A wishlist for 2012.....

A wishlist for 2012.....

Postby Unknown74 on Sun 11 Sep 2011, 3:51 pm

Go on there's got to be one.

Right as I was passing through Dundee yesterday on the Train North I suddenly started thinking of a wishlist for Leuchars 2012.....

1) A selection of Typhoons from different Eurofighter user Nations including RAF's 6 Squadron (of course).
2) USAF B-1B and/or B-52.
3) Italian Air Force Frecce Tricolore
4) German Navy Sea King (if they're still in Service)
5) Any German Air Force Fast Jet.

The list could go on.
Unknown74

Re: A wishlist for 2012.....

Postby Ryand19 on Sun 11 Sep 2011, 5:09 pm

Unknown74 wrote:Go on there's got to be one.

Right as I was passing through Dundee yesterday on the Train North I suddenly started thinking of a wishlist for Leuchars 2012.....

1) A selection of Typhoons from different Eurofighter user Nations including RAF's 6 Squadron (of course).
2) USAF B-1B and/or B-52.
3) Italian Air Force Frecce Tricolore
4) German Navy Sea King (if they're still in Service)
5) Any German Air Force Fast Jet.

The list could go on.


A few Americans in the flying display and better weather and I'll be happy :smile:
You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one
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Ryand19

Re: A wishlist for 2012.....

Postby scotthldr on Sun 11 Sep 2011, 5:58 pm

The list could stop there and it would be a vast improvement over 2011.

Seriously though from an enthusiasts point of view they need to get their heads together if there is going to be another and save some face.

The Polish have strong links with Fife from WWII, so why not invite them en masse. Mig29, SU22, F16, Mi24, Team Orik.

Or a good selection of fast jets from around Europe with some exotics like Greek F4's/A7's, Spanish AV8's/F5's, Italian AMX's/AV8's.
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Re: A wishlist for 2012.....

Postby Trevster on Sun 11 Sep 2011, 7:31 pm

- US fast & noisy bugger flying
- More varied MILITARY static
- Better weather...
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Re: A wishlist for 2012.....

Postby jonb on Sun 11 Sep 2011, 7:58 pm

My wish list

A leuchars airshow... :whistle:
jonb

Re: A wishlist for 2012.....

Postby ArabJazzie on Sun 11 Sep 2011, 8:01 pm

scotthldr wrote:The list could stop there and it would be a vast improvement over 2011.

Seriously though from an enthusiasts point of view they need to get their heads together if there is going to be another and save some face.

The Polish have strong links with Fife from WWII, so why not invite them en masse. Mig29, SU22, F16, Mi24, Team Orik.

Or a good selection of fast jets from around Europe with some exotics like Greek F4's/A7's, Spanish AV8's/F5's, Italian AMX's/AV8's.


Having complained in the past regarding the dwindling static, and would probably have complained regarding the lack of flying participation if i had paid 25 quid this year, i have also become very aware of the times we live in.

Sadly its been pointed out many a time in the past that all the entusiasts could stop going and it wouldnt make a dent in the profit that the show has to make to donate to the Benevolent Fund. They might loose a few traders who are there for the entusiasts but im sure more of the jumble sale would replace them.

The Polish links are stronger than ever for some reason but i would doubt the airshow team would use that as part of their marketing for the show. On the subject of invites, it would be interesting to find out how many invites were sent out.

Having watched your models progress over the years, i understand where you are coming from with your wish list but in the reality of today and the foreseeable future, i would think there would be another Greek riot if they sent aircraft to the opposite corner of NATO, i dont think Spain are doing that well financially either and Silvio is in the courts just now with his countries finances next in line for a saviour.

So having wrote all of that, i would love to see the Polish, Greek, Spanish and Italian stuff. Add in some US Army assets from Europe, a closer look at a USMC KC-130J, preferably with bite, something from the Singapore training unit in France(is it A-4s or F-16s there??), all Typhoon operators including Saudi, Algerian Merlin or Lynx and i think the chance is soon to go, a German Phantom.

Now sing along to any song that mentions Dream in it!!!
Arabest,
Geoff.
Ps, Sick of seeing the B-52 on the ground, wanna see it fly along with a B-1B right after.
20 years since The Final Hurdle! Can we do it again?
ArabJazzie

Re: A wishlist for 2012.....

