Scampton Airshow 2018

Re: Scampton Airshow 2018

Postby Mooshie1956 on Wed 25 Jul 2018, 12:53 pm

f-4 wrote:
Valley is a non-starter IMHO as the personnel live in Lincolnshire and a move to somewhere reasonably commutable will be a factor, not to mention the clash with MFTS training requirements in Wales.



WHAT ? are you saying that military personal can decide where they live and work now. Are we really that much of a namby pamby state, disgusting.
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Re: Scampton Airshow 2018

Postby pb643 on Wed 25 Jul 2018, 1:50 pm

f-4 wrote:Valley is a non-starter IMHO as the personnel live in Lincolnshire and a move to somewhere reasonably commutable will be a factor, not to mention the clash with MFTS training requirements in Wales.


Is that really a factor in how the military work? I didn't think it used to be. I thought you were posted, end of story?

I can see that being based in Anglesey might make the Reds a less attractive option for future aircrew, groundcrew and their families.

The best place for the Reds is Scampton, which with some investment from a range of national bodies could become a world-class aviation heritage site.


Regarding Scampton, the biggest factor in keeping it operational as an airfield, I would have thought is the state of the runway and taxiways. Almost all of the western side of the airfield is unusable. The eastern side taxiways are not in great condition though they are still used. I can't comment on the runway, but I believe it needs some work as well. I am obviously in no expert, but I would think it safe to guess that this would be very time consuming and expensive.

Various parts of the station have had considerable sums of money spent on them, for example, all of the hangers bar one have been refurbished and had asbestos removed, equally other areas are essentially derelict.

I agree that the concept would be brilliant, but unfortunately, I can't see it happening in the current climate or any climate for that matter. Ironically the airshow itself forced the departure of the Museum of RAF Fire Fighting, a worthy part of such an idea. They had to leave to free up space for the airshow. A shame as they have an excellent collection of vehicles and other items.
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Re: Scampton Airshow 2018

Postby Xray833 on Wed 25 Jul 2018, 1:55 pm

Mooshie1956 wrote:
f-4 wrote:
Valley is a non-starter IMHO as the personnel live in Lincolnshire and a move to somewhere reasonably commutable will be a factor, not to mention the clash with MFTS training requirements in Wales.



WHAT ? are you saying that military personal can decide where they live and work now. Are we really that much of a namby pamby state, disgusting.


If the MOD is selling off a valuable asset simply as a cost cutting move then, yes,.
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Re: Scampton Airshow 2018

Postby f-4 on Wed 25 Jul 2018, 2:42 pm

Mooshie1956 wrote:
f-4 wrote:
Valley is a non-starter IMHO as the personnel live in Lincolnshire and a move to somewhere reasonably commutable will be a factor, not to mention the clash with MFTS training requirements in Wales.



WHAT ? are you saying that military personal can decide where they live and work now. Are we really that much of a namby pamby state, disgusting.


Not at all, but the Reds are a special case as they're not front-line. If a move to Valley was on the cards, I think many of the personnel would look for other posts and the team would suffer a seismic change for the first year or two. Given the best option is Wittering, it's likely not much more than an hour down the A1 and many RAF personnel currently live in the Stamford area.
f-4

Re: Scampton Airshow 2018

Postby HaveQuick2 on Thu 26 Jul 2018, 7:18 am

f-4 wrote: Given the best option is Wittering.....


Absolutely agree. Red Arrows to Wittering is nailed-on IMHO.
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Re: Scampton Airshow 2018

Postby Berf on Thu 26 Jul 2018, 7:34 am

Mooshie1956 wrote:
f-4 wrote:
Valley is a non-starter IMHO as the personnel live in Lincolnshire and a move to somewhere reasonably commutable will be a factor, not to mention the clash with MFTS training requirements in Wales.



WHAT ? are you saying that military personal can decide where they live and work now. Are we really that much of a namby pamby state, disgusting.



