppa:
"The surrogate voice of st24"
User avatar
capercaillie

Re: Scampton Airshow 2018

Postby n0143773 on Tue 19 Sep 2017, 12:44 pm

BossMann wrote:so why can the flying display not be of equal standard?


You answered that earlier in your own post:

BossMann wrote:and the dates set for 2018 to be 8/9th September, clashing with the Belgian Air Days at Kleine Brogel and the 100th anniversary of Czechoslovak air force at the Czech International Air Fest
User avatar
n0143773

Re: Scampton Airshow 2018

Postby BossMann on Wed 20 Sep 2017, 2:51 pm

n0143773 wrote:
BossMann wrote:so why can the flying display not be of equal standard?


You answered that earlier in your own post:

BossMann wrote:and the dates set for 2018 to be 8/9th September, clashing with the Belgian Air Days at Kleine Brogel and the 100th anniversary of Czechoslovak air force at the Czech International Air Fest


n0143773 - whilst I don't disagree with the above, the show at Lens that was part of the 3 way clash with Sanicole this year still managed to attract the Polish Tiger F16 demo, Czech Gripen demo, Canadian F-18 flypast, Canadian 'skyhawks' parachute team, French Navy Rafale marine role demo, French Air Force Patrouille de France/ Equipe de Voltige Extra 330 duo, French Army Tigre, Belgian 109 demo, Belgian NH90 demo, Belgian Red Devils.

So I guess I am hoping that if DBH/ RIAT Air Ops don't 'forget' about the Scampton Airshow 2018 like they did this year, with the contacts etc. that they have surely they can produce a better flying display than they did this year.

Plus an added bonus Sanicole has released its dates for 2019 which are the 13/15th September so hopefully the Scampton Airshow in 2019 won't have Sanicole taking everything away assuming it sticks to the second weekend in september
BossMann

Re: Scampton Airshow 2018

Postby bennysdad on Wed 20 Sep 2017, 3:15 pm

The visit this year was not only to see an air display but also to visit an iconic RAF base. Both were disappointing. I am no longer a regular attender at air displays and I suspect the display line restrictions of even the most spirited display probably means that the actual display routines are now unlikely to be the main attraction for me. It will probably take the appearance of rare or new types of military hardware or teams to get my £40 again or a decent "naughty field" for one of the days.
User avatar
bennysdad

Re: Scampton Airshow 2018

Postby Finningley Boy on Wed 20 Sep 2017, 4:09 pm

One aspect of this year's lacklustre show is, they started planning it back in early 2016. Yet the paltry line up we got was all they achieved. What I also find sinister in its curious way is this, the organisers were keen to bill Scampton as a 'Family show'. Now that needn't mean anything specifically, but it is probably how you would choose to describe an air show with an emphasis on what we tend to call 'filler!'.

I would like to hope that the organisers; DBH/RIAT air ops, have simply dropped the Scampton Ball this year and have their finger out from here on in. That would be great. However, they seem utterly unconcerned about the overseas factor, choosing again to hold the next event on the same dates as two major events on across Europe next year. The standard explanation since the very poor Waddington line up in 2009, is that they need to rely on the availability of University accommodation. Apparently so since they aren't the RAF and can't just accommodate people on base. But the same excuse was used by the Waddington air show organisers in 2009. I would despair if they achieved nothing better next year. However, if as has been observed before, if they still sell enough tickets to the 'families', then they won't give a t**s, probably. :cuppa:

FB :biggrin:
I have danced the skies on laughter-silvered wings!
Finningley Boy

Re: Scampton Airshow 2018

Postby boff180 on Wed 20 Sep 2017, 4:57 pm

Most of the barracks blocks on base are virtually derelict, there is NO accommodation capacity on base - regardless of how much people believe otherwise. Anyone who has spent five minutes in the technical site knows this.

The show was always billed as a family show - there is nothing sinister - acts that were never advertised that they would be attracting in the first place. Yes there was a mismatch between the ticket price (one that is hopefully sorted next year) and what was eventually attracted (yes, the flying was a little light).... do people really think that was intentional as some posts on the forum suggest?