Postby stratocaster on Sun 11 Sep 2011, 8:43 pm

GR4 role demo again! USAF,,,,,get some of your kites in the air,especially the noisy ones! Vulcan again,,can never tire of it..more Typhoons,Hunters,BoBMF with Lancaster..Yes,B2 stealth bomber,would love to see that and an F-22.
Better weather
Kids put in a huge playpen out the road of enthusiastic keen photographers/video filmers,knocking into a tripod whilst filming is bloody annoying! Better still,parents keep better control of their brats! (I did notice a handful who got the idea of a family day out :clap: )
No awful music to the displays!
Who needs a guarantee?!! They're cheap enough to replace if they break anyway!!!
stratocaster

Re: A wishlist for 2012.....

Postby vandal on Sun 11 Sep 2011, 8:53 pm

If there is to be a show next year and (if) it's to be the last, then it would'nt be entirely unreasonable to invite any and every nation that has had links with Leuchars over the years.
vandal

Re: A wishlist for 2012.....

Postby scotthldr on Sun 11 Sep 2011, 9:03 pm

ArabJazzie wrote:Having complained in the past regarding the dwindling static, and would probably have complained regarding the lack of flying participation if i had paid 25 quid this year, i have also become very aware of the times we live in.



You don't really believe in that old tosh do you? If times are really so bad then why do airshows over in Europe attract a decent mix of participants including RAF aircraft, yet the RAF's own BoB show can't attract nothing but r/c models.

ArabJazzie wrote:Sadly its been pointed out many a time in the past that all the entusiasts could stop going and it wouldnt make a dent in the profit that the show has to make to donate to the Benevolent Fund. They might loose a few traders who are there for the entusiasts but im sure more of the jumble sale would replace them.


True, but if all the enthusiasts stopped going to and paying over £100 for the "Enthusiasts day" then they may just wake up and take note. However with one show remaining it is unlikely to have any effect.


ArabJazzie wrote:The Polish links are stronger than ever for some reason but i would doubt the airshow team would use that as part of their marketing for the show. On the subject of invites, it would be interesting to find out how many invites were sent out.


After the last couple of years the airshow team should use any available methods to attract a decent turnout, the fact that they aren't shows just how blinkered they are. I too would be interested in how many and to whom the invites where sent.
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Re: A wishlist for 2012.....

Postby Paludrinclub on Sun 11 Sep 2011, 9:16 pm

Well there is going to be an airshow for the next three years and hope there is going to be better static aircraft and flying display.
Paludrinclub

Re: A wishlist for 2012.....

Postby FourthofJuly on Sun 11 Sep 2011, 9:22 pm

Leuchars needs to walk before it can run I'm afraid to say. No point in all these fanciful wishlists which are beyond the reach of most European airshows; let's stick to the basics. A decent level of RAF participation would be good for a kick-off. The Scottish public would be forgiven for thinking the RAF possesses only training aircraft and helicopters looking at this year's line-up. Where was the Sentry, VC-10, C-17, Hercules, Sentinel, Tristar? Yes, they are stretched, but its an excuse which is all too commonly used. Why wasn't there a Tutor, Chinook or King Air in the flying display at Leuchars this year? Small fry perhaps, but as an RAF show and the only one north of the border, Leuchars should have had all three of these RAF displays. The Army is moving into Leuchars when the RAF leaves - why was there no Army Air Corps participation this year? Where was the Royal Navy, apart from a Gannet Sea King which sat a considerable away from the crowdline on the grass this year? When was the last time there was anything from Boscombe Down at a Leuchars show? RIAT and Waddington seem to attract them, why not Leuchars?
FourthofJuly

Re: A wishlist for 2012.....

Postby scotthldr on Sun 11 Sep 2011, 9:58 pm

FourthofJuly wrote:Leuchars needs to walk before it can run I'm afraid to say. No point in all these fanciful wishlists which are beyond the reach of most European airshows; let's stick to the basics.



May I ask how old you are?

Leuchars has been up and running and to a certain extent(with the exception of IAT) lead the race regards airshows in the UK for many moons, up until 5-6 years ago where it seems it is now on tired legs.

Leuchars attracted the best of the best on the European airshow circuit with types like F14's, Viggens, Drakens, SU27's, SU24's, AMX's, B52's, B1's, A7's, F104's and that's just scratching the surface. Ok alot of these a/c have now gone but they have been replaced by other types just as good. So your statement of "needing to walk before it can run " couldn't be further from the truth.
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Re: A wishlist for 2012.....

