Australian International Airshow Avalon 2015

Re: Australian International Airshow Avalon 2015

Postby Red Dragon on Thu 18 Dec 2014, 10:56 am

Adam L. wrote:
AARDVARK wrote:Are the Pacific demo team still operating?

Personally it will be great to see the RSAF viper as never seen that one before,tick off my list of viper demo's :)


The RSAF don't have an F-16 demo, if they do something it will be set up especially for Avalon. None of the demo teams here in Singapore last more than a couple of shows. The Pacific team are operating, I saw them in February, but I found them extremely disappointing when compared with other F-16 demos, including that of the RSAF in 2010.


Participation List Update

Seems to be a USAF F-16C Viper display with a Misawa based airframe (as it was at the previous show)

Royal Australian Air Force
KC-30A MRTT
Hawk 127
KA350 King Air
E-7A Wedgetail
F/A-18 A/B Hornet
F/A-18F Super Hornet
C-17A Globemaster III
Heron RPA
AP-3C Orion
C-130J Hercules
PC-9/A
PC-9/A Roulettes

Royal Australian Navy
AS350B Squirrel
MH-60R Seahawk
MRH-90 Taipan

Australian Army
ARH Tiger
MRH-90

There will also be major displays of the ADF’s ground based equipment and capabilities including:
Military Working Dogs
Air Force Band
Federation Guard
Explosive Ordnance Display
Deployable Communications Display
Air Force Engineering Display
Mock-up of F-35A (Joint Strike Fighter)

Foreign Military

US Air Force
F-22 Raptor
F-16C Viper
KC-135R Stratotanker
RQ-4 Global Hawk

US Navy
P-8A Poseidon
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Re: Australian International Airshow Avalon 2015

Postby Adam L. on Thu 18 Dec 2014, 11:21 am

Nice additions, but it would be nice if they could tell us whether they're flying or static - same for the RAAF aircraft too. I also noticed that they have added some new website pages claiming that they have the world's only night time airshow, I've actually sent them a message about that.
Adam Landau
Editor, www.thisisflight.net
Adam L.

Re: Australian International Airshow Avalon 2015

Postby Red Dragon on Thu 18 Dec 2014, 11:50 am

Adam L. wrote:Nice additions, but it would be nice if they could tell us whether they're flying or static - same for the RAAF aircraft too.
True, However I think it's a given on the trainer & fighter fleets aircraft, I would like to see the Wedgetail airborne, along with possibly the last time to see a RAAF AP-3C Orion doing a display.

I'm assuming
the world's only night time airshow
means the "Twilight" show when the C-130J did the flare drop, the glider sparking off and Otto the Helicopter before the closing Wall of fire and fireworks, however if it's something different then all the better and they need to clarify it! :smile:
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Red Dragon

Re: Australian International Airshow Avalon 2015

Postby Adam L. on Thu 18 Dec 2014, 11:53 am

Red Dragon wrote:
Adam L. wrote:Nice additions, but it would be nice if they could tell us whether they're flying or static - same for the RAAF aircraft too.
True, However I think it's a given on the trainer & fighter fleets aircraft, I would like to see the Wedgetail airborne, along with possibly the last time to see a RAAF AP-3C Orion doing a display.

I'm assuming
the world's only night time airshow
means the "Twilight" show when the C-130J did the flare drop, the glider sparking off and Otto the Helicopter before the closing Wall of fire and fireworks, however if it's something different then all the better and they need to clarify it! :smile:


But there are night time/evening airshows at Sanicole, Oshkosh, Sunderland, Shuttleworth, Fort Worth, Sun 'n Fun, Bournemouth etc. etc. How are they different exactly?
Adam Landau
Editor, www.thisisflight.net
Adam L.

Re: Australian International Airshow Avalon 2015

Postby Red Dragon on Thu 18 Dec 2014, 12:09 pm

Adam L. wrote:
Red Dragon wrote:
Adam L. wrote:Nice additions, but it would be nice if they could tell us whether they're flying or static - same for the RAAF aircraft too.
True, However I think it's a given on the trainer & fighter fleets aircraft, I would like to see the Wedgetail airborne, along with possibly the last time to see a RAAF AP-3C Orion doing a display.