As with every other show in this country, when it comes to military participants, the organisers are at the mercy of the foreign air arms over whether they decide to attend or not.

Thousands and thousands of hours went into organising and running this new show, not only from a small team of dedicated full time employees already working flat out - but from an army of volunteers too giving up their holiday to make the event as big a success as possible.

Constructive criticism is fine, and I'm sure it is encouraged and welcomed - comments about the flying being light and the ticket price being high (among other comments) are perfectly valid.

But to make up clueless un/ill-informed crack-pot accusations (sinister to call it a family show, for example) over the intentions of those that organised this show and the reasons as to why certain things happened the way they did, I am certain, are ubelievable - almost offensive - to some of those involved. As a volunteer myself I've read some of the outlandish and outrageous comments with disbelief....

Do some enthusiasts think they are so entitled that they can criticise Red 5 for wanting to spend time with his (very) new born child and the mother of said child rather than display at an airshow - especially when a major deployment was just days away? The comments regarding that were particularly selfish and offensive.

After now seeing the airshow world from both sides, I'm left thinking the immortal words of John McEnroe - you cannot be serious - and if you are, I am worried about the future of our hobby.

Apologies if this rant grates with some people however I had to get that off my chest after reading some of the tosh posted on here by certain individuals recently.

Andy
User avatar
boff180
UKAR Staff

Re: Scampton Airshow 2018

Postby Finningley Boy on Wed 20 Sep 2017, 5:40 pm

Andy,

I for one am only thinking out loud on here, if that's permissible. When I say sinister, I don't mean something like a secret sect conspiracy, what I mean is if one reads between the particular lines about wanting this to be a 'family show' well why does it need stating? A family show as oppose to what? And yes it might although not necessarily mean the organisers are making in effort to accommodate... well, young families who as many would interpret are probably happy with anything. That said fellah, yes I imagine that if they could have increased military participation I'm sure they would. However, as I've said, the claim, probably genuine, about depending upon the University of Lincoln to accommodate participants and staff was used in the very same manner by the Waddington air show organisers? Its never been used elsewhere. How do the Biggin Hill organisers manage? I f it is the case that if the event can't be scheduled on dates which don't clash with events which suck up every military participant and given the RAF for various reasons can't do any better than the Red Arrows, Typhoon, BBMF, Falcons and a rousing publicity machine then you can understand surely that all criticisms are valid, although I'll grant the comments about Red 5 were wholly unjustified and silly! But unless the organisers have a plan to avoid the same pedestrian event, then no matter how hard those involved work and whatever they sacrifice. A lack lustre show remains just that, many here have pointed out the problem with clashing with aa much as a fly in over on the continent. But we'll clash again, seems to be the logic, because we can't schedule the air show for a less congested weekend because we need the student beds. Another thing, I've already mentioned about the state of the infrastructure at Royal Air Force Station Scampton, its a Bloody disgrace, and an MOD one. A serving RAF station presented like that! That sir is unbelievable. They cannot be serious! :cuppa:

FB :biggrin:
I have danced the skies on laughter-silvered wings!
Finningley Boy

Re: Scampton Airshow 2018

Postby aviodromefriend on Wed 20 Sep 2017, 6:28 pm

Finningley Boy wrote:A lack lustre show remains just that, many here have pointed out the problem with clashing with aa much as a fly in over on the continent. But we'll clash again, seems to be the logic, because we can't schedule the air show for a less congested weekend because we need the student beds.
Maybe someone can set a calendar of the short period of the year in which airshows tend to take place, taking in all airshows in Western and Central Europe, leaving any less congested weekends? Well, maybe you'll find the RIAT weekend is less congested, but that is because every other show tries to not conflict with that one. Anyone thinking DBH will organise their two flying events on the same dates?
A weather forecast is a forecast and just that

Mike Moses, Launch Integration Manager Space Shuttle Program
User avatar
aviodromefriend

