Thoughts on the show.

Thoughts on the show.

Postby pb643 on Sat 16 Jul 2011, 6:33 pm

Just got back, a few thoughts on the show.

No queues to get in and the security people seemed to have had a dose of common sense.

The forecast was bang on, thankfully giving a full afternoons flying.

A great shame the A10 went sick, it looked as though it was going to be a good one.

Disappointing that some of the afternoon displays cancelled.

Enjoyed the Raphael and Gripen.

However my overwhelming thought is why was none of the unusual items from the morning not slotted in to the afternoon? The C27, Saab 105, Italian Tornado and the Saudi team should all have been slotted in. That is unforgiveable! Also annoying when the commentators just say " oh well we will see them tomorrow" You might, but most people won't.

Overall the most disappointing RIAT I have attended in the last 20 odd years also the first time I have left seeing nothing new at all.

Regardless of the weather the show did seem to have a feeling of the beginning of the end to me.on't.

Overall the most disappointing RIAT I have attended in the last 20 odd years also the first time I have left seeing nothing new at all.

Regardless of the weather the show did seem to have a feeling of the beginning of the end to me.
pb643

Re: Thoughts on the show.

Postby Blippie on Sat 16 Jul 2011, 6:39 pm

pb643 wrote:However my overwhelming thought is why was none of the unusual items from the morning not slotted in to the afternoon? The C27, Saab 105, Italian Tornado and the Saudi team should all have been slotted in. That is unforgiveable!


Unfortunately it is more difficult than it looks to run an air display. The planning is painstaking and just doesn't allow for wholescale rejigging of the programme. It's not just the aircraft, but the pilots, crews, technical support. The mutliship displays have a higher requirement for emergency vehicles, bigger aircraft require a higher fire and rescue catagory, some aircraft require a parachute retrieval team or arrester gear to be rigged across the runway. And that doesn't even take in to account the "human factors" involved in suddenly changing plans at a short notice in a safety critical envrionment.

Yes it is a bummer, but unforgivable? No!

Cheers

Blippie
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Blippie

Re: Thoughts on the show.

Postby keithjs on Sat 16 Jul 2011, 6:47 pm

Yep, must agree with you there I'm afraid. Very poor on the whole (and you can't blame the weather for most of it)
As you say pity about one of the 'star' items not displaying later on in the day (Saudi Hawks) yes it is nice to know 'we'll see them tomorrow'.....is it? not really as some people have other lives to lead and are committed to one day. And why o why do we still have to contend with such a lousy static layout (mainly background features in my opinion) and those infernal blue cones....And as for the Hunters, totally inaccessable.
And you say no problems with entry queues? You obviously didn't see all the queue jumpers we did then.As for frisking all the little kiddes too....great threat they were.
Oh well if Legends does clash next year I know where I'll be.
In fact its the earliest we've ever left a RIAT, being off site by 3pm............
The word overrated springs to mind..... :sad:
...Rad shutters auto.
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Re: Thoughts on the show.

Postby the fairford mole on Sat 16 Jul 2011, 6:51 pm

Me and my better half got to fairford at just gone 6 and drove straight in from the blue route then got into the queue to get into the show...(gripe 1) we were prob 150 yards away from the front and waited patiently then 5-10 mins before the gates were due to open half a dozen people started to form another queue ahead of us, which soon turned into about 50 queue started to move and they followed, you need stewards to stop this from happening. Eventually got into the show got our spot right of the tower at the front....

Dissapointed about the weather but thats our british summer....was a shame that we lost our star attractions and have to agree that it would of been nice to see some of the rare stuff up but then what would you drop, kind of a catch 22 with that....also thought the vulcan display was not that exciting (and i love the vulcan) but just didnt seem to have the v factor as it had at abingdon.

Static was good with some lovely rareaties, but with so much space and not much aircraft maybe squeeze it in abit. But overall thought the show was average not the best not the worse and this was my 21st air tattoo since 1983 when i was only 10 months old,
So roll on next year and lets hope its bigger better and with better weather.
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the fairford mole

Re: Thoughts on the show.