Postby ArabJazzie on Sun 11 Sep 2011, 10:14 pm

scotthldr wrote:
ArabJazzie wrote:Having complained in the past regarding the dwindling static, and would probably have complained regarding the lack of flying participation if i had paid 25 quid this year, i have also become very aware of the times we live in.


You don't really believe in that old tosh do you? If times are really so bad then why do airshows over in Europe attract a decent mix of participants including RAF aircraft, yet the RAF's own BoB show can't attract nothing but r/c models.


Thunder me old mucker,
Whats so old about the times we live in? After what happened to me last month, i know how some governments feel just now. My austerity measures mean i made it by 30 quid without having to do a Greece for the second month in a row! So yes i do believe in that old tosh and i also believe that the moat around us provides a barrier. For all the well attended shows in Europe, how far did the participants have to travel? Costs all add up, especially the price of fuel just now! Do you know how much it cost to run a Galaxy these day? (Ford btw!)

scotthldr wrote:
ArabJazzie wrote:Sadly its been pointed out many a time in the past that all the entusiasts could stop going and it wouldnt make a dent in the profit that the show has to make to donate to the Benevolent Fund. They might loose a few traders who are there for the entusiasts but im sure more of the jumble sale would replace them.


True, but if all the enthusiasts stopped going to and paying over £100 for the "Enthusiasts day" then they may just wake up and take note. However with one show remaining it is unlikely to have any effect.

So you missed the bit about 3 shows to go then? I will believe it when i see it though! You also miss the fact that if the "enthusiasts package" didnt exist, there is also no need to spend money providing the facilities and staff and it could be replaced by something else for the wider public, hence more profit towards the objective.

scotthldr wrote:
ArabJazzie wrote:The Polish links are stronger than ever for some reason but i would doubt the airshow team would use that as part of their marketing for the show. On the subject of invites, it would be interesting to find out how many invites were sent out.


After the last couple of years the airshow team should use any available methods to attract a decent turnout, the fact that they aren't shows just how blinkered they are. I too would be interested in how many and to whom the invites where sent.


Thing is though, they still have a decent crowd pull due to all the stuff we dont go for therefore they still send their profit to the Benevolent Fund. It has been pointed out on several occasions over recent years that the buck stops at, well the buck. You can have less static, the same flying programme, less of us and as long as joe public turns up, the show team will still make their objective and make money.
Arabest,
Geoff.
20 years since The Final Hurdle! Can we do it again?
ArabJazzie

Re: A wishlist for 2012.....

Postby FourthofJuly on Sun 11 Sep 2011, 10:17 pm

scotthldr wrote:
FourthofJuly wrote:Leuchars needs to walk before it can run I'm afraid to say. No point in all these fanciful wishlists which are beyond the reach of most European airshows; let's stick to the basics.



May I ask how old you are?

Leuchars has been up and running and to a certain extent(with the exception of IAT) lead the race regards airshows in the UK for many moons, up until 5-6 years ago where it seems it is now on tired legs.

Leuchars attracted the best of the best on the European airshow circuit with types like F14's, Viggens, Drakens, SU27's, SU24's, AMX's, B52's, B1's, A7's, F104's and that's just scratching the surface. Ok alot of these a/c have now gone but they have been replaced by other types just as good. So your statement of "needing to walk before it can run " couldn't be further from the truth.


If you'd read any of my first post on this forum you'd have discovered that I've been attending Leuchars Airshow since the mid 1980s, so I'm well aware of what Leuchars has attracted in the past. You hit the nail on the head when you said that it "is now on tired legs", hence my opening comment. The question needs to be asked is why Leuchars has reached rock bottom, especially over the last two years?
FourthofJuly

Re: A wishlist for 2012.....

Postby scotthldr on Sun 11 Sep 2011, 10:27 pm

ArabJazzie wrote:Thing is though, they still have a decent crowd pull due to all the stuff we dont go for therefore they still send their profit to the Benevolent Fund. It has been pointed out on several occasions over recent years that the buck stops at, well the buck. You can have less static, the same flying programme, less of us and as long as joe public turns up, the show team will still make their objective and make money.
Arabest,
Geoff.



Correct and at the end of the day the organisers will say it was the best show yet(but really was it ?)

However since this is an enthusiasts website I'm looking at it from an enthusiasts point of view, and that is Leuchars lost it's flair a few years back and not yesterday. They seems to have adopted the attitude of the moment of "lets just do enough to get by and nothing else".
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Re: A wishlist for 2012.....