Well if the did not take more account of personnel and their families than in the past the services would be even shorter of staff.
Berf

Re: Scampton Airshow 2018

Postby parsley on Thu 26 Jul 2018, 2:23 pm

Without wishing to rain on anyone's wishes it strikes me that Wittering will be ruled out for an airshow straight away because of the close proximity to the A1
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Re: Scampton Airshow 2018

Postby CJS on Fri 27 Jul 2018, 7:34 am

Already been discussed as not having to be an issue for an airshow (after all, the A15 may not be as busy as the A1, but it's hardly a minor side road. See also the M11 and Duxford), but the above post refers to the RAFAT relocating there anyway.
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Re: Scampton Airshow 2018

Postby The Baron on Fri 27 Jul 2018, 12:25 pm

Abingdon has the A34, Yeovilton has the A303, Cosford has the M54. Admittedly none of them have a runway/road location similar to Scampton or Wittering but it serves a point, along with Duxford, that air displays and roads can operate safely together. Heck even Shoreham managed many incident free years with a busy trunk road at the end of the runway.

So it's not really a case of Scampton or Wittering not being suitable but it's more likely to come down to whether certain people actually want an airshow to be held there.
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Re: Scampton Airshow 2018

Postby aviodromefriend on Sat 28 Jul 2018, 8:23 pm

HaveQuick2 wrote:
f-4 wrote: Given the best option is Wittering.....


Absolutely agree. Red Arrows to Wittering is nailed-on IMHO.
I can even see the Reds ending up at Fairford (If they survive Scampton's closure at all)... The base where they were formed, no big motorways around, having their official jubilee shows, what is against?
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Re: Scampton Airshow 2018

Postby The Baron on Sat 28 Jul 2018, 9:16 pm

aviodromefriend wrote:
HaveQuick2 wrote:
f-4 wrote: Given the best option is Wittering.....


Absolutely agree. Red Arrows to Wittering is nailed-on IMHO.
I can even see the Reds ending up at Fairford (If they survive Scampton's closure at all)... The base where they were formed, no big motorways around, having their official jubilee shows, what is against?


American RC-135s that are due to be based there in the near future.
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Re: Scampton Airshow 2018

Postby aviodromefriend on Sun 29 Jul 2018, 12:33 pm

The Baron wrote:
aviodromefriend wrote:
HaveQuick2 wrote:
f-4 wrote: Given the best option is Wittering.....


Absolutely agree. Red Arrows to Wittering is nailed-on IMHO.
I can even see the Reds ending up at Fairford (If they survive Scampton's closure at all)... The base where they were formed, no big motorways around, having their official jubilee shows, what is against?


American RC-135s that are due to be based there in the near future.
That wouldn't rule out the Reds going there to. Mind there were also plans they would move to Waddington with all its intelligence aircraft in the not too distant past.
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Re: Scampton Airshow 2018

Postby XX752 on Wed 01 Aug 2018, 9:14 am

HaveQuick2 wrote:
f-4 wrote: Given the best option is Wittering.....


Absolutely agree. Red Arrows to Wittering is nailed-on IMHO.


Really? - It's proximity to the A1 and a circuit full of Tutors may have a say on why it isn't. Only one of 6 potential homes being looked at......
XX752

Re: Scampton Airshow 2018

Postby f-4 on Wed 01 Aug 2018, 11:42 am

XX752 wrote:
HaveQuick2 wrote:
f-4 wrote: Given the best option is Wittering.....


Absolutely agree. Red Arrows to Wittering is nailed-on IMHO.


Really? - It's proximity to the A1 and a circuit full of Tutors may have a say on why it isn't. Only one of 6 potential homes being looked at......