Re: Scampton Airshow 2018

Postby Chris G on Wed 20 Sep 2017, 8:02 pm

The thing that is worrying about next year is will Scampton be able to secure RAF participation. With the big show at KB and the big Czech anniversary show surely it's not beyond the realms of possibility that given the support the Czechs and Belgians have given to the UK display circuit that assets will be sent abroad!
Kirkbride Airfield, Cumbria, Open Day - Sun 3rd Sept 2017
User avatar
Chris G

Re: Scampton Airshow 2018

Postby CJS on Thu 21 Sep 2017, 6:00 am

It would be a rum deal indeed if the RAF sent assets overseas at the want of a UK based show next year of all years.

Can't see it happening myself. If the RAF care about their own centenary, then their participation at at least three shows next year - Cosford, RIAT and Scampton - has the potential to be excellent. Other events are available, I realise that, but these three clearly hold the closest links to the RAF.
"Forewarned is forearmed"
User avatar
CJS

Re: Scampton Airshow 2018

Postby BossMann on Thu 21 Sep 2017, 8:54 am

So in 2018 the Czech International Air Fest is 8/9 september ( same as Scampton/ KB ) but Ostrava has been re-named NATO Days & Czech Air Force Air Days which is the following weekend.

Which of the 2 will be the 'official' Czechoslovak Air Force 100 years anniversary show in the Czech Republic? Seems odd to have both shows in the Czech republic back to back, if its Ostrava then at least CIAF will pose less of a threat to Scampton - but will likely still have all the Czech Air force assets..... unlikely foreign air arms can support both shows equally? The czechs have supported UK shows really well so the RAF should send flying displays to at least Ostrava next year..

So the main clash may be KB.... with Scampton being one of the 'official' RAF 100th displays I am hoping it will be well supported by overseas participation
BossMann

Re: Scampton Airshow 2018

Postby XX752 on Thu 21 Sep 2017, 9:19 am

Finningley Boy wrote:Andy,

I for one am only thinking out loud on here, if that's permissible. When I say sinister, I don't mean something like a secret sect conspiracy, what I mean is if one reads between the particular lines about wanting this to be a 'family show' well why does it need stating? A family show as oppose to what? And yes it might although not necessarily mean the organisers are making in effort to accommodate... well, young families who as many would interpret are probably happy with anything. That said fellah, yes I imagine that if they could have increased military participation I'm sure they would. However, as I've said, the claim, probably genuine, about depending upon the University of Lincoln to accommodate participants and staff was used in the very same manner by the Waddington air show organisers? Its never been used elsewhere. How do the Biggin Hill organisers manage? I f it is the case that if the event can't be scheduled on dates which don't clash with events which suck up every military participant and given the RAF for various reasons can't do any better than the Red Arrows, Typhoon, BBMF, Falcons and a rousing publicity machine then you can understand surely that all criticisms are valid, although I'll grant the comments about Red 5 were wholly unjustified and silly! But unless the organisers have a plan to avoid the same pedestrian event, then no matter how hard those involved work and whatever they sacrifice. A lack lustre show remains just that, many here have pointed out the problem with clashing with aa much as a fly in over on the continent. But we'll clash again, seems to be the logic, because we can't schedule the air show for a less congested weekend because we need the student beds. Another thing, I've already mentioned about the state of the infrastructure at Royal Air Force Station Scampton, its a Bloody disgrace, and an MOD one. A serving RAF station presented like that! That sir is unbelievable. They cannot be serious! :cuppa:

FB :biggrin:

The state of the infrastructure at Scampton is due to the fact that the base actually closed as an RAF station in 1996 (Flying units had all gone by November 1995) and the initial plan was just to retain the airfield as a RLG for Cranwell and as airspace for the Reds to practice over. Some of the base housing was sold off and some retained as overflow from Waddington, but the entire technical site lay vacant from 1996 until 2000 until the Reds returned and occupied less than a quarter of the buildings. Additional ground units have occupied a little more of the station since but much of the station really remains 'closed' and has been for over 20 years. The situation is also unlikely to change - when RAF Sealand closed Scampton was considered as a base to house some displaced units but the cost of renewing and refurbishing the infrastructure prohibited this and most went to RAF Leeming instead. One or two barrack blocks etc have recently been brought back into use to house personnel from Kirton Lindsey but I doubt many of the buildings will ever find a military use again.
XX752