Postby MarkL on Sat 16 Jul 2011, 7:08 pm

I desperately want to enjoy RIAT.

This was my 18th or 19th and I am so disapointed.

I thought having alot of the flyers on the public side was a great idea and then I realised why. If they had been live side what was left would have been pityful. A clever way to build up the static. For a numbers guy like myself it was advantage for sure BUT when I get on base at 9am and have finished logging everything in two hours, well, thats a first for me.

I feel very sorry for the organisers concerning the weather this morning and it seems it cleared up later.

I know a common reponse will be about current commitments, cutbacks etc. BUT knowing that I still feel very disapointed and a little out of pocket.

I will be back next year and as an optimist I am expecting it to get better.

MarkL

ps, thought the Marco piece was excellent Dan.

EDIT I thought the positioning of the Tiger aircraft was excellent. Must have given some fantastic shots when the sun came out :smile:
Last edited by MarkL on Sat 16 Jul 2011, 7:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Thoughts on the show.

Postby pb643 on Sat 16 Jul 2011, 7:08 pm

Blippie wrote:
pb643 wrote:However my overwhelming thought is why was none of the unusual items from the morning not slotted in to the afternoon? The C27, Saab 105, Italian Tornado and the Saudi team should all have been slotted in. That is unforgiveable!


Unfortunately it is more difficult than it looks to run an air display. The planning is painstaking and just doesn't allow for wholescale rejigging of the programme. It's not just the aircraft, but the pilots, crews, technical support. The mutliship displays have a higher requirement for emergency vehicles, bigger aircraft require a higher fire and rescue catagory, some aircraft require a parachute retrieval team or arrester gear to be rigged across the runway. And that doesn't even take in to account the "human factors" involved in suddenly changing plans at a short notice in a safety critical envrionment.

Yes it is a bummer, but unforgivable? No!

Cheers

Blippie


The forecast has been clear fir over a week, the weather behaved exactly as forecast. A plan should have been made. At fairford the same level of fire cover remains all day and teams had been planned at points throughout the day, in fact the first act was a team.

The afternoons display had a number of cancellations and had been completely rejigged, so i am afraid none of your reasons seem relevant in this particular case.

After all the Saudi team was the only new item to the show this year.

Of course it could be that they did not want to display?


Also should say the Hunter would be in the star items that should have been given an afternoon slot.
Last edited by pb643 on Sat 16 Jul 2011, 8:40 pm, edited 3 times in total.
pb643

Re: Thoughts on the show.

Postby Trevsy on Sat 16 Jul 2011, 7:20 pm

Anybody know what's wrong with the A-10, and whether it's likely to miss tomorrow?
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Re: Thoughts on the show.

Postby Mictheslik on Sat 16 Jul 2011, 7:25 pm

Just got back from 'Freeloading' at Rhymes. No problems getting in or out.....traffic was very good. Shame about the morning cancellations, but that's to be expected given the awful weather. What flew in the afternoon was brilliant (Rafale in particular) and what we saw of the A10 was good :)

Light in the evening was spot on too.....really enjoyed the Frecci today, especially that mad 5 v5 crossover in about 3 directions :D

.mic
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Re: Thoughts on the show.

Postby tug23 on Sat 16 Jul 2011, 7:31 pm

Just got back from Totterdown,had a great day.Weather turned out nice.Nice to see the show from a different angle after going 'in'for the last 10 years.Some items should have been re-jigged(yes i know it's hard to re organise)The C-27J,Tornado,Hunters etc could have been put on at some time in the show.Highlights were...the Rafale,Dutch Apache,Gripen..Vulcan seemed a little sedate today,compared to other shows I've seen this season.A-10 going tech was a shame,it started well!

All in all a good day and the best view of RIAT you can get from Totterdown.

:smile:
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Re: Thoughts on the show.

Postby rigpig on Sat 16 Jul 2011, 7:40 pm

Today was good, however... . For one of the worlds premier shows it should have been better. I know it's not easy to re-jig things, but it's not impossible.
rigpig

Re: Thoughts on the show.