Can you quote the six? I expect they are Leeming, Waddington, Cranwell, Marham, Valley and Wittering. If the A1 is a problem - which I don't believe it is at Wittering due to the size of the airfield - that knocks out Leeming too. The presence of Leeming village and Londonderry will pose a problem for display flying training.
The previous planned move to Waddington was knocked on the head due to the cost of a new hangar, but this could change with the 'savings' from closing Scampton. The plan for relocating to Waddo was to use the Scampton airspace for training, but if they want to build houses at the latter then that would have to be knocked on the head too. Training at Waddo would require flying over the A15, so similar issues to A1 and given Waddo's increased security and operational status I doubt the AWC etc would want the airspace restrictions the Reds bring.
The previous attempt to use Cranwell didn't work so can't see it being resurrected, especially now MFTS is on site and airspace restrictions could bring contractual compensation events.
Marham will not be suitable due to security concerns and operational impact on DAVE.
Valley will be too busy to provide enough training slots.

So unless there is a well-maintained base with no active aircraft and well away from populated areas, the MoD is going to struggle to find a suitable site. Ironically the closest to that criteria will be Linton when the Tucano is retired, but Wittering is the next best bet. Personally I want them to kick the army out and reactivate Cottesmore...
f-4

Re: Scampton Airshow 2018

Postby BossMann on Wed 01 Aug 2018, 12:34 pm

As mentioned on 'future of RIAT thread' if the issue is with the maintenance costs of the airfield could the RAF 'gift' RAF Scampton to Lincolnshire County Council/ RAFCTE so that they can take over running of the airfield and attempt to turn it into the visitor attraction that was looked into in 2013?

Yes it does need some TLC but then even if the Reds moved to Cranwell/ Barkston Heath/ wittering/ wherever they could still use the airspace above Scampton for practice displays like they did from 1995-2000 and people can be charged to park at the base to help for its maintenance etc..

North Weald Airfield is owned by the local council and until the Stansted airport restrictions got in the way it used to host Airshows - Fighter Meet/ Airshow Europe/ North Weald Airshows, it still hosts aviation events and other shows during the year, just no air displays due to the airspace restrictions... Could RAF Scampton be like IWM Duxford/ North Weald ?
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Re: Scampton Airshow 2018

Postby BossMann on Wed 08 Aug 2018, 4:46 pm

Now that we know that RAF Scampton is going I am expecting the Scampton show to go along with it.

If ScamptonMarketing/ Anyone from RAFCTE is reading this could they confirm that the Scampton Airshow is gone for good ( which we all are expecting ) but could they also confirm if they are looking at another venue in the 'East of England' or not as was mentioned in the UKAR interview with Andy Armstrong/ Tom Gibbons:

Q: At present, we're in April 2018. Do you think the Scampton Airshow will return in 2019?

A: We are still working through that. We have every ambition to go back to the East of England. We are busy at the moment running and planning RIAT, and there is other work going on in the background. When we are ready, we'll announce what the plans are.

Q: You talked about a return to the East of England. Now that runway repairs are complete at RAF Waddington, has this venue been looked at again as a potential airshow venue?

A: That's a question for the RAF.
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Re: Scampton Airshow 2018

Postby Chrisse on Wed 08 Aug 2018, 8:54 pm

BossMann wrote:"When we are ready, we'll announce what the plans are"


What's the point of your post? Do you think you can somehow tempt them to respond with your charm? The answer to your question is in your post. RAFCTE is a professional organization, nobody there will respond on a public forum out of turn until the above condition is met.
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Re: Scampton Airshow 2018

Postby boff180 on Thu 09 Aug 2018, 7:33 am

In fact, I'd suggest the constant pestering is potentially having the opposite effect.
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Re: Scampton Airshow 2018

Postby MiG_Eater on Thu 09 Aug 2018, 8:12 am

I don't think posting on an internet forum can ever be described as pestering.