Re: Scampton Airshow 2018

Postby Finningley Boy on Thu 21 Sep 2017, 12:53 pm

XX752,

I know the history behind the closure but everywhere you turn now its the same, no money being spent. When the station made it onto the Government's list of military establishments to close in 1994 just what kind of state was the officers' Mess in for example, or any other Buildings? As for the cost of renovation being beyond any reasonable price I think that's because typically today those who should know better find things far more naff to waste money on. Its true what Capt Mainwaring said; 'built for show, not for blow', however, there has to be a balance and my understanding in that while it is run by RAFCTE, the Scampton air show in all regards otherwise is supposed to be the resumption of the Waddington air show, at a location which doesn't give the powers that be sleepless nights wondering if a mad jafadi, or whatever, might get into the Air Warfare Centre or the bit where the droners are. A most unlikely scenario I'd have thought given just the routine security on these points on the base at Waddington. But still, to all intents and purpose, Scampton is the new Finningley! Again, looking at the state of Scampton and what it has come to represent says a lot about not just the RAF, but the whole rotten British Government who preside over such decay in one of the finest military institutions which is apparently going to celebrate its Centenary next year!!!!!!!!!! Well Happy Birthday when it comes, Boys and Girls! :roll:

FB :biggrin:
I have danced the skies on laughter-silvered wings!
Finningley Boy

Re: Scampton Airshow 2018

Postby XX752 on Thu 21 Sep 2017, 3:02 pm

Finningley Boy wrote:XX752,

I know the history behind the closure but everywhere you turn now its the same, no money being spent. When the station made it onto the Government's list of military establishments to close in 1994 just what kind of state was the officers' Mess in for example, or any other Buildings? As for the cost of renovation being beyond any reasonable price I think that's because typically today those who should know better find things far more naff to waste money on. Its true what Capt Mainwaring said; 'built for show, not for blow', however, there has to be a balance and my understanding in that while it is run by RAFCTE, the Scampton air show in all regards otherwise is supposed to be the resumption of the Waddington air show, at a location which doesn't give the powers that be sleepless nights wondering if a mad jafadi, or whatever, might get into the Air Warfare Centre or the bit where the droners are. A most unlikely scenario I'd have thought given just the routine security on these points on the base at Waddington. But still, to all intents and purpose, Scampton is the new Finningley! Again, looking at the state of Scampton and what it has come to represent says a lot about not just the RAF, but the whole rotten British Government who preside over such decay in one of the finest military institutions which is apparently going to celebrate its Centenary next year!!!!!!!!!! Well Happy Birthday when it comes, Boys and Girls! :roll:

FB :biggrin:


In 1994 the base was well cared for and up to the usual well kept standards of RAF front line bases. It's just the result of over 20 years neglect. Most of the H-blocks, Officers mess, one of the C Type hangars and other ancillary buildings have literately had nothing at all done to them - I would suggest demolition looms for much of the site unless we see an unlikely expansion of the RAF or the site is sold to a private buyer, regardless of history. It was touch and go around a year of two back if the runway would even get repairs - it was suggested RAFAT would move to Waddington. I personally think the base has not got a lengthy life with the RAF in front of it. A lot depends on what happens to the RAFAT when the Hawk T1s finally used up all their FI, if they do re-equip say with T2s I could see them moving to Valley or to Waddington, and the few ground units could easily be accommodated elsewhere. So I think with the base unlikely to be in the MODs long term plans the place is only going to get worse sadly. Usually though closure looming would see massive investment in a base (Nav centre at Finningley, hangar refurbishment at Coltishall, new Harrier maintenance centre at Cottesmore etc) - so you may see the place get a massive makeover before it gets binned!
XX752