Postby copperband on Sat 16 Jul 2011, 7:51 pm

I didn't arrive until 11.30 and so missed nothing.
I thought the weather was actually really good in the end,lots of blue sky which make great photo backdrops.
I didn't have to queue at all in or out so that was good.
I thought the displays were great but then I haven't been for a few years so I wouldn't know if they were same as recent year's. It was a shame not to see the Saudi hawks as the Red arrows as always were great as were the Italian Tricolore who gave a great display.
I also liked the typhoon display.

Overall for me it was :up:
copperband

Re: Thoughts on the show.

Postby colinp on Sat 16 Jul 2011, 7:51 pm

[quote][Unfortunately it is more difficult than it looks to run an air display. The planning is painstaking and just doesn't allow for wholescale rejigging of the programme. It's not just the aircraft, but the pilots, crews, technical support. The mutliship displays have a higher requirement for emergency vehicles, bigger aircraft require a higher fire and rescue catagory, some aircraft require a parachute retrieval team or arrester gear to be rigged across the runway. And that doesn't even take in to account the "human factors" involved in suddenly changing plans at a short notice in a safety critical envrionment./quote]

The complete Koksijde air was time shifted last week, I am sorry but am am less than convinced by these arguments. I agree the Notams have been publushed and are not moveable. I could have predicted RIAT would be inflexible and the public short changed, they have done it before. I have been there too many times when an exotic jet has been cancelled due to weather early on and then later in good weather we have been treated to a Chipmunk display or the like which for me is like watching paint dry in a vast place like Fairford. i would be gutted, the a10 not showing would have really upset me. I can only assume it was a last minute problem as judging by photos they brought two to the show? When I heard su27 I thought I'm going then I saw static only...the way it was advertised was misleading in my book.

I hate to gloat in others disappointment but I am so glad I saved my money and didn't go. I have to agree this show seems on its last legs. Even the stalls seem to be more general and the intereting aviation type stalls less common, I guess purely down to commercial pressures and high pitch prices. Fairford used to be about planes and avuation, to me the focus has shifted too far to bouncy castles, other entertainments, etc etc. They need to refocus badly.
colinp

Re: Thoughts on the show.

Postby lozza on Sat 16 Jul 2011, 7:54 pm

Just got back from free loading at Totterdown, got TBH thought the latter half of the show from 3 onwards was outstanding, really enjoyed that, BUT why could the C27 and Saudi Hawks have not been given an afternoon slot after not being able to perform in the morning, the C27 yesterday was truely outstanding, surely they could have ditched the Grob and some of the other small prop stuff that flew, especially considering the late start, ok not there fault, but surely once the show got going start with a punch, all we got was two jets then hour half of small prop stuff that no one seemed to be watching.

As stated

It's not just the aircraft, but the pilots, crews, technical support. The mutliship displays have a higher requirement for emergency vehicles, bigger aircraft require a higher fire and rescue catagory, some aircraft require a parachute retrieval team or arrester gear to be rigged across the runway

Sorry but the fire crews are already in place, plus surely pilots and ground crew can work around time changes, people come to see something different so why not be a little more flexible, as i stated before with no disrespect to the skill of the Grob pilot, i know that i'd have rather seen a transport plane rolling and lopping like yesterday than watching the Grob, allot of paying public missed out there.

Shame about the A10 seemed to have a glitch yesterday as well, also guess that was a major cock up when both Breitling teams started displaying at the same time, certainally did not look good over Totterdown with two displays in the same airspace, bet those girls had a shock.

Still enjoyed my day and glad the weather came good

lozza
lozza

Re: Thoughts on the show.

Postby iaint on Sat 16 Jul 2011, 7:59 pm

Trevsy wrote:Anybody know what's wrong with the A-10, and whether it's likely to miss tomorrow?



Didn't it turn up as a pair, hopefully the other is in a position to be spare airframe for the Demo team...
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Re: Thoughts on the show.