I'm assuming
the world's only night time airshow
means the "Twilight" show when the C-130J did the flare drop, the glider sparking off and Otto the Helicopter before the closing Wall of fire and fireworks, however if it's something different then all the better and they need to clarify it! :smile:


But there are night time/evening airshows at Sanicole, Oshkosh, Sunderland, Shuttleworth, Fort Worth, Sun 'n Fun, Bournemouth etc. etc. How are they different exactly?


It forgot to add "In the Southern Hemisphere"? :dunno:
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Red Dragon

Re: Australian International Airshow Avalon 2015

Postby Adam L. on Thu 18 Dec 2014, 12:13 pm

Red Dragon wrote:It forgot to add "In the Southern Hemisphere"? :dunno:


Maybe. Well we'll see if anything changes after my email
Adam Landau
Editor, www.thisisflight.net
Adam L.

Re: Australian International Airshow Avalon 2015

Postby Norman on Thu 18 Dec 2014, 9:42 pm

All very well to speculate on what will attend gentlemen

As someone who has attended every event held there since its inception as part of the official media i can tell you it is not what may or may not attend that concerns me ( they usually manage a good show with a rabbit or two pulled out of the hat !)

It's the weather, from lunchtime on you are shooting into the sun and the haze, yes media get limited access to the other side of the runway but its the variable Melbourne weather where you can get , strong winds, rain, baking heat haze/sun and dust all in an hour or less that concerns me

It is a terrible venue for anyone into serious Aircraft photography yes we all manage but to be truthful it is not a cakewalk ( unlike many European shows i have attended in comparison)

Getting back to attendees we are extremely fortunate to have such a close relationship with the American's who always deliver the goods, keep in mind where Avalon is in relation to the rest of the world, go have a look at a world map and calculate flying distances,costs, availability etc
Avalon is very lucky to get what it does in my opinion and puts on a good show despite distance restricting attendees ( i seriously doubt there is an air force in the world not looking at cost/benefits)

A few Avalon's ago we had some RAF Tornado's attend as they were exercising in India and made the LONG trip here, i was interviewing one of the pilots when a member of the press ? ( i use that word loosely) rudely interrupted me and asked the pilot 'Hey mate....what are you going to bring next time ' ?

The guy had just landed, he looked very tired and i will always admire his courteous response ' Sir he said.... do you realise how far Avalon is from the UK' ? the guy asking the question just walked away, it IS a long way from most air arms and who has the money for fuel and operational availability etc to attend needs to be considered

Now if things were different and Avalon could piggy back on the large military exercises in the area say Pitch Black held in Darwin where of recent times Indonesian , Thai , USAF, Singapore etc participants that never make Avalon may be persuaded to combine their visit that would make for a varied show, however the organisers are constrained by their own expectations , costs, infrastructure and what they believe will attract a crowd on the public days, remember people in this part of the world are starved of this type of event and providing the good ole USAF send something spectacular it will ensure a sellout, bloggers, web site participants etc may pontificate they can or should do this or do that but it will make little or no impact in reality, it is what it is, i have seen this type of discussion after and before every event and it has little impact,

It is also relevent i believe to consider the 'type' of press that helps Avalon is local T.V, Newspapers, and to some extent radio , bloggers, websites etc really dont draw the vast numbers a TV report on National news of F22's taking off in full afterburner will, its as simple as that,

And yes the media people at the show may at times use a little' artistic licence' by saying they have the worlds only Night show, so what ? yes its inaccurate we all know that but what real harm does it do ? i will be very interested in their response if indeed you get one, perhaps they should say ' One of the worlds best Night shows' ? but its a moot point , it wont stop people going , what will stop them is cold wind and rain ! the fickle weather is a huge factor, we have had washouts, baked events with 40 degree days and wind that would blow the freckles off anyone out in it !

Consider also Airline's use Avalon as an active airport and the airshow organisers have to work with them during the show, now that can't be easy either,

I am not posting this to defend the organisers but to add some other views ( my own) i do not expect others to agree with me

Just my thoughts

Cheers
Norman

Re: Australian International Airshow Avalon 2015

Postby Adam L. on Thu 18 Dec 2014, 10:33 pm

Norman wrote:All very well to speculate on what will attend gentlemen

As someone who has attended every event held there since its inception as part of the official media i can tell you it is not what may or may not attend that concerns me ( they usually manage a good show with a rabbit or two pulled out of the hat !)