Re: Scampton Airshow 2018

Postby Finningley Boy on Thu 21 Sep 2017, 3:19 pm

XX752,

How utterly depressing. I can see the logic in what you're saying though. The one thing which puzzles here, the air show? Its already been hailed a success and another planned for next year, despite the comments made here on UKAR, by folk like myself no less. However, should the air show really take off, pardon the pun, next year, at what juncture, imagining the RAFAT get their T2s or whatever (I've heard F-16s in some quarters! :shock: ) would the RAF look to abandon the place otherwise. I'd have thought they'd have been as well doing so.. well now. What's to stop them? They'd be able to off load, perhaps to more Army units yet to return from Germany, or is it just about the money? In other words, are the MOD hell bent on giving Scampton up to become an Industrial Park? But such planning would be in motion now surely. Back to the air show, and we know that such a thing if organised by the RAF directly wouldn't save it. But its organised by RAFCTE, and if it does become the RIAT of the North before the Treasury axe swings again, wither goest the event ? If its a money maker, RAFCTE certainly and the MOD perhaps begrudgingly, would probably have to plan its move in advance as well? Not back to Waddington me thinks, unless they can claim a lessening of physical security concerns by then, say for example ISIS are run to earth in the meantime!? Or would Leeming, Coningsby... that's really it, be able to accommodate? :cuppa:

FB :biggrin:
I have danced the skies on laughter-silvered wings!
Finningley Boy

Re: Scampton Airshow 2018

Postby pb643 on Fri 22 Sep 2017, 5:30 am

Finningley Boy wrote:XX752,

How utterly depressing. I can see the logic in what you're saying though. The one thing which puzzles here, the air show? Its already been hailed a success and another planned for next year, despite the comments made here on UKAR, by folk like myself no less. However, should the air show really take off, pardon the pun, next year, at what juncture, imagining the RAFAT get their T2s or whatever (I've heard F-16s in some quarters! :shock: ) would the RAF look to abandon the place otherwise. I'd have thought they'd have been as well doing so.. well now. What's to stop them? They'd be able to off load, perhaps to more Army units yet to return from Germany, or is it just about the money? In other words, are the MOD hell bent on giving Scampton up to become an Industrial Park? But such planning would be in motion now surely. Back to the air show, and we know that such a thing if organised by the RAF directly wouldn't save it. But its organised by RAFCTE, and if it does become the RIAT of the North before the Treasury axe swings again, wither goest the event ? If its a money maker, RAFCTE certainly and the MOD perhaps begrudgingly, would probably have to plan its move in advance as well? Not back to Waddington me thinks, unless they can claim a lessening of physical security concerns by then, say for example ISIS are run to earth in the meantime!? Or would Leeming, Coningsby... that's really it, be able to accommodate? :cuppa:

FB :biggrin:


Wasn't it recently announced that the Arrows will remain with the Hawk T1 until at least 2030?

When Scampton reverted to care and maintainence in the 1990's I don't think anybody envisaged it ever reopening, so there was very little of either. Unfortunately the relocation of the Arrows to Cranwell didn't work out, I think Cranwell was just too busy to accommodate them and they ended up moving back again. I doubt that would still be the case at Cranwell?

The proposed move to Waddington was I believe rejected mainly on cost, as new accommodation had to be built and I think there was requirements for access to be put in onto the A15, though I may be wrong there?

There had been some remedial work at Scampton on some of the hangers, but one of the hangers is completely cordoned off. I have heard ludicrous figures mentioned for remedial work on small buildings there, so heaven knows the cost to the MOD of refurbishing hangers? To my totally amateur eye, the repairs on the active parts of the taxi way looked very short term and there are of course, large areas of the airfield that are not fit for aircraft use at all.