Postby pbeardmore on Sat 16 Jul 2011, 8:19 pm

Sorry, can we just clarify something here?

Are some people who did not actually go in offering critiques of the show?
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Re: Thoughts on the show.

Postby Mantog on Sat 16 Jul 2011, 8:37 pm

Such a shame that it appears to have been a poor show today due to weather. I had to choose between Yeovilton and RIAT this year because I couldn't afford both, went with former. Going to RIAT would've cost me at least £150. This is my first post on here, etiquette dictates I'm not allowed to say anything controversial but it does seem unfair to pass judgement on something that cost millions to put together but cost you nothing. Anyway, I really hope tomorrow is better for those of you going and look forward to seeing plenty of A10 pics!
Mantog

Re: Thoughts on the show.

Postby profile_M on Sat 16 Jul 2011, 8:41 pm

Trevsy wrote:Anybody know what's wrong with the A-10, and whether it's likely to miss tomorrow?


He said on the radio it was an electrical fault with the stability augmentation system. Dont know about tomorrow but it was the same fault as Friday and he sorted it out in the air then.
Cotswold Airshow Events Team
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profile_M

Re: Thoughts on the show.

Postby copperband on Sat 16 Jul 2011, 8:42 pm

I can confirm I was actually at the show :smile:
It's just flashed back into my memory but I did think the Flybe "display" a bit random but provided a loo break opportunity.Fromm what I saw and heard it seemed like a flying advert and that could certainly have made way for one of the earlier cancellations.

I think the problem with anything that you have done before is that it can either be better than previously or worse and for those on here that have beea good many times I can understand this perhaps didn't better those previous visits?
I for one would be sorry if this was one of the last shows at Fairford as it's still great entertainment and was nice to see so many young kids there interested in the shows, better than just seeing the planes on Call of Duty on the Xbox...
copperband

Re: Thoughts on the show.

Postby jesterhud on Sat 16 Jul 2011, 8:44 pm

Will they please ask the people who run the stages/car shows/fair typt things to turn the volume down, way down.

I dont want to stand on the flightline at the front and be bombarded from behind with mindless drivel from these things :sad:
All the best freaks are here..
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Re: Thoughts on the show.

Postby Lightning on Sat 16 Jul 2011, 8:57 pm

jesterhud wrote:Will they please ask the people who run the stages/car shows/fair typt things to turn the volume down, way down.

I dont want to stand on the flightline at the front and be bombarded from behind with mindless drivel from these things :sad:


I was about to say exactly that! I've been to about a dozen RIATs over the years, but, weather aside, that bloody stage noise ruined the whole day for me. Almost half the airfield was bombarded with 'bass' and drivel from the loudest speakers I've ever heard.

I was 15ft from a tannoy, right on the crowdline and I could feel my chest thumping with every beat. I could barely hear the commentary either! It was that loud from the far East of the airfield, almost to the control tower :mad:

Traffic was good though :lol:
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Re: Thoughts on the show.

Postby F-22 Raptor A on Sat 16 Jul 2011, 9:10 pm

Having been in all day, I have to say i was gutted about the weather, and the cancellation of some of the stars. However the afternoon (other than A-10) was enjoyable...especially Rafale, typhoon and I thought the Vulcan was great....especially that spiral climb!

Goimg tomorrow, so hoping to catch the C-27j full display, greens and Italian Tonka!
F-22 Raptor A

Re: Thoughts on the show.

Postby copperband on Sat 16 Jul 2011, 9:11 pm

jesterhud wrote:Will they please ask the people who run the stages/car shows/fair typt things to turn the volume down, way down.

I dont want to stand on the flightline at the front and be bombarded from behind with mindless drivel from these things :sad:

100% with you on the Dutch DJ & hard house playing at full blast on the Waltsers needing switching off!
copperband

Re: Thoughts on the show.

Postby tornadof3 on Sat 16 Jul 2011, 9:12 pm

I have had some of the same thoughts as some people on here!

Thankfully I got to see the C27 looping and rolling on the Friday - a Display that would certainly have won a trophy!