It's the weather, from lunchtime on you are shooting into the sun and the haze, yes media get limited access to the other side of the runway but its the variable Melbourne weather where you can get , strong winds, rain, baking heat haze/sun and dust all in an hour or less that concerns me

It is a terrible venue for anyone into serious Aircraft photography yes we all manage but to be truthful it is not a cakewalk ( unlike many European shows i have attended in comparison)

Getting back to attendees we are extremely fortunate to have such a close relationship with the American's who always deliver the goods, keep in mind where Avalon is in relation to the rest of the world, go have a look at a world map and calculate flying distances,costs, availability etc
Avalon is very lucky to get what it does in my opinion and puts on a good show despite distance restricting attendees ( i seriously doubt there is an air force in the world not looking at cost/benefits)

A few Avalon's ago we had some RAF Tornado's attend as they were exercising in India and made the LONG trip here, i was interviewing one of the pilots when a member of the press ? ( i use that word loosely) rudely interrupted me and asked the pilot 'Hey mate....what are you going to bring next time ' ?

The guy had just landed, he looked very tired and i will always admire his courteous response ' Sir he said.... do you realise how far Avalon is from the UK' ? the guy asking the question just walked away, it IS a long way from most air arms and who has the money for fuel and operational availability etc to attend needs to be considered

Now if things were different and Avalon could piggy back on the large military exercises in the area say Pitch Black held in Darwin where of recent times Indonesian , Thai , USAF, Singapore etc participants that never make Avalon may be persuaded to combine their visit that would make for a varied show, however the organisers are constrained by their own expectations , costs, infrastructure and what they believe will attract a crowd on the public days, remember people in this part of the world are starved of this type of event and providing the good ole USAF send something spectacular it will ensure a sellout, bloggers, web site participants etc may pontificate they can or should do this or do that but it will make little or no impact in reality, it is what it is, i have seen this type of discussion after and before every event and it has little impact,

It is also relevent i believe to consider the 'type' of press that helps Avalon is local T.V, Newspapers, and to some extent radio , bloggers, websites etc really dont draw the vast numbers a TV report on National news of F22's taking off in full afterburner will, its as simple as that,

And yes the media people at the show may at times use a little' artistic licence' by saying they have the worlds only Night show, so what ? yes its inaccurate we all know that but what real harm does it do ? i will be very interested in their response if indeed you get one, perhaps they should say ' One of the worlds best Night shows' ? but its a moot point , it wont stop people going , what will stop them is cold wind and rain ! the fickle weather is a huge factor, we have had washouts, baked events with 40 degree days and wind that would blow the freckles off anyone out in it !

Consider also Airline's use Avalon as an active airport and the airshow organisers have to work with them during the show, now that can't be easy either,

I am not posting this to defend the organisers but to add some other views ( my own) i do not expect others to agree with me

Just my thoughts

Cheers


Nice to hear from someone who's actually been! I agree about participation, and US aircraft aside the only other aircraft I'm going to speculate about is the Black Knights, and that's only due to a press release I received about a year ago. From my perspective it's a perfectly good lineup as it is now, but if they want to add some more military aircraft then I'm not complaining!

I'm not really worried about the heat haze etc. as my photographer has shown me some other work from past Avalons and they're perfectly decent. He's never been as official media before and he's still managed to get some very good shots, so it doesn't really bother me. I would have just make things a bit more convenient for us.

I don't agree about the night show bit as it's false advertising. There's even another air display in Australia with a night air display (I know, I'm going in a couple of weeks). It's not going to change the number of people who attend or anything like that, it just annoys me because it's obviously so blatantly wrong.
Adam Landau
Editor, www.thisisflight.net
Adam L.

Re: Australian International Airshow Avalon 2015

Postby Norman on Thu 18 Dec 2014, 11:07 pm

No worries Adam i hear what your saying

In regards to false advertising or false reporting it is my firm belief a large proportion of the worlds press have completely lost the plot, an old editor of mine used to say, 'never let the truth get in the way of a good story' at the time i thought that ridiculous, funny thing is i still do !!!