Difficult to see where you would go from here. :dizzy:
pb643

Re: Scampton Airshow 2018

Postby XX752 on Fri 22 Sep 2017, 8:48 am

Finningley Boy wrote:XX752,

How utterly depressing. I can see the logic in what you're saying though. The one thing which puzzles here, the air show? Its already been hailed a success and another planned for next year, despite the comments made here on UKAR, by folk like myself no less. However, should the air show really take off, pardon the pun, next year, at what juncture, imagining the RAFAT get their T2s or whatever (I've heard F-16s in some quarters! :shock: ) would the RAF look to abandon the place otherwise. I'd have thought they'd have been as well doing so.. well now. What's to stop them? They'd be able to off load, perhaps to more Army units yet to return from Germany, or is it just about the money? In other words, are the MOD hell bent on giving Scampton up to become an Industrial Park? But such planning would be in motion now surely. Back to the air show, and we know that such a thing if organised by the RAF directly wouldn't save it. But its organised by RAFCTE, and if it does become the RIAT of the North before the Treasury axe swings again, wither goest the event ? If its a money maker, RAFCTE certainly and the MOD perhaps begrudgingly, would probably have to plan its move in advance as well? Not back to Waddington me thinks, unless they can claim a lessening of physical security concerns by then, say for example ISIS are run to earth in the meantime!? Or would Leeming, Coningsby... that's really it, be able to accommodate? :cuppa:

FB :biggrin:


I very much doubt the organisers of the show take any notice of what is written on UKAR regarding content or pricing. I gave the show some negative criticism on here and other social media sites, however we went on the sunday and have to say the show was well organised and actually quite good - I went in a bit of a negative mood but actually came away having really enjoyed it. The only thing wrong with it was the admission cost, as has been well documented before a show like this was really worth around the £25 - £30 mark. Regarding it being a success, Id say it defiantly was as the target 'family audience' seemed to be well reached looking at the general crowd.

Regarding Scampton itself, the relocation of Army units would be a nonstarter considering the MOD's decision to announce the closure and disposal of several former airfield sites such as Swanton Morley, Colerene, Grantham, Catterick and Bramcote, all with barracks and associated buildings in much better shape than Scampton. I had a trawl through various documents yesterday and there have been discussions and study's between the RAF and Lincolnshire County Council regarding the setting up of a heritage / visitor centre which would use maybe two hangars and some buildings or the possibility of a new building. Much obviously depends on funding and countinued use by the RAF. The derelict former officer mess has a proposal to become a hotel. Also worth noting are the 4 C Type hangars are listed buildings but most (if any) of the technical site is not. Most of the buildings added in the 1960s for the expansion of the V-force are at risk for demolition in the near future I'd think.

An ideal situation if the RAFAT are to be retained could be the relocating of the BBMF to Scampton to work along side any plans for a heritage centre maybe?
XX752

Re: Scampton Airshow 2018

Postby RIAT Air Ops on Fri 22 Sep 2017, 9:06 am

I'm not about to go into forensic detail re: Scampton 2017, I'll leave that for others who feel they are better placed. What I do find comical are comments such as FB with
I would like to hope that the organisers; DBH/RIAT air ops, have simply dropped the Scampton Ball this year and have their finger out from here on in.
and BossMann with
So I guess I am hoping that if DBH/ RIAT Air Ops don't 'forget' about the Scampton Airshow 2018 like they did this year,


A couple of assumptions that are just so far from the truth they are laughable but there you go. The Scampton 2017 show was pitched at air arms late last year in the same manner as we do with RIAT and when national decisions were made as to what was going where Scampton was only allocated the Belgians and French in the flying display. No "dropping the ball" or "forgetting about Scampton" whatsoever. Hence RCAF CF-18, Dutch F-16 pair, German Typhoon, ANG KC-135R and the SWHF who, regarding the flying display, were victims of external factors. We worked to contact some of the participants that were scheduled to be at Lens via Air Staffs and Attaches to see what was possible for Scampton. None deigned to respond to our enquiries.