Postby scotthldr on Sun 11 Sep 2011, 10:34 pm

FourthofJuly wrote:If you'd read any of my first post on this forum you'd have discovered that I've been attending Leuchars Airshow since the mid 1980s, so I'm well aware of what Leuchars has attracted in the past.


In all fairness you didn't post in this thread so I haven't seen any of you other posts


FourthofJuly wrote:You hit the nail on the head when you said that it "is now on tired legs", hence my opening comment. The question needs to be asked is why Leuchars has reached rock bottom, especially over the last two years?



See my last post above
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scotthldr

Re: A wishlist for 2012.....

Postby FourthofJuly on Sun 11 Sep 2011, 10:37 pm

scotthldr wrote:They seems to have adopted the attitude of the moment of "lets just do enough to get by and nothing else".


True. That's why the flying display didn't start until midday and there were vast areas of empty tarmac which should have been filled with aircraft.
FourthofJuly

Re: A wishlist for 2012.....

Postby scotthldr on Sun 11 Sep 2011, 10:38 pm

I don't know if the airshow office lost a lot of experienced staff in a short while, but something went missing over night a couple of years back.

Unfortunately there is an all too common attitude throughout the armed forces nowadays, where a large percentage of personnel treat it like a Monday to Friday 8am to 4pm job and any deployments/extra duties are seen as a PIA.
Last edited by scotthldr on Mon 12 Sep 2011, 3:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: A wishlist for 2012.....

Postby ArabJazzie on Sun 11 Sep 2011, 10:57 pm

scotthldr wrote:
ArabJazzie wrote:Thing is though, they still have a decent crowd pull due to all the stuff we dont go for therefore they still send their profit to the Benevolent Fund. It has been pointed out on several occasions over recent years that the buck stops at, well the buck. You can have less static, the same flying programme, less of us and as long as joe public turns up, the show team will still make their objective and make money.
Arabest,
Geoff.



Correct and at the end of the day the organisers will say it was the best show yet(but really was it ?)

However since this is an enthusiasts website I'm looking at it from an enthusiasts point of view, and that is Leuchars lost it's flair a few years back and not yesterday. They seems to have adopted the attitude of the moment of "lets just do enough to get by and nothing else".


Fair point but we are talking about something that has not been, if ever aimed at us enthusiasts. As much as i hate writing all i have today, the bottom dollar is that the show office have to make money and are not interested in us havin a greet about the lack of aircraft to look at. They certainly dont do just enough to get by as they do a good job of reaching their objective.

I would love to see the days of walking almost the full length of the north taxiway to get to what i considered the star to find another couple of stars further up. But there are more aircraft due out of service soon and more countries really struggling and i dont see things changing for us any time soon. Didnt Greece not just dispand an F-16 squadron in the last few weeks?
Arabest,
Geoff.
PS, Im 40 btw sweetie!
20 years since The Final Hurdle! Can we do it again?
ArabJazzie

Re: A wishlist for 2012.....

Postby flatfoot471 on Sun 11 Sep 2011, 11:17 pm

A better show next year from RAF - Why can Leuchars not get a Tristar or a VC10 seeing as they're not going to be around for much longer. How about a Voyager, Herc, C17, Sentinel or Sentry.
Please, can we have American F15 doing what they were designed for............. flying!! They usually attend the event, are among the first to arrive and last to depart taking good advantage of Leuchars hospitality. Can they not return some good favour and give us a wee blast or two over the airfield. There was a massive gap in the morning flying routines, as in there was none, so could they not have grabbed the keys for an F15 and thrown it up for 5or 10 mins. Doesn't have to be a display pilot, just beat up the runway, do a couple of T&G and a bombing run?
A German Phanton would be nice
Are the 111 Lightning and 43 Phantom still on the base?. Could they be dragged round to make up some numbers in the static?
B52 flying
B1, U2, A10 - any would be welcome.
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flatfoot471

Re: A wishlist for 2012.....

Postby Unknown74 on Mon 12 Sep 2011, 2:52 am

flatfoot471, regarding the USAF F-15 I find it odd hearing that Duxford - a museum - can get an F-15 for it's Flying Display and Leuchars which is still an RAF Base (for now anyway) cannot.
Unknown74

Re: A wishlist for 2012.....