Yes one can get reasonable images at Avalon but then everyones definition of reasonable differs widely !!

Here is a shot i took at the last Avalon on the first trade day, weather conditions etc did not allow me to repeat it in the proceeding 5 days ! i was one of two media that obtained similar on that day LUCK has a lot to do with it also

cheers

[url][url=https://flic.kr/p/e2N2qQ]Image[/url]_SEL8718 by Nikon boy1, on Flickr/url]
Norman

Re: Australian International Airshow Avalon 2015

Postby Adam L. on Thu 18 Dec 2014, 11:13 pm

Norman wrote:Yes one can get reasonable images at Avalon but then everyones definition of reasonable differs widely !!

Here is a shot i took at the last Avalon on the first trade day, weather conditions etc did not allow me to repeat it in the proceeding 5 days ! i was one of two media that obtained similar on that day LUCK has a lot to do with it also

[url][url=https://flic.kr/p/e2N2qQ]Image[/url]_SEL8718 by Nikon boy1, on Flickr/url]


I've never been to Avalon before so I can't comment on photography, but my photographer has shared with me 150 photos from Avalon 2013. They're not all top quality but there are at least 20 really good ones, and for my type of site that's all that's required.

Important participation news: the RSAF have just announced a PC-21 and Super Puma for the static display, there might be more to come...
Adam Landau
Editor, www.thisisflight.net
Adam L.

Re: Australian International Airshow Avalon 2015

Postby Red Dragon on Fri 19 Dec 2014, 1:16 am

Norman wrote:All very well to speculate on what will attend gentlemen

As someone who has attended every event held there since its inception as part of the official media i can tell you it is not what may or may not attend that concerns me ( they usually manage a good show with a rabbit or two pulled out of the hat !)

It's the weather, from lunchtime on you are shooting into the sun and the haze, yes media get limited access to the other side of the runway but its the variable Melbourne weather where you can get , strong winds, rain, baking heat haze/sun and dust all in an hour or less that concerns me

It is a terrible venue for anyone into serious Aircraft photography yes we all manage but to be truthful it is not a cakewalk ( unlike many European shows i have attended in comparison)

Getting back to attendees we are extremely fortunate to have such a close relationship with the American's who always deliver the goods, keep in mind where Avalon is in relation to the rest of the world, go have a look at a world map and calculate flying distances,costs, availability etc
Avalon is very lucky to get what it does in my opinion and puts on a good show despite distance restricting attendees ( i seriously doubt there is an air force in the world not looking at cost/benefits)

A few Avalon's ago we had some RAF Tornado's attend as they were exercising in India and made the LONG trip here, i was interviewing one of the pilots when a member of the press ? ( i use that word loosely) rudely interrupted me and asked the pilot 'Hey mate....what are you going to bring next time ' ?

The guy had just landed, he looked very tired and i will always admire his courteous response ' Sir he said.... do you realise how far Avalon is from the UK' ? the guy asking the question just walked away, it IS a long way from most air arms and who has the money for fuel and operational availability etc to attend needs to be considered

Now if things were different and Avalon could piggy back on the large military exercises in the area say Pitch Black held in Darwin where of recent times Indonesian , Thai , USAF, Singapore etc participants that never make Avalon may be persuaded to combine their visit that would make for a varied show, however the organisers are constrained by their own expectations , costs, infrastructure and what they believe will attract a crowd on the public days, remember people in this part of the world are starved of this type of event and providing the good ole USAF send something spectacular it will ensure a sellout, bloggers, web site participants etc may pontificate they can or should do this or do that but it will make little or no impact in reality, it is what it is, i have seen this type of discussion after and before every event and it has little impact,

It is also relevent i believe to consider the 'type' of press that helps Avalon is local T.V, Newspapers, and to some extent radio , bloggers, websites etc really dont draw the vast numbers a TV report on National news of F22's taking off in full afterburner will, its as simple as that,

And yes the media people at the show may at times use a little' artistic licence' by saying they have the worlds only Night show, so what ? yes its inaccurate we all know that but what real harm does it do ? i will be very interested in their response if indeed you get one, perhaps they should say ' One of the worlds best Night shows' ? but its a moot point , it wont stop people going , what will stop them is cold wind and rain ! the fickle weather is a huge factor, we have had washouts, baked events with 40 degree days and wind that would blow the freckles off anyone out in it !