Enjoy your weekend.
RIAT Air Ops

Re: Scampton Airshow 2018

Postby XX752 on Fri 22 Sep 2017, 9:37 am

RIAT Air Ops wrote:I'm not about to go into forensic detail re: Scampton 2017, I'll leave that for others who feel they are better placed. What I do find comical are comments such as FB with
I would like to hope that the organisers; DBH/RIAT air ops, have simply dropped the Scampton Ball this year and have their finger out from here on in.
and BossMann with
So I guess I am hoping that if DBH/ RIAT Air Ops don't 'forget' about the Scampton Airshow 2018 like they did this year,


A couple of assumptions that are just so far from the truth they are laughable but there you go. The Scampton 2017 show was pitched at air arms late last year in the same manner as we do with RIAT and when national decisions were made as to what was going where Scampton was only allocated the Belgians and French in the flying display. No "dropping the ball" or "forgetting about Scampton" whatsoever. Hence RCAF CF-18, Dutch F-16 pair, German Typhoon, ANG KC-135R and the SWHF who, regarding the flying display, were victims of external factors. We worked to contact some of the participants that were scheduled to be at Lens via Air Staffs and Attaches to see what was possible for Scampton. None deigned to respond to our enquiries.

Enjoy your weekend.


I'm under no illusions that maximum effort was made to attract overseas air-arms, however the fact that it clashed with Sanicole and other well established events was unfortunate, a repeat of which should surely be avoided in future years.... Except next year it clashes again with Sanicole and the Czech air forces anniversary both of which are likely to attract much of the European airforces participation. So you can kind of see why potential airshow attendees are already looking upon the event with a negative aspect?
XX752

Re: Scampton Airshow 2018

Postby BossMann on Fri 22 Sep 2017, 9:49 am

RIAT Air Ops wrote:I'm not about to go into forensic detail re: Scampton 2017, I'll leave that for others who feel they are better placed. What I do find comical are comments such as FB with
I would like to hope that the organisers; DBH/RIAT air ops, have simply dropped the Scampton Ball this year and have their finger out from here on in.
and BossMann with
So I guess I am hoping that if DBH/ RIAT Air Ops don't 'forget' about the Scampton Airshow 2018 like they did this year,


A couple of assumptions that are just so far from the truth they are laughable but there you go. The Scampton 2017 show was pitched at air arms late last year in the same manner as we do with RIAT and when national decisions were made as to what was going where Scampton was only allocated the Belgians and French in the flying display. No "dropping the ball" or "forgetting about Scampton" whatsoever. Hence RCAF CF-18, Dutch F-16 pair, German Typhoon, ANG KC-135R and the SWHF who, regarding the flying display, were victims of external factors. We worked to contact some of the participants that were scheduled to be at Lens via Air Staffs and Attaches to see what was possible for Scampton. None deigned to respond to our enquiries.

Enjoy your weekend.


Thanks for replying RIAT Air Ops - didn't mean 'forgetting' as such maybe foreign arm arms 'forgetting' about Scampton for some reason, which I guess we all thought with RAF Scampton being the home of the Red Arrows would be an easy selling point for you guys!

Good to see that you tried to get the assets from the cancelled Lens show, looks like somehow Sanicole managed to squeeze in and get the Patrouille de France, but thank you all for trying. I am sure you can build upon the success of this years event in general and improve upon the flying display which has received some criticism on here and now on the post show reviews (regarding it being a top-rated seaside airshow line up etc.).

Anyways onwards with the 2018 event - Do you have a plan for the flying display at Scampton 2018? Will it be longer? How will you guys at DBH try to ensure that RAF Scampton can get more foreign participation with the clash with the Belgian Air Force Air Days and the Czech International Air Fest?

Thanks
BossMann

Re: Scampton Airshow 2018

Postby n0143773 on Fri 22 Sep 2017, 10:01 am

Can't believe all the discussion. Simple summary of 2017:

1. Ticket prices were too high, in so far as they did not offer value for money when comparing the flying display to other alternatives;
2. The quality of the flying display was poor. This had nothing to do with a lack of effort from DBH - it was purely down to other nations simply prioritising other shows, or seeing little benefit in attending, some having already made the effort to attend others in the UK throughout the year.