Why were we subjected to two apaches (RAF one poor compared to Dutch!) a grob tutor, tucano And a flying advert for flybe!

C27 had to go up. Saudi hawks also - the travelled far enough for one!!

I could go on but c'mon RIAT - recognise the stars of the show!!
tornadof3

Re: Thoughts on the show.

Postby mtpg1 on Sat 16 Jul 2011, 9:25 pm

keithjs wrote:Yep, must agree with you there I'm afraid. Very poor on the whole (and you can't blame the weather for most of it)
As you say pity about one of the 'star' items not displaying later on in the day (Saudi Hawks) yes it is nice to know 'we'll see them tomorrow'.....is it? not really as some people have other lives to lead and are committed to one day. And why o why do we still have to contend with such a lousy static layout (mainly background features in my opinion) and those infernal blue cones....And as for the Hunters, totally inaccessable.
And you say no problems with entry queues? You obviously didn't see all the queue jumpers we did then.As for frisking all the little kiddes too....great threat they were.
Oh well if Legends does clash next year I know where I'll be.
In fact its the earliest we've ever left a RIAT, being off site by 3pm............
The word overrated springs to mind..... :sad:


you say, 'very poor on the whole' and you was off site for 3pm and complain about being overrated, please tell me you are having a laugh ! maybe, if you had taken the time to watch more than a couple of hours flying you would have a different view.yes it would have been nice to see all the items that did not fly especially after watching them practice over the last few days but trying to fit 8 hours flying in to around 5 was always going to be a compromise,and yes believe it or not they do have a flying program of more than 3 hours !
As for the other comments mainly from people who dont even go in, regarding the air tattoo being on its last legs,or it is not this or not that,I just think you need to get a grip, I,m sure it must make all the effort by so many people feel so worth while when they read comments like these, especially from those who just find any excuse to complain!
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mtpg1

Re: Thoughts on the show.

Postby speedbird2639 on Sat 16 Jul 2011, 9:30 pm

It really was a poor effort today - Ok the weather was beyond their control but it had been forecast for abt a week so they shd have made some sort of contingency for such an eventuality.

Arrived in Red route car park @0715 - traffic clear

No usual 500m queue waiting to get in - promising.

Walk across airfield to security - wait for ages in an unmoving queue - finally get thru security by which time they have thrown the towel in completely saying they are doing 'random checks only' which in practicie means they are no longer checking anyone at all as everyone it getting irritable re: standing the rain.

Have ticket checked - walk out onto airfield - oh no I dont! - I have to go theu some stupid turnstile first (why? I cld more easily step over the rope? What a pointless exercise)

Find place by the prawn sandwich bridgades chalets and pitched my (now soaking wet thru) tent - sit and wait - listen to inane 'DJ' on RIAT FM

1000hrs - announce there will be no flying to prob' 1200hrs due to rain and low cloud :mad:

With an 800' cloud base some of the fast jets decide they cant be bothered with a 'flat' show so taxi up and down the runway

Agree with earlier poster - rock concert was way too loud - I had to listen tio commentary on radio as I cldnt hear the nearest speaker.

Once the weather cleared the show was Ok - but given that they had so much from the morning the cld have tried to squeeze in the clunky slow joints between the items were more like they were trying to fill time not squeeze more in

The Flybe plane was definitely an advert - wonder how much RIAT received for that?


RIAT has been ruined by the insistance on taking it downmarket and making it marketable to the X Factor audience - there are plenty of airshows-lite for people who want to have a family day out - market RIAT towards the aircraft enthuiast - there are enough of them to make it a success.

I think the rule has to be - dont attend RIAT when the nations that normally attend are tied up in dubious overseas situations - nothing interesting will fly or even be on static - I will wait to see what this new ticketing idea is they plan to unveil - but to be honest I probably wont bother again - if the weather is forecast to be ok next year I might 'freeload' in the 'naughty' farms - and that from someone who has only missed the shows which were at Cottesmore in all of the last 20 yrs
speedbird2639

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