Consider also Airline's use Avalon as an active airport and the airshow organisers have to work with them during the show, now that can't be easy either,

I am not posting this to defend the organisers but to add some other views ( my own) i do not expect others to agree with me

Just my thoughts

Cheers


Good to hear from a long time visitor to Avalon.

I'm not in anyway having a pop at the Avalon organisation, I just find it exciting hoping to see a different Air Force for the first time. The amount of advice I got in the media tent from other media photographers they pointed out to me to sign up to visit the other side of the runway for the Raptor and Temora Formation etc.

I'm flying into Aussie specifically to visit RAAF & RAN facilities (museums & airfields) so I'm arriving in Melbourne then onto Sydney (Nowra & Williamtown) back to Melbourne (Point Cook) then to do Avalon then Perth (Pierce) then finally returning to Melbourne to fly home back to Wales to then do a presentation to a aviation club on the whole Aussie airshow scene.

Having done 100's of UK airshows over 30+ years I enjoyed my first avalon (2013) as it was so refreshing to have the weather and the civilised (yes, civilised) people not trying to crush you to get "that" photo!

So yes I may ponder "who/ what next?" I know I'll thoroughly enjoy every minute of my time there, and having been used to UK airshow weather, yes even in Aussie I'll be carrying waterproofs as another guy I know went to avalon 2011 on Friday (I think) and it lashed down!

Good to see Singapore confirm participation with PC-21 & Super Puma, but I'd like to see other types/ units if possible.

On the whole I can't wait for the whole 5 days I'll be there for :yahoo:
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Red Dragon

Re: Australian International Airshow Avalon 2015

Postby Norman on Fri 19 Dec 2014, 1:27 am

Red Dragon

Have you considered visiting Moorabbin air museum whilst in Melbourne ?

Seems like you have it all in hand though so maybe you have been before or discounted it

Hope you have a safe and enjoyable trip

Cheers
Norman

Re: Australian International Airshow Avalon 2015

Postby Red Dragon on Fri 19 Dec 2014, 1:43 am

Norman wrote:Red Dragon

Have you considered visiting Moorabbin air museum whilst in Melbourne ?

Seems like you have it all in hand though so maybe you have been before or discounted it

Hope you have a safe and enjoyable trip

Cheers


I visited Moorabin on my last visit to Melbourne (I got lost trying to find it, the directions I got were wrong!) if only the Beaufighter & Firefly could fly!

Many thanks Norman, could I PM you with any questions about Avalon that might crop up in the next few weeks?
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Red Dragon

Re: Australian International Airshow Avalon 2015

Postby Norman on Fri 19 Dec 2014, 4:31 am

Please feel free to P.M. me and i will help if i can

cheers
Norman

Re: Australian International Airshow Avalon 2015

Postby AARDVARK on Fri 19 Dec 2014, 11:11 am

I remember Avalon's when the highlight was a RAAF F-111 night dump and burn,amazing.
Regular attendee :)
AARDVARK

Re: Australian International Airshow Avalon 2015

Postby Matt W. on Sun 21 Dec 2014, 4:32 am

The official website has been updated and it has said that the Airbus A400M will attend. :yahoo:

But it's only going to be static. :sad:


(Source: http://www.airshow.com.au/airshow2015/P ... rcraft.asp)
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Re: Australian International Airshow Avalon 2015

Postby whitecat on Mon 22 Dec 2014, 9:03 am

Black Knights are coming :yahoo: :yahoo: :yahoo:
They just annouced it on their facebook
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Re: Australian International Airshow Avalon 2015

Postby Red Dragon on Mon 22 Dec 2014, 1:05 pm

Well, there's another formation team to strike off my list! :clap: :clap: :clap:

Having just read the blurb, one thing stands out to me. The F-16's are numbered on the tails in the photos as numbers '5' and '6', the Black Knights are known as a 6 ship team, but in the final paragraph of the blurb it says.....

The RSAF is sending three of its F-16 jet aircraft to Avalon along with two of its PC-21 trainer Aircraft.