Let's move on and see how 2018 compares (point 1 can be resolved, chances are point 2 won't be).
User avatar
n0143773

Re: Scampton Airshow 2018

Postby RIAT Air Ops on Fri 22 Sep 2017, 12:27 pm

n0143773 wrote:Can't believe all the discussion. Simple summary of 2017:

1. Ticket prices were too high, in so far as they did not offer value for money when comparing the flying display to other alternatives;
2. The quality of the flying display was poor. This had nothing to do with a lack of effort from DBH - it was purely down to other nations simply prioritising other shows, or seeing little benefit in attending, some having already made the effort to attend others in the UK throughout the year.

Let's move on and see how 2018 compares (point 1 can be resolved, chances are point 2 won't be).


I've disagreed with your views in the past but this time Point 1. Subjective if only looking at it from a flying display perspective. Point 2. nail/head - done. :up:

Wonder how many folks complaining about ticket prices (not necessarily folks on here) were happily stumping up to have a ride in the Pleasure Flying helicopters?

:cuppa:
RIAT Air Ops

Re: Scampton Airshow 2018

Postby XX752 on Fri 22 Sep 2017, 12:41 pm

RIAT Air Ops wrote:
n0143773 wrote:Can't believe all the discussion. Simple summary of 2017:

1. Ticket prices were too high, in so far as they did not offer value for money when comparing the flying display to other alternatives;
2. The quality of the flying display was poor. This had nothing to do with a lack of effort from DBH - it was purely down to other nations simply prioritising other shows, or seeing little benefit in attending, some having already made the effort to attend others in the UK throughout the year.

Let's move on and see how 2018 compares (point 1 can be resolved, chances are point 2 won't be).


I've disagreed with your views in the past but this time Point 1. Subjective if only looking at it from a flying display perspective. Point 2. nail/head - done. :up:

Wonder how many folks complaining about ticket prices (not necessarily folks on here) were happily stumping up to have a ride in the Pleasure Flying helicopters?

:cuppa:


If your views are representative of the organisers then it is clear you think you know best. All I can say is you are extremely fortunate that the area is bereft of airshows. If Cosford, Biggin Hill etc were closer then I think this venue would struggle for what is offered for the cost.
XX752

Re: Scampton Airshow 2018

Postby n0143773 on Fri 22 Sep 2017, 12:54 pm

XX752 wrote:
RIAT Air Ops wrote:
n0143773 wrote:Can't believe all the discussion. Simple summary of 2017:

1. Ticket prices were too high, in so far as they did not offer value for money when comparing the flying display to other alternatives;
2. The quality of the flying display was poor. This had nothing to do with a lack of effort from DBH - it was purely down to other nations simply prioritising other shows, or seeing little benefit in attending, some having already made the effort to attend others in the UK throughout the year.

Let's move on and see how 2018 compares (point 1 can be resolved, chances are point 2 won't be).


I've disagreed with your views in the past but this time Point 1. Subjective if only looking at it from a flying display perspective. Point 2. nail/head - done. :up:

Wonder how many folks complaining about ticket prices (not necessarily folks on here) were happily stumping up to have a ride in the Pleasure Flying helicopters?

:cuppa:


If your views are representative of the organisers then it is clear you think you know best. All I can say is you are extremely fortunate that the area is bereft of airshows. If Cosford, Biggin Hill etc were closer then I think this venue would struggle for what is offered for the cost.


Bit harsh. They obviously do know best to a certain extent - look at the attendance figures. The show did well regardless of the ticket prices. And mentioning other locations is somewhat obsolete - they are nowhere near Scampton and therefore local supply v demand justifies a higher ticket price.

However, for enthusiasts or people who will attend multiple airshows - the observation is merely that Scampton didn't offer value for money in our eyes, when compared to others. To the general population, it obviously did though. DBH could keep the same prices next year (that's what I'd do) and get similar attendance, if not greater, with a better flying display (which is largely down to luck).
User avatar
n0143773

Next

Return to Scampton Airshow

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: ChrisM, clearstone and 7 guests