Sure enough if BossMann is writing to them personally on a regular basis, that's not on - but to some of us, myself included, the loss of Scampton was a massive disappointment and it's important to show some enthusiasm for a show that had a huge lack of it from the enthusiast community in general.
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Re: Scampton Airshow 2018

Postby clearstone on Thu 09 Aug 2018, 8:44 am

There's a difference between enthusiasm and just adding hyped-up/pointless posts when you've got nothing new to add and there's no other news.

RAFCTE will release information on any future "East of England" event when they are in a position to do so. It's in their interest as well as yours. Just be patient.
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Re: Scampton Airshow 2018

Postby MiG_Eater on Thu 09 Aug 2018, 10:38 am

But the point is, I can't help but think the hiding the show took from websites like this in some ways contributed to its demise. It certainly didn't help.

I guess BossMann's enthusiasm is the opposite. Maybe it will make a difference, maybe not - but I can't see that it will cause any harm; and it may just offer some encouragement.

Airshows are more important to people than many realise!
MiG_Eater

Re: Scampton Airshow 2018

Postby Finningley Boy on Thu 09 Aug 2018, 12:35 pm

Mig-Eater,

I was critical myself on here about the paltry flying line up, there are other contributing factors which I believe caused that, one I imagine is the as yet to be rescinded decision to ban privately operated swept wing aircraft from flying aerobatics. If the post-Shoreham ruling was lifted I believe the organisers would have had a harvest with the SWAFHF added to the flying. That would have made the event more what everyone expected. I was, I hope, constructive as well in my expectations for future events. That said, I do agree with your sentiment about the, perhaps, unintended and unappreciated, impact on the event by the abundant and more pejorative critique on UKAR which (time to reach for the tin helmet) tends to ace the base at negative commentary and more curiously, negative predictions for the future generally. I don't know what sort of impact the latter has but if any at all, it certainly won't be inspiring.

FB

PS Further to the above, before anyone throws Cosford at me, my criticism there was entirely based on past experience and I did wish this year's event well and, as I understand, it was indeed a success. :biggrin:
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Re: Scampton Airshow 2018

Postby XX752 on Thu 09 Aug 2018, 2:09 pm

MiG_Eater wrote:But the point is, I can't help but think the hiding the show took from websites like this in some ways contributed to its demise. It certainly didn't help.

I guess BossMann's enthusiasm is the opposite. Maybe it will make a difference, maybe not - but I can't see that it will cause any harm; and it may just offer some encouragement.

Airshows are more important to people than many realise!


The comments on here did not contribute to it's demise, as a matter of fact the organisers seem to largely ignore pretty much anything that was put to them - poor line up, not value for money etc.

The initial feedback and press releases were indeed very positive, all that changed when it became apparent behind the scenes that Scampton was going to close - an airshow could not be seen to establish and grow on a base that is scheduled to close.
XX752

Re: Scampton Airshow 2018

Postby Finningley Boy on Thu 09 Aug 2018, 3:32 pm

XX752 wrote:
MiG_Eater wrote:But the point is, I can't help but think the hiding the show took from websites like this in some ways contributed to its demise. It certainly didn't help.

I guess BossMann's enthusiasm is the opposite. Maybe it will make a difference, maybe not - but I can't see that it will cause any harm; and it may just offer some encouragement.

Airshows are more important to people than many realise!


The comments on here did not contribute to it's demise, as a matter of fact the organisers seem to largely ignore pretty much anything that was put to them - poor line up, not value for money etc.

The initial feedback and press releases were indeed very positive, all that changed when it became apparent behind the scenes that Scampton was going to close - an airshow could not be seen to establish and grow on a base that is scheduled to close.


I certainly missed something here, the first I knew Scampton was going to close was last month not last year. When did you find out?

FB
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Re: Scampton Airshow 2018

Postby aviodromefriend on Thu 09 Aug 2018, 8:50 pm

Finningley Boy wrote:the first I knew Scampton was going to close was last month not last year. When did you find out?
Dr. Pleming mentioned it in the last Display frequency, which wasn't last month, more like last year (if not longer ago).
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