So are we getting a detachment of 3 of the Black Knights or the whole Black Knights team and also three other RSAF (static) F-16's?

However way it goes for me, I'm made up with this! :yahoo: :rock: :yahoo:
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Re: Australian International Airshow Avalon 2015

Postby AARDVARK on Mon 22 Dec 2014, 5:21 pm

I would have to assume that it's a pairs demo routine rather than the full 6 ship, due to logistics and cost,but they still fly under the Black Knights , rather like Russian Knights when they sometimes perform oversees,can't wait though, great addition,on top of USAF Raptor and F16 solo Demo :)
AARDVARK

Re: Australian International Airshow Avalon 2015

Postby Matt W. on Mon 22 Dec 2014, 9:52 pm

Red Dragon wrote:Well, there's another formation team to strike off my list! :clap: :clap: :clap:

Having just read the blurb, one thing stands out to me. The F-16's are numbered on the tails in the photos as numbers '5' and '6', the Black Knights are known as a 6 ship team, but in the final paragraph of the blurb it says.....

The RSAF is sending three of its F-16 jet aircraft to Avalon along with two of its PC-21 trainer Aircraft.


So are we getting a detachment of 3 of the Black Knights or the whole Black Knights team and also three other RSAF (static) F-16's?

However way it goes for me, I'm made up with this!


We're only getting three F-16's, one will be static and two will be flying, sadly we don't get the whole team. :sad:

It's still going to be a great show! :yahoo:

This link has got some more information if you'd like,
(https://www.facebook.com/AustralianInte ... 2210557451)
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Matt W.

Re: Australian International Airshow Avalon 2015

Postby Mike S. on Tue 23 Dec 2014, 1:51 am

Interesting the Black Knights would send just a part of the team. Considering the press release is accompanied by photos of the solo pilots, it appears it will be some form of pairs display featuring the solos.

Is there a precedent for such a thing among the major teams? I'm not very familiar with the European teams, but it's not something the American teams would ever do.

Still a coup for the airshow I suppose, having never before hosted an international aerobatic team. If you can still refer to the 2 solos as an aerobatic 'team'?


Great post btw Norman, I’ve also been to every single one since 92 & I would agree with just about everything you wrote. Looking forward to returning for #12
Mike S.

Re: Australian International Airshow Avalon 2015

Postby Adam L. on Tue 23 Dec 2014, 11:15 am

I go away for a few days and look what's announced while I'm offline! Although I guessed they might come...
Adam Landau
Editor, www.thisisflight.net
Adam L.

Re: Australian International Airshow Avalon 2015

Postby Adam L. on Tue 23 Dec 2014, 11:17 am

Just seen this from the organisers: Just to clarify for those who have commented the RSAF is sending three of its F-16 jet aircraft to Avalon (with two flying) along with two of its PC-21 trainer Aircraft.

So it's only a 2-ship
Adam Landau
Editor, www.thisisflight.net
Adam L.

Re: Australian International Airshow Avalon 2015

Postby aviodromefriend on Wed 24 Dec 2014, 10:58 am

Mike S. wrote:Is there a precedent for such a thing among the major teams?
The Koreans flew a single ship at Farnborough I thought, also the Reds once flew a four ship at (I think) Leeuwarden due to John Egging having passed away earlier and another pilot arriving ill.
A weather forecast is a forecast and just that

Mike Moses, Launch Integration Manager Space Shuttle Program
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aviodromefriend

Re: Australian International Airshow Avalon 2015

Postby Adam L. on Fri 26 Dec 2014, 7:14 am

I got a reply from Avalon about that false advertising thing. The PR people said said:

'Your claim that we “continuously state that "Friday Night Alight" is the world's only night time airshow.” (in our media releases and on our website) does not seem to be borne out by the facts.'

Meanwhile, sitting for the world to see on this page (http://www.airshow.com.au/airshow2015/P ... /index.asp) is the following:

"When the gates open to the public on Friday afternoon, a full flying display program will commence, culminating in Friday's unique "Night Alight Finale".
It is the world’s only night time airshow."

I wouldn't usually think much of the error but the fact that I'm going to an event with a night time air display in Australia only next week did unfortunately awake my irritating pedantic side!
Adam Landau
Editor, www.thisisflight.net
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