Postby ranger703 on Mon 12 Sep 2011, 3:47 am

flatfoot471 wrote:A better show next year from RAF - Why can Leuchars not get a Tristar or a VC10 seeing as they're not going to be around for much longer. How about a Voyager, Herc, C17, Sentinel or Sentry.
Please, can we have American F15 doing what they were designed for............. flying!! They usually attend the event, are among the first to arrive and last to depart taking good advantage of Leuchars hospitality. Can they not return some good favour and give us a wee blast or two over the airfield. There was a massive gap in the morning flying routines, as in there was none, so could they not have grabbed the keys for an F15 and thrown it up for 5or 10 mins. Doesn't have to be a display pilot, just beat up the runway, do a couple of T&G and a bombing run?
A German Phanton would be nice
Are the 111 Lightning and 43 Phantom still on the base?. Could they be dragged round to make up some numbers in the static?
B52 flying
B1, U2, A10 - any would be welcome.


Apologies if I seem a little crass in my reply but your naievity astounds me.

Tristar-all the serviceable ones are currently supporting the daily airbridge between the UK and Afghanistan.
VC10-the few we have left are supporting operations in Libya.
Voyager-not yet in RAF service.
Hercules-supporting operations allover the world.
C17-supporting operations in Libya and Afghanistan.
Sentinel and Sentry-supporting operations in Libya.

If you want to see an F15 flying go to Lakenheath or one of the east coast Air Weapons Ranges. Duxford has a longer history than even Leuchars with the USAF and they fortunately were able to get the demo team over to conduct the display. Unfortunately even a few wee blasts or two over the airfield requires display approval and authorisation and the demo team were busy elsewhere.

Yes,this years Airshow was pretty poor with regards to numbers of aircraft and rarities but as has been said on many occasions previously it is unfortunately a sign of the times and from what pictures I have seen and reports I have read the organisers did as good a job as they possibly could under the circumstances, many of which will unfortunately not come to light on public forums.

Leuchars has suffered some major changes in the past 12 months and for the personnel to bounce back from the unfortunate news of their base closing and host a airshow at all deserves some credit.
ranger703

Re: A wishlist for 2012.....

Postby ranger703 on Mon 12 Sep 2011, 3:55 am

scotthldr wrote:Unfortunately it's the same throughout the armed forces nowadays, where they see it as a Monday to Friday 8am to 4pm job and any deployments/extra duties are seen as a PIA



Sorry Scott, but not only do I disagree with that comment but I also find it very insulting!

I certainly didn't find my 6months in Bosnia, my 220 days in Afghanistan nor the numerous exercises I support each year a pain in the ass! I'm damn sure a lot of us can only dream of Mon-Fri 8-4!
ranger703

Re: A wishlist for 2012.....

Postby McG on Mon 12 Sep 2011, 6:55 am

58 Squadron RAF Regiment, and their parent unit 6 Force Protection Wing, both based @ RAF Leuchars are currently deployed to Afghanistan. Their primary tasking being to secure and protect the base at Camp Bastion.

In addition to Libya ops, the VC-10's of the Brize Classic Flight are also deployed supporting operations in Afghanistan & the Falklands. In addition they also have a QRA role to support Typhoon QRA ops in the UK.

There are 2 USAF F-15E Demo teams, and they perform a limited number of overseas shows each year. Their primary role is to showcase the jet to the American taxpayer. To get an F-15 demo, you need to apply to ACC & if there are no scheduled shows in the US for the crew that weekend, then you may be in with a slim, slim chance.
McG

Re: A wishlist for 2012.....

Postby scotthldr on Mon 12 Sep 2011, 3:26 pm

ranger703 wrote:
scotthldr wrote:Unfortunately it's the same throughout the armed forces nowadays, where they see it as a Monday to Friday 8am to 4pm job and any deployments/extra duties are seen as a PIA



Sorry Scott, but not only do I disagree with that comment but I also find it very insulting!

I certainly didn't find my 6months in Bosnia, my 220 days in Afghanistan nor the numerous exercises I support each year a pain in the ass! I'm damn sure a lot of us can only dream of Mon-Fri 8-4!


I'm sorry if I've insulted you Andy, but having worked along side the forces for an 18 year period(up until 2007) and still having friends and family within the forces, I have seen and still do see that attitude. My statement was written in a rush, as I was in the process of getting ready for work and as a result I have tarred every serviceman/women with the same brush. I have now edited the statement to be more accurate.
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