What's happened to the Thunder City jets?

[DanO1978]

The Thunder City website is still up and running, but what is the latest status of the jets? Not seen any mention of them since the reports of the company closing to paying passengers - are they under cover, or in "storage" outdoors?

[stonesfan]

Have the jets reached the end of their airframe life I wonder?

If not, I do wonder what the chances are of one ever actually flying in the UK again?

[StevenH]

I do wonder what the chances are of one ever actually flying in the UK again?

Zero.

[stonesfan]

I do wonder what the chances are of one ever actually flying in the UK again?

Zero.

What are the main reasons for that?

[Vodka]

Reason - The CAA

[StevenH]

Reason - The CAA

What he said.

[MrAngry2]

I actually asked this on Facebook 2 days ago, No one really seemed to know, although the theory is the Lightnings have had bits nicked for the new Land-speed record attempt.

[stonesfan]

Reason - The CAA

There are plenty of other 'heritage' jets flying! Am not questioning your response, just wondering why the CAA would not want the Lightning or the Buccaneer flying at a UK Airshow when they've been carrying passengers for the last 20 odd years.

[Rory76]

This has been raised on several occasions in the past (once by me when I first joined). Basically boils down to the complexity of the aircraft (afterburners being one issue), safety record (very poor when in RAF service) and (may be wrong on this one) reluctance of a company to accept design authority for it (presumably BAe in its current guise). Allied to this is the fact that the UK is much more crowded and has a much more congested airspace than South Africa or the USA, and the risks associated with a major malfunction are much greater.

It's a classic jet that I'd love to see fly (probably the only classic I hold in greater regard than the Vulcan), but I think it is, sadly, unrealistic that they will ever be allowed to fly in the UK.

[DanH]

From what I recall the CAA aren't willing to let any supersonic aircraft be operated in civilian hands.

[shaggy101]

What about the hunter, that can go supersonic. Only just though.

[StevenH]

This has been raised on several occasions in the past (once by me when I first joined). Basically boils down to the complexity of the aircraft (afterburners being one issue), safety record (very poor when in RAF service) and (may be wrong on this one) reluctance of a company to accept design authority for it (presumably BAe in its current guise). Allied to this is the fact that the UK is much more crowded and has a much more congested airspace than South Africa or the USA, and the risks associated with a major malfunction are much greater.

It's a classic jet that I'd love to see fly (probably the only classic I hold in greater regard than the Vulcan), but I think it is, sadly, unrealistic that they will ever be allowed to fly in the UK.

This tallies up with what I've heard also. I seem to recall something about problems with hydraulics specifically, can't remember details though?

[MrAngry2]

Pretty much what I thought also, wasnt there a bit of debate about the Buccaneers Flap system causing a bit of a problem for the CAA to ok one flying as well.

[kalachnik]

Pretty much what I thought also, wasnt there a bit of debate about the Buccaneers Flap system causing a bit of a problem for the CAA to ok one flying as well.

But it must be noted that the Hawker Hunter Aviation company have a Buccaneer that was cleared to fly by the CAA in 2006 or around then. But as far as I know it has never been flown, and awaits a contract so it can be utilised.



And here she is....

[CH2]

The Buccs were not all owned by TC, Ian Pringle owned one;

http://www.thunder-and-lightnings.co.uk ... php?id=105

[Rory76]

Pretty much what I thought also, wasnt there a bit of debate about the Buccaneers Flap system causing a bit of a problem for the CAA to ok one flying as well.

But it must be noted that the Hawker Hunter Aviation company have a Buccaneer that was cleared to fly by the CAA in 2006 or around then. But as far as I know it has never been flown, and awaits a contract so it can be utilised.



And here she is....

Was just about to reply in a similar vein- unfortunately they are very much a commercial operation and have their aircraft purely for use in their "Aggressor" training contracts. They have no intention at all of using it on the display circuit.

[Trident 3B]

its basically down to what rory76 said regarding complexity of the aircraft. A hunter is a very different beast to a lightning. As has alredy been mentioned the lightning had the nickname of the frightning in service due to the complexity and poor safty record. i understand that the fuel system alone is an absolute nightmare.
However thunder city did show in the most that they were safe to operate, but of course even they suffered a very servere failure resulting in fatalities, so that wont encourage the CAA in the UK to assist getting the lightnings airbourne.
Another major stumbling block is design authority which would be BAe system in this case, they are reluctant to say the least but the return to air of '558 showed that even they could come round to supporting the return to flight. (this is also one of the main stumbling block regarding Concorde, but thats another story...)

unless someone comes along with huge amounts of cash and time , we will NEVER see a lightning in the UK skies.

[tommercer]

Pretty much what I thought also, wasnt there a bit of debate about the Buccaneers Flap system causing a bit of a problem for the CAA to ok one flying as well.

But it must be noted that the Hawker Hunter Aviation company have a Buccaneer that was cleared to fly by the CAA in 2006 or around then. But as far as I know it has never been flown, and awaits a contract so it can be utilised.



And here she is....

Was just about to reply in a similar vein- unfortunately they are very much a commercial operation and have their aircraft purely for use in their "Aggressor" training contracts. They have no intention at all of using it on the display circuit.

I wrote to the HHA back in 2009 asking about the Bucc they owned. They informed me that it was flight worthy, but would only fly if a contract was picked up as you've already said. However, they did let on that they'd had some interest from certain companies regarding whether they'd be able to participate in sea trials of the Queen Elizabeth class carriers anti missile systems. So if you believe that, all is not lost!

[F-86]

What about the hunter, that can go supersonic. Only just though.

The Sea Vixen is also capable of supersonic flight in a very shallow dive.
Hopefully one day a Buccaneer will take to the skies again.

[24left]

I'll be there in 2 weeks but reckon everything is inside as it always was. Big hangar and everything was always kept inside apart from the DC3. Here are some pics from 10 years ago when I was there.


there are direct links embedded here but they arent working! Here are the links.


http://i55.tinypic.com/16lyzj7.jpg

http://i52.tinypic.com/bg7m7s.jpg

[stonesfan]

From what I recall the CAA aren't willing to let any supersonic aircraft be operated in civilian hands.

Does make you wonder what made them come to this conclusion. We have pretty much proved since the 1950s that the World doesnt suddenly come to and end when an aircraft hits mach 1.0! Or is there another reasoning behind this?

[Mike]

Since Thunder City's experience operating Lightnings did not end well, that will only serve to re-inforce the CAA's view that they are unsuitable for civilian operation in the UK under any circumstances.

[24left]

I agree. First it catches fire and then worse still ejection seat fails. But that isnt Lightening specific though to me, complex yes.

[MrAngry2]

When I win Euro millions tonight, I will get a Bucc back on the circuit

[FGR2]

Isn't one of the problems that the engines and other fuel lines/ Hydraulics are so close together?

If a fuel line goes and catches fire, it then takes out your hydraulics and subsequent control of the aircraft.

As stated above, the tragic loss of the Lightning and it's pilot in South Africa, will only stengthen the CAA's view.